Don't Be a Jerk at Work

There is a new phrase (well, not so new anymore) that is trending that we think is related to many of the conversations we have been having this season. And that phrase is, Quiet Quitting.  So of course, we had to weigh in too. Key Takeaways: It’s not a new concept but it’s a phrase that has caught on and has people talking…and that’s a good thing The conversation is drawing attention to the asymmetry and tension that is naturally built in to the employee/employer relationship It’s okay to take pressure off of ourselves to not be the “best” all of the time It seems like the onus now is on the employer to be way more conscientious about what they are asking people to do We wish that more employees felt comfortable and safe to have conversations about boundaries and burnout with their employers

We know that many people have made the big decision to change jobs over the past few years. And while making the decision to resign is often talked about as the hardest part of the process, we think that the experience of starting a new role can be just as hard. So, today we are digging into both scenarios with…Melissa Isaza!! Mel is the Director of People & Culture at Plenty of Fish. She is also a leader who is driven to create spaces where people can be themselves and be celebrated for being themselves. After six years at her former role, she made the decision to leave and try something new. Mel is still fresh in her new role, and, so far, so great! Key Takeaways:   Don’t get too caught up on the job title! Titles reflect different levels of accountability and scope at different organizations. Taking a title “drop” doesn’t always mean that you have taken a step back in your career. While it may sound simple, when you are considering a new opportunity, do a balance sheet! Does the excitement outweigh the fear? Not that there shouldn’t be any fear… :) Being uncomfortable and having some anxiety in your new role is totally okay! There is no way you should or could know everything you need to know. Be curious and learn about your new place of work – this is a chance to build new relationships, and build trust with and reliance on your new teammates.

While for some people the past couple of years has led to reflection and The Great Resignation, for others it meant really seriously considering leaving their current role, and then, after that great consideration, a decision to double-down and recommit!  And that scenario is what we are digging into today! We are very excited to welcome Harmony Cornwell to the podcast. Harmony is the director of property management with a private real estate company and she also happens to be an enthusiastic journaler! (This was very helpful to her process!) Oh, and Harmony and Sandy will now be best friends. I could be jealous…but I love them both too much! (PS Tara is writing this. Ha!) Key Takeaways: Beware the temptation of the quick fix! And a desire for change just because you feel like you need SOMETHING to change.  When you feel like you’ve lost a good balance, evaluate your fulfillment levels, and see if you can reset some work boundaries to create more balance, for yourself, your family, your friends, your passion projects… If you water your grass and take care of it, you might be fine where you are!

We’ve recently discussed the notion of The Great Regret, and the disappointing experience when you make the serious decision to leave your job for another opportunity, and then the other opportunity, well, doesn’t quite live up to your expectations. We are digging into that exact scenario today! We are very excited to welcome James Hughes to the podcast. James is the HCM Deployment Lead for Workday at Alight Solutions, and he joined us to share about his big decision to leave his job to explore something new…and then how he pretty quickly realized it wasn’t what he was looking for after all.   Key Takeaways: The shine of a big brand can be really alluring! Doing your research is still important. Before making a big move, one thing to assess is whether or not you really have the energy to start something fresh, build all new relationships, learn the new ropes, etc. It’s a lot of effort! Life is short. Find happiness if you can. And know that what makes you happy can really shift and change over the course of our career lives.

This time, we are talking about The Great…Reimagining!  Although Mary Houle’s biggest claim to fame is playing the BC basketball provincials in 1987 with the legend Tara Kemes (ha!), she managed to find further success in her almost 30 years working as a speech pathologist. But things weren’t always right in that world. After being gifted a new perspective on her work, she sees her professional self in a whole new light, one fully aligned with her values.  Her journey can provide lessons for anyone who has that unsettled feeling and is contemplating a change. Thank you for sharing your stories, Mary!  Key Takeaways: If you ever refer to any opportunity as “soul-sucking”, it probably isn’t the right path for you! We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: surround yourself with people who can give you a new perspective, who can ask you tough questions AND be your champions! In addition to Mary’s hoop skills, she was pretty talented on the typewriter. (Not that it actually got her the job she wanted!!)

Sandy and Tara talk about what employee “loyalty” means – today and in the past – and how it seems to be performing a disappearing act. So what’s next? How do employers (re?) engage that loyalty? Or, is that even a reality anymore? And if not…how do employers make themselves attractive to a workforce that no longer values an engraved gold watch? Key Takeaways: In the 20th century, employee loyalty seemed to be real! Was that because of a desire for/expectation of a clear career ladder and retirement security? Or maybe because there were fewer employment options back then? There has been a significant shift in the balance of power and employees are making it clear they want more influence over their lives and how work fits in. As an employer, it’s time to let go of the assumption of loyalty from your employees…and to become comfortable with the concept that you can’t be everything to all your employees. Stop trying to tick ALL the boxes! We reference the book, “Workquake,” by Steve Cadigan. It’s a timely read as it examines current workplace trends and our prevailing narratives about the employee-employer relationship.

In this episode, we get into the nitty gritty around what the resignation experience is like from both an employee and an employer perspective. Resigning can be really daunting! And empowering. And both parties, the employee/er, have the potential to behave like jerks. We talk about how to make it a less jerk-y experience. Key Takeaways: If possible, really make sure you are ready to quit your job and that it isn’t an emotional-in-the-heat-of-the-moment decision. As the employer, remember that this could be really scary for the employee! They are likely nervous and have been feeling anxious about coming to you. For both sides, stay respectful and be present in the moment. Because you never know…maybe you’ll want to work at that same place again! OR, maybe as the manager you would really like to recruit this person again! A terrible resignation experience could really damage those options.

We are super excited to speak with Haleigh about some major decisions she has made in her life, and what steps she took along the way. Haleigh is kind, thoughtful, intelligent, strong, and giving. She has MANY skills! One of which is her mind-blowing ability to balance in adversity. Thank you for joining us, Haleigh! Tech note: We had some audio issues in this episode. Thanks to Kylie for eliminating most of them! And thanks to listeners for being understanding! Key Takeaways: Making a huge decision will likely be uncomfortable – choosing ME can be really awkward and lead to a lot of trepidation. The struggle is REAL. When moving to something super new, it is super common to feel like more of a hindrance than a help. Be open and tell trusted people you are open to new opportunities! There are a lot of people out there who want to pay it forward. Also: Haleigh and Tara have a unique relationship: they collaborated as surrogates! A major life experience for both of them. Surrogacy sisters!

We were very happy to have Vince Sobrino as our guest. Vince was super candid and shared with us about how he made a massive career shift on just a bit of a whim and completely upended his life! And…he has no regrets. Key Takeaways: Stay open to, and actively solicit, ideas from others! Working together will always make the team stronger. When motivation seems tough, setting shorter term daily goals makes life more manageable. Also, remind yourself what inspired you to make this big move in the first place! For Vince that means keeping his eyes on the prize – the love and respect for his family.  Vince’s three favourite songs to hit to in his classes are: I Wanna Know by RL Grime Boom by Tiesto Stay for It by RL Grime Vince and Rumble Boxing:IG: @sobrino_v, @rumbleboxingWebsite: www.rumbleboxing.com

So just when many of us have accepted and gotten used to the phrase, The Great Resignation, another one has emerged, and that is, The Great Regret. What we are hearing is that a lot of people who participated in The Great Resignation are now experiencing feelings of regret – that new position they went to is a bit of a let down and not nearly as awesome as they thought it would be. Bummer. Intriguing? Confusing? Unexpected? We get into it! Key Takeaways: Wait. Wait. Wait. Are these really “great regrets”? Or are they doubts? It is pretty common to have doubts! If you are feeling doubts, gather your support people – your boosters! Remember what motivated you to make such a big decision in the first place. And slow down. If you are going to make any sort of “great” decision in life, it’s probably worth putting in the time to really think about it!

This season of DBAJAW was inspired by The Great Resignation so we thought we’d spend some time digging into what it is, how it has evolved, and what it means to us. Key Takeaways: The Great Resignation feels like too narrow of a phrase to capture the deep reflection and nuanced decision-making that many people are experiencing. We like The Great Re-ignition, Contemplation, and Reset. It can be scary to contemplate life and career changes. Many people have found reassurance in being part of a collective. This moment in time is an opportunity for employers to contemplate and reflect on the past few years – to make decisions about how they want to continue to operate and to get curious about what is now important to employees. It is also an invitation to employees to take stock of where they are at, what is important to them, and how they want to spend their time and energy.

This time, we talk about Tara’s very recent decision to quit her job and make a departure, after 20 years, from the animation industry. This is definitely a Great Resignation story, and we discuss how this is both simultaneously uncomfortable AND reassuring. As of the publish date, Tara is one week into the rest of her life! What’s next?? Key Takeaways: Sometimes the biggest A-HA moments come when we see ourselves reflected by the people around us. Our careers can be really impactful to our identities. When we are so often asked, “So, what do you do???” – Who are we without our careers? If you are thinking about an idea and want to see it become more real, consider talking about it with your people! Talking about it may create more accountability. Annnnnd, if you are making a big life-change decision, find your “boosters”!! And talk to them often. Also: Is a “retirement job” something that other people are planning on?? Asking for a friend…

In this episode, Sandy shares her great contemplation story and the “what’s next” moments that led to her decision to trade in full-time employment for self-employment. A breast cancer diagnosis was the catalyst for change but it was a series of intentional decisions and small steps that added up to one big decision. Key Takeaways: “What’s next” is a journey The fear of “what’s next” is real and never fully goes away Sandy’s go-to question for deciding what to say yes to -- will this energize me or will this diminish/deplete me?

In this episode, Sarah shares a couple of her own “what’s next” moments. The first came after losing her job in the first year of becoming a new mom. The second came when she had a conversation with someone about her writing, and was challenged to make a choice between identifying as a writer and committing to it...or not. Key Takeaways: A shitty situation or experience can help us get clear on who we are and what we want. How you see yourself shapes how you talk about yourself, and can push you forward or hold you back. Sometimes one question can shift our perspectives. Be curious! Thank you, Paul Heywood.

It’s 2022! What the heck!!? We've been away for…awhile. First, it was our usual summer break. Then, we determined we needed a bit more time off. Hello Covid fatigue. Simultaneously, we were generating ideas for what season 4 would look like and we had a plan… But, it just wasn’t clicking. We felt uninspired. Over 3 seasons, we had talked about a LOT of jerky, and non-jerky, workplace stuff. If we felt maxed out on workplace jerks, had DBAJAW run its course? And if not, what’s next?? Eureka!!! WHAT’S NEXT???? Everyone is feeling it.  We are inspired to explore this, because we KNOW it’s really sitting with people, and it is heavyyyyyy. And exciting! And scary. And freeing! And…let’s talk about it. Welcome to season 4!!!

We are at EPISODE 83! And, we are wrapping up the end of our fully remote season 3!  We recorded on June 21 and were 3 weeks into the announcement of BC’s restart plan. If our COVID numbers continue in the right direction, by the time we return in the fall, we will be back to recording in person AND many of us will be back to office life. Many people have described these COVID times as “a great pause” or “a great reset” -- an opportunity to reflect on what really matters to us. That got us thinking...after 15+ months working from home, what might office life be like in the “AFTER” times? Key Takeaways...for this unprecedented season: We are super grateful for technology that has allowed us to keep recording through the pandemic. Doing the podcast has been important for our mental health. We are super duper grateful that people have kept listening to us! Thank you. And we are extra super grateful for Kylie generously providing her editing skills each episode. We <3 Kylie! We’ll be back in the fall! Take care!

We’ve talked about it before during various conversations -- the state of the world and racism, sexism, homophobia, and all the awful actions being perpetrated against people for simply being who they are have resulted in more and more businesses and organizations making efforts for equity, diversity and inclusion.  This is important. And companies say it is important.  And yet, it is very common that the people IN CHARGE of the business are not showing up. For sure, they have lots of responsibilities and are busy. And yet, if equity, diversity and inclusion are that important...wouldn’t they make it a priority? So, the question is, are leaders who don’t show up jerks?? Or just really, really busy? Key Takeaways: Human resources can’t do this alone!  “Showing up” can mean a variety of things. Here are a few:  Attend the important workshop!  Be consistent with your values!  Beyond talking about it...take action! Leaders are going to make mistakes. Let’s give value to what they do AFTER they know they’ve made a mistake.  Bonus Takeaway: “It’s easier to solve a capacity problem than a jerk problem. ”Wise words, Sarah, wise words.

We’re back with the final Guardian episode for season 3! In the Guardian series, we’ve been focusing on the concerns and perspectives of future business and HR professionals.  This time, our Guardian is Laura Orban. Laura is a current business student at BCIT who has worked in a few fields and explored different education paths before pursuing business administration...and she has discovered she loves it! Over the course of the last couple of seasons of DBAJAW, we’ve talked about self-doubt quite a few times and how much it impacts us and our work. It can be a total jerk! Today, we’re revisiting that topic from the perspective of someone who is educating themselves to embark on a new career, and how pervasive self-doubt is when you are thinking about how to “sell yourself” and your past experience when applying for jobs in this new career space.  Key Takeaways: Think about the skills you’ve gained and how you can connect the dots for the interviewer/recruiter. Prepare in advance and anticipate how to create the links that will tell the story you want to tell and communicate them in a way that shows how transferable they are!  Don’t downplay your experience in the service industry. So many awesome skills are required in that setting...and are keenly transferable to so many environments. You’ll never have all the answers all of the time! It’s about how you would think about getting the answer. Resourcefulness for the WIN!!

Burnt out. Languishing. Unmotivated. Tired. Stuck. Many of us have had these general feelings of malaise over the past 15 months and lately...well lately, it seems even more acute.    A recurring theme that we’ve been hearing from leaders and HR professionals is that they are feeling helpless when it comes to the topic of employee burnout. They have been seeing employee burnout throughout the pandemic and supporting their teams and colleagues as best as they can. But, they are also experiencing burnout and that leaves them with a lot less capacity to lead and support others. And less capacity is typically a recipe for us inadvertently becoming jerks at work. So, what to do?? Key Takeaways: It is important to talk about this because it is real! Talking about it makes it more okay. All of us are responsible, regardless of job title, to take care and notice burnout, and that our colleague, our employee, may be languishing.  In spite of everything, acknowledge that work is STILL getting done! Amazing.

We’ve talked about imposter syndrome (aka newbie nerves, productive discomfort) and today we are talking about something a little different. While we have noticed that more women in leadership are feeling worthy AND welcome AND confident and not like imposters at all, we still self-edit our words and actions because we worry our confidence will be judged negatively. So in this episode, we consider the question: why do so many confident and successful women leaders worry that their confidence and success is making them look like jerks at work? Key Takeaways: There is a difference between confidence and arrogance. Adaptability is a valuable skill. At the same time, being too adaptable can lead to self-editing, being a chameleon, and a loss of self. Be brave! Be confident! And lift others up with you. *In this episode, we noted the work of leaders Rachel Cargle, Glennon Doyle, Liz Plank, and Tara’s pal Fiona Proctor. Thank you to all of them!