Music Therapy Conversations

Jessica Leza is a board-certified music therapist, author, and multimedia artist. She graduated with a Bachelor of Music in Music Composition from the University of North Texas and a Master of Arts in Music Therapy from Texas Woman’s University. Leza’s music therapy scholarship and advocacy centers around neurodiversity, disability justice, culture, and LGBTQ+ liberation and includes publications in The Neurodiversity Reader, Sociocultural Identities in Music Therapy, and The Oxford Handbook of Queer and Trans Music Therapy, as well as the solo-authored An Introduction to Neurodiversity and Autistic Culture for (Music) Therapists. Leza’s multimedia works have been showcased in film and arts festivals across the US and Europe, China, and South America. Luke and Jessica discussed her process of becoming a music therapist and her recent experiences of clinical practice, followed by the concepts of neuroqueering and neurocosmopolitanism as they might apply to music therapy. e-Book: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1492591757/an-introduction-to-neurodiversity-and Paperback: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1510338925/paperback-an-introduction-to https://jessicaleza.com/ References Hadley, S. 2021 Sociocultural Identities in Music Therapy. United States: Barcelona Publishers. Lee, C. 2024 Oxford Handbook of Queer and Trans Music Therapy. United Kingdom: Oxford University Press, USA. Leza, J. (n.d.). An Introduction to Neurodiversity and Autistic Culture for (Music) Therapists. United States: La Migdalia Press. Walker, N. (2021). Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities. United States: Autonomous Press.

Luke talks to Den Vecchio, a play therapist living and working in Bristol, UK. They discuss the principles of play therapy, why play therapy has become more available in mainstream schools in recent years, and overlaps with music therapy practice. Also - why every play therapist should have snakes, spiders and crocodiles in their collection! Den is a thoughtful practitioner and was a very entertaining and engaging podcast guest. As a music therapist, you're perhaps unlikely to have come across her, but don't let this discourage you from listening to this fascinating episode. There's lots of food for thought here, in particular for music therapists who work with children and young people. Den Vecchio's website: https://thegardenroombristol.com/author/denvecchio/ References Axline, V. M. (1975). Dibs: In search of self. Mansion.

Evelyn Mason is an experienced music therapist and Vice-Chancellor’s PhD Student at the Cambridge Institute for Music Therapy Research at Anglia Ruskin University (ARU) in Cambridge. Chroma Therapies and the Independent Neurorehabilitation Providers Alliance (INPA) are collaborating with ARU on this study which focuses on music therapy to address the emotional challenges of family caregivers of people with Huntington’s disease. As a practising clinician, she has specialisms in brain injury rehabilitation, adoption, dementia, learning disability and hospice care. Having completed her MA Music Therapy training at ARU in 2008, she worked for the Northern Ireland Music Therapy Trust in Belfast, with children with learning difficulties in Chennai, India, for Methodist Homes Association (MHA) in central England, for Chroma Therapies with individual adoption cases, and currently works with Chroma Therapies as a Neurologic Music Therapist at a brain injury rehabilitation unit in Bristol.  Evelyn employs an integrative approach in her clinical work. At times, she uses psychodynamic processes at the pre-assessment phase to understand relational or engagement issues with the client. Evelyn seeks to adopt a desire-based approach by putting the client’s choices at the core of the therapeutic journey. She works within the scientific theory model when carrying out her rehabilitation work, seeking to enable the client to benefit from inter-disciplinary working and patient-centred rather than discipline-centred programs.  Evelyn's future research interests are related to the field of neuro-disability. They include: Developing musical techniques to address neurologically-induced sensations. Examining music therapy techniques to address speech deficits in stroke patients diagnosed with aphasia. Analysing connections between social issues and acquired brain injury. Developing online music therapy models for carers of people with neurodegenerative conditions. References/links: The Academy of Neurologic Music Therapy – -In Memory of Robert F. Unkefer (nmtacademy.co) https://nmtacademy.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/nmt-definitions.pdf Bruscia, K.E. (2014) Defining music therapy. 3rd ed. Gilsum, NH: Barcelona Publishers. Rolvsjord, R. (2016) Resource-Oriented Perspectives in Music Therapy. Oxford University Press. Thaut, M. and Hœmberg, V. (2016) Handbook of neurologic music therapy. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Elaine is a BAMT registered clinical supervisor, and consultant lead visitor for the HCPC.  She studied piano and composition at GSMD, and trained as a music therapist with Dr Paul Nordoff and Dr Clive Robbins in London. After running the music therapy service at the CDC, Charing Cross Hospital for several years, and completing an MA research thesis in music therapy at the University of York, Elaine was appointed Senior Lecturer at the Roehampton Institute where she developed a new post-graduate course in Music Therapy. Her music therapy practice with children, young people, and adults ran alongside her lecturing work, She trained as a psychodynamic counsellor at the Westminster Pastoral Foundation and taught various aspects of music therapy at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama for many years, including clinical improvisation. Following a Churchill Research Fellowship in the 1980's, Elaine initiated,  developed and coordinated the BAMT (formerly APMT) post training supervision scheme for registered music therapists in the UK. She has an established supervision practice working with individual therapists and small group supervision for and supervisors working in the UK and abroad. Previous Roles Acting Head of Music Therapy, Guildhall School of Music and Drama, London. Visiting Professor of Music Therapy Guildhall School of Music and Drama, London. Senior Lecturer in Music Therapy, Clinical Tutor, and Clinical Music Improvisation Tutor, Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge. Head of Music Therapy Training, Senior Lecturer, University of Roehampton UK. Initiator and Coordinator of the Association of Professional Music Therapists* Post-Diploma Supervision Scheme, UK. Music Therapy Group Training Therapist for students studying for Masters in Music Therapy degrees at : Guildhall School of Music and Drama, the Nordoff Robbins Centre London, University of the West of England, and Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge. Music Therapy Charity Ph,D. Research Fellowship at the University of York. University of York PhD Research Fellowship in Music Therapy, Churchill Fellowship in Music Therapy. Clinical Music Improvisation Tutor, Nordoff Robbins Institute at Southlands College. Head Music Therapist, Child Development Centre, Paediatric Department, Charing Cross Hospital, London. References Streeter, E. et al: The Arts in Psychotherapy 39 (2012) 1–10 'Computer aided music therapy evaluation: Testing the Music Therapy Logbook prototype 1 system' Streeter, E. (2011) 'From Trainee to Practitioner: the supervision of registered music therapists' Chapter 13 in Karen D Goodman's 'Music Therapy Education and Training: from Theory to Practice' Charles C Thomas publisher USA ‘Streeter, E. (2010) ‘Computer-Aided Music Therapy Evaluation: Investigating and Testing the Music Therapy Logbook Prototype I’ Ph,D. Thesis (York) Streeter, E. (2006). What Are We Doing to Ourselves? The Branding of Music Therapy in Academia. In: Hadley, S. (Ed), Feminist Perspectives in Music Therapy. Gilsum, NH: Barcelona Publishers. p.359. Streeter, E. (2001). Making Music with the Young Child with Special Needs: A Guide for Parents. Revised Edition London: Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Streeter, E. (1999) Finding a balance between psychological thinking and musical awareness in music therapy theory — a psychoanalytic perspective. British Journal of Music Therapy  Streeter, E. (1999) Definition and Use of the Musical Transference Relationship. In: Wigram, T. & De Backer, J. (Eds), Clinical Applications of Music Therapy in Psychiatry. London: Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Chap.15, p.84-90. Streeter, E. (1981).Towards a Theoretical Understanding of Rhythmic Responses in Music Therapy. British Society of Music Therapy. Monograph. Available from: British Association of Music Therapy, UK. Streeter, E. (1979). A Theoretical Background to the Interpretation of Rhythmic Skills, with Particular Reference to the Use of Music Therapy as an Aid to the Clinical Assessment of Pre-School Children. MA Thesis. Department of Music, University of York.  

  Prof. Dr. Gitta Strehlow is Professor of Music Therapy at the University of Music and Drama Hamburg in Germany and a Music therapist at the Clinic for Psychiatry and Psychotherapy at the AGAPLESION Bethesda Hospital Hamburg-Bergedorf, Germany. Her research areas include: psychodynamic music therapy, trauma, psychiatry and mentalization. She undertook special education teacher training with music as a subject, University of Hamburg and Hamburg University of Music and Drama (1986-1994), field research in Indonesia exploring gamelan music (1994-1995). She was a teacher at a special school (1997-2000) before embarking on a diploma in music therapy at the University of Music and Theater Hamburg (1997-2000). Practical research: music therapy with sexually abused children and adolescents, Institute for Music Therapy at the University of Music and Theatre Hamburg (Prof. Dr. Decker-Voigt) in conjunction with the association Dunkelziffer e.V. (1997-2005). Self-employed there. Music therapist from 2005. Gitta has been a music therapist at the Clinic for Psychiatry and Psychotherapy at Bethesda Hospital Hamburg-Bergedorf (since 2000). Further training in psychodynamic-imaginative trauma therapy (2002). National and international lecturing and teaching activities (since 2004). Further training in Mentalization-Based-Treatment (MBT) with P. Fonagy and A. Bateman (2007). Her doctorate was entitled "Töne an der Grenze, Interaktionsmuster in der musiktherapeutischen Begegnung mit Patienteninnen, die unter einer Borderline-Pönlichkeitsstörung leiden" (“Tones on the borderline, interaction patterns in music therapy encounters with patients who suffer from borderline personality disorder“). She has also conducted post-doctoral research into Borderline personality disorder patients in music therapy in Belfast in 2015). She has held a part-time professorship "Psychoanalysis/Psychodynamic Theory and Practice" at the Institute for Music Therapy at the Hamburg University of Music and Drama since October 2019. Webpage: https://www.hfmt-hamburg.de/hochschule/organisation/personen/gitta-strehlow   PUBLICATIONS Strehlow, G. (2023 in press) Selected contemporary approaches to music therapy in psychiatry. Music & Medicine, Volume 15/ 4 Strehlow, G. (2023) Alliance Rupture in Musiktherapie In. Die Psychotherapie, 68/4, S. 289-295 Strehlow, G. (2023) Hamburg Institute for Music Therapy: A Model for free Improvisation within Psychodynamic Music Therapy. In:  K. Goodman (Ed.) Developing Issues in World Music Therapy Education and Training: A Plurality of Views. Charles C. Thomas. P. 49-71. Strehlow, G.  (2021) Trust development is essential in music therapy, Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, Vol. 30, No1,97-99. DOI: 10.1080/08098131.2020.1812272 Strehlow, G. (2021). Trauma, Mentalisierung und künstlerische Therapien, Band Trauma II, Forum für Kunsttherapien, Fachverband für Gestaltende Psychotherapie und Kunsttherapie, Schweiz (S. 13-18)  Strehlow, G. (2021). Stichwörter „Borderline-Persönlichkeitsstörung“ und „Mentalisierung“. In: H.-H. Decker-Voigt & E. Weymann (Hg): Lexikon Musiktherapie, 3. Auflage Göttingen u.a.: Hogrefe Verlag, S. 83-88; 340-346. Strehlow, G. & Spitzer C. (2020). Dissoziative Störungen. In U. Schmidt, T. Stegemann, C. Spitzer (Hg.): Musiktherapie bei psychiatrischen und psychosomatischen Störungen. München: Elsevier Urban & Fischer, S. 112-118 Strehlow, G. & Schmidt, U. (2020). Borderline-Persönlichkeitsstörungen. In: U. Schmidt, T. Stegemann, C. Spitzer (Hg.): Musiktherapie bei psychischen und psychosomatischen Störungen. Elsevier Urban & Fischer, S. 135-138 Strehlow, G. (2020). Musiktherapie mit Opfern sexueller Gewalt. In: A.Wölfl & S. Siebert (Hg.). Musiktherapie mit Opfern von Missbrauch und Gewalt. Wiesbaden: Reichert Verlag. S. 47-59 Strehlow, G. (2020). Traumata und deren Auswirkung. In: Spektrum der Musiktherapie. VdM (Verband deutscher Musikschulen). S. 84-86 Strehlow, G. (2019). How Neuro Research supports Music Therapy with Children who have experienced Sexual Abuse. In: Music Therapy Today, open access, music-therapy-today, special issue: Trauma. S. 59-77   (Mentalising) Strehlow, G. (2019): Musiktherapeutische Cochrane Studien im Bereich der Psychiatrie. In: GMS Journal of Arts Therapies – Journal of Art-, Music-, Dance-, Drama- and Poetry-Therapy. GMS J Art Ther 2019;1:Doc04 Strehlow, G. & Hannibal, N. (2019). Mentalizing in improvisational music therapy, In: Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 28:4, 333-346, DOI: 10.1080/08098131.2019.1574877 Keller, J.; Strehlow, G.; Wiesmüller, E.; Wolf, H.G. & Wölfl, A. (2018): Methodische Modifikationen für die musiktherapeutische Behandlung von Patientinnen mit Traumafolgestörungen. In: MU, 39(1), S. 12-22 Fenner, F.; Abdelazim, R.; Bräuninger I.; Strehlow, G. & Seifert, S. (2017): Provision of arts therapies for people with severe mental illness. In: Curr Opin Psychiatry, 30, 306 – 311 Strehlow, G. & Schmidt, U. (2017): Musiktherapie bei Patienten mit Borderline-Persönlichkeitsstörung. In PTT, Schattauer 2, S. 129-138.  Strehlow, G. (2016). Traumatische Erfahrungen und ihre Behandlungsmöglichkeiten in der Musiktherapie. Musik und Gesundheit, Hg. Decker-Voigt. Wiesbaden: Reichert Verlag. 30, S.14-18 Strehlow, G. & Lindner, R. (2016): Music therapy interaction patterns in relation to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) patients. In: Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 2, 134-158. Strehlow, G. & Schmidt, U. (2015). Musiktherapie bei Patienten mit Borderline-Persönlichkeitsstörung – ein Überblick. Musik und Gesundsein, Hg. Decker-Voigt, Wiesbaden: Reichert Verlag. S. 15-21. Strehlow, G. (2014): Förderung der Mentalisierungsfähigkeit in der Gruppenmusiktherapie. Hg. (DMtG) Jahrbuch Musiktherapie. Wiesbaden: Reichert, S. 197-214 Strehlow, G. (2013): Music versus shard. In: Metzner, S. (Ed.): Reflected Sounds. Case Studies from Music Therapy. E-book. Gießen: Psychosozial-Verlag. Übersetzung von 2007 Strehlow, G. (2013): Mentalisierung und ihr Bezug zur Musiktherapie. In: MU, 34(2), S. 135-145  Strehlow, G. (2012): Scham und Musiktherapie bezogen auf die Problematik des sexuellen Missbrauchs. In: MU, 33(3), S. 228-237. Monographie: Strehlow, G. (2011): Töne an der Grenze. Interaktionsmuster in der musiktherapeutischen Begegnung mit Patientinnen, die unter einer Borderline-Persönlichkeitsstörung leiden. Online Veröffentlichung der Dissertation: http://www.sub.uni-hamburg.de/opus/volltexte/2011/4968 Strehlow, G. (2009a): Mentalisierung und ihr Nutzen für die Musiktherapie. In: MU, 30(2), S.89-101. Strehlow, G. (2009b): The use of music therapy in treating sexually abused children. In: Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 18(2), S. 167–183.                  

Georgina Aasgaard Cellist and Music and Health Practitioner   Georgina Aasgaard is a Liverpool based Cellist and Music and Health practitioner who has a passion for bringing Music from the concert platform to challenging and more intimate environments. She has 20 years of experience delivering music interventions in a broad range of health and social settings such as hospitals, mental health units, prisons, homes for the elderly as well as community centres for refugees and the homeless. Her practice includes 15-year partnerships with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Mersey Care NHS Foundation Trust, Alder Hey NHS Foundation Trust and Live Music Now. She has also aworked for 10 years with DadaFest and Drake Music, engaging with people with disabilities through music making and technology . As a musician in residence, she has led innovative and groundbreaking programmes which include both one to one interaction on intensive care units and group work in mental health units. She has co-created recovery courses, co-produced performances, exploring skills such as improvisation, composition, songwriting, music technology, and including employability opportunities. Her activities have been measured through co-evaluation methods and continuous contact with patients and service users.  These collaborations have enabled her to draw on her experiences to create context specific training and mentoring programmes. She is currently developing a toolkit for musicians working in healthcare, informed by her collaborative work over the years and her research activities. Georgina was awarded a Pre-doctoral Local Authority Fellowship by the NIHR, as a  Director of Training and Development Research for Live Music Now, working in partnership with the University of Liverpool to investigate the influence of non-clinical music interventions on mental health.   She currently works in close collaboration with The Liverpool Centre for Health, Art, Society and Environment (CHASE) at the University of Liverpool aiming to foster critical inquiry, dialogue and creativity to build new knowledge about enabling creative communities through music collaboration and cross-sector partnerships. As part of this collaboration, she has been granted a new Community Innovation Practitioner (CIP) award funded by the AHRC to investigate how collaborations between academics and partners from across different sectors can work to benefit health and wellbeing.   Awards and Honorary Fellowship ·         05/07/2022: Festival of Learning Awards: Winner of the President’s Award. Music and Mental Health Programme at the Life Rooms, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, Lead musician ·         01/02/2021: Liverpool City Region Culture and Creativity Awards: Winner of the Impact Award on Health and Wellbeing Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, Lead Musician ·         01/05/2019: Winner of the Merseyside Woman of the Year in the category of Arts, Culture and Media ·         01/03/2016: NHS Award in Health and Care - Certificate of Recognition for Commitment to learning in Health and Care ·         01/09/2011: University of Liverpool Honorary Fellowship, Music and Wellbeing ·         01/09/2010: NHS Positive achievement Award in Mental Health    

Katie Bycroft is a musician, music therapist, supervisor and advocate for access to musical experiences for all. She trained at the Guildhall in 1998, having initially studied Oriental Studies (Japanese) at Cambridge University. Music was important from very early days, and she immersed herself in flute playing from the age of 8, taught by her flautist aunt. Music has always been a way for her to connect with people from other cultures, from youth orchestra and choir trips to Europe, to joining a folk music group in Japan as well as singing the Messiah in Japanese while living there in the 1990s. Her latest musical adventure has been to move to Malta to work for Villabianca Centre for Music and the Arts, a new music therapy project set up in 2021 by The Malta Trust Foundation. This unique opportunity to be involved in establishing a music therapy service where none existed before has been transformational in many ways, for many people. She continues to be active in the UK music therapy world, as Supervision Network co-ordinator for BAMT, clinical placement seminar leader at UWE, and working together with University of the West of England to establish a blended, distance-learning music therapy training for trainees based in Malta. Music therapy continues to bring welcome connections, with a visit during a recent trip to Australia to the Noro Music Therapy Centre just outside Sydney. She is also Director of the Oxford Flute Summer School which continues after 35 years to attract flautists from all over the world for a wonderful week of flute playing with like-minded people. Luke spoke to Katie in person, at University of the West of England, Bristol in August 2023.

Beth Pickard is a Senior Lecturer, Researcher and PhD Supervisor at the University of South Wales. Her music therapy teaching and practice is heavily informed by her research in Critical Disability Studies. Beth’s research explores how disability is socially constructed, interpreted and represented across disciplines and pedagogy. Beth is a passionate ally, activist and advocate of social justice and anti-oppressive practice. She is also currently a consultant for the National Music Service for Wales on developing access to musical opportunities for children and young people with additional learning needs, a researcher for Live Music Now across a range of projects informed by the Sounds of Intent framework and an evaluator for The Amber Trust's portfolio of inclusive music schemes. Beth is currently involved in a research project with Hilary Davies about the lived experiences of disabled music therapists in the UK, and with counselling psychologist Rachel Davies about service user engagement in curriculum development processes. Luke spoke to Beth in person at USW, Newport, in July 2023.  References Low, M. Y. et al., (2023), 'Exploring the Lived Experiences of Young Autistic Adults in Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy: An Interpretative Phenomenological Analysis', Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 32(4), p. 341-364. Pickard, B. (2022), ‘The Importance of Collaboration: Valuing the Expertise of Disabled People Through Social Confluence’ in King, H. (Ed), Developing Expertise for Teaching in Higher Education: Practical Ideas for Professional Learning and Development, SEDA / Routledge. pp. 69-84.https://doi.org/10.4324/9781003198772-7 Pickard, B. (2022), 'Anti-Oppressive Pedagogy as an Opportunity for Consciousness Raising in the Music Therapy Profession: A Critical Disability Studies Perspective', British Journal of Music Therapy, Special Issue: Equality, Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging. 36(1), p. 5-15. https://doi.org/10.1177/13594575221078582 Pickard, B. (2020), 'Challenging Deficit Based Discourse in Higher Education Through a Social Connection Model of Disability: A Critical Disability Studies Perspective', PhD by Portfolio, University of South Wales, Available at https://pure.southwales.ac.uk/en/studentTheses/challenging-deficit-based-discourse-in-higher-education-through-a Pickard, B. (2020), ‘A Critical Reflection on the HCPC Standards of Proficiency for Arts Therapists: A Critical Disability Studies Perspective’, British Journal of Music Therapy, 34(2), p. 82-94, https://doi.org/10.1177/1359457520971812 Young, I. M. (2006), ‘Responsibility and Global Justice: A Social Connection Model’, Social Philosophy and Policy, 23(1), p. 102-130.  Young, I. M. (1990), Justice and the Politics of Difference, New Jersey: Princeton University Press.  

Luke spoke to music therapist Alphonso Archer about his career in music, music education, music therapy, and football coaching. This has included big personal challenges, inspiring moments and the development of innovative and creative approaches.  Alphonso says: I spent over 25 years immersed in IT, Software, and Artificial Intelligence, building a career rooted in technological expertise. However, a personal diagnosis of prostate cancer and a brain arteriovenous malformation (AVM) in 2016 marked a pivotal moment, guiding me towards the world of music therapy. My transition was also profoundly influenced by my personal experiences. Growing up with a father diagnosed with schizophrenia offered me firsthand insights into the complexities of mental health. My academic exploration in this area led to a dissertation titled "Ambiguities in the Diagnosis of Schizophrenia Amongst Ethnic Minorities", shedding light on mental health nuances within the black community. I trained as a music therapist at the University of the West of England (UWE), graduating with distinction in 2022. As a newly qualified freelance music therapist, I work with neurodiverse children, particularly those with autism and other co-occurring conditions. My therapeutic approach also encompasses adults with autism and those managing mental health challenges. Collaborating with a cancer charity, I facilitate music therapy sessions tailored for those navigating the aftermath of a cancer diagnosis. I am publishing my master's dissertation, which centres on "How Black Men Use Music to Cope with the Psychosocial Symptoms of Their Prostate Cancer Post Treatment". This research underscores my interest and commitment to understanding the intricate connections between music, therapy, race, and health outcomes. At the 2022 European Music Therapy Conference, I had the opportunity to co-present with Dr Kate Jones, who introduced her music therapy toolkit designed for children with selective mutism. I was also involved in workshops and discussions surrounding race and belonging, social dreaming matrix and shared my thoughts on the future trajectory of the music therapy profession. Music has been a constant as a multi-instrumentalist, starting in church and rich experiences such as playing guitar in the Derbyshire Youth Jazz Orchestra to jazz piano lessons with composer and recitalist James Harpham. For over two decades, I have taught piano, guitar and bass, instruments that I've been connected to since my early years. You can contact me via my new website: www.livingwellthroughmusic.com Twitter: @AlphieArcher

In this episode, Luke talks to Hilary Davies, with a focus on music therapy and neurodiversity. Hilary Davies is a freelance music therapist currently specialising in working with autistic adults, including recently-diagnosed autistic adults and autistic adults with co-occurring conditions such as complex PTSD. She is also working towards a PhD on the topic of neurodiversity paradigm-informed music therapy practice with autistic people at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, funded by the Guildhall EDI in Music Therapy PhD Studentship. Hilary has also worked in a variety of other music therapy roles, including setting up and leading projects for Music Place North West (in hospice care) and Entelechy Arts. Hilary trained as a music therapist at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, graduating with distinction in 2019. She also studied Music at the University of Cambridge (Gonville and Caius College). Prior to training as a music therapist, Hilary worked as a music teacher and freelance performer for more than a decade. Alongside her research on music therapy with autistic people from a neurodiversity paradigm-perspective (a topic on which she has published as well as presenting at various conferences including BAMT 2021, European Music Therapy Conference 2022, World Music Therapy Congress 2023 and guest lecturing at various universities) Hilary has research interests in music therapy with adults with profound and multiple learning disabilities, and music therapy and disability studies, including the experience of disabled music therapists (she is currently involved in a Music Therapy Charity funded research project on this topic with Beth Pickard). She is the founder and co-ordinator of the BAMT Support Network for Disabled Music Therapists, and advocates in various ways for the increased inclusion and understanding of disabled people within the music therapy profession. Links Amanda Baggs - ‘In My Language’ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc  References Davies, H. (2022) “Autism is a way of being”: An Insider Perspective on Neurodiversity, music therapy and social justice” in British Journal of Music Therapy 36 (1). Devlin K (2018) “How do i see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study” in Music Therapy Perspectives 36(2). Harris, T. A. (2012). I'm OK, you're OK. Random House. Milton, D. (2012) “On the ontological status of autism: the ‘double empathy problem’” in Disability & Society 27 (6) Pickard B, Thompson G, Metell M, Roginsky E., Elefant C. (2020) “‘It’s Not What’s Done, But Why It’s Done’: Music therapists’ understanding of normalisation, maximisation and the neurodiversity movement” in Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy 20(3) Price, D (2022) Unmasking Autism: The Power of Embracing our Hidden Neurodiversity New York: Penguin Random House Singer, J (1998 / 2017) NeuroDiversity: The Birth of an Idea. Kindle Edition. Shiloh, C.J. & Blythe Lagasse, A. (2014) “Sensory Friendly Concerts: A community music therapy initiative to promote Neurodiversity” in International Journal of Community Music 7 (1) Walker, N. (2012) “Throw Away the Master’s Tools: Liberating Ourselves from the Pathology Paradigm” in  J. Bascom (ed.)Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking Washington: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network. Walker, N. (2021) Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities Fort Worth: Autonomous Press. Winter P (2012) Loud hands and loud voices. In: Bascom J (ed.) Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking. Washington, DC: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network.  

Luke spoke to the musician Robert Mitchell about his life as a creative artist and the importance of music and other arts to society and, more broadly, for humankind. Robert Mitchell is one of the most significant voices in British jazz. Multi-faceted creator, pianist, keyboardist, composer, improviser, writer, poet and so much more. He is a relentless seeker and thinker, encompassing many art forms, musical genres and constantly pushing the envelope. In the last year he has released the extremely contrasting albums “Hold The Light/The New Resistance' DOF004 (from his unit TRUE THINK) and 'Towards The Flame' 577 Records (from the improv trio The Flame). He has released 13 albums. Robert is a throwback to the powerful tradition of artistic mastery in pursuit of transcendence. He is proud to have been a Steinway artist since 2009. He was MD on the successful BBC4 television programme ‘Jazz 625 Live: For One Night Only’ which won the British Broadcasting Award. He has played with Billy Harper, Greg Osby, Courtney Pine CBE, Alicia Olatuja, Orphy Robinson, Steve Coleman, Phil Ranelin, Omar Puente, Ernesto Simpson, Daymé Arocena, Jason Rebello, Shirley Smart, Basement Jaxx, Dub Colossus, Daniel Casimir, Joshua Redman, Jacqui Dankworth MBE, and many others. Robert Mitchell’s works have been performed by the Grammy-winning Bournemouth Symphony Chorus and the London Sinfonietta, amongst others. He is a sought-for composer and known as an innovator with a distinct, unique voice. Robert has performed solo piano since the 90s. Recent concerts include Romania, Derby, Coventry, London with more on the way this year in Newcastle, Brighton and Bristol. His 2020 album The Rainbow Mountain/Can We Care' - was a near 40 min improvisation (completed with one of his original songs - live at the Jazz Cafe, London). Solo performances now include original music, Classical, Jazz, improvisations, left hand only, inside piano and poetry. He releases his second collection of poetry later this year - on Common Tone Press.   Robert is a Professor of Jazz Piano (Guildhall School Of Music And Drama), Piano Lecturer (Leeds Conservatoire) and Piano teacher at YMM.   https://robertmitchell.bandcamp.com/album/hold-the-light-the-new-resistance-dof0004 https://twitter.com/robertmitchellm https://www.instagram.com/robertmitchellmusic/

Luke spoke to Preet Kalsi about her musical upbringing, and her training and subsequent work as a music therapist. The conversation also explored the relationship between psychodynamic and indigenous perspectives in her work. Gurpreet Kaur Kalsi is from Sabah, Malaysian Borneo, and of Punjabi and Kadazan (Indigenous to Sabah) heritage. She is a music therapist and GIM therapist. She works with clients of all ages with psychiatric and medical conditions in healthcare, community, education, and corporate settings. Her work navigates psychodynamic approaches with culture and Indigenous concepts towards the dynamics of life and healing within oneself, the community, and the environment. She has recently begun incorporating EMDR with music therapy and GIM in the treatment of trauma.   Instruments referred to during the conversation https://youtu.be/BLFSV79KwnQ  - the knobbed gongs that are played communally. It accompanies the Sumazau dance at Pesta Magavau, the rice Harvest Festival in May, and at all social events and gatherings.  https://youtu.be/1yKZNKNZhrc - the sompoton. played by blowing and drawing air. https://youtu.be/kHj9Zrg_VxU - the tongkungon - a bamboo zither for playing the 'tagung' (gong) rhythm pattern. The strings are bamboo strips cut from the bamboo node.   References Colonialism and Music Therapy Interlocutors (CAMTI) Collective (2022) Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline. (2014). Balancing the Human and Spiritual Worlds:  Ritual, Music and Dance Among Dusunic Societies in Sabah.  Yearbook for Traditional Music, 46:172-192. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin & Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Symbolic Interactions between the Seen and the Unseen through Gong Music and Dance in the Lotud Mamahui Pogun.  Borneo Research Journal, 3:221-237. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin & Judeth John Baptist. (2009). A Conduit Between the Seen and Unseen:  Comparing the Ritual Roles of Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun of the Lotud of Tuaran and the Monogit of the Kadazan of Penampang, Sabah.  Tirai Panggung.  Jurnal Seni Persembahan, 9:98-123. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline & Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Music for Cleansing the Universe—Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun Ceremonies of the Lotud Dusun of Tuaran, Sabah, Malaysia.  Borneo Research Bulletin. 40:249-276.

This episode is Luke's conversation with Giorgos Tsiris, with a focus on spirituality and music therapy. Born and raised in Athens, Greece, Giorgos moved to London in 2007 for his music therapy training. For the past 14 years, he has worked as a music therapist in diverse palliative care contexts for adults with incurable illnesses, their families and their local communities. He has developed collaborative community and intergenerational projects disrupting societal assumptions about death and dying, and his work has received national awards and informed similar arts initiatives internationally. Alongside his practice, Giorgos has a multifaceted research portfolio with extensive experience in issues pertaining to service evaluation and professionalisation in music therapy and within the wider field of arts and health, and in 2014 he co-authored two books on service evaluation and research ethics respectively. His doctorate focused on spirituality and its place in music therapy. Through an ethnographic lens, his research has brought to the fore the ‘doing’ of spirituality, its messiness and its performance within everyday music therapy contexts. Giorgos is the founding editor of Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, and in 2022 he co-chaired the 12th European Music Therapy Conference. He currently serves as Senior Lecturer in Music Therapy at Queen Margaret University and the Arts Lead at St Columba’s Hospice Care, Edinburgh, Scotland.   References:   Bucar, L. (2022). Stealing my religion: Not just any cultural appropriation. Harvard University Press.   MacKian, S. (2012). Everyday spirituality: Social and spatial worlds of enchantment. Palgrave Macmillan.   Tsiris, G. (2017). Music therapy and spirituality: An international survey of music therapists’ perceptions. Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 26(4), 293-319. Tsiris, G. (2018). Performing spirituality in music therapy: Towards action, context and the everyday (Doctoral dissertation, Goldsmiths, University of London). https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/23037/ Tsiris, G. (2021). Tracing spirituality in everyday music therapy contexts: Methodological reflections. In K. Hendricks & J. Boyce-Tillman & (Eds.), Authentic connection: Music, spirituality and wellbeing (Chapter 10). Peter Lang.   Tsiris, G., & Ansdell, G. (2019). Exploring the spiritual in music. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 11(1), 3-8. https://approaches.gr/tsiris-e20191124/      

Episode 72 is Luke’s interview with Dr Dwight Turner. They spoke in December 2022, in person, about psychotherapy and music therapy, intersectionality, music, exotification, Our Price Records, and a dream involving John Lennon and David Bowie’s ‘Life on Mars’. Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice.  His latest book Intersections of Privilege and Otherness in Counselling and Psychotherapy was released in February 2021 and is published by Routledge. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website http://dwightturnercounselling.co.uk, where you can also find his blog, and he can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300 The blog post discussed at the beginning of the interview is here. References Czyzselska, J. (2022) Queering Psychotherapy. Karnac. Fanon, F. (2008). Black skin, white masks. Grove press. Turner, D. (2021). Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird. Routledge.

In episode 71, Davina Vencatasamy talks to Denise Wong. Originally from Hong Kong, Denise Wong MA BSc, is a self-employed music therapist (HCPC-Registered) based in Bristol, UK. She works with the Bath Aphasia Choir (Stroke Association), Soundwell and NEHK, a community-led group for and by HongKongers living in the UK. Denise appeared on the BAMT Racial Awareness Panel and took part in presentations and roundtables at the 2022 European Conference in Edinburgh. This interview covers intersectional experiences of racial stereotyping, sexism, ageism and ableism, including the word ‘yellow’ as a racial descriptor’, and what it feels like to be a therapist from a minority racial and cultural background, both when working with clients, and within teams of professionals.  Denise Wong (denisewongmusictherapy.co.uk)

Episode 70 is the fourth and final dispatch from the EMTC conference at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, June 2022 (see also episodes 63, 65 and 68). Luke had the opportunity to speak to a genuine music therapy pioneer in the person of Inge Nygaard Pedersen.  Inge Nygaard Pedersen is an Associate Professor, Emerita, PhD, Aalborg University, Denmark. She is the founder of the Aalborg Music Therapy Training Program and the Head of the Music Therapy Research Clinic at Aalborg University Hospital, Psychiatry 1995-2021. Her research areas include psychodynamic music therapy and psychiatry, supervision, and experiential/resonant learning processes for music therapy students (438 publications). For publications see https://vbn.aau.dk/da/publications/?search=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&originalSearch=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&pageSize=50&ordering=rating&descending=true&showAdvanced=false&allConcepts=true&inferConcepts=true&searchBy=PartOfNameOrTitle References Jacobsen, SL., Pedersen, IN & Bonde, LO (2019) A Comprehensive Guide to Music Therapy. Second Edition. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, INP., Lindvang, C & Beck, BD (2022) Resonant Learning in Music Therapy. A Training Model to Tune the Therapist. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, IN., Bonde, LO., Hannibal, N., Nielsen, J., Aagaard, J., Gold, C., Bertelsen, LR., Jensen, SB. & Nielsen, RE. (2021) Music Therapy vs. Music Listening for Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia: Randomized, Controlled, Assessor- and Patient-Blinded Trial. Frontiers in Psychiatry. Sec Psychiatry. 12, 738810 https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.738810

Davina Vencatasamy spoke to Revd Jide Macaulay about LGBTQ+, racial and intersectional issues in psychotherapy, music therapy, and society. Reverend Jide Macaulay (he/him/momma) is the Founder and CEO of House of Rainbow CIC. Openly gay British Nigerian born in London, he has been a Christian minister since 1998. He is an Anglican Priest and inspirational speaker, author, poet, pastor and preacher and an HIV Positive activist. Jide holds a degree in Law, master’s degree in Theology and Post-graduate certificate in Pastoral Theology. Revd Jide Macaulay focuses his ministry on inclusion and reconciliation of sexuality, spirituality, and human rights. He is also a former Board of Trustee at Kaleidoscope Trust UK. Currently Jide is a Chairperson at INERELA+ Europe, an international network of religious leaders, living with, or personally affected by HIV. Jide is a Patron at ReportOUT, Vice Chair One Voice Network, HIV mentor at Positive East, Nominee British LGBT Award 2021 - Top 10 Outstanding Contribution to LGBT+ Life,  nOSCARS Award winner 2014, 2017, 2018, Volunteer Chaplain at Mildmay HIV Hospital and Volunteer Champion at Africa Children's Charity.  "I will like see more unity and love within the LGBTIQ+ community, we must recognise that we are strengthened when we stand together against the sequence of hatred in this world, by doing so we make a difference across oceans and the sky is the limit for our desired change in this world." https://londonfriend.org.uk/50LGBTQLondoners/revd-jide-macaulay/ 

“We’re doing music therapy because of people’s humanity, not because of what people lack” Luke spoke to Hakeem Leonard at the EMTC conference, Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, in June 2022. Hakeem Leonard is an Associate Professor of Music Therapy and the Assistant Provost for Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity at Shenandoah University in Winchester, Virginia (United States). In his music therapy role, he has taught a range of courses, but most enjoys his social justice in music/arts and psychology of music courses, where the nexus of his current research focus lies in developing a desire-based, lifespan developmental framework to shape education, training, and personhood in and beyond music therapy. His published scholarship includes rehabilitation work as well as work rooted in anti-racist and culturally sustaining perspectives. Those include the article “The Problematic Conflation of Justice and Equality: The Case for Equity in Music Therapy” and his most recent co-authored chapter in the new Colonialism and Music Therapy text.  He has a passion for walking alongside students in their developmental growth process as culturally reflexive, confident, whole persons, with excellent music therapy knowledge and skills. He likes to stay grounded through various practices of listening and to experience joy through rest, creating things, and vibing with experiences and people. He is invested in conversations of anti-colonial and anti-oppressive practice from a place of intuition, desire, sustenance, love, wholeness, and relationship.  He is active on Instagram (@musicallman) where he shares about life, music therapy, and inclusion.  References Devlin, K. (2018). How do I see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study. Music Therapy Perspectives, 36(2), 234-242. Dissanayake, E. (1993). Homo aestheticus: Where art comes from and why. University of Washington Press. Du Bois, W. E. B. (1903). The souls of black folk. Chicago: McClurg. Fisher, C. & Leonard, H. (2022). Unsettling the classroom and the session: Anticolonial framing for Hip hop music therapy education and clinical work. In CAMTI Collective, Colonialism and music therapy (p. 305-334). Barcelona Publishers. Kenny, C. (2014, March). The field of play: An ecology of being in music therapy. In Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy, 14(1). The Colonialism, & Music Therapy Interlocutor’s (CAMTI) Collective. (2022). Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers. Trondalen, G. (2016). Relational music therapy: An intersubjective perspective. Barcelona Publishers. Persons Referenced Clifford K. Madsen http://www.cliffordmadsen.com Jayne Standley https://music.fsu.edu/person/jayne-standley/ Tom Sweitzer http://www.aplacetobeva.org/a-place-to-be-staff    

Davina Vencatasamy speaks to Penny Rogers, with a focus on safeguarding issues in music therapy. Penny Rogers studied cello with Bernard Gregor-Smith (Lindsay Strong Quartet) in Manchester before going on to complete a postgraduate diploma in Music Therapy at the Guildhall. As a therapist, she found the majority of individuals referred went on to disclose histories of child abuse and so her passion for safeguarding began. Since that time Penny has completed a variety of further trainings including Masters in Cognitive Neuropsychology, Child Protection & Working with Families, and Systemic Psychotherapy.  She was research fellow in MT at City University exploring the impact of music therapy on children and young people with histories of sexual abuse - resulting in a number of articles and chapters in books and lecturing opportunities in places as diverse as UK, Estonia, Vittoria, Philadelphia. Penny also has a PGDip in Mental Health Law and today works as a Deputy Director for Devon Partnership Trust with a portfolio including all aspects of safeguarding, mental health law and legislation. She continues to play the cello almost every day, and is a member of a number of local orchestras in Devon and a dedicated quartet enthusiast. Penny believes that safeguarding training is essential for all those working with children & adults. References Rogers, P. (1992). Issues in working with sexually abused clients in music therapy. Journal of British Music Therapy, 6(2), 5-15. Rogers, P. (2000). Truth or illusion: evidence-based practice in the real world. Music therapy research: Growing perspectives in theory and practice, 1. Rogers, P. (2003). Working with Jenny: Stories of gender, power and abuse. Psychodynamic music therapy: Case studies, 123-140.

Victoria Clarke is an Associate Professor in Qualitative and Critical Psychology at the University of the West of England (UWE), Bristol, UK, where she teaches about qualitative research methods and supervises student research on various postgraduate programmes. Her research interests lie in the intersecting areas of gender and sexuality, and difference and social justice. With Virginia Braun, she has developed a widely used approach to thematic analysis, now called reflexive thematic analysis (see thematicanalysis.net), and has written extensively about this, including most recently the book Thematic Analysis: A Practical Guide (SAGE, 2022). They have also co-authored an award-winning textbook on qualitative research: Successful Qualitative Research: A Practical Guide for Beginners (SAGE, 2013) and with Debra Gray co-edited Collecting Qualitative Data: A Practical Guide to Textual, Media and Virtual Techniques (Cambridge, 2017). With Virginia and others, Victoria has also written about the novel creative method of story completion (see storycompletion.net). She is active on Twitter – mainly tweeting about thematic analysis and qualitative research @drvicclarke.  References Azoulay, P., Fons-Rosen, C., & Graff Zivin, J. S. (2019). Does science advance one funeral at a time? American Economic Review, 109(8), 2889-2920. Goffman, E. (1955). On face-work: An analysis of ritual elements in social interaction. Psychiatry, 18(3), 213-231. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00332747.1955.11023008 Scully, D. (2013). Understanding sexual violence: A study of convicted rapists. Routledge. Willcox, R., Moller, N., & Clarke, V. (2019). Exploring attachment incoherence in bereaved families’ therapy narratives: An attachment theory-informed thematic analysis. The Family Journal, 27(3), 339-347.