Zac Clark Hates Fruit! Meth Scissors, Kratom Wars and MAT, Overcoming Trauma and Recovery for Fun and for Free and The Bachelorette Controversy
Digest
This podcast episode delves into various aspects of addiction and recovery, beginning with personal reflections on music and early addiction. Listener stories, like Wendy's harrowing experience with meth addiction, are shared, highlighting the psychological toll of substance abuse. The conversation touches upon the emergence of potent synthetic opioids like Nitazines and listener feedback on harm reduction and recovery journeys. The role of Kratom and its accessibility is discussed, alongside criticisms of public figures and alternative perspectives on its impact. The episode also features an in-depth interview with Zach Clark of Release Recovery, exploring their treatment philosophy, the challenges in behavioral healthcare, and the nuances of recovery coaching and 12-step programs. Zach shares his personal recovery story, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability, spiritual practice, and finding joy. The discussion extends to the Dopey Fitness Challenge, the use of Strava for community support, and debates surrounding Kratom versus medically assisted treatments like Suboxone. The episode advocates for diverse recovery paths, including MAT, and stresses the significance of gratitude, purpose, and community in maintaining sobriety. Finally, it touches upon the impact of social media, mental health awareness, and personal aspirations.
Outlines
Introduction, Listener Stories, and Addiction Discussions
The podcast opens with personal reflections on music and early addiction, followed by listener stories detailing experiences with meth and Kratom addiction. Discussions also cover potent synthetic opioids like Nitazines and critiques of public figures, emphasizing the diverse challenges within the recovery community.
Release Recovery: Philosophy and Services
An interview with Zach Clark of Release Recovery explores their comprehensive treatment approach, integrating 12-step principles with other therapeutic modalities. The discussion highlights the complexities of behavioral healthcare and the importance of client-centered recovery.
Navigating Recovery: Coaching, Sponsorship, and Treatment Approaches
This segment delves into the roles of recovery coaching, sponsorship, and the distinction between paid services and 12-step principles. It also examines the stigma associated with certain roles in rehab and compares the effectiveness of treatment versus 12-step programs.
Personal Growth, Fitness, and the Impact of Dopey
Zach discusses how hobbies like running became integral to his recovery and personal growth, leading to participation in marathons. The conversation touches on the impact of the Dopey podcast and the importance of sharing recovery stories to offer hope.
Pivotal Moments and Early Recovery
Zach recounts a life-saving intervention by a bank teller and reflects on his early days in recovery, emphasizing the importance of attending meetings and navigating life in New York City.
Vulnerability, Joy, and Spiritual Practice in Recovery
The discussion explores vulnerability in recovery, Zach's tendency towards honesty, and his journey to finding joy through continued work and evolving spiritual practices, including the "Onsite" workshop.
Family Dynamics, Therapy, and Competition
Zach shares insights into family dynamics and therapeutic approaches, discussing conversations with his parents about healing. The hosts also explore their experiences with therapy, relationships, and the role of competition in their lives and the Dopey community.
The Purpose of Sharing Recovery Stories and Community Support
The motivation behind sharing recovery stories is discussed, focusing on offering hope and an alternative way of life. The importance of rooting for others in recovery and experiencing joy through continued work is highlighted.
Fitness Challenges and Community Engagement
Dave announces his intention to run the New York City Marathon, and the Dopey Fitness Challenge is discussed, with advice for new runners and the introduction of Strava for community accountability.
Kratom, Suboxone, and Diverse Recovery Paths
The complexities of Kratom use and treatment are contrasted with Suboxone and MAT. The episode advocates for diverse recovery approaches, emphasizing that shaming any path is counterproductive and that recovery is individual.
Gratitude, Purpose, and Public Perception
The importance of practicing gratitude, finding purpose, and the dangers of idleness are discussed. The conversation also touches on the impact of social media, reality television, and mental health awareness.
Dreams, Aspirations, and Personal Challenges
Personal dreams and shifting aspirations are explored, moving towards finding purpose and helping others. A lighthearted discussion about reality TV and personal challenges, including a unique aversion to fruit, concludes the episode.
Keywords
Bob Dylan
An influential American singer-songwriter whose music often reflects social and political themes, impacting various genres and generations.
Heroin Addiction
A severe addiction to heroin, characterized by intense cravings, withdrawal, and significant negative consequences on physical, mental, and social well-being.
Kratom
A tropical tree native to Southeast Asia, its leaves have stimulant and pain-relieving properties. Used recreationally and for self-treatment of addiction, it carries risks of dependence and side effects.
Methamphetamine Psychosis
A severe mental state induced by methamphetamine use, characterized by paranoia, hallucinations, delusions, and aggressive behavior, requiring medical intervention.
Dopey Nation
The community of listeners and supporters of the Dopey podcast, fostering a shared identity and support network around addiction, recovery, and life experiences.
Release Recovery
A treatment center offering comprehensive care for addiction and mental health issues, providing residential and outpatient programs with a holistic approach.
12-Step Programs
Guiding principles for recovery, such as those in AA and NA, emphasizing mutual support and spiritual principles to achieve and maintain sobriety.
Onsite Workshop
A specialized workshop focused on personal growth and healing, involving intensive emotional work to help individuals understand their past and improve their present well-being.
Dopey Fitness Challenge
An initiative within the Dopey podcast community encouraging listeners to engage in physical fitness activities to promote accountability and a healthier lifestyle in recovery.
Strava
A social network platform for athletes used for tracking and sharing cycling and running activities, fostering community and accountability for fitness challenges.
Suboxone
A prescription medication used for opioid addiction treatment, combining buprenorphine and naloxone to reduce withdrawal symptoms and cravings under medical supervision.
MAT (Medication-Assisted Treatment)
An evidence-based approach combining medications with counseling and behavioral therapies to treat substance use disorders, aiming to reduce withdrawal, cravings, and improve functioning.
Harm Reduction
A public health philosophy and strategies aimed at reducing the negative consequences associated with substance use without necessarily requiring abstinence, focusing on safety and well-being.
Recovery Community
A network of individuals and groups supporting each other in recovery from addiction, providing a sense of belonging, shared experience, and mutual encouragement.
Gratitude Practice
A conscious effort to acknowledge and appreciate the good things in life, fostering a more positive outlook and well-being through journaling, meditation, or reflection.
Social Media Impact
The influence of social media platforms on individuals and society, affecting mental health, relationships, public perception, and the spread of information.
Mental Health Crisis
A situation of severe mental distress impairing an individual's ability to function, often requiring immediate professional intervention and ongoing support for recovery.
Q&A
What is the significance of the Bob Dylan song mentioned at the beginning of the podcast?
The song serves as a personal anchor for Dave, the host, evoking memories of a specific period in his life just before his heroin addiction became severe, highlighting the powerful connection between music and memory.
What is Wendy's story about her meth addiction?
Wendy recounts a terrifying experience where her meth addiction led to paranoia and destructive behavior, culminating in a confrontation with her husband and a near psychiatric commitment, illustrating the severe psychological impact of the drug.
What are Nitazines, and why are they mentioned?
Nitazines are a class of extremely potent synthetic opioids that are appearing in the illicit drug supply. They are mentioned in the context of listener feedback and concerns about new and dangerous substances in the drug market.
What is the Dopey Fitness Challenge?
The Dopey Fitness Challenge is an initiative within the Dopey podcast community that encourages listeners to participate in physical fitness activities to promote accountability and a healthier lifestyle as part of their recovery journey.
What is Zach Clark's role at Release Recovery?
Zach Clark is the owner and founder of Release Recovery, a treatment center that provides comprehensive care for individuals struggling with addiction and mental health issues, offering various levels of support.
What is the core philosophy behind Release Recovery's approach?
Release Recovery emphasizes a holistic approach to recovery, integrating 12-step principles with other therapeutic modalities like nutrition, movement, trauma work, and individual therapy to address the multifaceted nature of addiction.
What is the significance of the bank teller in Zach's recovery story?
The bank teller played a crucial role by showing compassion and contacting Zach's father instead of calling the police when he attempted to cash a stolen check. This act of kindness was a turning point that led him to seek treatment.
What is the "Onsite" workshop, and how did it impact Zach?
"Onsite" is a workshop focused on personal growth and healing, particularly "child of origin" work. It profoundly impacted Zach by helping him understand his family dynamics and find joy in his life and recovery.
What advice does Zach give to new runners?
Zach advises new runners to start slow, running just above a walking pace, and to focus on consistency rather than speed. He emphasizes that the journey is personal and about self-improvement.
How does Strava fit into the Dopey Fitness Challenge?
Strava is a social network app for athletes that will be used to create a Dopey Fitness Challenge group. This platform will allow participants to track and share their activities, fostering community and accountability.
What is the difference between Kratom and Suboxone, and what are the concerns surrounding Kratom use?
Kratom is a plant with opioid-like effects, often used for self-treatment but carrying risks of addiction and side effects. Suboxone is a medically supervised medication combining buprenorphine and naloxone, specifically designed to treat opioid addiction by reducing withdrawal and cravings. High-octane Kratom extracts are a growing concern for addiction specialists.
How does Medication-Assisted Treatment (MAT) work, and why is it sometimes controversial?
MAT combines medications like Suboxone with counseling and behavioral therapies to treat addiction. It aims to reduce withdrawal symptoms and cravings, allowing individuals to focus on recovery. Controversy often arises from differing views within the recovery community, with some favoring abstinence-only approaches and others embracing MAT as a life-saving tool.
What is the significance of community and purpose in recovery?
Community provides a sense of belonging and shared experience, crucial for overcoming isolation often associated with addiction. Purpose gives individuals a reason to stay sober and engaged in life, offering direction and motivation beyond simply abstaining from substances.
How does social media influence public perception and personal well-being, especially in the context of public figures?
Social media can amplify public scrutiny and judgment, particularly for individuals in the public eye. It can create pressure and impact mental health, making it challenging to navigate personal struggles while maintaining a public persona.
What are the different approaches to recovery from addiction?
Recovery approaches vary widely and include traditional 12-step programs, Medication-Assisted Treatment (MAT), harm reduction strategies, and other therapeutic modalities. The effectiveness of each approach can be individual, and there is ongoing discussion about which methods are most beneficial.
Show Notes
00:17 - 02:42
Dave opens with spring in New York, Bob Dylan, music memories, East Lansing, heroin memories, and asks listeners to send in songs tied to Dopey stories.
02:42 - 03:14
Heart Attack Doug update: he’s okay, resting at home, and showed up to the Wednesday Dopey recovery meeting.
03:14 - 05:04
Dave plugs Patreon, the Wednesday Zoom, and introduces Wendy’s email about old episodes, Ray stories, kratom withdrawal, and meth psychosis.
05:04 - 09:51
Wendy’s voicemail: a 2014 Southern California meth story about searching for hidden drugs, cutting the pockets out of every pair of jeans, unrolling toilet paper rolls, locking herself in the bathroom, and coming at her husband with scissors before being subdued with Xanax.
09:51 - 11:18
Dave reacts to Wendy’s story, talks about shameful reminders from using days, burnt clothes, cigarette holes, and holding onto old clothes.
11:18 - 20:59
Spotify comments from the Jana Wu kratom episode: people talk about kratom addiction, 7-OH, quitting with subs, gas station availability, nitazenes, and strong opinions about harm reduction and Tim Ryan.
20:59 - 28:00
Dave answers a comment about “unsung heroes” behind Dopey and gives a long inside-Dopey rundown of people who helped build the show over the years: OG Facebook people, merch people, Bob Forrest, Sam Clark, Amelia, Britta, Eric Papa Smurf, Ben, Melanie, Selby, Stephanie Roberts, Zoom hosts, Aaron Carr, Ray, Howie, Danny, Kira, Don, Lewis, and more.
28:00 - 28:34
Dave thanks the commenters, talks stickers, and introduces Zach Clark from Release Recovery.
28:34 - 30:03
Zach enters. Dave gives him a big intro: Release Recovery founder, Zach Clark Show host, Bachelorette winner, marathoner, stylish, fit, and longtime DopeyCon supporter.
30:03 - 31:06
They talk about DopeyCon, the church venue, the weird detox smell, and why Zach still kind of loves the chaos and wholesomeness of it.
31:06 - 34:10
How Zach knew Chris: Loft 107, Williamsburg recovery world, Joe Schrank, and Chris managing sober living while secretly relapsing on acid and ecstasy.
34:10 - 36:35
Discussion of clinicians relapsing, access to meds and drugs in recovery jobs, and how wild behavioral healthcare really is.
36:35 - 39:03
Zach talks about newcomers wanting to “work in recovery” and why working in treatment is not the same as having your own recovery. Meetings with clients do not count as your own meetings.
39:03 - 41:51
Dave asks about the blurred line between 12-step work and paid work. Zach explains sober companions, recovery coaching, and why clients need meetings without professionals hovering over them.
41:51 - 44:21
Treatment vs 12-step. Zach says treatment, therapy, nutrition, movement, trauma work, and recovery all matter. Dave asks about hobbies and Zach talks about starting to run in rehab when he was 250 pounds.
44:21 - 48:46
Dave praises Zach’s public speaking and asks about the famous bank teller story. Zach tells how a bank teller called his dad when he tried cashing a stolen check while strung out, which directly led to treatment and recovery.
48:46 - 50:28
Zach talks about moving to New York sober, learning the subway through meetings, and building a life through recovery.
50:28 - 54:40
Dave brings up Zach getting vulnerable at DopeyCon and going to Onsite afterward. Zach explains losing his joy, doing the one-on-one Onsite experience, and learning how much of him came from both parents.
54:40 - 56:58
Zach talks more about Onsite, family systems, wanting his family to go there, and how it gave him more understanding and closure.
56:58 - 58:49
Dave talks about his own therapy experience and asks about pettiness, competitiveness, and whether those traits are bad or just part of what drives people.
58:49 - 01:02:47
Dave gets into being socially competitive, artistically competitive, and wanting Dopey to be the best recovery show. Zach talks about rooting for others instead of rooting against them.
01:02:47 - 01:06:43
Zach says Onsite helped him find joy again, but only because he stayed in the work afterward with therapy and continued growth. Dave talks about the marathon, his wife mocking his Couch to 5K track record, and Zach says finishing the marathon could unlock something big for him.
01:06:43 - 01:10:12
Running talk: what Zach gets from running, how slow to start, training for time vs training for completion, and the idea that running is “me versus me.”
01:10:12 - 01:12:58
The Dopey Fitness Challenge gets a possible structure: a Dopey Nation Strava group where people can walk, run, bike, swim, or lift to stay accountable and connected.
01:12:58 - 01:18:10
Kratom and MAT discussion. Dave reads Kirby’s long email defending Suboxone as life-saving MAT. Zach gives a nuanced response: MAT can save lives, especially in long-term opioid addiction, but it should be medically supervised and part of a larger treatment plan.
01:18:10 - 01:24:54
Zach talks about medication-assisted treatment as one tool, not the whole solution. They move into gratitude, workaholism, idleness, and how Zach finds gratitude in simple connected moments.
01:24:54 - 01:29:12
Reality TV talk: the Bachelorette woman getting pulled, social media scrutiny, Zach’s own experience with sudden visibility, and the weirdness of being taken seriously after reality TV.
01:29:12 - 01:32:27
Dreams and future plans: Zach says he wants to make enough money to live freely, maybe coach sports later in life, and keep helping people find permission to live the way they actually want to live.
01:32:27 - 01:36:18
Survivor talk and fruit talk. Dave wants Zach to go on Survivor. Zach reveals he basically does not eat fruit, which shocks Dave.
01:36:18 - 01:38:27
Dave closes out: asks for emails and comments, talks Dopey Fitness Challenge updates, his own steps, pushups, sit-ups, Couch to 5K restart, diet slips, and plugs Dopeywood in LA with Bobby Lee, Marc Maron, Margaret Cho, Darrell Hammond, Zach Noe Towers, Ali Macofsky, and Sam Miller.
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