Psychology & The Cross

The Secret of the Golden Flower is a Taoist text on inner alchemy that landed in Jung's hands in the late 1920s. It was the sinologist and Christian missionary in China, Richard Wilhelm who sent the text to Jung for a commentary. It's hard to overestimate the importance this text had on Jung and his work. Reading this text made him abandon his work on the Red Book and shift his focus outside to the comparative studies of the individuation process. Especially interesting for this podcast is that it's in Jung's commentary of the text that he most clearly outlines his rendering of the Imitatio Christi. I invited Jason Smith, host of the podcast Digital Jung, and author of Religious But Not Religious: Living a Symbolic Life, back to the podcast to discuss this important work of literature, Jung's comments on it, and what we can learn from it today. Music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: "Hard Sell" by Ketsa.

Hans Trüb is one of the unsung heroes of the early movement of Analytical Psychology. He was a pioneer of relational psychoanalysis or intersubjective psychotherapy years before any such terms were coined. Trüb (which means 'cloudy' or ‘gloomy’ in German) had a personal friendship and later conflict with Jung and an ongoing correspondence with philosopher Martin Buber. Trüb's psychological theory is an attempt of synthesising Analytical Psychology with Buber's dialogue-based philosophy. His vision was an analysis at eye level, a powershift between analyst and analysand, as well as an analysis as focused on the inner as the outer world. I invited my favorite scholar Paul Bishop again to the podcast to help shed some light on Trüb's thinking, his contributions, and their importance for us today. The music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - No light without darkness, Aimless and Mind 2.

In this episode, I speak to Jonah C. Evans about the ideas of Austrian social reformer, architect, and Christian esotericist Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925) and how they relate to Jung's psychology. Jonah is a priest and director of the seminary of the Christian Community in North America based in Toronto. The Christian Community is an international Christian movement inspired by Rudolf Steiner and still very active today. The music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Mind 2

In our third season of Secular Christ with Sean J. McGrath we go searching for the seeds of Secular Christianity. The series will go live in early 2024.

In this episode, I speak to Pia Chaudhari about her book Dynamis of Healing: Patristic Theology and the Psyche published by Fordham University Press. Pia holds a doctorate in theology from the Department of Psychiatry & Religion at Union Theological Seminary in New York. Her research interests include theological anthropology, depth psychology, processes of healing, and the engagement with aestetics and beauty. She is a founding co-chair of the Analytical Psychology and Orthodox Christianity Consultation (APOCC). Thank you for listening in on our conversation. The music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Dawn’s Dew.

A letter from Carl Gustav Jung to Sabina Spielrein (1885-1942), 4th of December 1908.My Dear,I regret so much; I regret my weakness and curse the fate that is threatening me. I fear for my work, for my life's task, for all the lofty perspectives that are being revealed to me by this new Weltanschauung as It evolves. How shall I with my sensitive soul, free myself from all these questions? You will laugh when I tell you that recently earlier surfacing, from a time (3-4 year) when I often hurt myself badly, and when, for example, I was once only just rescued from certain death by a maid. « My mind is torn to its very depths. I, who had to be a tower of strength for many weak people, am the weakest of all. Will you forgive me for being as I am? For offending you by being like this, and forgetting my duties as a doctor towards you? Will you understand that I am one of the weakest and most unstable of human beings? And will you never take revenge on me for that, either in words, or in thoughts or feelings? I am looking for someone who understands how to love, without punishing the other person, imprisoning him or sucking him dry; I am seeking this as yet unrealized person who will manage to separate love from social advantage and disadvantage, so that love may always be an end in itself, and not just a means to an end. It is my misfortune that I can not live without the joy of love, of tempestuous, ever-changing love. This daemon stands as an unholy contradiction to my compassion and my sensitivity. When love for a woman awakens within me, the first thing I feel is regret, pity for the poor woman who dreams of eternal faithfulness and other impossibilities, and is destined for a painful awakening out of all these dreams. Therefore if one is already married it is better to engage in this lie and do penance for it immediately than to repeat the experiment again and again, lying repeatedly, and repeatedly disappointing." What on earth is to be done for the best?I do not know and dare not say, because I do not know what you will make of my words and feelings. Since the last upset I have completely lost my sense of security with regard to you. That weighs heavily on me. You must clear up this uncertainty once and for all. I should like to talk to you again at greater length. For example, I could speak with you next Tuesday morning between 9.15 and 12.00. Since you are perhaps less inhibited in your apartment, I am willing to come to you. Should Tuesday morning not suit you, write and tell me, otherwise I will come in the hope of getting some clarity. I should like definite assurances so that my mind can be at rest over your intentions. Otherwise my work suffers, and that seems to me more important than the passing problems and sufferings of the present. Give me back now something of the love and patience and unselfishness which I was able to give you at the time of your illness. Now am ill...

In this episode, I am joined by Sarah Larkin to discuss the life and work of Christian depth psychologist Fritz Künkel (1889-1956). Sarah has a background in religious studies and a Master's in Theology. She is a poet and has created an online archive of Künkels writing online accessible on fritzkunkel.comKünkel was a giant in psychology in the 1920s and 1930s corresponded with Jung and studied under Alfred Adler. He lived in Berlin but emigrated to California in 1939 and developed a religiously informed depth psychology that he named “We-Psychology”.  Künkel's psychology differs from C.G Jung’s in its broader emphasis on the concept of individuation and by emphasizing the importance of the collective. He also corrects Jung on matters related to evil. In my opinion, Künkel has a lot to offer depth psychology as it helps to bridge the “me” with the “we”, individuation with a social conscience, and a Christian vision for the world.If you want to go deeper into Künkel the place to start is John A. Sanford’s book Fritz Kunkel: Selected WritingsThe music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Between Each.

In this episode, I speak with Martin Liebscher from the Philemon Foundation. Martin is a Research Fellow in the German Department and an Honorary Senior Lecturer at the Centre for the History of Psychological Disciplines at University College London. We discuss the recently published book by Philemon, "Jung on Ignatius of Loyola's Spiritual Exercises," which includes lectures that Jung delivered at ETH in Zurich between June 1939 and November 1940.Martin begins by contextualizing these lectures in Jung's life and theory-building and gives an overview of Jung's activities in the 1930s. We discuss why Jung turned towards Western and European spirituality during this time and then dive into the vision of Saint Loyola, along with Jung's interpretation of it. We also discuss the work of Jesuit priest, philosopher, and theologian Erich Przywara, whose writings on the exercises served as a foundation for much of Jung's lectures.Additionally, we delve into two of the most important visions of Jung: the first being from Christmas Day of 1913, where Jung identified with being Christ on the Cross, and the second is a vision of Christ on the Cross that he had while writing on the spiritual exercises of Saint Loyola in the late 1930s.The music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Golden Teacher.

This is an edited version of an old interview with Jungian Analyst and Episcopal priest John A Sanford (1929-2005). Sanford begins by defining his own understanding of Christianity as a religion "where the mind is free to explore". He then turns to clarify some of Jung's confusing statements about evil and to defend the Privatio Boni. Sanford does not seem evil as an integral part of God but as something allowed for by the higher purposes of God. Sanford inhabits the position of his mentor and analyst Fritz Künkel (1889-1956), who launched the today mostly forgotten idea of a "we-psychology". Künkel places evil not within the self but within the ego(-centricity) of man. Sanford ends the interview by broadening the definition of individuation from an individual and narrowly psychological process to more of a spiritual and inclusive definition that includes life itself.Recommended reading: Fritz Kunkel: Selected Writings edited by John Sanford.The Kingdom Within: A Study of the Inner Meaning of Jesus’ SayingsFor the full video visit the following link. The interviews were filmed and recorded by James Arraj and there are other interesting dialogues in the same series available on youtube. 

Eighty years ago this month the Berlin-born Jewish German cabaret singer and actress of silent movies Dora Gerson (1899-1943) was murdered with her family in Auschwitz. This episode is done in her memory and includes two of her most famous songs Vorbei and Die Welt ist Klein Geworden. The story is read by Katharina Albrecht.Sources: Jacques Klöters Facebook post in Dutsch, 16 Nov. 2020 http://www.musiques-regenerees.fr/GhettosCamps/Camps/GersonDora.html

"We never know what comes forward in a soul when the worst of the worst happens."   Episode description:Ever since I first read the diaries of Etty Hillesum (1914-1943) I wanted to understand better her relation to the psychology of C.G Jung. A few episodes ago I had a conversation about Jungian Analyst and hand-reader Julius Spier, who was Etty's analyst. In this episode, we shift the attention to Etty Hillesum and as our guide, we have Barbara Morrill. Barbara Morrill is a clinical psychologist in private practice and an Associate Professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies. She will help us look at the life and individuation of Etty Hillesum through a lens inspired by Jung’s psychology, and to help us better understand his psychology's influence on her thinking and writing. Interweaved into this conversation are read excerpts from the diaries of Etty’s Hillesum beautifully brought to life by Katharina Albrecht.Music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Reborn.

In February 1961, four months before his death, C.G Jung was interviewed at his home in Küsnacht by Kaarle Nordenstreng, a freelance journalist for the Finnish Broadcasting Company. This is an edited version of a rather comical interview in which the two discuss Jung's late book 'The undiscovered Self' (Gegenwart und Zukunft), National Socialism, Jung's legacy in the public domain as well as his distrust of modern machines. Musical interpretation and Finish tango selection by The PsychiatryPhoto taken by Kaarle NordenstrengRead more about the interview and access a full version here

A read excerpt from chapter XIV, "Divine Folly" of Jung's Red Book, Liber Secundus. In this chapter, Jung picks up Thomas à Kempis (1380–1471) book The Imitation of Christ. He starts his working through of this fundamental concept of Christianity and presents a radical rendering of it. Text and picture sources: The Internet Archive 

Are you interested in a more intimate and in-depth exploration of the intersection of Jungian psychology and Christianity? Maybe you should consider joining the online course starting on January 10th? We will meet online for four weekly learning sessions and lectures related to Jung and Christianity.There will also be room to discuss what we have learned between the sessions and an exchange of ideas. For more information about the course and early-bird registration go to this link.This online course will cover: Session 1: Following the footsteps of a Protestant. In our first learning session, we go in-depth into Jung’s childhood experiences and the Christian tradition he grew up in and how it informed his psychological project. Date: 10 Jan 2023 8:00-9:15pm CET (Central European Time)Session 2: Jung's Red Book & rendering of the Imitation of Christ. An in-depth study of Jung’s wrestle with Christ in the Red Book and his radical reformulation of the Christian concept of the imitation of Christ. Date: 17 Jan 2023 8:00-9:15pm CETSession 3: Christianity’s repression of the unconscious. With C.G Jung’s 1923 Cornwall seminars as a starting point we learn how Jung viewed Christianity's effect on the unconscious. Date: 24 Jan 2023 8:00-9:15pm CETSession 4: Jung’s vision of dreaming the myth onward. In our last session, we will discuss Jung’s later writings on Christianity with an emphasis on Aion and Answer to Job. Date: 31 Jan 2023 8:00-9:15pm CET

"The opposite of sin is faith in which one responds, you might say, appropriately to the call that comes to one. So faith is a kind of response. Faith is a passion. It requires grace. It requires divine assistance."Episode description:If there would be a Christian type of depth psychology, a part of its foundation would most likely be founded on the insights about the human self articulated by Danish Philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (1813-1855). Our guest in this episode, Professor C. Stephen Evans, has not only imagined but also articulated important parts of the foundations of such a Christian psychology of depth in his book Søren Kierkegaard’s Christian psychology - Insights for counseling and pastoral care. In this episode, Dr. Evans helps us outline Kierkegaard’s view of the human self and his understanding of anxiety, despair, and self-deception's role in psychological development. He helps us understand how conscience and sin relate to individual psychology in Kierkegaard's psychology. Perhaps most importantly, he shows us how love and forgiveness are the foundations of a Kierkegaardian practice of depth psychology.  Dr. Evans is a world-leading expert on Søren Kierkegaard. He is a Professor of University Professor of Philosophy and Humanities at Baylor University, Waco, Texas. A professorial research fellow at the Institute for Ethics and Society at the University of Notre Dame in Sydney, Australia. He has also published extensively on subjects including philosophy of religion and the relationship of psychology and Christianity. His latest book is Kierkegaard and spirituality: Accountability as the Meaning of Human Existence (Kierkegaard as a Christian thinker).Music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - No light without darkness, Essence and Reborn.

"The six million dollar question is, what is this God that Jung is talking about? What is Yahweh? In effect, he's putting Yahweh on the couch.  That's the entire genius of what Jung's doing, is putting God on the couch. As also if one were to look at it from a faith perspective, that's the entire problem is, you don't put God on the couch."Episode Description:The key questions examined in the Biblical Story of Job are: How can the suffering and injustice in the world be reconciled with the image of God that was taught to us? If God is good, where does evil come from? These questions and more Jung took on to examine in his provocative and much-debated work Answer to Job. To help us understand and unpack this work of Jung, I have invited again Jungian scholar Paul Bishop. Paul has written the most extensive commentary on the book, released in 2002 by Routledge as Answer to Job - A commentary. Through this conversation, Paul helps us to contextualize this book in Jung’s overall psychological oeuvre and to understand the main arguments Jung raises in defense of Job. We discuss the reception of the work and Martin Buber's critique of Jung as a Gnostic and his powerful reaction to this “accusation”. We discuss how to understand Answer to Job in view of the publication of Jung’s Red Book. Music played in this episode is licensed under creativecommons.org: Ketsa - Dawn's dew & Enough.Ps. I highly recommend you to seek out the latest publication by Paul Bishop, it’s entitled, Nietzsche's the Anti-Christ: A Critical Introduction and Guide (Edinburgh Critical Guides to Nietzsche) which was released by Edinburgh University Press earlier this year.

Church music 2029. A musical interlude by The Psychia†ry. 1. Move into our own - Nicole Mitchell 2. This and that and the other - African Head Charge 3. The carnival of the Animals R.125 The Swan - Camille Saint-Saens 4. Helgmalsrigning - The Psychiatry 5. Coconut - Mango 6. Sickness unto Death - The Psychiatry 7. Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten Arvo Pärt 8. Vorbei - Dora Gerson9. Inat - Impérieux 10. Delicado - Rudi Lakatos 11. Awakening - The Psychiatry

This is a sample of a video recording with Jungian Analyst Robert A. Johnson (May 26, 1921 – September 12, 2018) author of books such as Owning Your Own Shadow: Understanding the Dark Side of the Psyche. The interview was conducted by J. Pittman McGehee in San Diego in 2002. For the full three-hour video visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=M0raXj8AM6M

Edited recording of live Q&A and summary of season 2 of Secular Christ with Sean J McGrath. 

What's the point of a Christian community? Why is community important for a contemporary contemplative Christian? In the final episode of the second season of Secular Christ, Sean McGrath turns to the question of community. We discuss its importance in the contemplative tradition and its absence within psychoanalysis and Analytical Psychology. We discuss the necessity also for a communal symbolic life, Christian eschatology, reaching the razor's edge of contemplative Christianity with the question: what is our attitude to be in a world that is passing away?For those of you who enjoyed this season, we would like to invite you to a live Q&A and summary with McGrath. The date is set to Sunday 13th of November at 5 pm CET and we will meet on Zoom first for a lecture and then for questions and discussions. Please RSVP to j.lusensky@gmail.comMusic in this episode by Xylo-Ziko - Eventide & Peril. Licensed by Creative Commons.