What Pete Buttigieg Learned Playing JD Vance
10Digest
This podcast features a conversation between Ezra Klein and Pete Buttigieg, discussing the current state of American politics and the challenges facing the Democratic Party. Buttigieg argues that a feedback loop exists between public institutions failing to deliver and people becoming less willing to empower those institutions, contributing to the decline of trust in government and the Democratic Party. He also highlights the role of information and misinformation in eroding trust. The conversation then shifts to the Democratic Party's efforts to address issues like climate change, housing, and economic opportunity. Buttigieg emphasizes the need for the party to be more ambitious and empower local communities to solve problems. He criticizes the zero-sum economic theory promoted by Donald Trump and his allies, arguing for an "opportunity economy" that creates opportunities for all individuals to succeed. Finally, Klein and Buttigieg discuss the growing trend of isolationism within the Republican Party, particularly regarding Ukraine and Israel. Buttigieg argues that a commitment to democracy is essential for America's foreign policy, but that the party needs to articulate a clear vision for success in a world that is increasingly complex and uncertain.
Outlines
Trust, Policy, and the Democratic Party
Buttigieg discusses the decline of trust in government and the Democratic Party, highlighting a feedback loop between failing institutions and public disengagement. He also explores the role of information and misinformation in eroding trust.
The Democratic Party's Challenges in Building a Better Future
Klein and Buttigieg discuss the Democratic Party's efforts to address issues like climate change, housing, and economic opportunity. Buttigieg argues for a more ambitious approach and emphasizes empowering local communities. He criticizes the zero-sum economic theory and advocates for an "opportunity economy."
The Rise of Isolationism and the Future of American Foreign Policy
Klein and Buttigieg discuss the growing trend of isolationism within the Republican Party, particularly regarding Ukraine and Israel. Buttigieg emphasizes the importance of a commitment to democracy in American foreign policy and the need for a clear vision for success in a complex world.
Keywords
Policy Feedback Theory
A theory that suggests government policies can have unintended consequences that feed back into the political system, influencing future policy decisions.
Faux Populism
A political strategy that uses populist rhetoric but promotes policies that benefit the wealthy and powerful.
Crank Realignment
A political phenomenon where individuals with extreme views become more politically active and influential.
Opportunity Economy
An economic system that aims to create opportunities for all individuals to succeed, regardless of background.
Zero-Sum Economics
An economic theory that assumes a fixed amount of wealth or resources, where one person's gain comes at another's expense.
Isolationism
A foreign policy doctrine advocating for minimal involvement in international affairs.
Q&A
What are some of the reasons why trust in government and the Democratic Party has declined?
Buttigieg argues that a feedback loop exists between public institutions failing to deliver and people becoming less willing to empower those institutions. He also discusses the role of information and misinformation in eroding trust.
What are some of the challenges the Democratic Party faces in building a better future?
Klein and Buttigieg discuss the Democratic Party's efforts to address issues like climate change, housing, and economic opportunity. Buttigieg argues that the party needs to be more ambitious and willing to empower local communities to solve problems.
What is the significance of the growing trend of isolationism within the Republican Party?
Klein and Buttigieg discuss the growing trend of isolationism within the Republican Party, particularly regarding Ukraine and Israel. Buttigieg argues that a commitment to democracy is essential for America's foreign policy, but that the party needs to articulate a clear vision for success in a world that is increasingly complex and uncertain.
Show Notes
America has become increasingly polarized when it comes to trust. Voters who distrust the system — who see institutions as corrupt and are prone to conspiracy theories — have long existed on the far left and far right. But Donald Trump seems to have sparked a realignment, what the writer Matthew Yglesias calls “the crank realignment.” The G.O.P. is now the political home of the distrustful, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s Trump endorsement was a clear sign of these changing times.
In 2020, Pete Buttigieg wrote a book on trust in politics. And he’s been persistent in making the case — in speeches, on TV — for what he calls “a better kind of politics.” So I wanted to talk to him about his theory of politics. Why does he think so many Americans have lost trust in the government? What responsibility does the Democratic Party have here? And how does he believe trust can be restored?
Note: I invited Buttigieg on the show in his personal capacity so we could discuss his thoughts on the election without violating the Hatch Act, which prohibits members of the government from campaigning in their official guise. This also means I wasn't able to ask Buttigieg many questions about his work as transportation secretary. But I think we still had a pretty fascinating conversation.
Book Recommendations:
Morning and Evening by Jon Fosse
The Future Is History by Masha Gessen
Mr. Churchill in the White House by Robert Schmuhl
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jonah Kessel, Elliot DeBruyn and Selcuk Karaoglan.
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