There's a famous saying that you might've heard: that old habits die hard, and when it comes to the roles that we expect women to play, we haven't made much progress. This is particularly true when it comes to motherhood. So natural at motherhood women are, we say, that society makes it out as though not having children is the choice. Why don't you have kids? They ask those women without children. Why did you choose to have children? They rarely - if ever - ask those that are mothers.

And for a long time now, I've wanted to interview a woman without children. I wanted to know, what does the juggle look like when there's aging parents and siblings and nephews and nieces and self care and a demanding job? What forms does mothering take for someone that's not a mother in the technical term?

Cue Helen Lyon - the founder of Qiara Probiotics - the product that helps over 40,000 mums each year. While Helen has not had children of her own, she is entrenched in the work of motherhood on both a personal and professional level. Her family is everything, her work is all encompassing, so how, does she do it all? And how do mothers and non-mothers better support one another?

Here, we talk the many shades that mothering can take, what the juggle looks like when you're a sister, daughter, auntie, friend and business owner, and the business advice that's made Qiara into the brand it is today.

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Shop the Ready or Not Go To Guides now, for $29 each or $69 for the trio:

• Breastfeeding and Returning to Work
• Childcare 101
• Postpartum and Return to Work Planning

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This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

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