The Devil's Advocate (1997) with Sarah Marshall
Digest
This podcast episode features a deep dive into the 1997 film "The Devil's Advocate," analyzing its plot, characters, and thematic elements through the lens of the Bechdel Cast's feminist critique. The hosts, joined by guest Sarah Marshall, discuss the film's exploration of free will, vanity, and the nature of evil, embodied by Al Pacino's character, John Milton. They examine Keanu Reeves' performance, the film's campy tone, and its engagement with 90s cultural anxieties, including the Satanic Panic and the portrayal of women. The discussion also touches on the film's problematic use of sexual assault as a plot device, its racial stereotypes, and its ultimate message about accountability. Comparisons are drawn to other films and cultural phenomena, and the episode concludes with a nuanced feminist evaluation using the Bechdel Cast Nipple Scale, ultimately deeming the film a product of its time with limited lasting impact.
Outlines
Introduction, Sponsorships, and Bechdel Cast Introduction
The podcast opens with sponsorships from Amazon Autos, Postmates, Albertsons/Vons/Pavilions, and Splatero. The hosts introduce "The Bechdel Cast," a show that analyzes films through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test, and begin discussing "The Devil's Advocate."
Guest Introduction and "The Devil You Know" Podcast
Sarah Marshall, host of "You're Wrong About" and "The Devil You Know," joins the discussion. She talks about her new podcast focusing on the Satanic Panic and its contemporary relevance.
"The Devil's Advocate" - Initial Impressions and Creative Team
The hosts and guest begin their analysis of "The Devil's Advocate" (1997), directed by Taylor Hackford and written by Tony Gilroy, sharing initial thoughts on its themes.
Personal Connections and Title Interpretation
Participants share personal histories with the film, including its television airings and initial confusion with similar titles. The literal meaning of "The Devil's Advocate" and its tonal similarities to "Rosemary's Baby" sequel are explored.
Bechdel Cast Analysis vs. Film Enjoyment
Despite "The Devil's Advocate" performing poorly by the Bechdel Cast's criteria, the hosts admit to enjoying the film, noting Jeffrey Jones's presence and the movie's overall "fuck ass" quality.
"The Devil's Advocate" - Gender Messaging and Al Pacino's Performance
The film's lack of pro-women messaging is discussed, alongside Al Pacino's intense yet seemingly uninvested performance.
Behind-the-Scenes and Keanu Reeves' Role
Bizarre behind-the-scenes stories emerge, including Keanu Reeves' decision to take the role over "Speed 2" and his character's accent.
Keanu Reeves' Performance and Character Name
Keanu Reeves' performance is deemed "pretty good" but also noted as a frequent miscasting. His character's name, Kevin, is found to be humorous.
90s Media Trends and Genre Blending
The discussion examines how "The Devil's Advocate" incorporates 90s trends like erotic thrillers and legal dramas, with references to Roger Ebert's review and comparisons to "Constantine."
"TNT Coded" Feel and Legal Thriller Context
The film's "TNT coded" aesthetic is discussed, linking it to TNT's typical programming. The context of 90s legal thrillers is explored, placing "The Devil's Advocate" within this popular genre.
Over-the-Top Performances and Campiness
The exaggerated performances in "The Devil's Advocate" are highlighted, contributing to the film's campy nature despite its serious themes.
Accent Issues and Performance Critiques
Al Pacino's inconsistent accent and Keanu Reeves' struggles with their accents are revisited, alongside critiques of their performances.
Keanu Reeves' Accent and "Dracula" Comparison
Keanu Reeves' accent inconsistencies are further discussed, with a comparison made to his role in "Bram Stoker's Dracula."
Mid-Podcast Break and Sponsorships
The podcast takes a break for advertisements, including Amazon Autos, Helix Sleep/Sit and Sleep, and Postmates.
Albertsons/Vons/Pavilions Beauty Event Promotion
A promotion for the annual beauty event at Albertsons, Vons, and Pavilions is announced, offering savings on select beauty products.
Plot Summary and Introduction of John Milton
A trigger warning is issued before summarizing the plot of "The Devil's Advocate," starting with Kevin Lomax's defense of a teacher and his move to a New York law firm. The character John Milton, played by Al Pacino, is introduced, with discussion of literary allusions.
Kevin's Role and Minion Logic
Kevin's role is compared to "Minion logic," serving the most evil master, and his inconsistent accent is noted.
Cristabella Andrioli and Professional Women in Film
The character Cristabella Andrioli is discussed, along with the trope of professional women in late 20th-century films being sexualized.
The Moyez Case and Religious Freedom
Kevin's defense of Philippe Moyez on religious grounds is analyzed, raising questions about race and the film's portrayal of justice.
Kevin's Success and Mary Ann's Distress
Kevin's victory in the Moyez case is highlighted, while Mary Ann experiences increasing distress and unsettling events.
John Milton's Influence on Mary Ann
At a party, John Milton critiques Mary Ann's appearance, influencing her style, while Kevin flirts with Cristabella.
Campiness and Devil Tropes
The film's campy nature is discussed, with the devil being inherently campy, and comparisons are made to "Angel Heart."
Moral of the Story and Free Will
The hosts discuss the movie's moral, interpreting it as not defending child sex abusers, and the theme of free will, explicitly stated at the end.
Milton's Penthouse and Character Dynamics
Kevin is summoned to Milton's penthouse, and the discussion touches on the apartment's design and the dynamics between Kevin, Milton, and other characters.
Alexander Cullen Case and Donald Trump Reference
Kevin takes on the Alexander Cullen case, with a reference to Donald Trump's penthouse being used as the setting, highlighting 90s political and social commentary.
Cullen's Case and Kevin's Moral Compromise
Kevin defends Alexander Cullen, accused of murder. The discussion questions Kevin's moral compass and the film's portrayal of his choices.
Marianne's Demonic Vision and Stress
Marianne witnesses a demonic transformation in her friend Jackie, leading to a breakdown and further stress, highlighting the supernatural elements affecting her.
Kevin's Reaction to Marianne's Distress
Kevin reacts poorly to Marianne's distress, dismissing her concerns and leading to further marital conflict, emphasizing his lack of empathy.
Alice's Revelation and Milton's Identity
Kevin's mother, Alice, visits and reveals that John Milton is Kevin's father, a twist added to the film's ending.
Joel Schumacher's Version and Subway Scene
The discussion touches on a potential Joel Schumacher version of the film and analyzes a scene on the subway, questioning the characters' presence there.
Milton's Omniscience and Spanish Accent
Milton displays omniscience on the subway, and Al Pacino's attempt at a Spanish accent is critiqued.
ADR and Misogynistic Dialogue
The use of ADR (Automated Dialogue Replacement) in the film is discussed, particularly misogynistic additions that reinforce negative stereotypes.
Marianne's Breakdown and Baby Vision
Marianne experiences a breakdown, seeing a demonic baby and potentially having a miscarriage, further blurring the lines between reality and hallucination.
Keanu Reeves' Performance and Miscasting
Keanu Reeves' performance is analyzed, with the hosts suggesting he is often miscast, particularly in the 90s, despite his commitment to roles.
Al Pacino's Reluctance and Role Acceptance
Al Pacino's initial reluctance to take the role due to its perceived triteness is discussed, along with his eventual acceptance.
Kevin's Test and Milton's Intervention
Milton considers removing Kevin from the Cullen case due to its toll on his marriage, but Kevin insists on continuing, viewing it as a test.
Kevin's Failure and Free Will Theme
Kevin fails Milton's test, and the theme of free will is explicitly stated, highlighting the film's intended message.
Eddie Barzoon's Demise and Shady Dealings
Eddie Barzoon's death is depicted after shredding documents, implying Milton's involvement and the firm's illicit activities.
Cullen Case Victory and Marianne's Accusation
Kevin wins the Cullen case, but Marianne reveals Milton raped her, an accusation Kevin initially dismisses.
Marianne's Suicide and Kevin's Realization
Marianne commits suicide, and Kevin's mother reveals Milton is Kevin's father. Kevin eventually realizes the truth about Milton and the firm's evil.
Kevin's Character Development and Unpleasant Dialogue
The hosts critique Kevin's character development and an unpleasant line of dialogue, questioning the writing choices in the film.
"The Devil's Advocate" and "Liar Liar" Comparisons
The film is compared to "Liar Liar," with both being seen as inspired by the O.J. Simpson trial and exploring themes of legal ethics and personal relationships.
Pop Culture Perceptions of Justice
The discussion shifts to how pop culture shapes our perception of justice, with "The Devil's Advocate" offering a satirical take on legal dramas and morality.
Wolfram and Hart Comparison and 90s Legal Thrillers
The law firm in "The Devil's Advocate" is compared to Wolfram and Hart from "Angel," highlighting the trend of portraying law firms as corrupt entities in 90s media.
Justice Department Involvement and Kevin's Suspicion
A Justice Department official informs Kevin about the law firm's involvement in illegal activities, leading Kevin to suspect its demonic nature.
Marianne's Suicide and Milton's Paternity Reveal
Marianne commits suicide, and Kevin's mother reveals Milton is Kevin's father, a significant plot twist added to the film.
Sexual Assault as a Plot Device
The hosts discuss the film's frequent use of sexual assault and rape as plot devices, questioning the ethical implications and the portrayal of the devil.
Kevin's Confrontation with Milton
Kevin learns Milton is the devil and his father, leading him to confront Milton in a climactic scene.
Kevin's Confrontation with Milton and Self-Accountability
Kevin's suspicions about Milton being the devil are confirmed, leading to the revelation that Kevin's actions, including his career choices and neglect of his wife, were his own free will. Milton clarifies he only sets the stage, not compels actions.
The Introduction of Christabella and the Antichrist Plot
Christabella, Kevin's half-sister, is introduced. The plot becomes convoluted with Milton's desire for Kevin to impregnate Christabella to conceive the Antichrist, raising questions about the nature and creation of the Antichrist.
The Climax and Al Pacino's Monologue
The movie's ending is described as ham-fisted and campy, featuring Al Pacino's lengthy monologue about the devil's 20th-century behavior, which is likened to a TED talk.
Kevin's Suicide and the Aftermath
Instead of impregnating his sister, Kevin shoots himself. This causes Milton to burst into flames and Christabella to shrivel and die, leading to a discussion about the symbolic implications.
Kevin's Second Chance and Ambiguous Ending
Kevin is transported back to the beginning of the movie, seemingly getting a second chance. The ending is questioned for its ambiguity, leaning towards an "it was all a dream" scenario.
The Journalist and Vanity as a Sin
A journalist character transforms into Al Pacino, declaring vanity as his favorite sin. This is discussed in the context of the 90s perception of journalism as an "evil" profession.
Comparing Endings: Devil's Advocate and Angel Heart
The ending of Devil's Advocate is compared to Angel Heart, both involving protagonists facing consequences after dealing with the devil. The discussion touches on themes of choice, consequence, and masculinity.
Historical Context: Satanic Media and Late 90s Culture
The discussion delves into the historical context of satanic media in the late 90s, the approaching millennium, and the pre-9/11 political climate, linking it to themes of power, profit, and justification.
Satan as the American Scapegoat and Courtroom Dramas
Satan is presented as the "great American scapegoat," used to justify actions. The popularity of 90s courtroom dramas is analyzed as a rational yet emotional storytelling mode that allows for vindictiveness.
Unpacking Marianne's Character and Narrative Purpose
The ambiguity of Marianne's character is discussed, questioning whether the audience should empathize with her or view her as hysterical. Her narrative arc and the portrayal of her struggles are examined.
Marianne's Lost Career and Societal Expectations
Marianne's past career is highlighted, contrasting with her new role as a society wife. The discussion touches on the societal pressures and expectations placed upon women in the 90s.
Jackie's Role and the "Black Best Friend" Trope
Jackie's character is analyzed, initially appearing as a stereotypical "black best friend" who is also revealed to be a demon. The discussion questions the narrative choices made for her character.
Marianne's Descent and the "Consumption Demon"
Marianne's perceived descent into madness is discussed, alongside the introduction of the "consumption demon" trope. The gendered portrayal of sins like vanity and consumption is examined.
Marianne's Observations and Kevin's Gaslighting
Marianne observes sinful behavior and tries to confide in Kevin, who dismisses and gaslights her. The discussion questions whether the audience should empathize with her or see her as hysterical.
Marianne's Truthfulness and the "Virtuous Goggles"
The speakers debate whether Marianne is meant to be believed, suggesting her visions are accurate. Her character is seen as a symbol of virtue in a corrupt world.
Devil's Advocate vs. Don't Worry Darling: Female Perspectives
Devil's Advocate is compared to Don't Worry Darling, with the latter being praised for centering the female perspective, unlike Devil's Advocate, which is seen as exploiting female hysteria.
Echoes of Victorian Hysteria and Male Relationships
The movie's themes are linked to Victorian hysteria and the long-standing trope of men prioritizing relationships with "scary mentor men" over their families.
Marianne's Narrative Dependence on Kevin's Story
Despite having scenes from her point of view, Marianne's story is seen as entirely reactive to Kevin's narrative, questioning her independent existence within the film.
Victorian Femininity and Mental Deterioration
Marianne's character is analyzed through the lens of Victorian femininity, where mental illness is linked to the surrounding evil. The trope of women being weaker yet more virtuous is discussed.
The Devil as the Central Character and Portrayals of the Devil
The discussion concludes that the movie's primary focus is the devil. Various portrayals of the devil in media are shared, including comedic and horror-based interpretations.
Race Depiction and Stereotypes in the 90s
The film's portrayal of race is critiqued, highlighting the use of broad, racist stereotypes for non-white characters, with exceptions for a few underwritten characters.
Multiculturalism, Religion, and the Devil
The movie's argument about religious practices and multiculturalism is examined, questioning whether excessive tolerance can lead to embracing the devil.
Production Details and Artistic Choices
Despite thematic incoherence, the movie's execution, art design, and editing are praised. Production anecdotes, including Al Pacino's on-set behavior and digital alterations, are shared.
The OJ Simpson Case and "Evil Lawyer" Movies
The OJ Simpson trial is cited as a catalyst for the development of "evil lawyer" movies, including Devil's Advocate, which gained momentum during that period.
Pam's Character and 90s Tropes for Women in the Workplace
Pam's character is discussed as an anomaly, being a woman allowed to be good at her job without being overly sexualized, a trope attributed to her age and appearance in the 90s.
Legal Troubles and Digital Alterations in Production
A lawsuit regarding a sculpture in Al Pacino's office led to digital alterations in the film. The discussion touches on the challenges and humor of post-production fixes.
"Devil's Advocate": A Lost Film with Limited Staying Power
Despite its initial success, Devil's Advocate is considered a film that has been "lost to time" with little cultural staying power or relevance for younger audiences.
The Bechtel Test and Feminist Analysis
The film's passing of the Bechtel test is discussed, but it's argued that this doesn't automatically make it a feminist movie. The Bechtel Cast Nipple Scale is introduced for a more nuanced feminist critique.
Bechtel Cast Nipple Scale: A Feminist Metric
The Bechtel Cast Nipple Scale is presented as a metric for evaluating films through an intersectional feminist lens, with Devil's Advocate receiving a low rating due to its treatment of gender roles.
The Devil's Influence on Marianne's Mental State
The discussion explores the idea that Marianne's mental deterioration is a direct result of the evil surrounding her, linking it to Victorian notions of female hysteria and virtue.
Host Recommendations and Upcoming Projects
The hosts discuss their upcoming projects, including a mini-series titled "The Devil" and an episode on "bimbos," highlighting their areas of expertise and passion.
Podcast Production and Credits
The episode concludes with acknowledgments of the podcast's production team, hosts, and contributors, along with information on how to follow and support the show.
Podcast Information and Call to Action
Details about the podcast's distribution, social media presence, and Patreon are provided, encouraging listeners to engage further and support the show.
Keywords
The Devil's Advocate
A 1997 supernatural legal thriller film directed by Taylor Hackford, starring Keanu Reeves, Al Pacino, and Charlize Theron. It follows a young lawyer who goes to work for a powerful firm run by the devil.
Bechdel Test
A measure of the representation of women in fiction. It requires a work to have at least two women in it, who talk to each other about something besides a man.
Satanic Panic
A moral panic that occurred in the 1980s and early 1990s, fueled by fears of widespread Satanic ritual abuse.
John Milton
A character in "The Devil's Advocate," played by Al Pacino. The name is a direct allusion to the author of "Paradise Lost."
Free Will
A philosophical concept that explores whether individuals have control over their actions and decisions. In "The Devil's Advocate," it's a central theme.
Camp
An aesthetic style and sensibility characterized by exaggeration, artificiality, and theatricality.
Moral Panic
A widespread fear, often irrational, that some evil person or thing threatens the well-being of society.
Legal Thriller
A genre of fiction that combines elements of legal drama and suspenseful thrillers.
Bechtel Cast Nipple Scale
An alternative metric to the Bechtel test, the Bechtel Cast Nipple Scale offers a more nuanced feminist critique of films.
Victorian Femininity
Victorian femininity often portrayed women as weaker yet more virtuous than men. This trope is discussed in relation to Marianne's character in "The Devil's Advocate."
Q&A
What is the Bechdel Test and how does it relate to "The Devil's Advocate"?
The Bechdel Test is a measure of female representation in fiction, requiring at least two women to discuss something other than a man. While "The Devil's Advocate" features female characters, the discussion often centers on men or supernatural forces, making its ability to pass the test debatable.
What is the "Satanic Panic" and how is it relevant to the podcast and the movie discussed?
The Satanic Panic was a moral panic in the 1980s and 90s fueled by fears of Satanic ritual abuse. "The Devil's Advocate" touches on themes of demonic influence and corruption, resonating with the anxieties of the Satanic Panic era.
Who is John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate" and what is the significance of his name?
John Milton, played by Al Pacino, is the charismatic head of a powerful law firm who is revealed to be the Devil. His name is a direct allusion to the author of "Paradise Lost," an epic poem detailing the biblical story of Satan's rebellion and humanity's fall.
What is the central theme of "The Devil's Advocate" regarding free will?
A central theme of "The Devil's Advocate" is free will. The film explores whether individuals are truly in control of their choices or if they are influenced or manipulated by demonic forces, particularly through the character of Kevin Lomax.
How is the film "The Devil's Advocate" described in terms of its tone and style?
The film is described as having a campy tone, despite its serious subject matter. The hosts note that the devil is inherently campy, and the movie's exaggerated performances and dramatic elements contribute to this aesthetic.
What is the significance of Milton's revelation that he is the devil?
Milton's revelation confirms Kevin's suspicions and shifts the narrative focus to Kevin's personal accountability. It establishes that Milton, as the devil, influences but does not control human actions, placing the burden of choice and consequence squarely on Kevin.
How does the introduction of Christabella complicate the plot?
Christabella's introduction as Kevin's half-sister and Milton's daughter adds layers of incestuous themes and further muddles the Antichrist prophecy. Milton's desire for Kevin to impregnate her raises disturbing questions about the film's moral and theological underpinnings.
What is the main critique of the film's ending and Al Pacino's monologue?
The ending is criticized for being abrupt, campy, and overly reliant on Al Pacino's lengthy, rambling monologue. The monologue, while featuring the devil's perspective on the 20th century, is seen as a narrative cop-out and overly self-indulgent.
Why is Kevin's decision to shoot himself significant?
Kevin's suicide is a shocking act that defies Milton's expectations. It leads to Milton's demise and Christabella's death, symbolizing a rejection of the devil's plan and a final, albeit self-destructive, assertion of free will.
How is Marianne's character analyzed through a feminist lens?
Marianne's character is debated as either a victim of hysteria or a genuine observer of evil. Her narrative is seen as reactive to Kevin's, and the film is accused of exploiting female hysteria for tension, despite her character's potential for empathy.
Show Notes
Where do we podcast? Everywhere! Especially when it's with special guest Sarah Marshall talking about The Devil's Advocate (1997)!
Check out Sarah's new podcast The Devil You Know as well as You're Wrong About and You Are Good | @yourewrongaboutpod @youaregoodpod
https://app.magellan.ai/listen_links/c6jXBU
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