Prepare yourself for the most epic, deep dive into the carnivore diet that you've ever heard.

I recently listened to a physician named Paul Saladino debate research scientist Layne Norton about the carnivore diet on my friend Mark Bell's podcast. I was so intrigued by the episode that I decided to get Paul on my show to explore the science behind the carnivore diet, carnivore diet do's and don'ts, and whether the carnivore diet is a true, sustainable, natural, ancestral nutrition approach or just a dietary fad.

During this show, we cover:

-Why Paul is a raving fan of salmon roe...17:15

• Humans cannot make Omega 3 fatty acids
  • Omega 3's in salmon roe are in the phospholipid form
  • Salmon roe crosses the blood brain barrier more efficiently than in the triglyceride or ethyl ester form (which you'll find in most fish oil capsules)
• Two tbsps of salmon roe gives you the DHA without being exposed to the metals
• Benefit of getting a nutrient from a food vs. from a supplement
• Concern with oxidation in fish oil:
  • Look for certificate of analysis
  • Look at levels of lipid peroxides
  • Not nearly as much oxidation in eggs than the fish

-Why Paul doesn't consume black pepper...21:15

• A central principle of the carnivorous diet: plants are not put on the earth to serve humans
• Develop potentially toxic compounds to defend themselves from other animals
• A peppercorn is the seed of a plant
  • The seeds are where a higher concentration of pesticides and toxins reside
  • Pepper contains a compound called piperine, which inhibits UDP glucuronosyltransferase
• In essence: black pepper inhibits our body's natural detoxification process.
• Piperine is added to curcumin supplements to increase the level of curcumin you can absorb
• We don't actually use these molecules in human biochemistry
  • Used to activate certain pathways to produce our own antioxidants (which is glutathione)
• Plants induce Nrf2, while simultaneously doing toxic things to our bodies
• Sulforaphane is considered to be a highly beneficial molecule as a precursor to glutathione pathways
  • But is known to be a goitrogen (meaning it can induce hypothyroidism)
• Key take away: You can simulate the benefits of eating plants by eating meat and living a healthy lifestyle

-Why Paul refused a cup of Kion Coffee when offered by Ben...30:45

• Coffee is felt to be beneficial because of a couple of polyphenolic compounds: chloragenic acid and caffeic acid
  • These have been found to be clastogenic (DNA damage)
• A coffee bean is the seed of a plant, which contains toxins as a natural defense mechanism
• Very few animals eat those seeds

-Aren't plants like exercise, where you need them, but too much can be harmful?...26:05

• Hormesis is potential benefit of plants
• Sulforaphane:
  • Is linked to hypothyroidism
  • Depends on one's baseline level of iodine consumption
  • Does not exist in a plant
  • Glucoraphanin is converted into sulforaphane by Myrosinase
    • Highest levels are found in broccoli seeds and sprouts
• Humans are "facultative carnivores" meaning we can get everything we need from meat without ingesting the toxins found in plants.

-Storage organs in plants that result in larger brains and smaller guts...46:35

• Richard Wrangham
• Tubers
  • Fairly toxic generally speaking
  • Ancestral (non-hybridized) tubers aren't as valuable to humans due to size, appearance, etc.
  • Developed big brains by eating bone marrow and brains of animals (as scavengers)
  • No DHA, or fatty acids in a tuber
  • Macronutrients for short term survival; micronutrients for long term survival
  • Tubers have macronutrients, but not micronutrients
• Fossils of homo erectus found near water: algae, DHA, other micronutrients
• Just because tubers were efficacious for our ancestors doesn't mean we should choose them today
  • Animals provide all the micronutrients we need in the most bioavailable forms
  • The ultimate multivitamin for a human would be an animal

-Why plants may not be necessary, could be harmful to the gut, and are "survival food"...50:50

• Vilhjalmur Stefansson: Lived with Inuit people for a year
  • Observed they ate plants only when "real foods" i.e. animals weren't available
• Book: 100 Million Years of Food by Stephen Lee
• Even though humans have made plants more digestible via sprouting, fermenting, etc. we should still opt for the ribeye steak.

-Whether a carnivorous diet is sustainable or ethical...53:53

• Eat the animal "nose to tail"
• Book: The Whole Beast by Fergus Henderson
• Muscle meat is high in methionine but low in glycine
• Best results come when we eat organs and tendons along with the muscle meat
  • Different nutrients in different parts of the animal
• Why Ben called the carnivore diet "lazy" on the Joe Rogan podcast
• Carbohydrate availability for the thyroid
  • Ancestors would eat the thyroid immediately after killing an animal
• Do you need plants to consume adequate amounts of vitamins and minerals?
  • Good amounts of Vitamin C in liver and in brain; whale blubber
  • Liver also has large amounts of carotenal, a precursor to Vitamin A
  • Quercetin doesn't directly contribute to human biochemistry
  • You may not be able to get flavonoids from meat, but you may not need them at all

-How we would consume fiber on a carnivore diet, or if we even need it at all...1:06:40

• The debate between Paul Saladino and Layne Norton on the Mark Bell show
• Fiber is a "fairy tale"
  • Physician named Burkett in Tanzania
  • Tanzanians did not have as many cases of diverticulosis as Westerners
  • Erroneously equated high amounts of fiber intake with low cases of diverticulosis
  • The reverse is true
  • Applies to insoluble and soluble fiber
• "Healthy user bias" affects studies on fiber
  • People who eat less meat and more fiber, and engage in healthy activities
  • Stereotypical "meat eater": Steak, fries, cake, etc.

-Why Ben Greenfield is hesitant to embrace a full-on carnivore diet...1:13:50

• Variety is the spice of life (colors of food, tastes, etc.)
• Humans are "facultative carnivores"
  • Meant to eat animals, but can eat plants when animals are not available
  • Plants can contribute to life enjoyment if you choose to use them in your diet

-The carnivore diet and longevity...1:23:30

• Fallacy: centenarians live longer because of genetics. They live long in spite of what they eat.
• Theory of "blue zones" has been incorrectly interpreted
  • Not caused by diet (plants, legumes, etc.)
  • Clusters of longevity mutation in certain genes; improves insulin sensitivity, antioxidants, etc.
• High insulin sensitivity when carbs are cut out

-Carnivore vs. ketosis...1:28:45

• Three micronutrients: carbs, protein, fat
• We can run on two fuels: fat or carbs
  • fat that is stored or that you're eating
  • No such thing as an "essential carbohydrate"
• You can have a ketogenic diet that includes some plant foods that are potentially immunotoxic
• Carnivorous diet is by default a ketogenic because you're not eating plant-based carbs (trace amounts in meat)
• What about coconut oil and coconut cream?
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