DiscoverAnimal Spirits PodcastTalk Your Book: After-Tax Alpha
Talk Your Book: After-Tax Alpha

Talk Your Book: After-Tax Alpha

Update: 2026-03-16
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Digest

This podcast delves into sophisticated investment strategies, primarily direct indexing and long/short portfolios, designed to enhance tax efficiency for wealthy investors. It explains how these methods, particularly long/short strategies with leverage, can generate substantial tax losses to offset capital gains, deferring taxes rather than eliminating them. The discussion features Erko Atula of Brooklyn Investment Group, who details their tech-powered approach to implementing these complex solutions, highlighting their evolution, use cases, and the crucial role of technology in managing risk and scalability. The conversation also touches upon the importance of economic substance beyond tax benefits and the potential risks associated with leverage and crowded trades, ultimately emphasizing these strategies as powerful tools for tax deferral and wealth management when implemented thoughtfully.

Outlines

00:00:00
Introduction and Advanced Investment Strategies

The podcast begins with a sponsor message from Brooklyn Investment Group, powered by Nuvine, introducing advanced investment strategies like direct indexing and long/short portfolios. These strategies are discussed in the context of providing sophisticated financial solutions and tax advantages, particularly for individuals with substantial wealth.

00:00:45
Direct Indexing, Long/Short Portfolios, and Leverage

The discussion explores direct indexing as a method to own individual securities for customization and tax-loss harvesting. It then introduces long/short portfolios, including 130/30 structures, and the role of leverage in amplifying loss harvesting opportunities to offset significant capital gains, clarifying that these strategies primarily defer taxes.

00:02:57
Brooklyn Investment Group: Implementing Long/Short Strategies

Erko Atula, CEO of Brooklyn Investment Group, joins the podcast to discuss their firm's founding, tech-powered approach, and acquisition by Nuvine. He details the evolution of long/short strategies, their integration into retail SMAs, and how they help advisors implement these complex, tax-advantaged solutions.

00:08:39
Key Use Cases and Technological Implementation

The primary use cases for long/short strategies are outlined: offsetting gains from liquidation events, tax-neutral diversification of concentrated stock, and portfolio migration. The conversation emphasizes the technological challenges and solutions in implementing these strategies at scale, focusing on daily risk and tax management.

00:15:53
Quantifying Tax Alpha and Managing Risks

The podcast delves into quantifying the tax benefits and potential losses from long/short strategies, comparing 130/30 portfolios to traditional direct indexing. It explores the spectrum of leverage, associated risks like increased tracking error, and the importance of economic substance and uncorrelated stock selection for alpha generation. The discussion concludes by reiterating the tax deferral nature of these strategies and the process of deleveraging.

Keywords

Direct Indexing


A strategy involving ownership of individual securities within an index for customization and tax-loss harvesting.

Tax-Loss Harvesting


Selling investments at a loss to offset capital gains and reduce tax liability, often applied at the individual stock level in direct indexing.

Long/Short Strategy


An investment approach holding both long and short positions to generate alpha, hedge risk, and enhance tax-loss harvesting.

130/30 Portfolio


A specific long/short strategy with 130% long and 30% short positions, designed to increase tax-loss harvesting potential.

Leverage


Using borrowed funds to amplify investment returns, which also increases potential losses and enhances tax-loss harvesting capacity.

Tax Alpha


Additional returns generated through tax management strategies, such as tax-loss harvesting, improving after-tax performance.

SMA (Separately Managed Account)


Individually managed investment accounts offering customization and advanced tax management capabilities.

Brooklyn Investment Group


An asset manager specializing in tech-driven direct indexing and long/short strategies for advisors.

Nuvine


The financial services company powering Brooklyn Investment Group's advanced investment solutions.

Tax Deferral


Postponing tax liabilities to a future date, a primary goal of strategies like tax-loss harvesting, rather than immediate tax elimination.

Q&A

  • What is direct indexing and how does it relate to long/short strategies?

    Direct indexing involves holding individual securities of an index for customization and tax-loss harvesting. This forms the foundation for long/short strategies, which add short positions to further enhance tax-loss harvesting and potentially generate alpha.

  • How does leverage enhance tax-loss harvesting in long/short strategies?

    Leverage allows for larger long and short positions, increasing the number of securities traded and thus creating more opportunities to realize losses from underperforming assets to offset capital gains.

  • What are the main applications for tax-advantaged long/short strategies?

    Key uses include offsetting large capital gains (e.g., from selling a business), tax-neutral diversification of concentrated stock holdings, and facilitating client portfolio migrations.

  • What are the primary risks associated with highly leveraged long/short strategies?

    Increased leverage leads to higher tracking error relative to benchmarks, meaning greater potential for both outperformance and underperformance, including significant drawdowns.

  • Do long/short strategies aim to eliminate taxes?

    No, their primary goal is tax deferral. Taxes are postponed by harvesting losses, and gains eventually become taxable unless specific events like a step-up in basis occur.

  • How does Brooklyn Investment Group support advisors in using these strategies?

    They provide the technology platform and expertise for managing these strategies at scale, ensuring advisors understand the complexities, risks, and benefits, and helping manage client expectations.

  • What is the difference in realized losses between long-only direct indexing and a 130/30 strategy?

    A long-only direct indexing strategy might yield about 10% in realized losses annually, whereas a 130/30 strategy can generate significantly more, potentially around 25% on average in the first year.

  • Can advisors integrate their own investment models with Brooklyn Investment Group's platform?

    Yes, advisors can use their own models for core portfolio allocation (beta). For stock selection in the long/short extensions, they can also utilize their own signals, provided they have a broad view of the stock universe.

Show Notes

On this episode of Animal Spirits: Talk Your Book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Batnick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ben Carlson⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are joined by Erkko Etula, CEO and Chief Investment Officer of Brooklyn Investment Group, to discuss tax advantaged long/short SMAs.




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Ben Carlson’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠A Wealth of Common Sense⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


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Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. See our disclosures here:


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Talk Your Book: After-Tax Alpha

Talk Your Book: After-Tax Alpha

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