(1:28 ) Mitch introduces Carlos Pardo of NUMO. (3:52 ) Carlos illuminates the modern history of "transportation avoidance" as an urban planning strategy. (6:26 ) We consider why transportation planners and mobility agencies refuse to acknowledge teletravel as a key component of TDM. (19:30 ) We debate the inherent value of travel as an instinctive and anthropological need, regardless of trip purpose. Carlos cites a study about soccer moms and the Marchetti constant. Mitch offers his hot take: transportation optimizes at zero. (30:42 ) Carlos speaks to the threats and opportunities transit systems are grappling with due to pandemic-induced confinement, and the potential future where social movement shifts from a pendular nature to a more chaotic one. (37:13 ) Carlos offers up the concept of a "mobility hub", the current focus of his work at NUMO.