If you’ve ever felt dismissed, talked over, or unsure how to handle tense conversations without losing yourself, this episode is for you.

More info, ways to connect & resources: https://www.tacosfallapart.com/podcast-live-show/podcast-guests/mark-oconnell

In this episode of Even Tacos Fall Apart, MommaFoxFire sits down with Mark O’Connell, a psychotherapist based in NYC with a background in acting. The conversation centers around how we can communicate with people whose perspectives feel combative or totally different from our own, and why it’s important that each of us takes up space and feels seen - even when things get tense.

Mark opens up about how his acting experience shaped the way he practices therapy today. He doesn’t view acting as pretending but as truth-telling. That mindset carries into the therapy room, where he works to understand his clients deeply, noticing not just their words but the energy behind them. He says therapy, much like acting, is about being fully present, responsive and curious in the moment.

One of the biggest takeaways from the conversation is the idea of mutual recognition. Mark explains that it’s less about changing someone’s mind or winning an argument and more about seeing and being seen. Especially during high-stakes conversations, like the ones we often have with family during the holidays, it’s not helpful to go in expecting agreement. What helps more is showing up with vulnerability, stating your truth clearly and being curious about the other person’s experience. That’s where real connection starts.

Mark also addresses how exhausting it can be to try to talk across drastically different realities - like when two people don’t even agree on what’s true. He suggests setting boundaries where needed and giving yourself permission to disengage if the conversation feels unsafe. But he encourages people not to lose hope. Even when it feels impossible to reach someone, keeping the possibility of mutual understanding alive can be powerful.

They also talk about what it means to “take up space.” For some people, that might mean speaking up more. For others, especially those who are already vocal, it might mean sharing vulnerability or emotion - things they usually keep hidden. Mark encourages listeners to notice their own patterns and stretch in whatever way helps them feel more whole.

Throughout the episode, there’s also a very real, very human tone. They talk about the mental load of parenting, the impact of toddlers on your brain, and how hard it is to balance emotional labor with daily life. Mark mentions how hard it can be to get therapy covered by insurance and stresses that good therapy should be more accessible.

The conversation wraps with a wish to throw out the idea that mental health is something you either “have” or don’t. Mark wants people to understand that mental health exists on a spectrum, and we’re all navigating it. He encourages folks to stop boxing themselves in with labels and instead think about how to stay present, be curious and make room for their full selves.

Whether you're headed into a hard conversation, feeling unseen, or just trying to be better understood, this episode is a thoughtful, grounded reminder that communication is more about connection than agreement!