This Is How Democrats Win in Wisconsin
Digest
This episode of "The Ezra Klein Show" delves into the complex political landscape of Wisconsin, a state known for its political swinginess. The episode begins by discussing the recent political shift in the United States, particularly the Democrats' reaction to Joe Biden's decision to step aside and Kamala Harris becoming the presumptive nominee. The episode then explores the history of Wisconsin, highlighting its significance as a battleground in national elections. The episode analyzes the 2022 Senate race in Wisconsin between Mandela Barnes and Ron Johnson, focusing on the Republican campaign's use of racially coded attacks and the lessons Democrats can learn from Barnes's loss. The episode addresses the concerns some Democrats have about Kamala Harris's ability to win in Midwestern states due to her background, arguing that these concerns are unfounded. The episode examines early Republican attack ads targeting Kamala Harris, focusing on their attempts to tie her to Joe Biden's record and portray her as a radical liberal. The episode explores the recurring theme of "change elections" in recent American politics, arguing that Kamala Harris can effectively position herself as a change candidate in 2024. The episode discusses the selection of JD Vance as Donald Trump's running mate, highlighting the potential for Vance to become a target of Democratic attacks and the unusual level of attention he has received from political commentators. The episode explores the "grouper" wing of Trumpism, characterized by extreme right-wing ideology and a tendency towards hatred and fury. It argues that this wing of the party is unlikely to win a majority in the country. The episode discusses the virtues and vices of both the Democratic and Republican parties, highlighting the potential for smugness and condescension within the Democratic coalition and rage and contempt within the Republican coalition. The episode analyzes a clip of JD Vance attacking childless Democrats, arguing that his message is likely to be ineffective in Wisconsin and other states with diverse family structures. The episode explores the theory of "low information rationality" in political science, arguing that voters who don't pay close attention to politics still make rational decisions based on the information they have. The episode emphasizes the importance of abortion as a defining issue in the 2024 election, arguing that it has moved from a less salient issue to one that motivates voters and drives turnout. The episode identifies other key issues that resonate with swing voters, including the perception of politicians being on the side of the people or special interests, and the importance of democracy. The episode discusses the success of Senator Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin, highlighting her ability to connect with voters across the state and her strong record of standing up for regular folks. The episode explores the potential impact of the recent shift in sentiment around Kamala Harris on voter turnout and enthusiasm, arguing that it could benefit Democrats in the 2024 election. The episode emphasizes the importance of taking action in the 2024 election, urging listeners to get involved and avoid viewing the election as a spectator sport. The episode concludes with three book recommendations: "The Reasoning Voter" by Samuel Popkin, "Finding Freedom" by Ruby West Jackson and Walter McDonald, and "The Princess Bride" by William Goldman.
Outlines
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
The Power of Reinvention and the Political Landscape of Wisconsin
This episode of "The Ezra Klein Show" delves into the complex political landscape of Wisconsin, a state known for its political swinginess. The episode begins by discussing the recent political shift in the United States, particularly the Democrats' reaction to Joe Biden's decision to step aside and Kamala Harris becoming the presumptive nominee. The episode then explores the history of Wisconsin, highlighting its significance as a battleground in national elections.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Kamala Harris's Rise and the Democratic Party's Shift
The episode discusses the recent political shift in the United States, particularly the Democrats' reaction to Joe Biden's decision to step aside and Kamala Harris becoming the presumptive nominee. The episode highlights the enthusiasm and optimism surrounding Harris's candidacy.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Wisconsin: A State of Contradictions
The episode delves into the complex political landscape of Wisconsin, highlighting its history as a birthplace of both progressive movements and far-right ideologies. The episode explores the state's significance as a battleground in national elections.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Lessons from the Barnes-Johnson Race and Overcoming the "Whisper Campaign" Against Harris
The episode analyzes the 2022 Senate race in Wisconsin between Mandela Barnes and Ron Johnson, focusing on the Republican campaign's use of racially coded attacks and the lessons Democrats can learn from Barnes's loss. The episode addresses the concerns some Democrats have about Kamala Harris's ability to win in Midwestern states due to her background. It argues that these concerns are unfounded, citing Barack Obama's victories in Wisconsin and the close nature of recent elections in the state.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Early Republican Attacks on Harris and the Power of Change Candidates
The episode examines early Republican attack ads targeting Kamala Harris, focusing on their attempts to tie her to Joe Biden's record and portray her as a radical liberal. The episode explores the recurring theme of "change elections" in recent American politics, arguing that Kamala Harris can effectively position herself as a change candidate in 2024.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
The Significance of JD Vance as Trump's Running Mate and Trump's "Grouper" Wing
The episode discusses the selection of JD Vance as Donald Trump's running mate, highlighting the potential for Vance to become a target of Democratic attacks and the unusual level of attention he has received from political commentators. The episode explores the "grouper" wing of Trumpism, characterized by extreme right-wing ideology and a tendency towards hatred and fury. It argues that this wing of the party is unlikely to win a majority in the country.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
The Virtues and Vices of Political Coalitions and Winning Over Swing Voters
The episode discusses the virtues and vices of both the Democratic and Republican parties, highlighting the potential for smugness and condescension within the Democratic coalition and rage and contempt within the Republican coalition. The episode explores the theory of "low information rationality" in political science, arguing that voters who don't pay close attention to politics still make rational decisions based on the information they have.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Abortion as a Defining Issue in 2024 and Other Key Issues for Swing Voters
The episode emphasizes the importance of abortion as a defining issue in the 2024 election, arguing that it has moved from a less salient issue to one that motivates voters and drives turnout. The episode identifies other key issues that resonate with swing voters, including the perception of politicians being on the side of the people or special interests, and the importance of democracy.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Tammy Baldwin's Success in Wisconsin and the Shift in Turnout and Enthusiasm
The episode discusses the success of Senator Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin, highlighting her ability to connect with voters across the state and her strong record of standing up for regular folks. The episode explores the potential impact of the recent shift in sentiment around Kamala Harris on voter turnout and enthusiasm, arguing that it could benefit Democrats in the 2024 election.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
The Importance of Taking Action and Book Recommendations
The episode emphasizes the importance of taking action in the 2024 election, urging listeners to get involved and avoid viewing the election as a spectator sport. The episode concludes with three book recommendations: "The Reasoning Voter" by Samuel Popkin, "Finding Freedom" by Ruby West Jackson and Walter McDonald, and "The Princess Bride" by William Goldman.
Keywords
Kamala Harris
Kamala Harris is the current Vice President of the United States and the presumptive Democratic nominee for President in 2024. She is a former Senator from California and Attorney General of California.
Joe Biden
Joe Biden is the current President of the United States. He served as Vice President under Barack Obama from 2009 to 2017. He is a former Senator from Delaware.
Donald Trump
Donald Trump is a former President of the United States. He is a businessman and reality television personality. He is the Republican nominee for President in 2024.
Wisconsin
Wisconsin is a Midwestern state known for its political swinginess. It is a key battleground state in national elections.
JD Vance
JD Vance is the Republican nominee for Vice President in 2024. He is a venture capitalist and author of the book "Hillbilly Elegy."
Mandela Barnes
Mandela Barnes is a former Lieutenant Governor of Wisconsin. He is a liberal black Democrat who ran for the US Senate in 2022.
Ron Johnson
Ron Johnson is the current Republican Senator from Wisconsin. He is a businessman and a vocal supporter of Donald Trump.
Tammy Baldwin
Tammy Baldwin is the current Democratic Senator from Wisconsin. She is the first openly gay woman elected to the US Senate.
Built For Change
"Built For Change" is a podcast from Accenture that focuses on business leaders who have successfully reinvented themselves to thrive in turbulent times.
The Ezra Klein Show
"The Ezra Klein Show" is a podcast hosted by Ezra Klein, a columnist for The New York Times. The show covers a wide range of topics, including politics, economics, and culture.
Q&A
What are some of the key lessons Democrats can learn from the 2022 Senate race in Wisconsin between Mandela Barnes and Ron Johnson?
Democrats can learn that they need to be prepared to respond to racially coded attacks, that they need to effectively communicate their candidates' positions and stories, and that they need to be on offense as well as defense.
What are some of the key issues that resonate with swing voters in Wisconsin and other battleground states?
Swing voters are concerned about issues like the economy, healthcare, education, and the environment. They are also concerned about the direction of the country and the role of government in their lives.
What are some of the key factors that could influence voter turnout and enthusiasm in the 2024 election?
Voter turnout and enthusiasm could be influenced by factors such as the candidates, the issues, the state of the economy, and the level of political polarization.
What are some things that people who live outside of battleground states can do to help Democrats win the 2024 election?
People who live outside of battleground states can donate to campaigns, volunteer for campaigns, and encourage others to do the same. They can also move to a swing state.
What are some of the key takeaways from the episode about the political landscape in the United States?
The episode highlights the rapid pace of change in American politics, the importance of understanding the complex political cultures of different states, and the need for Democrats to be prepared to fight for their values and their vision for the future.
Show Notes
The Democratic Party’s rallying around Kamala Harris — the speed of it, the intensity, the joyfulness, the memes — has been head-spinning. Just a few weeks ago, she was widely seen in the party as a weak candidate and a risk to put on the top of the ticket. And while a lot of those concerns have dissipated, there’s one that still haunts a lot of Democrats: Can Harris win in Wisconsin?
Democrats are still traumatized by Hillary Clinton’s loss in Wisconsin in 2016. It is a must-win state for both parties this year. And while Democrats have been on a fair winning streak in the state, they lost a Senate race there in 2022 — a race with some striking parallels to this election — which has made some Democrats uneasy.
But Ben Wikler is unfazed. He’s chaired the Wisconsin Democratic Party since 2019 and knows what it takes for Democrats to win — and lose — in his state. In this conversation, he tells me what he learned from that loss two years ago, why he thinks Harris’s political profile will appeal to Wisconsin’s swing voters and how Trump’s selection of JD Vance as his running mate has changed the dynamics of the race in his state.
Mentioned:
“The Democratic Party Is Having an ‘Identity Crisis’” by Ezra Klein
Weekend Reading by Michael Podhorzer
Book Recommendations:
The Reasoning Voter by Samuel L. Popkin
Finding Freedom by Ruby West Jackson and Walter T. McDonald
The Princess Bride by William Goldman
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
The reservations people had about Kamala Harris were not based on her but on fear stories that arose in the wake of Hillary Clinton's 2016 loss. Since then it's felt like we have been trapped in a dark alternate timeline, and the sudden whoosh everyone experienced was a buried sense of hope bursting forth as Joe Biden stepping down made the seemingly impossible possible. It signaled that in times as strange as these, miracles can happen now.