In this episode, Nicole welcomes back her very first repeat guest (🥳), Cleoniki Kesidis, copywriter extraordinaire and fellow funnel-skeptic. The two dig into the uncomfortable origins and metaphors behind the word funnel, asking why such a common marketing term so often feels…well, kinda icky.

What starts as a conversation about email sequences and sales paths becomes a beautifully winding journey into ethical marketing, customer autonomy, and a whole lot of metaphors.

Let’s talk about the words we use in the marketing systems we build.

In this episode, you’ll discover…

• Why “funnel” might not be the best metaphor—and a few alternates
• What cows, tornadoes, and Temple Grandin have to do with marketing
• The overlooked power of sequencing and why your audience deserves an exit

• Why the best funnels feel more like ecosystems (and how to start designing yours)
• What to do if you find yourself IN a funnel as a business owner (which you will, like, all the time)

A few quotes:

• “It doesn’t feel like a friendly place to exist. It’s like you’re Dorothy and your house has been picked up and you’re being tossed around inside a tornado.”

• “You want the sand to leave. You’re not trying to catch everybody.”

• “When we talk about optimizing, it’s not about making every number as high as it can go.”

• “When you’re an entrepreneur, you are always in a funnel.”

Connect with Cleo:

• Grab Cleo's free resource: Everything You Need to Sell Your Evergreen Course Consistently at cekcopywriting.com
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis (she’s so good here)

Curious about ethical sales and lead magnets that don’t feel gross? Check out Nicole’s newsletter for prompts and ideas: nicolecopy.com/prompts