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The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle
The White House ramps up its immigration crackdowns as Trump signs more orders that look very similar to Project 2025's priorities
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The White House ramps up its immigration crackdowns as Trump signs more orders that look very similar to Project 2025's priorities
Update: 2025-01-28
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Trump signs more executive orders that mirror policies outlined in Project 2025's playbook. Plus, why Chinese AI startup 'DeepSeek' spooked investors. And, Elon Musk faces backlash after his weekend comments at a rally for Germany's far-right party. Luke Broadwater, Susan Glasser, Dave Weigel, Brendan Greeley, Ron Insana, Mark McKinnon, and Brad Meltzer join The 11th Hour this Monday.
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Transcript
00:00:00
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00:00:29
Tonight, the Trump administration ramps up its nationwide immigration crackdown, a closer look on who is being targeted.
00:00:39
Then, the president unleashes more executive orders that seem to take a few pages right out of Project 2025's playbook.
00:00:46
We break it all down.
00:00:48
Plus, a Chinese artificial intelligence start-up says, it's made a cheaper AI chatbot, sending the US tech market spiraling, as the 11th hour gets underway on this Monday night.
00:00:59
(upbeat music)
00:01:02
Good evening.
00:01:07
Once again, I'm Stephanie Rool.
00:01:08
It is day eight of the second Trump administration and the White House has wasted absolutely no time implementing their immigration crackdown.
00:01:16
Multiple agencies are collaborating to carry out sweeps throughout the country.
00:01:21
Our own Gabe Goudierras brings us the details on the ground in the city of Chicago.
00:01:25
Tonight, President Trump's promise crackdown on the legal immigration is underway.
00:01:32
We get a firsthand look in Chicago, writing along with ICE agents at dawn.
00:01:37
- We are putting more resources towards enforcement now.
00:01:39
- The first stop in apartment complex.
00:01:42
No one answered the door.
00:01:44
They're not allowed to go inside, so we're moving on.
00:01:47
It can take a team of federal officers hours to make one arrest.
00:01:51
- I think that on this team we're close to 10.
00:01:53
- We're just going after one suspect.
00:01:56
- That's a lot of non-power.
00:01:57
- It is.
00:01:58
- We're now heading to the northwest part of the city.
00:02:00
Yesterday, they couldn't find one particular 25-year-old from Mexico with a lengthy criminal history, but this morning a surveillance team has just seen them at work.
00:02:08
When we arrive at a tire shop, 25-year-old Christopher Lada is arrested outside.
00:02:13
I says he has a criminal record, including home invasion and aggravated battery.
00:02:17
Agents lead him away in handcuffs.
00:02:19
A resident here telling us he supports President Trump's deportations.
00:02:23
- I don't mind an immigrant, but if they're breaking our laws, they don't need to be here.
00:02:28
- A senior administration official tells NBC News ICE arrested nearly 1200 undocumented immigrants on Sunday, some wanted for assault and armed robbery, but adding only about half had prior criminal records,
00:02:40
in addition to being in the country illegally.
00:02:42
- Do you expect collateral arrests in these operations?
00:02:45
- Yeah, you know, I definitely expect it to happen.
00:02:47
I mean, we have the laws on the books and our officers are out there.
00:02:50
- Overnight, the president's mass deportation plan leading to a showdown with Colombia.
00:02:55
After that country's president abruptly turned away two U.S.
00:02:59
military aircraft with deportees, saying a migrant is not a criminal and should be treated with the dignity a human being deserves.
00:03:07
Trump quickly threatening the country with a 25% tariff on all Colombian goods.
00:03:12
The country's president backed down, according to the White House, agreeing to all of President Trump's terms, including the unrestricted acceptance of migrants.
00:03:21
- The policies, though, we should not be surprised.
00:03:24
Donald Trump said he was going to be tough on immigration, but the policies here and beyond look a lot like some of the specific proposals found in Project 2025's mandate for leadership.
00:03:37
You remember, this was the conservative roadmap for Donald Trump's first 100 days that Trump himself and his team insisted that he had nothing to do with,
00:03:48
and he was not the only one making that argument.
00:03:50
Watch this.
00:03:51
- They made up about Project 25.
00:03:54
They've been told officially, legally, in every way that we have nothing to do with Project 25.
00:04:01
- Project 2025 has absolutely nothing to do with the past, present, or future.
00:04:06
President Trump.
00:04:07
- Project 2025 is not affiliated with the Trump campaign.
00:04:10
Kevin Roberts is a friend of mine, but I wouldn't say that he speaks for the president and the same way I wouldn't say that he speaks for me.
00:04:16
- This is the Heritage Foundation president.
00:04:18
That's like the number one Republican.
00:04:20
- Beking a Project 2025.
00:04:21
- Okay, well, that's kind of a (beep)
00:04:24
talking point.
00:04:25
- Or is it, let's look at where we are today.
00:04:28
Donald Trump signed executive orders to send 15,000 troops to the Southern border and suspend the U.S.
00:04:34
refugee admissions program.
00:04:36
Project 2025 called for the use of active duty military to assist in arrest operations on the border and the indefinite curtailment of refugee admissions.
00:04:46
Check and check.
00:04:48
But that is not the only area where Donald Trump's agenda and the conservative wish list are overlapping.
00:04:53
There's plenty of similarities on issues like climate and energy policy, anti-discrimination policy and sex and gender policy.
00:05:03
We've heard a lot about all of the above already.
00:05:06
For example, the president announced earlier today what he will be signing new orders reversing military policies on COVID-19 vaccination, transgender service members,
00:05:17
and diversity, equity and inclusion measures.
00:05:20
And Project 2025, well, the section covering the defense department includes the following.
00:05:26
Reinstating service members who are discharged for not receiving the COVID vaccine, abolishing DEI programs and barring transgender people from serving in the military.
00:05:35
Check, check, and check.
00:05:38
One could say it's a triple check.
00:05:41
With that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel tonight.
00:05:44
Dave Weigel is here, a political reporter for 7-4.
00:05:47
Susan Glasser joins a staff writer for The New Yorker and Luke Broadwater, Pulitzer Prize winning White House correspondent for The New York Times and co-author of the brand new book, Mad House.
00:05:56
All right, Susan, it has been exactly one week.
00:06:01
And there has been a huge amount of overlap between Donald Trump, President of Trump's executive actions and plans and what was already laid out in Project 2025.
00:06:11
Are people now taking this seriously that 2025 is actually a roadmap for the next 92 days?
00:06:20
You know, get out your copy and start looking if you want to know what's going to happen next in the Trump administration staff.
00:06:26
I really appreciate the effort to go back and to fact check and to make sure that people are recording this.
00:06:33
It was a shameless act of campaign season puffery.
00:06:36
Of course, many people understood at the time.
00:06:39
Not just you, many others understood.
00:06:41
But when you have a wall of disinformation and misinformation coming from political candidates who are telling Americans one thing while planning to do something very different,
00:06:53
what I'm struck by is just how maximalist and radical are the decisions being made early on in this Trump administration now that we're only one week into it.
00:07:04
There's a new order that's just coming out tonight from the Office of Management and Budget essentially canceling all federal spending.
00:07:12
Again, comes right out of the playbook of the architect of Project 2025, who was Trump's first term budget director has been having his confirmation hearings to return.
00:07:24
Russell Vott, he's the one who makes the legal claim, which I think is a very outlandish legal claim that the president can essentially cancel spending, authorize and legislated and appropriated by Congress that he doesn't like.
00:07:37
I imagine this is going to be the subject of many lawsuits, but it's a pretty breathtaking assertion of authority by the new president.
00:07:47
Luke, what's your take?
00:07:48
Based on this, I'm going to say massive overlap just in the last week.
00:07:53
What do you think's coming next from this administration?
00:07:55
I mean, Russell's not even in the job officially yet.
00:07:59
Yeah, I think Susan's right.
00:08:00
Russ Vott is probably a name that is not familiar to many Americans.
00:08:06
But he's about to be one of the most significant figures in Washington.
00:08:10
He's going to control the budget.
00:08:12
In many ways, he's the intellectual leader of at least one wing of the Republican Party that's going to have a huge influence over the Trump administration.
00:08:24
So he's going to be able to withhold funding from Ukraine, if he wants to, if that's what President Trump wants, he's going to be able to redirect monies to President Trump's priorities.
00:08:41
Basically, everything you saw in Project 2025, he's going to be able to carry out from the inside of the administration if he gets that OK from President Trump.
00:08:54
And in some cases, President Trump has even gone farther than what Project 2025 said.
00:09:02
For instance, when you look at the pardoning of the January 6th rioters, that first was supposed to be a case by case basis.
00:09:10
But he determined that was taking too long, and he would just pardon everybody.
00:09:15
So he is going for the maximum approach in many of these cases.
00:09:19
Susan, let's talk about Colombia for a second.
00:09:22
Colombia appears to have backed down real, real quick after President Trump made his tire of threat.
00:09:28
Is there an argument to be made that Donald Trump's threats are working, at least in this case, what's your take?
00:09:35
Yeah, I mean, United States of America has an enormous and outsized number of cards to play in its dealings with all of its neighbors, not only Mexico and Canada,
00:09:47
but Colombia, Panama, and others in the region.
00:09:50
And that's the thing about bullies, isn't it stuff that they like to punch down?
00:09:55
Donald Trump, that's what he's doing here.
00:09:58
Look at the targets that he's talked about early on in his new presidency.
00:10:02
It's not Russia, it's not China.
00:10:04
He's talking about punching hard against Mexico and Canada and Panama and Colombia.
00:10:11
And I think it shows an approach to foreign policy in which it's essentially the might make right and the weak do as they can.
00:10:19
And that's, I think, essentially his view, what was striking about it was that it was a fight that didn't need to be had, but Trump seeks outfights as a way of aggrandizing himself,
00:10:30
putting himself in the center of the action.
00:10:32
In any other administration, of course, there are issues that come up.
00:10:36
We were already doing large numbers of deportation flights as I understand it to Colombia.
00:10:41
This would have been handled at far, far lower levels of the bureaucracy without escalating it into an international incident.
00:10:48
But, of course, Trump wanted to have the fight.
00:10:51
And I think that's what we learned from this.
00:10:53
- But Dave, what's Donald Trump's downside?
00:10:56
He would argue he didn't need to have that fight, but he had it in America one, and that's what he's here to do.
00:11:01
Why wouldn't he do that?
00:11:03
He's gonna take this as a huge win.
00:11:05
- I think you've assessed it correctly, and a lot of this is optics.
00:11:09
And Joe Biden's last year, there were about 271,000 deportations.
00:11:14
It's about 740 a day.
00:11:16
That's the pace of these initial ice raids.
00:11:19
The difference is that the Biden administration was not inviting reporters for rightalongs, the Trump administration is packaging it and explaining what's going on, and linking all of it to direct action that Trump is taking.
00:11:29
That's some of the boldness you're seeing in the implementation of these executive orders.
00:11:33
It's stuff that Trump ran on, stuff he talked about, stuff they dodged during the campaign if it was a problem for them rhetorically that week.
00:11:42
But the overall picture you get if you're watching for home is that Donald Trump is taking action.
00:11:46
If you listen to Republicans meeting right now in Florida, if you think of Donald Trump property, one thing they say is that he got more done in his first week than some presidents have in their entire career.
00:11:56
As Tom Emmer said, then Joe Biden did in his whole political career.
00:11:59
Him taking action that might be remanded by a court or might be challenged by another country that does or doesn't back down.
00:12:07
That's almost immaterial because the picture is Donald Trump taking action.
00:12:11
- Okay, well then let's talk about this action because Politico is reporting Dave that the office of management and budget ordered all federal agencies to temporarily freeze,
00:12:22
freeze pause to stop payments to all federal financial assistance programs, excluding social security and Medicare.
00:12:31
What can you tell us about this?
00:12:33
Because there's a lot of people out there who will be paying attention on this one.
00:12:36
- Yeah, and this memo was going around my colleague, a Kadea Goba grabbed a copy earlier tonight and that's what jumped out to everyone who was looking at is that there are lots of programs not mentioned this.
00:12:47
Social security and Medicare carved out.
00:12:49
There are descriptions of programs like anything related to the Green New Deal.
00:12:53
You did not miss anything.
00:12:55
The Green New Deal did not pass in the forum that progress was wanted to pass.
00:12:59
They were hopeful that some of the climate initiatives that Biden got through the IRA and other projects met their goals but not the Green New Deal.
00:13:07
So this is written in such a broad way.
00:13:09
We're going to see how it shakes out.
00:13:12
This was part of the plan though.
00:13:13
They're the idea of empowerment and of restoring this Nixon era.
00:13:18
Presidential idea of refusing to appropriate money that Congress wants to appropriate.
00:13:22
This was in the works before the election.
00:13:24
It was a little bit quieter.
00:13:26
Press vote who we talked about before was very talkative of the first two years the President say less so in the last two years because he was working on these orders and working on how to write things for the President to say,
00:13:37
for these officials to say they're memos that could not immediately be stopped in court or that would take a while for the opposition to puzzle out.
00:13:44
This is one of them.
00:13:45
This is a test that you have not seen.
00:13:47
A President try.
00:13:48
I'd say 50 years.
00:13:49
Bill Clinton with a line out in veto with the Congress actually gave him.
00:13:52
They were trying to do something new and we had to see how people react.
00:13:55
So lots of people, not inside the government, outside the government are looking at the wording of this memo and saying, how does that affect me?
00:14:00
What does that mean?
00:14:01
What grant am I working on that's going to be canceled?
00:14:03
What benefit am I getting at home if I'm on SNAP that I'm not going to get if this plays out?
00:14:08
It is fairly chaotic, but that's again, part of the point.
00:14:11
- All right, Luke, let's talk about the Senate confirming Scott Besson for Treasury Secretary today.
00:14:17
People could like or hate the policies that he supports, but he's a completely qualified candidate for the job.
00:14:25
But we're also going to see a lot more controversial, controversial picks this week.
00:14:29
Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Junior, Cash Patel.
00:14:31
What are we expecting, Luke?
00:14:32
- Yeah, Scott Besson is admittedly qualified and support from both parties.
00:14:39
The bigger issue, Tulsi Gabbard, Cash Patel, RFK Junior, they are going to face a real fight, especially I think Tulsi Gabbard.
00:14:50
All eyes are going to be on Mitch McConnell, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski.
00:14:56
Those will probably be no votes against Tulsi Gabbard and we'll see whether there are four, five, six or seven Republicans who may go against her.
00:15:05
A lot's going to depend on her hearing and how it goes.
00:15:09
If there are any red flags that come up or if she can sort of put on the performance that Donald Trump most likely wants to see, that sort of fiery fighting back against woke liberals or whatever they would say.
00:15:25
That's what the Trump White House wants to see from her.
00:15:29
We'll see if that performance will be accepted by the more mainstream Republicans and there are fewer and fewer of them left in the Senate.
00:15:37
- Well, Trump really likes her and the White House has warned that there will be consequences for Republicans who don't support his nominees.
00:15:44
What's that going to look like, Dave?
00:15:45
- Well, you could finish what Luke was doing, camped down their Republicans.
00:15:50
What are the consequences for Mitch McConnell?
00:15:51
Probably none, he probably doesn't run for re-election.
00:15:54
For Susan Collins, probably none.
00:15:55
She does not hurt in Maine if she votes against Tulsi Gabbard.
00:15:58
You've seen with Gabbard and Kennedy, building on what he was saying, these are people who were not Republicans 10 minutes ago.
00:16:04
And so you're asking a lot of the entire Republican apparatus to say these people who worked against us, who weren't part of our party.
00:16:11
In the case of RFK Jr., who was environmentalist, we never would have confirmed anything before Donald Trump.
00:16:17
This is not a litmus test.
00:16:18
You as a Republican must support them.
00:16:19
You're seeing resistance from some outside Republican conservative forces, the New York Post, for example, that don't, oh, Tulsi Gabbard or Robert F.
00:16:27
Kennedy Jr., anything.
00:16:29
And so, yes, the consequences are less than for Pete Hegseth.
00:16:32
Pete Hegseth was someone who, if you were a Fox News, you or if you were a conservative activist, you knew him for 15 years, you trusted him.
00:16:39
That is not the case here, beyond what their record is.
00:16:42
And the way Democrats have responded in these hearings more aggressive, I'd say Tim Cain, for example, more aggressive than a lot of people would have thought coming in with the research they've done, with the questions they've had.
00:16:52
These are chances for Democrats to raise significant questions that maybe voters who took a chance on Trump did not think he was going to answer these nominations and pull off a couple of Republican votes.
00:17:03
People who can go back to their constituents maybe in two or four years and say, I voted for every nominee, but I didn't vote for that guy who was an environmentalist liberal or Tulsi Gabbard who supported Medicare for all.
00:17:14
You could finesse that in a way that you couldn't finesse a vote against Hegseth.
00:17:18
All right, thank you all for starting yourself this evening.
00:17:20
David Susan Luke, I appreciate it.
00:17:23
When we return, you know I was going to talk about this tonight, tech stocks plunge.
00:17:28
As a Chinese competitor raises serious doubts about America's dominance in artificial intelligence.
00:17:35
And later, we have seen Elon Musk get smack in the middle of our politics.
00:17:40
Now he is looking overseas and heading straight to Germany.
00:17:43
The 11th hour just getting underway on an important Monday night.
00:17:47
It's President Trump's first 100 days.
00:17:54
And MSNBC's Alex Wagner will be covering it all from the front lines.
00:17:59
What issue matters to you the most?
00:18:00
Join her as she travels the country to talk to the people at the center of the president's policies and promises.
00:18:06
Do you think now that he's pardoned everybody?
00:18:08
He can count on this group of people again.
00:18:10
Search for Trump Land with Alex Wagner, wherever you're listening and follow.
00:18:15
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen ad-free.
00:18:21
The first 100 days, bills are passed.
00:18:24
Executive orders are signed.
00:18:25
And presidencies are defined.
00:18:27
And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
00:18:33
Now is the time so we're going to do it.
00:18:35
Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
00:18:39
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition on the country?
00:18:45
The Rachel Maddow Show.
00:18:47
Weeknights at 9 p.m.
00:18:48
Eastern on MSNBC.
00:18:55
Time for Money Power Politics.
00:18:56
U.S.
00:18:57
Chipmaker Nuvidia suffered a colossal sell-off on Wall Street today and dragged the entire U.S.
00:19:03
sect, tech sector down with it.
00:19:07
It's a Monday, sorry, boys and girls.
00:19:09
Shares plunged 17% after a new Chinese AI app that most of you had never heard of yesterday, but everybody's talking about today called deep-seek, spooked investors in a big way.
00:19:20
The plunge resulted in a market cab loss of close to $600 billion the biggest drop ever for U.S.
00:19:27
company.
00:19:28
News of the Chinese competitor comes just a few days after President Trump announced a multi-billion-dollar investment into AI development in the United States.
00:19:38
Watch this.
00:19:40
As you know, there's great competition for AI.
00:19:42
What we want to do is we want to keep it in this country.
00:19:44
China is a competitor and others are competitors.
00:19:47
Technology and artificial intelligence.
00:19:49
So all made in the USA.
00:19:52
So even if you're not a tech person, even if you are not an investor at all, we are about to explain to you why all of this matters.
00:19:59
And I have the two best guests to do it.
00:20:00
Brendan Greeley is here, contributing editor for the Financial Times and Ron Insana, CNBC, Senior Analyst, and CEO of ifi.ai.
00:20:08
Okay, Ron.
00:20:10
It is not just that in a video for Wall Street folks has been everybody's absolute favorite for the last few years.
00:20:17
It's also that we have been told every aspect of our future is going to be centered around artificial intelligence and that it will cost hundreds and hundreds of billion dollars for the United States to be the dominant force.
00:20:32
What happened?
00:20:33
Well, deep sea came up with an AI product that was similar to chat GPT.
00:20:39
And the final stages of that cost considerably less $6 million.
00:20:44
They used less expensive computer chips.
00:20:46
We think to build it out, they used much less energy than would be required to build out AI capacity in the United States.
00:20:53
And so the chain reaction that you saw here was number one, it's not going to cost as much.
00:20:58
You may not have to buy the $100,000 Nvidia chips.
00:21:01
You may not need all that power.
00:21:03
And so we saw energy sell off.
00:21:05
We saw energy stock sell off.
00:21:06
We saw the technology sector sell off.
00:21:08
And this is calling into question, what exactly you need to build the equivalent of or something better than a chat GPT type platform?
00:21:19
What do you think?
00:21:20
I think you have problems with the business models of these American companies.
00:21:23
They had basically, they had settled on a strategy of more.
00:21:26
They wanted more power.
00:21:27
They wanted more chips.
00:21:28
They wanted more protection.
00:21:29
They wanted and got more investment.
00:21:31
And the problem is more didn't win in this case.
00:21:34
And that's what's so fascinating.
00:21:36
This is a case in a way of innovation under constraints.
00:21:38
We both administrations worked really hard to consequentially actually deny the chips to China, the China needed to do this, that we thought they needed.
00:21:47
But they somehow got some slightly older chips.
00:21:49
They sort of got them through the embargo.
00:21:51
And then they actually programmed in a really clever way.
00:21:54
And it turns out that we're not that good at predicting what causes innovation.
00:21:58
And if you constrain things, it can actually cause people to be really creative.
00:22:02
And so-- - Okay, so right there.
00:22:03
We forced them to innovate, and they won.
00:22:07
Or they did really, really well.
00:22:09
We're not gonna say why.
00:22:09
- Here's the difference.
00:22:12
Both of these products are very expensive to make.
00:22:14
And we think that the Chinese product deep seek is much more expensive to make than they're letting on.
00:22:18
However, it looks like the model that it produced can run on the Mac that you have.
00:22:24
And very soon it'll be able to run on a Raspberry Pi.
00:22:27
This is like a tiny processor you could buy for 130 bucks that your kids do science experiments on.
00:22:32
That's the difference.
00:22:33
But there are some concerns still.
00:22:34
If we were as individuals to use the Chinese product and load it onto our computer, how much do we sacrifice our privacy?
00:22:42
What are we giving to the Chinese government?
00:22:44
If indeed they are some stalking horse on their behalf.
00:22:47
And so there are still the national security and privacy concerns that go along with this.
00:22:51
Even if it is the potentially cheaper, better product.
00:22:54
- Okay, but then how do you balance the two, right?
00:22:57
It was just several weeks ago that Congress passed a lot of ban TikTok because of this idea, we do not want a Chinese owned company to have this kind of information,
00:23:10
right?
00:23:10
President Biden signed it.
00:23:11
We thought President Trump has put it on hold, but this company should we not have the same concerns?
00:23:18
- Yeah, sure, but there's also a problem with the way we're running this at home.
00:23:23
These companies went to the federal government and they said give us protection and we will help America dominate.
00:23:29
And every time a company in any industry says that, I get a little nervous and I'm sure Ron does too because what that really means is that they're helping their investors and their shareholders dominate.
00:23:38
And, you know-- - I want you to slow this down and say it again, because it wasn't like the Biden, so what you're doing is going back to the announcement that President Trump made with Sam Altman and other big AI companies.
00:23:50
It wasn't that the Biden administration wasn't working with them, they were.
00:23:53
- Absolutely work.
00:23:54
- But the Biden administration, especially in that executive order, wanted all sorts of rules and regulations to protect the American people.
00:24:02
Once Trump got an office, they rolled out and said yo, yo, yo.
00:24:06
We're gonna do all this stuff, but you need to take all the guard rails off and he said, how big?
00:24:10
300 million?
00:24:11
500 million?
00:24:12
Okay, I'm in.
00:24:13
- All the supports, none of the constraints.
00:24:15
So we're not that good at figuring out what causes innovation.
00:24:19
Unfortunately, the way you encourage innovation is you make sure that there's good education in the country and you make sure that there's good infrastructure in the country and then you would kind of hope if something happens.
00:24:28
And that's not very exciting if you're a politician because you don't get to like go to a factory opening and say, I made this happen.
00:24:34
But unfortunately, there's no like big constituency for the things that cause innovation in the long term.
00:24:40
Instead, what you get is companies saying, give me something except constraints.
00:24:44
- There's also no big constituency for rules.
00:24:47
There's no big voting box saying, give us rules.
00:24:50
But when something blows up, people are saying, please save me now.
00:24:54
- Well, there is some good news here.
00:24:56
Number one, if there is a cheaper and better way to do this that it would be great for consumers assuming that we do it and we do it with the proper constraints.
00:25:03
However, in the pipeline, in the venture capital community, for instance, there are people who have invested billions of billions of dollars into this space.
00:25:13
And if there is a cheaper alternative, their models, their investments might go south.
00:25:18
So there are many layers to this, not the least of which remain the national security constraints.
00:25:23
- All right, before we go, Scott Fesson confirmed his Treasury Secretary today.
00:25:27
What are we in for?
00:25:28
- Surprisingly non-radical choice for Treasury Secretary.
00:25:34
And what is seen by markets as a moderating force around tariffs.
00:25:40
So he said, yes, I understand in a way why they might be necessary, but we're going to introduce them slowly and not arbitrarily overnight to Columbia, for example.
00:25:49
And that's something, markets seem to like Besson.
00:25:51
And consistently, this administration and the last Trump administration, they do not mess with Treasury or the Fed.
00:25:57
- That is true, but guess what?
00:25:58
Well done on tariffs.
00:26:00
Donald Trump is going to say, how do you like me now?
00:26:03
Look what he just did with Columbia.
00:26:04
He made demands over the 24 hours.
00:26:06
And they said, thank you, sir.
00:26:07
May I have another?
00:26:08
- Upon confirmation, Scott Besson also came out and said he wants to cut taxes.
00:26:11
And he would like to replace the income tax with a national sales tax, which is what's at least in part done in Europe.
00:26:18
I don't know how popular that would be here in the United States, because you cannot collect the same type of revenue from a national sales tax than you can from income taxes.
00:26:25
So, this is something we've argued over now for most of my adult life.
00:26:29
We'll see whether or not there's any appetite for it in the future.
00:26:32
- We'll be watching.
00:26:33
Well, you're in luck.
00:26:34
These two gentlemen aren't leaving just yet.
00:26:36
When we return, Mark McKinnon will join the conversation.
00:26:39
And we're going to talk Elon Musk, not just getting involved in U.S.
00:26:42
politics.
00:26:43
Now boosting Germany's far right party ahead of their elections.
00:26:48
(dramatic music)
00:26:52
- I know I say it a lot, but I really mean it this time.
00:26:57
80 years ago today, Allied soldiers liberated the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz in Poland.
00:27:03
That is why January 27th is known as International Holocaust Remembrance Day.
00:27:08
Well, this weekend, Elon Musk, the world's richest man and a very close ally to President Donald Trump, spoke to Germany's far right party known as the AFD.
00:27:18
Germany's national security services have labeled the AFD a suspected, extremist organization.
00:27:25
But Elon Musk has given the group his full support and had this message for them over the weekend.
00:27:30
- I think there's like, frankly too much of a focus on past guilt and we need to move beyond that.
00:27:37
Children should not be guilty of the sins of their parents or even let alone their parents, their great grandparents, maybe even.
00:27:47
- The German of Israel's official Holocaust memorial responded saying that remembering Germany's dark past should be central to shaping the country's society and that failing to do so is an insult to the victims of the Nazis and a danger to the democratic future of Germany.
00:28:04
Brennan-Ran still with us.
00:28:06
Mark McKinnon joins us as well.
00:28:07
He's a former advisor to Republican leaders.
00:28:10
Mark, can you imagine how those leaders would have reacted?
00:28:14
If a top ally of the president said something like this, said something like that to a group like this, Mark doesn't have audio yet, so I turn to you, Ron.
00:28:23
What do you think?
00:28:24
- Look, I mean, my first next door neighbor in Buffalo, New York was a Holocaust survivor.
00:28:28
Mrs.
00:28:29
Peta, my father served in World War II.
00:28:30
My mother worked in a war plant.
00:28:32
I mean, anybody who thinks that you should forget any of the lessons of World War II has not studied history which means you are doomed to repeat it.
00:28:40
And so the fact that he came out and I understand that the people of Germany stay are not responsible for what transpired in the 1940s.
00:28:47
But there is no way they should erase the memory of that in any way, shape or form.
00:28:52
- Brennan, Germany is a key US ally.
00:28:56
And its government is concerned about this AFD group.
00:29:00
What kind of message does it send Germany that a person as powerful as Elon Musk as closely tied to the current president is doing something like this?
00:29:11
- The stuff this story makes me desperately sad.
00:29:13
I've lived and worked in Germany.
00:29:15
I was a high school student there.
00:29:17
I have many close friends still today.
00:29:19
The Holocaust was part of the high school curriculum there.
00:29:24
So when I was a high school student, they took us all to a concentration camp and they walked us through it and they explained it to us.
00:29:30
It was part of the national curriculum to understand what happened.
00:29:34
Their every country wants to be proud of itself.
00:29:37
Germans too, there is a frustration with what they get to be proud of.
00:29:41
There is a constant, it is known as the German question.
00:29:44
Do we get to be proud of anything?
00:29:46
This is not the answer.
00:29:49
The challenge with alternatives for Germany, this is the part you're talking about, is that they are strongest in the areas of Germany that are economically the weakest in the East.
00:30:01
And the most awful, most destructive thing you could have possibly done is give them legitimacy.
00:30:09
And that's what this does.
00:30:11
They have been a fringe party.
00:30:13
They were at 5%, 10%, they're currently at 20% in the polls.
00:30:16
And what this sends, this signal is that essentially an ambassador of the president of the United States is on their side.
00:30:24
This is not a normal celebrity endorsement.
00:30:27
- And he's more than an ambassador.
00:30:29
This says we are in an alliance with the United States.
00:30:32
And that gives them a legitimacy that they have never had and never would have otherwise had.
00:30:36
- I think Mark is with us now, Mark, can you hear me?
00:30:40
- I got your stuff.
00:30:41
- What is your take on this?
00:30:43
- Well, I think the point that it was just made is one of the really bears amplification, which is that Elon Musk is flying really close to the sun now.
00:30:54
In the sense that he's representing the American presidency abroad without Portfolio.
00:31:01
And people, when they see and hear him speak, they think he's speaking for Donald Trump.
00:31:06
Nobody elected Elon Musk.
00:31:08
And the problem is that it is sending a very clear message that this is endorsed by the United States.
00:31:16
And you know, you can talk about all the problematic components of this, but this is a party that doesn't think there should be a Holocaust museum.
00:31:23
And that's talking of, and what they're doing is they want to erase history and rewrite it.
00:31:29
And what does that remind you of January 6th was a patriotic act.
00:31:32
It's same thing is happening here.
00:31:34
So I think it's just, it's really problematic to have somebody without Portfolio spreading the message on behalf of the American president.
00:31:44
It's interpreted as a message from the American president that he's endorsing these policies and these parties overseas.
00:31:52
Mark, we have seen plenty of ultra wealthy people get involved in politics before.
00:31:58
I know as soon as I even say that, my Twitter feed is going to be filled with people writing George Soros, George Soros, George Soros.
00:32:05
But have we ever seen anyone do this much in this many countries at the same time as what Elon Musk is doing?
00:32:15
No, we haven't, Stephanie.
00:32:16
And I really think that if a narrative begins to develop, which I think it already has, that's going to be ultimately problematic for Donald Trump and the Republican party,
00:32:28
it is this notion that the powerful and the wealthy can control politics, not only here in America, but around the world.
00:32:35
And that's when people begin to say, well, that's not really on my side, whose side are they on?
00:32:41
They're fighting for power.
00:32:42
They're fighting for money.
00:32:43
They're fighting for greed on behalf of billionaires.
00:32:46
And that's a message that I think is going to ultimately have a lot of resonance among Trump's critics.
00:32:52
All right, well, the Atlantic's Ann Applebaum, she went as far as to say Musk and these other tech oligarchs are making it impossible to conduct free and fair elections anywhere because of their vast wealth and not just their wealth,
00:33:06
their super control of information.
00:33:08
Do you agree with that one?
00:33:09
I think there's a fair point to be made there.
00:33:11
I mean, that's a chilling statement.
00:33:13
It is what has been claimed of George Soros by, by the right for the use.
00:33:17
Let me just remind people that George Soros, when the Berlin Wall fell, and Russia was disintegrating, Soviet Union was disintegrating, paid Russian nuclear scientists $300 million to maintain their lifestyle so they would not sell nuclear seats secrets to rogue states.
00:33:33
People forget about some of these things.
00:33:34
Not being an apologist for him, but with respect to the open societies that he's tried to breed.
00:33:40
It's a different type of thing.
00:33:42
These folks that now control information in ways that mainstream media never have, despite accusations to the contrary, do hold unusual power over perception.
00:33:54
And I think that's what's vastly different here is that there is the ability among these tech oligarchs, brologarks, whatever, how are you going to characterize them, to create an environment in which no one knows what the actual truth is.
00:34:07
And it's very difficult in that environment to make an informed decisions.
00:34:10
They were just going to have to keep on telling it.
00:34:12
Gentlemen, thank you so much.
00:34:13
Mark, thank you for joining us.
00:34:15
I'm sorry we had a bit of a tech issue at the top.
00:34:18
When we return, before Dallas and Lee Harvey Oswald, there was another secret plot to kill JFK.
00:34:25
Our next guest shares the untold story he's writing about in a new book.
00:34:29
Most people know President John F.
00:34:37
Kennedy's iconic inauguration speech where he famously called Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
00:34:48
But many may not be aware.
00:34:50
It came close to never happening at all.
00:34:52
Thanks to an unsuccessful assassination attempt, just one month earlier.
00:34:56
I want to welcome Brad Meltzer, who I became a super fan of because he gave what I think was the most extraordinary commencement speech at the University of Michigan.
00:35:05
But that is not why he's here tonight.
00:35:06
He is here because he is the author of the new book, the JFK Conspiracy, the secret plot to kill Kennedy.
00:35:13
And why it failed.
00:35:14
Brad, I am so honored to meet you.
00:35:17
I love the commencement speech and I love this book.
00:35:20
It couldn't come at a more important time when conspiracy theories that are rooted in nothing even close to the truth are making their way to the mainstream.
00:35:29
So I want to know the actual stories out there.
00:35:32
Tell us about this assassination attempt and how it got overlooked.
00:35:35
I never heard of it.
00:35:37
I appreciate Stephanie.
00:35:38
Yes, this is three years before Lee Harvey Oswald.
00:35:42
So it's a Sunday morning and JFK.
00:35:45
It's right after he's been elected and he's on his way to church.
00:35:48
And what he doesn't know is that there's a retired postal worker named Richard Pavlik, who is determined to kill him.
00:35:55
And he's packed his car with seven sticks of dynamite.
00:35:58
And Pavlik's actually followed him all the way to Palm Beach, Florida because he thinks JFK's security is weaker there, which he's right about also.
00:36:06
So as JFK leaves his house, all this assassin has to do is hit the little trigger mechanism.
00:36:12
He's built and boom, we'll go to the dynamite.
00:36:15
And I won't ruin what saves his life.
00:36:16
Obviously JFK lives that day, but it has to do with Jackie and it's the start of one of the craziest JFK stories you've never heard.
00:36:25
And why have we never heard of it?
00:36:27
That's the question, right?
00:36:28
And here's why.
00:36:29
It was a huge story in Florida, of course, but back then it took an extra day for things to go national.
00:36:35
And the dates about to go national, right?
00:36:37
The dates about to go national.
00:36:38
Two planes collide over New York City.
00:36:41
Everyone on board dies except for this one young boy, the sole survivor.
00:36:46
And America becomes obsessed with this boy.
00:36:49
And it knocks this JFK story off the front page into a footnotes of history until my friend Josh mentioned, I say, you know what?
00:36:56
This would be a really good idea for a book.
00:36:59
Well, it certainly is one.
00:37:01
And maybe they'll be more to come because President Trump has just recently ordered the declassification of the files on JFK's actual assassination.
00:37:11
What else is there to learn?
00:37:14
And how do you feel about the President making this move?
00:37:17
I'm sure you've got questions you want answer.
00:37:19
I'm a board member of the National Archives Foundation of Proud One.
00:37:24
And I can tell you, of course, we want to know what's in there.
00:37:26
Everyone wants to know what's in there.
00:37:27
It's a last 1%, 99% of the records of JFK have been released, 1% is left.
00:37:33
So what do you want to read?
00:37:34
99% or the 1%?
00:37:36
But what I think is going to be in there truthfully is going to be probably things that are, it's not going to be the smoking gun.
00:37:42
We lost that smoking gun when Jack Ruby pulled the trigger on the Harvey Oswald because that took away the one witness who knew exactly what happened, which was, of course, Oswald himself.
00:37:52
What I think we're going to see is we're going to see probably some sources, some military ways that we did things that we've been trying to keep quiet for years.
00:37:59
What I hope we see is potentially that did the CIA know what Lee Harvey Oswald was doing in Russia?
00:38:06
Were they tracking him?
00:38:07
I don't mean putting them up to it or that there's been some big conspiracy.
00:38:11
But was he on their radar and did they know about him?
00:38:14
Because obviously, how do you not know about a Marine who in the Cold War is going to Russia for weeks on end?
00:38:20
So you hope to see it.
00:38:20
You think it's a good idea to release it?
00:38:23
I think at this point, here's what I think is going to happen.
00:38:26
It almost doesn't matter because whatever comes out of it, half the country is going to go their line.
00:38:31
And the other half is going to go, I don't believe it, depending on what your politics are, because that's where we are now.
00:38:36
I mean, the sad part is we've reduced the truth.
00:38:39
We don't believe the truth anymore.
00:38:41
And that's what we have to fight for now.
00:38:43
And for me, you know, I think what you, listen, it shows like yours and telling people to their face.
00:38:50
Here's how I look at it.
00:38:52
You want to hear the truth about JFK?
00:38:53
Here it is.
00:38:54
If you want to know who killed JFK in the '60s, it was at the height of the Cold War.
00:38:58
Who'd we blame?
00:38:59
We said it was the Soviets did it.
00:39:00
Our enemies, it was the Cubans that did it.
00:39:03
If you look in the '70s, as Watergate happened, and distrust of the government went to all-time highs, who killed JFK?
00:39:09
Well, we said, now it's an inside job.
00:39:11
CIA did it, right?
00:39:12
LBJ did it.
00:39:13
In the '80s, the Godfather movies peak.
00:39:16
Who killed JFK?
00:39:17
It was the mob.
00:39:18
So if you want to know who killed JFK, it's decade by decade.
00:39:21
Whoever America's most afraid of at that moment in time.
00:39:24
And that's all the JFK's ever been to any of us.
00:39:28
It's a mirror, like any conspiracy, that holds up and shows us who we are.
00:39:31
You show me your favorite conspiracy?
00:39:33
And I'll show you who you are.
00:39:36
You know what, Brad?
00:39:37
You know when you're like a super fan of somebody, and then you meet them, and they're even better than you thought they would be?
00:39:42
I'm experiencing that right now.
00:39:45
So thank you so much for coming on.
00:39:46
I appreciate you, Stephanie.
00:39:48
Take care.
00:39:48
All right.
00:39:50
We're going to take a big deep breath for the next segment.
00:39:53
When we return, 80 years.
00:39:56
80 years after the liberation, Auschwitz survivors return to mark the somber anniversary that comes next.
00:40:04
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00:40:27
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00:40:30
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00:40:34
The last thing before we go tonight, Holocaust Remembrance Day.
00:40:44
As we mentioned earlier, today marks 80 years since the liberation of Auschwitz.
00:40:49
It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps during World War II.
00:40:53
NBC's Jesse Kirsch is with survivors who returned to mark the solemn anniversary and honor the roughly six million Jewish people who were murdered in the Holocaust.
00:41:04
The world may never see another moment like this.
00:41:08
Eyewitnesses to genocide, returning eight decades after they were liberated.
00:41:14
Eva Umlauf was too young to remember, but Nazi Germany's unspeakable horrors are embedded in her skin.
00:41:20
She was tattooed before her second birthday.
00:41:24
You are just a number.
00:41:27
But this number is not only on the skin.
00:41:32
This is deep.
00:41:34
Auschwitz was Hitler's largest extermination camp.
00:41:37
A place where roughly 1.1 million were killed.
00:41:41
For the rest, their humanity was stripped away.
00:41:44
Often you could see two people sleeping in just one of these beds on these very basic banks.
00:41:51
You could see 700 to 1,000 people crammed into one building.
00:41:56
Almost all of those murdered were Jews, most sent immediately to the gas chambers.
00:42:01
I held on tightly to my mother's hand in the dark kettle car for countless hours while the cries and the prayers of 70 disparate women permeated my soul and honed me to this day.
00:42:24
Tova Friedman arrives here when she was five.
00:42:27
At one point, her mother hid her among corpses, so she wouldn't be killed.
00:42:32
I recall thinking, I will never.
00:42:36
I will never let them know how much they are hurting me.
00:42:42
The Nazis tried to hide proof of their crimes, but the evidence is still here.
00:42:48
Piles of shoes, glasses, suitcases.
00:42:51
These survivors speaking at a time when anti-semitism is surging.
00:42:55
In 2018, 58% of Americans thought something like the Holocaust could happen again.
00:43:01
Today, 76% think it's a possibility.
00:43:05
We will never, never, ever allow history to repeat itself.
00:43:10
Jesse Kirch and B.C.
00:43:15
News, Berschenka Poland.
00:43:16
- Today's ceremony is likely the last major observance of Auschwitz's liberation with the survivor's present given their advanced ages.
00:43:26
As hard as it is, it is more important than ever to remember the horrors of the Holocaust so that it never, ever happens again.
00:43:37
And on that very solemn note, I wish you a very good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News.
00:43:43
Thanks for staying up late.
00:43:44
I'll see you at the end of tomorrow.
00:43:47
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00:43:49
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00:44:00
what will the first 100 days of the presidency bring?
00:44:03
Follow along as his agenda takes shape with the new MSNBC newsletter, Trump's first 100 days.
00:44:09
Weekly updates send straight to your inbox and expert inside on the key issues and figures defining this second term.
00:44:16
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00:44:20
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