Rob and Sara’s story. Sam investigates the impact of recall on IPP prisoners in the community. Change is finally coming - how will it affect them? 

Rob was given an IPP sentence in 2008 and he’s been recalled back to prison 4 times since then. His partner Sara is a campaigner with UNGRIPP, The United Group for Reform of IPP: they met through the work she was doing. Sam meets them in Manchester in May 2024, just as the Victim’s and Prisoner’s Bill is making its way towards a conclusion in Parliament. This bill is bringing in significant reforms to the way that IPP prisoner’s licenses work.  

The IPP license period will be changed from 10 to 3 years for termination with a sunset clause which means that if the license is not terminated at the direction of the Parole Board after 3 years, it will be automatically terminated after a further two years. This will have a direct impact on Rob and other IPP prisoners on license in the community, like him. But behind the headlines are real stories about real people, so Sam is keen to find out how prisoners on license like Rob are coping. She also speaks to the prison lawyers Emma McClure and Andrew Sperling and Dr Alice Edwards the UK Special Rapporteur to get their takes on the recall ‘merry-go-round'. 

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For more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP 

Trapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/

Contributors in order of appearance: 

Rob Dutton, IPP prisoner on license 

Sara Ramsden, Rob’s partner and campaigner 

Emma McClure, Prison Law Solicitor  

Andrew Sperling, Solicitor Advocate @AndrewSperling 

Dr. Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture @DrAliceJEdwards 

Credits: 

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu 

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg 

Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS 

Consultant: Hank Rossi 

A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now 

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