A Pastor and a Philosopher Walk into a Bar

Believe it or not, this is our 100th episode! And what better way to spend it than diving back in with Peter Rollins, a guest who is unusually suited to the regular themes of our show, while also throwing some wrenches into pretty much everything we do. :-)Picking up with where we left off in Part 1, we explore the sense in which Pete is a trinitarian Christian, some differences between Pete's and Kyle's philosophical approaches, the role of certain biblical themes in Pete's thought, his relationship to the historic Christian church, his beef with progressives, and a lot more. And we try really hard to get to the bottom of his whole negative theology thing.You can find the transcript for this episode here.The whiskey we taste in this episode is Barrell 15 Year Gray Label bourbon.Content note: This episode has some adult themes and mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Break out your dictionaries folks, this one got in the weeds a bit. But if you're familiar with Peter Rollins, you're probably not too surprised by that. Peter is a philosopher, public intellectual, and self-described anti-guru who writes and speaks extensively about concepts like the death of God, negative theology, "pyrotheology," and Atheism for Lent. He's been on our list to talk to since we started the podcast, and we're finally making it happen. And wouldn't you know it, we had so much to dig into that we had to talk to him again, so this will be a two-parter.Fair warning: Peter has some challenging things to say, pretty much regardless of where you land on the religious or political spectrum. His ideas are not easy to swallow or to understand, but we did our best to get to the bottom of some of them. And we had a great time doing it. Let us know what you think!You can find the transcript for this episode here.The bourbon we taste in this episode is Weller 12.Content note: This episode has some adult themes and mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Trey Ferguson of the New Living Treyslation and Three Black Men podcasts joins us to discuss his new book Theologizin' Bigger: Homilies on Living Freely and Loving Wholly. We talk about the Bible, the difference between "theologizin'" and theology, the racial dynamics of deconstruction, why evangelicals are so obsessed with "facts," why they're prone to grifters, white theology vs. Black theology, shame, heresy, Twitter (I refuse to call it X), and what "Michael vs. LeBron" has in common with theological frameworks. Trey is insightful, hilarious, gregarious, and humble. We hope you love this conversation as much as we did.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

In this episode, Kyle and Randy discuss the philosophy of the soul and its implications for religious belief, the lived experience of faith, and even ethics. Kyle is a materialist, which means he thinks humans are physical objects, and Randy leans towards dualism, which involves belief in a soul or non-physical part of a human being. Are there any good arguments either way? What do most philosophers think? What are the implications for religion? Does any of it matter? What does it have to do with Donald Trump? This one is definitely on the headier, more philosophical side, so strap in and try to check your assumptions at the door.The bourbon we tasted in this episode is the exquisite cinnamon bomb RD1 Brazilian amburana-finished straight bourbon.To skip to the interview, go to 8:40. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains some profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

... drinking.This is a more personal episode for us, particularly for Randy. As you know, we like alcohol around here, especially whiskey. In this episode, we chat about that and the presence it's had on our podcast and in our lives.Can we have a "healthy relationship" with alcohol? What does that look like? How does that question get answered for each of us in honest ways? How do we responsibly balance our autonomy with the example we want to set for others?Also, what kinds of conversations do we want to cultivate? (Hint: they're not necessarily churchy conversations or purely academic conversations, but conversations you might have in a bar.) What does this mean for the show going forward? And maybe most importantly, is there such a thing as a good mocktail?The NA spirits we mixed in this episode are Monday "whiskey" and Martini Rossi Vibrante.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains some mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

David Gushee is an influential Christian ethicist who famously changed his mind about LGBTQ Christians. His 2014 book Changing Our Mind (now in its third edition) has been celebrated and widely recommended as an honest and forceful reckoning with the ethical issues surrounding LGBTQ Christians and the church's complicity in their exclusion, neglect, and abuse. It is a powerful and well-researched chronicle of David's journey from a traditional stance to an inclusive one, a journey that he completed while remaining theologically conservative. We are honored that David agreed to speak with us about this important book, and we look forward to more conversations about his many others in the near future!The bourbon we tasted in this episode is Hardin's Creek Clermont.To skip to the interview, go to 11:32. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Philosopher Aaron Simmons joins us to discuss his new book Camping with Kierkegaard. It's all about living life in a way that is "worthy of your finitude," avoiding becoming an "asshole capitalist," and learning how to value the things in your life with the help of folks like Kierkegaard and Simone de Beauvoir. We discuss living faithfully, being present, living on purpose toward something you've chosen, and a lot more. There's a LOT to unpack in this one, and a couple interesting tangents that didn't make it into the final cut, so Patreon supporters, look out for those.The whiskey we tasted in this episode is the Fercullen Irish Whiskey Blend from Bardstown Bourbon Company.Content note: this episode contains some mild profanity. But it's philosophy, so it's fine.To skip the alcohol tasting, go to 6:46. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Where do we engage when we're done with evangelicalism, but we don't want to be done with the church? Thanks be to God, there are new signs of life springing up in the post-evangelical wasteland, and we're so here for it.Keri Ladouceur leads one of those hopeful spaces called the Post Evangelical Collective. Keri is the Executive Director of the PEC, has been leading in influential church spaces for years, and she has some stories to tell. Keri's journey is one that's been marked by abuse, patriarchy, and sexism, but also by healing, goodness, beauty, and so much redemption. We're so excited about the work she is doing with the Post Evangelical Collective and can't wait to share Keri and the PEC with you.The whiskey we tasted in this episode is Wild Turkey 101 12 Year Japanese Edition.To skip the alcohol tasting, go to the 8:35. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Cheers!=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

For New Year's, we're re-airing an episode from Season 1 in which we discuss God and love in the context of suffering, abuse, betrayal, and addiction with William Paul Young and Brad Jersak. It remains one of our most popular episodes to date, and we hope re-airing it will introduce it to new listeners. Enjoy! We'll be back on our regular schedule with new content on January 12.=====CONTENT NOTE: This episode contains references to trauma, abuse, suicide, and mental illness. Not recommended for children.On this episode, we're joined by William Paul Young (author of The Shack and Eve) and Brad Jersak (author of A More Christlike God and Her Gates Will Never Be Shut). We discuss their new co-authored novella, The Pastor: A Crisis, a raw story of a fundamentalist pastor undergoing the judgment of God. But our conversation is much more wide-ranging than just the book. We discuss what it means to say that God is love, the nature of forgiveness, the metaphor of Hell, and more.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Merry Christmas! Brian Zahnd is back on the show to discuss his Christmas devotional The Anticipated Christ. We talk about why he's "trying to be religious," the difference between Christmas and Advent, the book of Isaiah, the Magnificat, what nonviolence has to do with Advent, the current Israel–Hamas war, and more.We also spend a few minutes at the end just riffing on music. Why? Because Brian loves music and created an unconventional Advent playlist to go along with the book. And after our conversation, he created another one inspired by this episode! We strongly recommend rocking out to them while cooking Christmas dinner.Here's a couple more links to things mentioned in the episode:Eggnog recipeSpiritual, Not ReligiousThe beverage we taste in this episode is ... eggnog. With some Eagle Rare, if you're so inclined.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains some mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

This is such a rich conversation. Dr. Willie James Jennings is an incredible theologian who teaches Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale Divinity School. Dr. Jennings has written influential books like, The Christian Imagination: Theology and Origins of Race, After Whiteness: An Education in Belonging, and a groundbreaking commentary on the book of Acts, among a number of other books. Dr. Jennings is a treasure to the church and we loved chatting with him. We spoke about theology, race, whiteness, the book of Acts, LGBTQ+ inclusion and much more. Enjoy!The whiskey we tasted in this episode is Old Fitzgerald Bottle in Bond 16 Year. Good luck finding that.To skip the alcohol tasting, skip to the 8:10 mark. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

How do you process your identity and theology if you feel invisible as a person? What if your story, history, and experience are largely rejected and excluded from the culture you're a part of? How does that shape the way you see God and the world?Dr. Grace Ji-Sun Kim is a Korean-American theologian who works in liberation and feminist theology and wrote the book Invisible asking those questions from her perspective as an Asian American woman. In this conversation, we talk about identity, whiteness, white supremacy, and how the Holy Spirit and the Asian concept of chi might be interwoven. The bourbon we taste in this episode is a 1980 I.W. Harper.  But don't go looking for it, because it's, you know, 43 years old. To skip the tasting, go to 7:19. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Production note: Logic corrupted our files (thanks Apple), so we had to use Zoom audio this time. Apologies.PS: Kyle was dealing with some family stuff and unfortunately couldn't make it for this interview. He'll be back next episode.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Jeff joins us to ask some questions about evil and get into the philosophical weeds a bit. What is the connection between God's nature and suffering? Can we say that suffering is meaningless? What was up with Leibniz? And a lot more.If you'd like to ask a question about a recent episode to be featured on one of these bonus segments, email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com.Content note: this episode contains mild profanity and discussion of evil, suffering, and abuse.The transcript of this episode can be found here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

We discuss the history of evangelicalism with Isaac B. Sharp. Or rather, the alternative history of evangelicalism, for it differs in some significant ways from what you may have heard about how evangelicalism in America developed, and how most of us understand what it is today. Would it surprise you to learn there were once proud theologically liberal evangelicals? That there was a time when being evangelical did not obviously imply a conservative political stance or being white or straight? If so, Sharp's analysis in his book The Other Evangelicals will give helpful context to why that seems strange to us now (hint: it wasn't accidental).The bourbon we taste in this episode is George T. Stagg from Buffalo Trace Distillery. To skip the tasting, go to 8:09. You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

We wrap our discussion of evil and suffering with a look at some other sorts of responses to the problem and a reflection on where we land personally. If you haven't heard part 1, start there first.Due to the subject and the tone of this conversation, these episodes do not include a beverage tasting.Content note: this conversation includes discussion of evil and suffering and is probably not suitable for children. Though we try to avoid explicit extreme examples where possible, there is mention of specific instances of harm, including to children.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

How can people who believe in a good God account for the existence of pervasive suffering and evil? This is the oldest and most powerful objection to both belief in God's existence and religious practice, and it has been the subject of philosophical discussion and theological speculation spanning many religious traditions for thousands of years. We've run into it in several previous episodes and each time said we'd eventually focus on it. Here we are. This is part one of a two-part episode introducing the problem and some of the major responses to it (called theodicies), as well as how we think about it personally.Nothing we say here should be considered definitive or even very confident, and we're certainly not done talking about it. We're barely scratching the surface of an unimaginably vast complex of issues, and we approach it with fear and trembling. We hope that comes through in the discussion.Due to the subject and the tone of this conversation, these episodes do not include a beverage tasting.Content note: this conversation includes discussion of evil and suffering and is probably not suitable for children, though we make every effort to avoid explicit extreme examples where possible.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Elliot has a few more questions about AI following our conversation with Derek Schuurman. Is AI a Tower of Babel moment? Is there any real reason for concern? Will it go so great that it makes us all soft? If you could live forever, would you? What about the end of the world? Big questions! We do our best for answering on the fly. If you'd like to ask a question about a recent episode to be featured on one of these bonus segments, email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com.Content note: this episode contains profanity.The transcript of this episode can be found here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

The rise of artificial intelligence has happened at a startlingly rapid rate, and it seems like it's only accelerating by the month. Whether it's AI writing (plagiarizing) college papers and lazy pastors' sermons,  potentially curing horrific diseases, making fake humans, or taking over the world, we all have an endless amount of questions when it comes to what to expect from AI.Dr. Derek C. Schuurman is a computer science professor at Calvin University and has written extensively on the rise of AI and what a Christian's proper response to it might be. In this episode, we talk to Derek about all of those questions and more. Cheers!In this episode, we tasted Fortaleza Anejo Tequila. To skip the tasting, jump to 8:27.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Our friend Jeff Cook joins us for a new Q&A segment to reflect on our conversation with Rob Schenck (see parts 1 and 2 of that conversation here and here). This is our second installment of what will become a regular bonus segment with Jeff unpacking the content of certain episodes. You can hear the first installment, on LQBTQ affirmation and the church, at our Patreon (free for everyone!) here.If you'd like to ask a question about a recent episode to be featured on one of these bonus segments, email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com.Content note: this episode contains profanity.The transcript of this episode can be found here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

In the second part of our interview with Rob Schenck, a former Washington insider and heavy hitter in the evangelical pro-life lobbying industry, we discuss gun culture among American Christians and how asking questions about it ultimately cost him the organization he built and led for decades and led to him being ostracized by longtime friends and colleagues. Why are so many Christians so obsessed with guns to the point that they're unwilling to even question their centrality in their lives or their consistency with their stated pro-life convictions? Why are they seemingly unconcerned about the dangers guns pose or opposed to sensible gun legislation? How should we understand the soundbites that often get bandied about in these conversations? Rob patiently and powerfully takes us through his experience with these issues. We also discuss a bit of Dietrich Bonhoeffer's influence on Rob's trajectory.The beverage featured in this episode is Bowmore 18. Jump to 3:51 to skip the tasting.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: This episode contains discussion of gun violence.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!