Young Donald Trump, Roy Cohn, and the Dark Arts of Power
1Digest
This podcast delves into the new film "The Apprentice," which explores the complex relationship between Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, a controversial lawyer who mentored Trump in his early career. The film aims to capture Trump's transformation from a young, ambitious developer to the figure he is today. The podcast examines the first meeting between Trump and Cohn, highlighting Cohn's combative legal style and his influence on Trump's approach to dealing with legal challenges. It also discusses the casting of Sebastian Stan as Donald Trump, highlighting his commitment to the role and his ability to capture the essence of Trump's personality. The podcast further explores the tragic arc of the relationship between Trump and Cohn, highlighting how their bond eventually soured as Trump became more successful. It discusses Trump's reaction to the film, including his campaign's threat of a lawsuit, and explores the film's potential impact on Trump's legacy. The podcast also examines the controversial rape scene in the film, which is based on statements made by Ivana Trump during their divorce proceedings. It explores the filmmakers' decision to include this scene and its potential impact on the film's reception. The podcast delves into the film's production process, including the challenges faced by the filmmakers in securing financing and distribution. It also highlights the film's long gestation period and discusses Hollywood's response to the film, highlighting the reluctance of major studios to distribute it due to concerns about potential legal action from Trump. The podcast concludes with a conversation with Jill Lepore, a staff writer for The New Yorker, about her favorite British police procedural shows and her thoughts on the British spy novel series "Slow Horses" by Mick Heron.
Outlines
Donald Trump and Roy Cohn: The Apprentice
This chapter explores the new film "The Apprentice," which examines the relationship between Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, a controversial lawyer who mentored Trump in his early career. The film aims to capture Trump's transformation from a young, ambitious developer to the figure he is today.
The First Meeting and Cohn's Influence
This chapter focuses on the first meeting between Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, as depicted in the film. The scene highlights Cohn's combative legal style and his influence on Trump's approach to dealing with legal challenges.
Casting Sebastian Stan and Capturing Trump's Essence
This chapter discusses the casting of Sebastian Stan as Donald Trump in the film. The chapter highlights Stan's commitment to the role and his ability to capture the essence of Trump's personality.
The Relationship Between Trump and Cohn: A Tragic Arc
This chapter delves into the relationship between Trump and Cohn, highlighting its tragic arc. Cohn mentored Trump in the early days of his career, but their relationship eventually soured as Trump became more successful.
Keywords
Roy Cohn
A controversial American lawyer known for his ruthless tactics and association with Senator Joe McCarthy during the Red Scare. He later became a powerful fixer in New York City, representing clients in the mob and high society.
Donald Trump
A prominent American businessman, television personality, and politician who served as the 45th president of the United States. He is known for his controversial statements and policies.
The Apprentice
A new film that explores the relationship between Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, focusing on Cohn's influence on Trump's early career and his transformation into the figure he is today.
Sebastian Stan
An American actor known for his roles in films and television series, including "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" and "Pam & Tommy." He portrays Donald Trump in the film "The Apprentice."
British Police Procedural
A genre of television drama that focuses on the investigation of crimes by police officers, often set in the United Kingdom.
Slow Horses
A British spy novel series by Mick Heron that follows the lives of failed spies who are relegated to a low-level unit known as "Slow Horses."
Q&A
What is the main focus of the film "The Apprentice"?
The film explores the relationship between Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, a controversial lawyer who mentored Trump in the early days of his career. It aims to capture Trump's transformation from a young, ambitious developer to the figure he is today.
How did Roy Cohn influence Donald Trump's approach to legal challenges?
Cohn taught Trump to be combative and to fight back against accusations, even if they were true. He encouraged Trump to create alternative narratives and to fight legal battles in the public eye.
Why was Sebastian Stan chosen to play Donald Trump in the film?
Stan was chosen for his fearlessness and his ability to capture the essence of Trump's personality. He spent years researching the role and developing a nuanced performance that goes beyond simply mimicking Trump's voice and mannerisms.
What is the tragic arc of the relationship between Trump and Cohn?
Cohn mentored Trump in the early days of his career, but their relationship eventually soured as Trump became more successful. Cohn was disgraced by the Army McCarthy hearings and was facing legal and health challenges when Trump became wealthy and famous.
Why did the filmmakers decide to include the rape scene in the film?
The scene is based on statements made by Ivana Trump during their divorce proceedings. The filmmakers felt that this scene was important to the film because it reflects Trump's history of alleged sexual misconduct and provides insight into his character.
Why did Hollywood studios initially refuse to distribute the film?
Studios were concerned about potential legal action from Trump and worried that he would use his power as president to punish their companies. This highlights the conservative nature of Hollywood as a corporate entity.
What are some of Jill Lepore's favorite British police procedural shows?
Lepore recommends "Anika," "Karen Pirie," and "Magpie Murders." She enjoys these shows for their dark humor, compelling characters, and unique settings.
What is the inspiration behind the "Slow Horses" series by Mick Heron?
Heron was inspired by his own experience working as a petty bureaucrat dealing with job dismissal cases. He wondered what would happen to failed spies who could not be simply dismissed due to their knowledge of classified information.
Show Notes
Actors and comedians have usually played Donald Trump as larger than life, almost as a cartoon. In the new film “The Apprentice,” Sebastian Stan doesn’t play for laughs. He stars as a very young Trump falling under the sway of Roy Cohn (played by Jeremy Strong)— the notorious, amoral lawyer and fixer. “Cohn took Donald Trump under his wing when Donald was a nobody from the outer boroughs,” the film’s writer and executive producer Gabriel Sherman tells David Remnick. He “taught him the dark arts of power brokering … [and] introduced him to New York society.” Sherman, a special correspondent at Vanity Fair, also chronicled Roger Ailes’s rise to power at Fox News in “The Loudest Voice in the Room.” Sherman insists, though, that the film is not anti-Trump—or not exactly. “The movie got cast into this political left-right schema, and it’s not that. It’s a humanist work of drama,” in which the protégé eventually betrays his mentor. It almost goes without saying that Donald Trump has threatened to sue the producers of the film, and the major Hollywood studios wouldn’t touch it. Sherman talks with Remnick about how the film, which opens October 11th, came to be.
Plus, Jill Lepore is a New Yorker staff writer, a professor of history at Harvard University, and the author of the best-seller “These Truths” as well as many other works of history. While her professional life is absorbed in the uniqueness of the American experience, she finds her relaxation across the pond, watching police procedurals from Britain. “There’s not a lot of gun action,” she notes, “not the same kind of swagger.” She talks with David Remnick about three favorites: “Annika” and “The Magpie Murders,” on PBS Masterpiece; and “Karen Pirie,” on BritBox. And Remnick can’t resist a digression to bring up their shared reverence for “Slow Horses,” a spy series on Apple TV+ that’s based on books by Mick Herron, whom Lepore profiled for The New Yorker.
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