Church Girls Gone Bad

We cover so much good stuff in this Q&A on Heather’s coming out as a lesbian! After sharing the timeline of processing her queerness in Part 1, Heather answers anonymous listener questions, like: How she realized she was a lesbian and not bi (it was a PROCESS and we walk through it all) How this relates to her former stories she’s shared about sex with men, masturbation, and leaving the church Advice on how to come out when you have religious trauma How she knew she was into women How her parents reacted What she thinks of the statement “everyone's a little gay” (we both have THOUGHTS) Why establishing a queer identity is important to her Dating stories and advice for someone who’s nervous to flirt Thank you to the listeners who submitted questions! Enjoy this chat! Be a Baddie with us on social media! - Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this fun-filled interview with Emily, Heather tells the story of thinking she was straight for her whole life until one fateful comment on a YouTube video led her to question everything. She talks about exactly how she realized she was into women and not into men (despite a long list of ex-boyfriends), an electrifying first kiss, an exciting jump into the queer dating scene, and the joys and pains of coming out as a lesbian. In true Heather fashion, she busts out her journal to share a vulnerable entry, gets candid about signs of attraction to women she missed early in life, and shares the deep research that helped her come to terms with her sexuality after a life of thinking that "straight" was the only option. If you've ever wondered how someone could not realize they were gay, if you're examining your own attractions, or you're just plain wanting All The Tea, you'll love this episode! ::: Listener Q&A to come next week in Part 2 ::: Resources: Erica Smith & her Purity Culture Dropout Queer Support Group Sermon by Brit Barron - this one isn't the exact one Emily watched, but it'll give you the gist of her wisdom. Be a Baddie with us on social media! - Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emily and Heather dive into some nitty-gritty details about how we moved past the shame around our own sexualities. (Get ready for some very candid sex stories…) We discuss coming home to our own bodies and our own sexual ethic, how our parents handled sexual curiosity, and the awkward encounters we had along the way. For the first time, Emily discusses her journey with thinking she was asexual, how she realized she wasn’t, and how she had to start over on establishing her own sexual values after her divorce. Heather talks about how her and her siblings had to write essays on their philosophy of dating before they could start dating. We also read a story from someone who dated one of her siblings and learn what it was like to be on the receiving end of these intense dating rules. We also read listener submissions on the weirdness of purity culture, including purity ceremonies, signed contracts, and crying over a friend losing their virginity. Resources mentioned in this episode:  Pure by Linda Kay Klein Beyond Shame by Matthias Roberts Heartbreak: A Personal and Scientific Journey JOIN THE BADDIES ON SOCIAL MEDIA ::: Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a purity culture grab bag! We cover purity messaging we are glad to have left in the past, how purity culture impacted our relationships, and how we’re navigating our sexualities now. It seems past sexual partners aren't what haunts us, it's Purity Culture itself! We dive deep on how we were determined to follow the rules set before us by evangelical Christianity, and the differing ways we dealt with that. Whether we were “struggling with sexual sin,” going all the way, crying after masturbating, breaking up after breaking boundaries, or having guilt-ridden discussions with boyfriends, we each attempted to find ourselves in the midst of a lot of rules. We talk about Bible verses that communicate that our bodies belong to our spouses — yikes — which leads to a discussion about marital expectations and how difficult it is to jump from virginity to being stoked about sex. We ponder marriage and whether we’re into it now that we’re out of evangelicalism’s marriage-focused culture.  Finally, we talk about our current sexual ethic and how we’ve gotten in touch with ourselves amidst dating, divorce, serious relationships, casual sex, and so much more.  Resources discussed in this episode: Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free Refamulating Podcast 50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God by Guy P. Harrison Be a Baddie with us on social media! - Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whip out your Bibles, Baddies! In this post-Easter episode, Emily and Heather dive into the resurrection story with their deconstruction glasses on. Heather did some digging on the details that don’t align in the gospel narratives of Easter, from who was there to what time of day it was to where Jesus went afterwards. She shares how she ignored any discrepancies as a Christian but can now look at it with honesty and thoughtfulness as she decides what she thinks of it all. We engage in a candid back-and-forth about the Christian response to the differences in the gospels, thoughts on if the differences can be reconciled, and whether or not the arguments for the resurrection story are convincing to them.  Emily also discusses how Easter was a significant milestone in her deconstruction journey, what past Easters felt like while she was deep in doubt-land, and what the concept of resurrection means in her current spiritual worldview.  We hope this episode challenges you and helps jumpstart your own research and thinking, wherever you are on your deconstruction journey!  Fact Check: We got some feedback that the resurrection myths we shared aren't accurate, so please listen with caution. We're putting this here for extra emphasis that those derived from a quick google search, and we have very limited knowledge around other resurrection myths. We apologize for the misinformation. Resources mentioned in this episode: Keith Long’s article, How Does The Resurrection Story Change In The Gospels? The Bible passages referenced: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20 Josh McDowell’s justification of the resurrection discrepancies Rohr on Resurrection Resurrection: A Threatening Comfort Be a Baddie with us on social media >> Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Christianity messed with our minds, and we get into it! We ask ourselves the question: Did our mental health get better or worse after leaving the church? And how was it when we were in the church? Emily describes how a lot of her anxiety is night-and-day better because the burden of Christianity is lifted, and discusses how her faith was intertwined with her OCD. Heather talks about how her anxiety actually got worse in some ways after leaving, because she no longer had a God to dump all her worries onto and had to actually face the depths of her brain for the first time. We focus on the stress that plagued us as devout Christians who felt a need to do everything right, and how confusing it was to receive conflicting messages of sin and grace. We share in the joy of how we feel more freedom now to just be humans, without so much worry about converting people, honoring God in every damn thing, and monitoring our behavior. We both share what helps us deal with our anxiety now — medication! Internal Family Systems! Friends! Autonomy! Being free from our former God concept!  Very importantly, we also close out by discussing VIBRATORS! And our shame in discussing them and even saying the word “masturbation” aloud.  Other fun things: Which meds we’re on :) God’s voice adding to & becoming our anxiety The Bachelor & MTV being “sinful” Religious OCD Shroom trips Emily reads the Bible aloud for the first time in forever The “playground for perfectionism” of Christian culture, and never measuring up A pretty bad Rick Warren quote Blindly pondering about what today’s youth groups are like Getting kicked off the roster of people who were asked to volunteer at youth group summer camp (whoops!) Resources mentioned: This Instagram post by The Naked Pastor D.L. Mayfield’s Substack: Healing is My Special Interest Our episode with Beth K. Schwartz The Religious Trauma Institute — this is how Emily found her therapist! Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emily and Heather wince and crack up as they read from journals they devoted themselves to as Christian tweens, Biola students, Saddleback staff members, and more. Enjoy their cringey entries, ranging from "Daddy God" prayers to mission trip insights to frenetically anxious prayers.  You'll hear how Emily was guilty about all her doubts about God and often wondered if she was honoring God enough through her homework. Heather renewed her broken purity vows over and over, and proves in her journal shares that she was indeed, an earnest Christian, despite what her current internet trolls claim.  Reflecting on their past beliefs, struggles, and growth since leaving their evangelical upbringing behind, and pondering on what they'd tell their younger selves now, your CGGB hosts offer a heartfelt glimpse into the reality of growing up in the church.  Keep your ears peeled for the special, first-time CGGB inclusion of listener voice memos as well. Thank you to all who sent these in! Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do we still believe in God? Let's chat: losing belief, spiritual encounters, and leaving the church "just to sin"! Emily introduces the new co-host of CGGB and former guest, Heather Leith. We talk about where we've been since the listeners last heard from us and spill the tea on why Lauren is no longer hosting. Heather comes out as an atheist! She explains how she went from identifying as a progressive Christian back in Season 1 to now being a big, bad ex-Christian. She discusses how digging into her faith caused it to fall apart and where she finds meaning now as a nonbeliever. Emily chats about her newfound freedom in being curious without certainty as the end goal, and shares about a recent spiritual experience that she can't quite explain. She also talks about being more settled in her post-evangelical life and why she's not going as crazy for deconstruction stuff as she used to. We also touch on: Developing a sexual ethic without purity culture "Church hurt" and what happens when you were the one doing the hurting How heartbreaking deconstruction can be when you're in the middle of it Feeling brainwashed about women pastors in the past Thinking they were cool for going to "deep" churches Critiquing the Southern Baptist Convention Secretly watching debates with atheists while at Bible college Resources mentioned in the episode: The Atheist Experience YouTube channel — Heather likes Matt Dillahunty and Forrest Valkai episodes in particular, but beware this channel can get INTENSE! Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus podcast — Helpful for understanding how the gospels were written and how the Bible was put together Some podcasts that Emily's partner works on that you might like: You Have Permission, Emerged This Dear Evan Hansen song lol Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back in June 2022, High Noons in-hand, we recorded this episode with Tate and Katy, who were not "The Logans" at the time, but have since gotten married which is SO FUN. This conversation was too important to leave in the gmail archives, so one day in April 2023, Emily decided it was time to move this to the top of her to-do list and get this out to the world. We want you to hear their stories, both individually and together, about journeying through adolescence as queer kids in the south, navigating betrayal, understanding what it means to be trans, falling in love, and much more. You'll even get to find out what happened on that fateful day at Zaxby's. From learning about the epic way Tate's mom responded to him coming out to solidifying that Katy should in fact pursue stand-up comedy, this conversation was quite the emotional rollercoaster - but the kind that's definitely worth waiting for in line at Six Flags. (And by emotional rollercoaster, we mean there was lots of laughing and then surprise crying. And yes, Emily was the one shedding tears as per usual.) ___________ To find Tate and follow his music, entertaining TikTok, and listen to the podcast he hosts on Idobi Radio, head here: @tatexlogan / www.tatelogan.com And lurk Katy too because she's the best: @katyxlogan Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We asked Deconstruction Expert & Guide, Phil Drysdale, YOUR questions. Dive into the Q&A portion of our conversation with him! And if you're wanting to learn more from Phil, head to www.phildrysdale.com. He's got a plethora of resources and education and memes to offer you. Enjoy! Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back in July 2021, we had the pleasure of chatting with researcher and guide for those deconstructing their faith, Phil Drysdale, about all things deconstruction. If you're navigating your faith shifting and you've gone to the Internet for solace, you've probably come across one of his posts, memes, YouTube videos, online community, etc. He's doing it all!  From data around the deconstruction phenomenon to the psychology of what's happening in the minds of those who stay and those who expand beyond what Evangelicalism taught them onto stages of human development, we did a big ol' deep dive into Phil's knowledge around human development, particularly as it relates to folks undergoing a faith evolution. If you want more from Phil Drysdale, and there is plenty more, head to https://www.phildrysdale.com/ for all the goodness he's generously shared with the world. Ps. We asked for some listeners questions and we did in fact ask those, but decided to make the Q&A it's own episode. You can check out the Q&A segment in the next CGGB Episode.  Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

WE'RE BACK BABY! Recorded on Good Friday, April 15, 2022, we shared all about what's gone down in the last year of our lives. You'll see why we took a bit of a little break from podcasting and learn where we're both at now, locationally and spiritually. (We ask for your ~grace~ on the audio quality & whatever that damn thumping is! We did our very best by ourselves LOL - without our previous mixing man - but have since found someone that's going to make these sound WAY BETTER.) Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lizzo Lover, Educator, and Child of Peruvian immigrants, Melany del Carpio-Garrett, grew up in predominantly white spaces that signaled to her she might be a little different. She learned to fit in, but always carried a larger view of the world due to her family’s rich culture. When studying at a predominately white Bible university, she wrestled with Calvinism as a principle theology of the university. In light of the doctrine’s rigidity, she could not reconcile these ideas with who she was, where she came from, and where her loved ones would be going. Soon after, she began to rethink plenty of other ways white evangelicalism had put boundaries around the God she knew to be bigger than what she’d been given. Melany graciously invites us into her journey as she shares how she embraced her latinidad, developed a deep appreciation of liberation theology and became her truest self. If you’ve ever turned on a Lizzo song and felt the Spirit move ya, this episode will be just right for you. Resources: That Brené Brown quote: “I don’t think I abandoned faith, but I certainly abandoned church in my early 20s, kind of when politics and spirituality got really enmeshed...It didn’t meet my needs anymore... Religion had gone from a belief in faith and mystery to certainty; ‘I’m right, you’re wrong, shut up.’ ...I fell in love with the faith and the mystery piece [but] it became less about faith and mystery, and more about politics and certainty.” Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roge "Toots" Rupp is back! Well not technically back...this is simply Part Two of a 3-hour long conversation. When we got going on things like what doesn't work for us about current church services, how 2020 majorly shifted us, how faith got monetized, and how the church made loving people way too complicated, we couldn't stop talking. And then Roge went on to give us such a gracious deep dive into how white folks need to wake up and do something about white supremacy in this country, and that's an undoubtedly crucial conversation for us to be having & for us to share with you all.  RESOURCES 400 Souls by Ibram X. Kendi Stamped From The Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi Capitalism and Christianity, American Style by William E. Connolly Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobez du Mez Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

History enthusiast, social justice activist, compelling story-teller, badass Grandma, Roge Rupp, offers a raw, genuine, enlightening glimpse into her story as a Black woman in America and in the white Evangelical church. While sharing her honest, heart-wrenching stories of navigating things like homelessness, miscarriage, racism, and ideas put on her about what a good Christian woman should look like, she graciously educates us on things like The Slave Bible, the origins of Black churches in America, tokenism, vagrancy laws, and more. She's a master of metaphors, a hilariously good-time, a pillar of wisdom, insight, and love and we're thankful for her presence on this podcast. Resources: The Slave Bible Why Bibles Given to Slaves Omitted Most of the Old Testament Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anthropology and Archaeology expert, Missy Snell, brings a fascinating, fresh, zoomed-out perspective to her faith in Christ. As a self-described outsider to Evangelicalism, she shares her compelling journey of faith with unhindered autonomy and humble confidence, while effortlessly throwing around terms like Homo Erectus and Denisovans in a way that'll make you wish she was your freshman-year science teacher. She invites us into her curiosities in college about Adam and Eve, her growing adoration of the Hebrew poetry in Genesis, and her delight in seeing Christ in everyone and everything. She also takes us through her grief over the church's response to Bin Laden's death in 2011, her deep sorrow over the colonization of Native Americans done in the name of God, and her hope that more folks would cultivate expanded, inclusive, restorative views of Christ. If you’ve ever sensed that the Jesus story you were given felt too small or too exclusive, you will absolutely love this episode. God is bigger, y'all.   + + +   Here are links to most of Missy’s shout-outs: Eckhart Tolle The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Graham Hancock Watermark Florida BEMA Discipleship Podcast Rescuing the Gospel from the Cowboys Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chicago-based actor, activist, and host of The Blckchelorettes, Victoria Price, gives us an honest look at her faith journey, sharing about what it's been like to be a Black woman in White Evangelical spaces, how she's clung to God in the midst of grief, how she found freedom to pursue acting as a woman of faith, and much more. She offers a deeply personal look into her shifting faith and her sifting through of things like racism in her faith communities, the loss of her father, navigating romantic relationships, and standing in her confidence of the heart of God through it all. Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Round 2 with Heather Leith because well, we were on a roll and wanted to keep that conversation train a-chuggin'. We kick it off with some mission trip memories and our musings on the problematic nature of said travels. We turn a corner into Full-Time Ministry, and dive deeper into the shame, dissociation, and internal struggle of navigating all the religious rules we were under and required to impart to others. This leads into a whooole thing on modesty and more unpacking of that good ol' Purity Culture box.  Have at it, folks! Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We invited our dear friend from college, Mark Nesbitt, to share his story, and talk with us about all things sexuality, Christian Conservatism, his shifting theology, and what it was like to be a Pastor's Kid who knew he was gay. Mark graciously offers a very open-book look at his story, from his days of French-kissing girls in the janitor's closet at church to the time he came out on Instagram, all the way to his current hot take on Evangelicalism. (He may or may not call it a cult...Don't say we didn't warn ya.) Have at it, folks. We love him and know you will too. Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emerging from a 2-year sabbatical to ensure that anger and pain wouldn’t lead her narrative, Nurse, Pastor, and Professor Beth K. Schwartz makes her podcast debut on Church Girls Gone Bad.  During her time at Fuller, she found herself in a mid-life faith crisis, asking: “Is there a support group for people who have lost God in seminary?” After years of healing from her harmful Evangelical history, she now carries the belief that the Divine led her to and through this spiritual awakening. She offers her grief, hope, and encouragement for those also questioning things like biblical inerrancy, the patriarchy, and their place in the church.  ____________ Resources: Correction: Beth's Awakening Circle will be on April 11th. See her Instagram for more details. Here is a PDF of Peck and Fowler's Stages of Faith. Be a Baddie with us on social media! Instagram | TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices