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© 2024 Future of Work Hub Podcast Series
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Welcome to the Future of Work Hub’s In Conversation podcast. In this podcast series, Lucy Lewis will be hosting exclusive discussions with innovators, business leaders and thought leaders, to explore their perspective on the changing world of work. The global pandemic has accelerated longer term societal, economic, and technological trends, giving us a unique opportunity, a once in a generation challenge to rethink who, how, what and where we work.
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In the third episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2024 Lucy is joined by Ben Willmott, Head of Public Policy in the CIPD. The relationship between employer and employee is changing and the “social contract” is evolving. There’s a growing focus on ethical behaviour, on people’s individual needs and on “good work”. In this episode, Lucy and Ben explore what “good work” is and why it should matter to employers and their people. They consider the key drivers shaping the good work agenda and the role employers and the government have to play in promoting good work practices. Ben highlights the importance of people management skills in creating trust in the employment relationship to develop a productive, resilient and sustainable work culture. Key Takeaways:Good work is a shared agenda: Investing in good work practices is the responsibility of both employers and the government. Areas of recommended public policy reform include statutory sick pay reform, increased occupational health support for small businesses, and introducing skills or training levies. Start by investing in people management training: Day-to-day people management skills are fundamental to employees’ engagement and productivity in work.Incorporate the principles of good work into job design processes: By designing jobs that give employees flexibility, autonomy, purpose and challenge, this can both improve job quality, as well as supporting business performance and productivity.Flexible working arrangements should benefit the whole workforce, not just those who can work from home: Employers should consider putting in place flexible working arrangements that benefit all employees, including those who can’t work from home, for example term-time working, job shares, or compressed or annualised hours.
In the second episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2024 Lucy is joined by Avivah Wittenberg-Cox, CEO of 20-first, one of the world's leading global consultancies focused on balancing gender, generations and culture.Lucy and Avivah discuss some of the key demographic shifts impacting the labour market and explore why generational balance needs to be a business priority. Avivah explains the importance of longevity literacy amongst workforces and leadership teams, and how a deep understanding of people’s differences will be key to any diversity and inclusion strategy. Key Takeaways:Older workers as an answer to skills shortages: In a challenging labour market, employers may be able to leverage the skills and experience of existing older workers to fill skills gaps.Senior leadership teams must prioritise generational balance: The impact and success of a company’s longevity strategy will depend on the buy-in, involvement and longevity literacy of the executive leadership team.Start by measuring the demographics of your workplace: Use data to analyse the potential impact of an ageing workforce on the business in the next 5 to 10 years.Inclusion requires a deep understanding of where people are from: Instead of segmenting the workforce into identity groups, bring people together to discuss shared issues and define common goals, to increase compassion and understanding of differences.
In the first episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2024 Lucy is joined by fellow Lewis Silkin partner Naomi Hanrahan-Soar.Lucy and Naomi discuss the trends behind shifting migration patterns and what that means for the workplace. They explore how employers can harness the benefits of migration, while also addressing a range of challenges.Key takeaways:Brexit has had a significant influence on the type of migration to the UK: One impact of Brexit is an increase in migration from countries outside the EU and, potentially, those coming from further afield are likely to have a longer-term view of staying in the UK.COVID-19 has accelerated cross-border working: A rise in people requesting to work remotely from abroad is giving rise to numerous challenges from an immigration, employment law and tax perspective.Migration can address skills shortages: This is particularly the case given ageing populations and economies experiencing ongoing skills shortages. However, workforce strategies need to consider the cost of recruiting skilled workers from abroad and the opportunity to upskill and retrain existing workforces.More diversity leads to more creativity: Bringing different experiences, skills, perspectives and ways of thinking into an organisation increases the ability of the workforce to identify new opportunities and creative solutions.
Over the course of this year, we’ve hosted conversations with leading experts and thinkers to explore their perspectives on the future of work and consider the opportunities and challenges ahead for employers and their people as the world of work continues to evolve rapidly.In this final episode of 2023, our podcast host, Lucy Lewis, Employment Partner at Lewis Silkin, reflects on the conversations she has had this year and draws together a range of insightful perspectives shared by her guests.Lucy spotlights the key themes that emerged across her conversations - from the role of trust and employee voice in the workplace, to the four-day working week, the importance of organisational resilience, adapting to an ageing workforce, what the future of the platform economy looks like and the impact of automation and AI on jobs and workforce skills. At the end of each discussion, we asked each of our guests to share their thoughts on what is missing from the current conversation on the future of work. What is not getting enough attention? What are we not talking enough about? Tune in to hear what they had to say!
In the tenth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, partner at Lewis Silkin, speaks to Shruti Singh, Senior Economist at the OECD Directorate for Employment, Labour and Social Affairs.Lucy and Shruti discuss the impact of ageing populations on the world of work and how employers, governments and individuals can respond to demographic shifts and build productive intergenerational workforces.Key takeaways from the conversation:Ageing populations are a growing issue: Rapid population ageing due to increases in life expectancy and falling fertility is a key issue for businesses, policymakers and governments across the OECD. By 2050 the proportion of the population in OECD countries aged 65 and over is expected to increase to nearly 28%.Employers should focus on the employee life cycle: There is substantial individual variation in the support that is needed within age groups and at different life stages. Rather than looking at what certain generations might want, employers should focus on supporting a multigenerational workforce through the whole life cycle at work.Intergenerational workforces work: Employers that promote age inclusive workforces and successfully combine the talents and diverse outlooks of their employees, whatever their age, generally find that their workforce is enriched and more productive as a result.Employers can take steps to support older workers: An age inclusive organisational culture plays an important role in supporting longer working lives. To succeed, support must be integrated, taking into account job quality, health and flexibility. Line manager training is essential to embed these components into company culture.Skills are key: It is important that older workers continue to upgrade and expand their skills over their working life, particularly in light of continuing technological change. Mid-life career reviews, personal development plans and career conversations are increasingly used by employers.
In the ninth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, partner at Lewis Silkin LLP, is joined by Paul Miller, Chief Creative Officer and founder of the Digital Workplace Group. “We are living in a time which is no longer the industrial age, it’s not even the digital age; it is the living age.”Lucy and Paul discuss the need for organisational adaptiveness and resilience to better withstand and respond to the current disruption and pressure on business, and explore concepts from Paul’s book ‘Nature of Work: The New Story of Work for a Living Age’. In this book, Paul draws on patterns from the natural world to provide leaders with the language and questions to evolve their workplaces from organisations to organisms. Key takeaways from the conversation: Organisations are organisms: Companies seeking to build a sustainable organisation and to humanise workforce experiences can benefit from viewing their organisation as a dynamic and living thing rather than a rigid and industrialised structure. Corporate purpose is key: Companies must focus on taking corporate purpose from concept to practice and identify where they can have a direct impact at a local level. Leadership today is challenging: To succeed, leaders should consider adopting “servant leadership” and reflect on core values around meaning, purpose, empowerment and agility. Advances in generative AI are deeply significant: AI will change the way we work and raises important ethical and societal concerns. However, the current labour shortages experienced by many countries are likely to remain. We may need to rethink tax: As technology continues to significantly impact on jobs, debate is growing on the merits of an “AI tax”.
In the eighth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, partner at Lewis Silkin LLP is joined by fellow partner James Davies. What if these optimists have been seriously underestimating the pace and scale at which automation will replace and change the jobs of today in the second quarter of the century? What if the insipid productivity growth we have experienced over the last 10 years or so continues into the second quarter of the century? And what if we have too few workers with the skills needed for the occupations of tomorrow? Lucy and James discuss James’ upcoming report for the Future of Work Hub, and consider whether, despite current skills shortages, the future world of work in 2050 could feature too few jobs. Key takeaways from the conversation:We could see a future with too few jobs: there is a significant risk that the future of work could be characterised by too few jobs for the number of workers. Employers, policymakers and individuals must take steps now to prepare. Skills shortages will persist: employers, policymakers and educators must invest in developing the skills of the future. If workers do not have the skills needed for the occupations of tomorrow, we could see a future where high unemployment co-exists with significant skills shortages in some areas. The current tax regime is becoming untenable: as companies decide whether to automate jobs, we should reconsider how we tax employment so that there is less of a cost disparity between employing people and automation. Cross border competition for key skills will become more intense: employers will need to deliver on the values and priorities of workers, particularly younger generations, to attract and retain the best people. Technology and AI are not the only drivers of change: other drivers, such as demographics and geopolitics, could significantly impact the jobs market of the future.
In the seventh episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP is joined by fellow partners Colin Leckey and Tarun Tawakley. “There is the opportunity to be ahead of the regulators and not wait for the regulation to catch up with you but be the ones who are innovating and taking the lead when it comes to developing the models that are most attractive for the people who want to work with you.”As expectations around work continue to evolve, Colin and Tarun discuss the big questions surrounding the future of the platform economy, including opportunities to foster good work and the impact of regulation on the future landscape. Key takeaways from the conversation: Platform work has advantages: whilst there are well-publicised concerns that the platform economy could foster insecure work, it can provide individuals with genuine flexibility and enhance DE&I. Good work and platforms: platforms are starting to offer more benefits, perks and a sense of community, notwithstanding the current legal uncertainty and risk of reclassification from self-employed to worker. Regulators are playing catch up: achieving an appropriate balance between heavy and light touch regulation is very difficult, there is currently no consensus and approaches vary across the globe. Platforms have the opportunity to take the lead: platforms can be ahead of the regulators and be the ones who are innovating and leading when it comes to developing models that are attractive for those that want to work for them.
In the sixth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP speaks to Nimmi Patel, Head of Skills, Talent and Diversity at techUK and advisory board member of the Digital Futures at Work Research Centre. “The impact of generative AI is expected to vary from industry to industry and people have said it can cause significant disruption. But, email caused significant disruption, the printing press caused significant disruption, and I think we can handle it as long as we focus on people first solutions.”The launch of ChatGPT has reignited the debate about how advances in technology could reshape the world of work. In this podcast, Nimmi and Lucy explore the opportunities and challenges that automation and emerging AI technologies present and the extent to which these technologies can be leveraged to create good work and more diverse and inclusive workplaces. Key takeaways from the conversation: Jobs are at risk (but jobs will also be created): more than 6,000,000 people in the UK are employed in occupations that are likely to radically change or disappear entirely by 2030 due to technological progress and changing demographics. However, the adoption and use of AI will generate opportunities for the creation of new innovative jobs. Humans will work alongside tech: AI will not be able to replace human judgement and it is the responsibility of humans to decide how to teach it, deploy it and acquire the skills they need to thrive in the workplace of the future. Risks of algorithmic bias: while the risk of biases in AI are not new, generative AI’s ready accessibility to public data may magnify the risk. Maintaining trust in AI development will be essential and regulation will play a key role. AI can enhance DE&I: deploying AI in recruitment can mitigate biases in traditional decision-making and increase the pool of applicants. The metaverse presents opportunities: building the metaverse gives us the chance to better reflect our humanity and remove societal biases.
In the fifth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP speaks to Joe Ryle, Director at the 4 Day Week Campaign.“All these long working hours that we put in don’t really produce very good results but produce a lot of burnout, a lot of stress, a lot of overwork, a lot of unhappiness and, not only is that no way to live, it’s also no way to run an economy.”The UK’s four-day week trial has been hailed as a breakthrough moment for the move towards a four-day work week. Joe and Lucy explore what this means for employers and the future of work. They consider key learnings from the trial and address the most common concerns held by employers when considering moving to a four-day week. They also reflect on the important role government has to play in driving an economy-wide transition, and the potential for lasting legal and societal change. Key takeaways from the conversation: The UK’s four-day week trial was a success: the vast majority of companies (almost 95%) have decided to continue with a four-day week following the end of the trial. Introducing the four-day week benefits employers as well as employees: companies adopting the four-day week can benefit from higher employee retention, more motivated staff and increased revenues. Employers should avoid top-down implementation of the four-day week: organisations that empower their staff and consult with them in advance are more likely to succeed. The four-day week can drive wider cultural change: individuals can balance different aspects of their life, enabling men to take up a more equal share of caring responsibilities. The government has a key role to play: an economy-wide transition to a four-day week will require industry leaders, business leaders and trade union leaders to work with the government, supported by the introduction of new legislation.
In the fourth episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP speaks to Nita Clarke OBE. Nita is the Director of the Involvement and Participation Association, a leading organisation delivering employee engagement, partnership and employee voice in the workplace. “People want respect and fairness and to be listened to, and to have their diverse needs thought about. That operates in workplaces now in a way I genuinely don’t think it did a generation ago”.Nita and Lucy discuss the important role employee voice has to play in building organisational trust as well as the challenges and opportunities that the evolving landscape of collective and individual voice presents for employers. Key takeaways from the conversation: Unions are not the only mechanism for employee voice: works councils, employee forums as well as individual employee voice all have an important role to play. Assimilating different forms of employee voice can be challenging but extremely beneficial for employers. Employee voice must be informed: to get the most out of employee voice, employers must share strategic information with their workforce to empower them to engage in a more developed discussion. Trust is key: to succeed, employers must trust their staff and treat them as serious stakeholders in their organisation. Building a culture of trust and listening to employees also protects organisations from reputational risk.Employee engagement can benefit society: effective engagement strategies could help to solve the UK’s productivity puzzle by increasing performance and productivity. Management styles need to change: shifting generational attitudes and expectations at work mean that organisations taking a command and control management style will lose out.
In the third episode of our “In Conversation with...” podcast series for 2023, Lucy Lewis, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP, speaks to Philip Ross, Founder and CEO of UnGroup and Cordless Group and Jeremy Myerson, Director of WORKTECH Academy. Jeremy and Philip recently co-authored the book ‘Unworking: The Reinvention of the Modern Office’ and, in this episode, they share their insights into the future of the office. Philip and Jeremy consider the habits and rituals we will need to ‘unlearn’ in order to reimagine the workplace of the future, with a particular focus on rethinking both learning and leadership, as well as how to make the workplace as inclusive as possible. Key takeaways from the conversation: Leadership is being reimagined: Leadership will be less focussed on presenteeism and more focussed on outputs and purpose. Leaders must drive a sense of purpose and belonging, and organisations will need to rethink their physical spaces to align with this vision. Space will no longer define status: While workspace does not dictate culture, it reinforces and supports it. Organisations are moving away from the idea of modern efficiency – rectangular spaces in box-like buildings – towards more democratic spaces, such as circular and curvilinear spaces. Workplace experience is key: Companies need to take workplace experience seriously. Many are introducing workplace experience apps to enhance workplace experience and drive a sense of purpose and belonging. Office design should support diversity and inclusion: A diverse workforce has diverse needs, and employees may work best in different conditions and environments. To be truly inclusive, the workplace of the future must be heterogeneous and provide employees with genuine choice and variety. Organisations need to rethink learning: Hybrid working has resulted in a rapid shift away from the ‘eavesdropping’ model of learning, requiring companies to rethink their current practices and invest in new and emerging technologies.
In the second episode of our “In Conversation with…” podcast series for 2023, Partner Lucy Lewis speaks to Penelope Mantzaris, Senior Vice President at Edelman Data & Intelligence about trust and how it is evolving. “Trust is the foundation that allows an organisation to take responsible risk and to innovate and, if it makes mistakes, to rebound from them”.With the 2023 Edelman Trust Barometer hot off the press, Penelope and Lucy consider the role that trust has to play in an increasingly polarised society and what this means for employers. Key takeaways from the conversation: Factors such as distrust in the government, a lack of shared identity in communities and economic pessimism are leading to intense polarisation in society. However, trust in employers remains high. Trust is local. People trust those that they have real interactions with like their neighbours, co-workers and the CEO of their own employer. Consumers and employees are applying pressure to business, buying brands which match their values and choosing to work for companies that have a positive societal impact. CEO behaviour matters.To build trust, leaders must place their trust in employees first, provide information about contentious issues and make employees feel comfortable voicing their opinions. Businesses should use trusted voices at each level of the organisation, particularly if difficult decisions need to be taken. For more on this topic, visit the Future of Work Hub.
In the first episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2023, Lucy speaks to James Davies, Partner at Lewis Silkin LLP. James is a leading expert in employment law and speaks widely on issues relating to the future of work. He published his latest report on the future of work, “Eight drivers of change: 2022 and beyond” in November last year. In this episode, James and Lucy explore the impact generational attitudes, particularly those of younger generations, are having on work and society more broadly and how that will influence the world of work in the years ahead.Key takeaways from the conversation: Generational attitudes and values are having a profound impact on the world of workGenerational attitudes, particularly those of younger generations, are impacting employer decision-making around the world. Employers, particularly in the US, must consider their stance on social and political issues as part of their value proposition.Shifting generational values will lead to political changeShifting attitudes are predicted to drive significant political change in the UK which could, in turn, dramatically influence the employment landscape, including in areas such as tax, immigration and labour relations. Employers must act now to navigate the road ahead To attract and retain the best people, employers will need to look outside traditional demographic and geographic recruitment pools and review their recruitment models. Employers need to recognise the importance of connecting organisational and employee sense of purpose.Focus will shift to climate change and growing inequality Climate change and inequality are likely to emerge as dominant societal and business critical issues in the years ahead and garner the attention and action they deserve from society, governments and employers. You can read James’ report here.
In our 2022 ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series Lucy Lewis asked ten leading experts and thinkers to share their insights into what the future of work could hold.In this final episode of 2022, Lucy reflects on the conversations she has had this year and draws together many of the insightful perspectives shared by her guests.Lucy explores the key themes that emerged across her conversations. These touched on the role of trust in the workplace, the impact of shifting employee values across generations at work, the Great Resignation and the employee value proposition, the significant challenges of building skills for the future, and the continuing importance of diversity and inclusion.Importantly Lucy considers what we’ve learned from these insights and explores what action we, collectively and as individuals, need to take as societies and businesses adjust to the rapidly changing world. Finally, Lucy reflects on some of the fascinating responses she received to the question we asked all of our podcast guests this year: ‘If you had the power to ensure one change for the workplace of 2032, what would this be?’ Tune in to hear what they had to say!
In the tenth episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2022, Partner Lucy Lewis speaks to Elizabeth Bieniek, Director of Innovation at Cisco and an internal start-up founder. Elizabeth’s particular focus is on the interface between people and emerging technology, developing technologies that will help build a bridge between our experiences today and the experiences that might be possible as technology advances. In this fascinating discussion, Elizabeth and Lucy consider how technology can be used to build trust and a sense of belonging to make hybrid and remote working more ‘human’. Elizabeth explains the important focus that is needed on the underlying human motivations driving societal trends when anticipating future technology that will successfully enable human interaction when people can’t be together physically. Finally, with growing discussion on the impact of the metaverse and other emerging technologies on work, Elizabeth lays to rest any confusion we might have had about the differences between augmented and virtual reality and their role in the future world of work.
In the ninth episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2022, Lucy speaks to Ritu Mohanka, Managing Director and Head of EMEA at Syndio, a leading workplace equity platform. In this episode, Ritu shares her fascinating insights into how data can be used to drive workplace and pay equity and how businesses are responding to increasing pressure from stakeholders, employees and legislators to address systematic bias in the workplace. Ritu discusses the important role that communication and transparency have to play in building and creating high workplace trust and considers some of the key factors driving the creation of pay gaps, including the ‘opportunity gap’. She goes on to explain why data driven decision-making is one of the most important components for future strategic decisions, pushing it to the top of HR’s agenda.Turning to intersectionality, Ritu explores how this poses particular challenges when assessing and tackling pay gaps and illustrates the different approaches employers are taking to address these. Finally, Ritu and Lucy discuss the role that pay transparency legislation has to play in driving change, and how multi-national companies can navigate their global obligations from a cultural and regulatory perspective.
In the eighth episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2022, Lucy speaks to Dr Grace Lordan, an Associate Professor at the London School of Economics and the Founding Director of The Inclusion Initiative which supports firms to build more inclusive workplace cultures. Dr Lordan discusses the importance of leveraging under-represented talent in the workplace and the practical steps that businesses can take, particularly in light of the challenges presented by hybrid working. She questions the concept of the four-day work week, arguing that employers could instead increase productivity by reducing presenteeism and offering greater flexibility. Moving on to technology, Dr Lordan touches on her recent research which finds that AI is actually less biased than humans when used in recruitment, and discusses the value AI can bring to employers. She also considers her research findings on automation, including the prospect of widening inequalities, and reflects on how the skills agenda needs to shift to accommodate the changing needs of businesses.”
In the seventh episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2022, Lucy Lewis speaks to Harriet Molyneaux, Managing Director at HSM Advisory.As a future of work expert, Harriet shares her practical expertise on the big future of work trends of the moment. Harriet explores how organisations can embrace hybrid working to create sustainable high performance environments with productive and happy employees before turning to how employee voice can be harnessed as a check and balance mechanism for organisations. Moving onto demographics, Harriet explains how the three stage life of education, work and retirement isn’t fit for purpose in technical high speed change environments, suggesting that it might be time to retire the word ‘retirement’. Finally, Harriet concludes with her thoughts on what the future holds for HR and how HR professionals need to evolve.
In the sixth episode of our ‘In Conversation with…’ podcast series for 2022, Lucy Lewis speaks to David Liddle, founder and CEO of TCM Group and best selling author.David is passionate about reforming organisational culture and HR conflict resolution processes, believing we need to move away from the retributive systems of blame, shame and punishment within workplaces. David explains how managing conflict needs to become a strategic priority, with dialogue having primacy rather than retribution. Ultimately, HR will need to decide if they want to focus on people, culture and values or simply governance, rules and processes. David finishes by talking about the clear business benefits of shifting to a people centred, purpose led and values based leadership system. After listening to David’s conversation, you won’t feel the same way about the grievance process found in every employee handbook.
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