Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

(0:24) This is officially a rock climbing podcast(8:15) Andrew and Sean's gardens have attracted guests(12:59) Sean lowkey needs another break(25:10) Miscreants is doing a collection drop at DEFCON(29:56) Rebranding is like creating a religion but without Kool-Aid Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) There’s a parallel universe where Andrew’s life revolves around photography(8:34) Sean is suspicious as hell(17:31) The real reason why so many CEOs are super fucking into meditation(26:31) Andrew and Sean’s bi-weekly book club chat(34:29) Your lawyer career doesn’t mean shit if you can’t work on your streetwear brand Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Sublime Security: https://sublimesecurity.com/ Email Rep IO: https://emailrep.io/ Ted at Sentinel IPS: @tedgruenloh Margins by Ranjan Roy and Can Duruk: https://www.readmargins.com/ Leave Me Alone: https://leavemealone.app/ SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Melissa Perri’s book: Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value Bionic reading: https://bionic-reading.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:25) The difference between Andrew and Sean is that Sean is extra delusional (6:27) Sales feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks (17:23) Either the channels depend on the day, or different channels work during different times(24:32) Giving constraints encourages creativity, not stifles it(34:21) Andrew and Sean are both traveling and bad at bowling Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:22) Getting experience is all about putting in the reps(9:09) It’s easy judging a designer by their portfolio. A PM by their resume? Not so much.(18:58) It’s mad hard building a leadership team(27:12) Commission vs. Salary: We’re undecided on which one’s better(37:03) If Krit didn’t exist, Andrew would definitely have an SEO marketing agency Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pyramid of Success: http://www.coachwooden.com/pyramid-of-success Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837 Entreprenurial Operation System: https://www.eosworldwide.com/ Luke Stephens: @hakluke HackerContent: https://hackercontent.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:22) Sean was recently diagnosed with ADHD, and that’s OK(5:58) I’m not undisciplined, mom—I’m just wired differently (10:16) Wages as a CEO: How much should you compensate yourself?(20:21) Stocks are steady, but business is more rewarding(26:53) Sometimes, it’s the stupid risks that pay off (so go sponsor that esports team)(30:36) Personal note: Rest in peace, Mike Murray Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Atonic Habits: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits Bureau of Digital 2022 Salary Guide: https://bureauofdigital.com/2022-salary-guide Mike Murray: @mmurray Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD: https://www.amazon.com/Organizing-Solutions-People-Revised-Updated/dp/1592335128 Pilot’s 2021 Founder Salary Report: https://pilot.com/blog/2021-pilot-founder-salary-report For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) It’s good to have a playbook in case you get hit by a bus tomorrow(6:19) You can’t have a great process if you don’t iterate or communicate(11:31) The more granular you get, the more you get bogged down by the rules(18:14) Awesome employees + no rules = chaos(23:17) The client does have the final decision, but it’s sad if you just act like a waiter(33:24) Miscreants don’t sponsor losers Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Maker’s Pace: https://anchor.fm/makers-pace/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) The Tale of Two Founders: the Technical One and the Sales and Marketing One(6:58) Sean is Andrew’s new therapist(13:39) Letting go of your Legos is harder than it looks(17:48) Hot Take: Social media memers don’t make for good marketing directors(23:32) Sean is like a laptop with too many Chrome tabs open: constantly getting drained(29:56) Relinquishing Perfectionism: It’s not that their version is worse—it’s just different(35:40) Miscreants is now an eSports sponsorThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Productive Flourishing: https://www.productiveflourishing.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew got roped into volunteering with a local high school robotics team(4:12) It’s mad hard to hire a product designer(10:59) One does not simply get hired because one uses hamburger menus(20:22) There’s always a weird rift between international and domestic employees(28:38) How do you keep your employees happy when you can’t give them a ping pong table?(31:38) You can’t pay someone a shit salary just because they’re in Mexico(40:44) Hiring People: It’s like a transaction, so don’t be shitty Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew got his first snow boots ever, and Sean is terrified of surfboarding(4:36) Sean wishes he had an office-office, and Andrew's looking to hire a product designer(10:14) Andrew’s new pitch: a low-cost, automated recruiting service with a flat fee(19:58) There are many great online job boards out there, but Ziprecruiter is not one of them(25:34) Coinbase's Super Bowl ad was a super clever campaign(30:02) Andrew and Sean play a game using Krit's data on cybersecurity product names(40:07) Sean’s new self-care regime: breathwork(45:32) It's hard to know just how many people you should hire(51:48) You can't build a business on something people don't want or don't know that they need Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pallet: https://www.pallet.com/ Superpath: https://jobs.superpath.co/ Krit’s cyber security product names analysis article:  ​https://www.krit.com/blog/cybersecurity-product-names ​For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew’s never been to Disney World, and Sean’s surrounded by cat owners(5:18) Domain names are like gym memberships: you should take them seriously(10:38) People are scrambling to figure out how to close that lead gap, and that’s fair(15:40) A less boring alternative to white papers: interactive microsites(19:48) No time for microsites? Start a movement with other companies(24:33) What’s better than hosting competitions? Free swag.(28:19) Everyone loves free stuff—including existing customers(31:59) One does not simply close the lead gap by making marketing events Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Label Time: https://label-time.com/ Minimum Viable Secure Product: https://mvsp.dev/ Trace Labs: https://www.tracelabs.org/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:25) Andrew and Sean are going to play a game(2:57) Microcopy: the little bits of texts that can make a huge splash(7:48) Accessibility: it’s just good design(10:18) Andrew wants tooltip walk-throughs to burn in Hell(14:05) Not all product analytics is created equally(20:03) Why do people have a customer support robot when it takes hours to get a response?(23:19) Documentation is more scalable than customer support, but most people suck at it(32:47) Andrew’s quick correction Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Growth.Design: https://growth.design/ Samuel Hulick’s User Onboarding: https://www.useronboard.com/ Parallax tool: https://www.getparallax.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew hopes he's resilient to SAD because he has plenty of other mental anguish(3:29) Culture and Business: Only having awesome culture doesn't put food on the table(15:58) Miscreants just launched three freaking projects back to back(19:09) Appealing to Emotions 101: Emphasize with pain(21:33) If you think figuring out your niche is hard, try finding someone else's(29:15) Standing out in a Commoditized Industry: Specifically show what you do(38:07) Krit and Miscreant's 2022 goals: Less chaos, more focus Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Running an agency is like leading geese while not knowing where you're going(5:45) Holidays While Remote: Having fun traditional office stuff is hard(9:11) Miscreants’ Black Friday merch sales were so high that Sean became a folding master(11:56) The hardest part of having a newsletter is making it(15:05) Krit learned some interesting things from testing their design audit process(19:30) And Miscreants is launching a YouTube channel(23:55) Andrew and Sean might share an Airbnb for RSA(26:43) If Greg's happy, Andrew's happy(29:30) Andrew and Sean and the future of the pod Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Krit’s InfoSec VC list: https://www.krit.com/infosec-vcs Krit’s Product People Interview with Haroon Meer: https://www.krit.com/blog/sweating-the-small-stuff-with-haroon-meer-founder-of-thinkst-canary Malcolm Gladwell’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Thinking-Without/dp/0316010669 Mike Monnik’s Infosec Black Friday List: https://github.com/0x90n/InfoSec-Black-Friday For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Krit (sort of) got hacked (7:21) One does not simply tell employees and clients that one got hacked(13:23) Two Types of Recruiters: Those who “spam the shit out of everybody,” and those who build relationships(18:31) “Holidays are tough”(23:47) It’s hard juggling days off while pushing against stagnation(26:54) Selling butts in a seat is easier when you have a smaller team(30:27) Making Playbooks: Is it better to make it simple than have all the context in the world?(34:44) Krit just hit a major milestone!(39:37) Sean’s new clothing line is out(45:04) Andrew’s talking to a social media manager, and Sean’s trying to do a content marketing push in a newsletter format  Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Miscreants’ new clothing line (Away from Keyboard): https://shopmiscreants.com/collections/away-from-keyboard-2021 For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew, Sean, and another Andrew(7:24) Getting ahold of the people you want and don't want to get to(11:30) Crossing the chasm: Getting rid of collection bias and positioning yourself better(16:15) Leading people who work for the people who work for you (20:15) The Difference Between Therapists and Executive Coaches: One tells you to shut up and suck it up(23:09) Values vs principles(32:02) Andrew Morris's goal used to be to sell for $30M. Given that GreyNoise is valued at more than $30M today what are his goals now?(40:34) Andrew and Andrew have a nuclear, mutually-assured destructive friendship (46:48) Andrew and Andrew and their startups that never started up(53:52) GreyNoise used to be the world's most inefficient musical instrument(57:47) Being in school is hard, but dropping out is even harder(1:06:21) Standing out in the Old-Boys-in-a-Suit Club: How to get noticed(1:17:49) Working Sustainably: How not to burn out(1:24:52) Sean asks a very important question, and Andrew embarrasses Andrew Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/GreyNoise: https://www.greynoise.io/ Andrew Morris's Twitter: @Andrew___MorrisFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. 

(0:27) Andrew has a cat named Stevie Nicks, and Sean’s cold and stressed in LA(3:17) Krit has officially launched one of its non-security clients(5:47) Sean’s New Pitch: Soundtracks based on interviews(8:27) Remixing and Repurposing Old Content: Why build from scratch when you have a foundation?(11:22) Running Remotely: How do you make your company more transparent internally?(16:50) Sean might be hiring another PM!(17:59) Speed: How fast is too fast? (23:58) The Secret Key to Speed: Managing your client’s perception(29:18) Selling full-time equivalents is similar to selling timeshares of someone(36:56) Project management is mad important, and so is billing for it(44:48) Building structure in your org is like building a productThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Koshercart: https://kosherkart.com/Krit’s interview with Jose Nazario: https://www.krit.com/blog/finding-signal-in-unstructured-data-with-jose-nazarioLatacora: https://www.latacora.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:21) The Yin and Yang of Running an Agency: How much can you control?(7:42) LinkedIn Marketing is free game(11:21) Onboarding Plans: Unexpectedly hard to develop(18:01) Andrew and Sean have a graveyard for domain names of projects they’ve abandoned(25:30) Some projects are very, very dead(30:57) And some were shot dead before they took off(35:04) You can’t expect prototype speed past the prototype stage(37:41) Development and Marketing: When do you go to the next stage?(41:12) Swag Ideas for Cons: Animal Crossing clothes and other virtual swag(45:17) The Miscreant and Krit Hackathon: Coming soon to a DefCon near you(52:12) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Threat Intelligent extension: https://threatintelligent.io/ Product People's first post: https://www.krit.com/blog/finding-signal-in-unstructured-data-with-jose-nazarioFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:29) Andrew’s cat, Po’ Boy’s, new friend: a cat named Danger (work-in-title)(2:49) ​​Security Companies: Why so many ‘S’ names?(8:12) Hiring Notice: Sean’s still looking for a Project Manager(10:56) Hiring Notice: So, Sean’s really looking for a Producer/Project Manager(14:36) Getting referrals for Design People from Tech People isn’t the greatest(17:05) Andrew and Sean really appreciate Mike Privette (Return on Security)(22:02) Broadening Horizons: When do you work with people outside your niche?(26:41) Having an outside perspective in an industry isn’t always a bad thing(30:37) Hot Take: Attribution in marketing isn’t very useful(35:13) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Bureau of Digital: https://bureauofdigital.com/ Home Repair Lab: https://www.homerepairlab.com/ Mike Privette: @mikepsecuriteeRethink: https://rethinkcanada.com/ Return on Security: https://www.returnonsecurity.com/  For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Irvine's sunsets are crazy and Detroit's EDM scene is wild(4:50) ​​Andrew's kicking off his interview series Product People(7:41) Sean is a fanboy of Return on Security(10:20) It's not all about the VC outreach(12:19) Product Management is such a weird industry(19:50) There aren't many good online security communities for intermediates(23:47) There's a difference between having a fan base and having a community(29:01) Sean hypothesizes the history between lawyers and legal pads(31:52) Making or finding the perfect feedback tool: easier said than done(36:42) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.Shoutouts:Information on Peerlyst - https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/peerlystProduct People: https://www.krit.com/newsletterReturn on Security: https://www.returnonsecurity.com/ User Snap: https://usersnap.com/ 0x00sec - https://0x00sec.org/ Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Laptops and remote work go hand in hand(3:27) But Sean and Andrew are not about that digital nomad life(6:10) Setting the right goals is a constant struggle(8:24) Andrew's therapist is a surprisingly awesome business coach(11:35) Time Measurement: Think about your to-dos, but don't go super, super in detail(14:03) Andrew shares some of his goals(19:24) Life with a Co-Founder: No shared values? Good luck(24:49) Success is success(28:56) Sean’s latest pitch: A one-stop-shop service for all things swag(34:22) Sean drops some knowledge on getting connected with VCs(42:52) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:- Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskins- Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/- Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/- Krit: https://www.krit.com/ - Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ - Sean's Twitter: @seanqsun- Hatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.