This week’s episode begins on a journey through the Netherlands, and ends within the unsure concrete structures of a creative-hub in Amsterdam, where our guest Nell Donkers works as archivist for de Appel, one of Amsterdam’s oldest and signature platforms for contemporary art. Nell has been a dedicated caretaker of this archive - which is such an important part of this institution’s distinction – for more than twenty years, and begged the question what would she bring?Her two distinct contributions -‘The Walk’ (1982) by Willem de Ridder (part I of the episode), and ‘a janitors manifesto’ (2023) by Gunnar Gunnsteinsson (part II) - lead our conversation to how voice and attention to surroundings change our perceptions, ambitions and desires. Also, she tells about where archival thinking begins, how artistic works – and working – can be captured, as well as what the notion of ‘clean’ could mean for the undertaking that is archiving.NOTE: this bilingual episode of The Listening Tide has been cut into two equal parts as we had decided to go from Dutch to English. Part I and Part II are best when listened after each other, but can also be appreciated separately.Enjoy!