Sean Illing talks with Noah Hawley, the creator and showrunner of the anthology drama Fargo on FX, as well as a celebrated novelist whose newest book is Anthem (2022). They discuss themes stemming from Hawley's recent piece in the Atlantic about myths, stories, and tropes from the Old West (and Hollywood) that are still powerful and active in shaping American society. Hawley also talks about why we're drawn to shows like Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, what to expect on the forthcoming fifth season of Fargo, and what his new novel says about the future.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Noah Hawley (@noahhawley), novelist; tv/film director

References: 

• 
  "It's High Noon in America" by Noah Hawley (The Atlantic; Dec. 19, 2022)


• 
  Anthem by Noah Hawley (Grand Central; 2022)


• 
  Slaughterhouse-Five, or, The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death by Kurt Vonnegut (1969)


• 
  "'Duck Dynasty' vs. 'Modern Family': 50 Maps of the U.S. Cultural Divide" by Josh Katz (New York Times; Dec. 27, 2016)


• 
  "The sex-trafficking investigation of Matt Gaetz, explained" by Amber Phillips (Washington Post; Jan. 27, 2022)


• 
  The Trial by Franz Kafka (1925)

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This episode was made by: 

• 
  Producer: Erikk Geannikis


• 
  Engineer: Patrick Boyd


• 
  Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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