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The Vertical Space is a podcast at the intersection of technology and flight, featuring deep dives with innovators, early adopters, and industry leaders.
We talk about the radical impact that technology is creating as it disrupts flight, enabling new ways to access the vertical space to improve our lives - from small drones to large aircraft. Our guests are operators and innovators across the value chain: airframers, technologists, data and service providers, as well as end users.
87 Episodes
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In this episode you'll hear from Scott Drennan, an accomplished aerospace innovator and executive. We discuss the DC-3 and Model T "moments" for advanced air mobility, the challenges and opportunities for the industry to manufacture at automotive speed, best practices for leveraging advanced manufacturing and digital engineering, and much more. As we always do in this podcast, you'll hear Scott's advice to entrepreneurs looking to start a business in this new chapter of aviation.
The conversation that follows is with Justin Steinke, Senior Vice President of Commercial Business at Spright. As a senior executive of one of the more sophisticated drone operators in the market, Justin knows the drone industry inside and out. He is just as comfortable discussing macro industry trends as he is getting into the weeds of enabling technologies. Needless to say, we did both. We start with a long discussion on the state of the commercial drone market: the remaining unaddres...
Today’s discussion is with Mykel Kochenderfer, Associate Professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics at Stanford University. He is the director of the Stanford Intelligent Systems Laboratory (SISL), conducting research on advanced algorithms and analytical methods for the design of robust decision making systems. When one of our previous guests recommended we speak with Mykel, he said that Mykel led the ACAS-X effort (a very successful and recent airborne collision avoidance system for our list...
In this episode, we have the great pleasure of talking to Dennis Muilenburg. Dennis needs no introduction, but let’s highlight a few of his accomplishments – before his current role as CEO and Chairman of the Board of New Vista Acquisition Corporation, a Special Purpose Acquisition Company – or SPAC – Dennis was CEO and Chairman of the board of Directors at The Boeing Company, where he started as an engineering intern in 1985. In his close to 40 years of experience in aerospace and defe...
In this episode we speak with Lorenzo Murzilli, CEO of Murzilli Consulting. We discuss the state of the drone market in Europe, including the rate of commercial drone adoption, differences between EU and US, remaining gaps, and EASA regulations. Listen to Lorenzo’s continuous emphasis on and importance of being aware of the hurdles in starting and running a drone business - and to embrace and not avoid these hurdles! To that end, you’ll really enjoy our start-u...
In this episode we’re speaking with Jim O’Sullivan, VP Regulatory Strategy and Special Projects at Matternet. In case you missed it, Matternet became the first commercial delivery drone manufacturer to receive type certification from the FAA in September 2022. This is an important industry milestone because, according to the FAA, operators that want to provide a regular commercial delivery service beyond visual line of sight need to run their operations under a Part 135 air carrier oper...
Today we welcome Christian Ramsey and Ryan Braun from uAvionix to discuss next-generation avionics. Ryan and Christian lead a successful company with real products for clear industry use-cases – in this case with size, weight, and power-optimized avionics – while straddling both the manned and unmanned markets. Listen to their conversation on the benefits of being in both markets. This is so important as we hear from so many who have yet to build their capabilities, are hoping for a var...
Today we're talking about global navigation satellite systems - or GNSS - and in particular, their vulnerabilities to jamming and spoofing. Joining us in the conversation is Omer Sharar, CEO of infiniDome, a GPS security company based in Israel. As a society, we have come to rely on GPS for countless things we do every day - to determine a position, navigate, track our packages, use maps, and to determine precise and accurate timing. At the same time, we have come to accept it as almost ...
In this episode we talk to Lisa Ellman, Executive Director of the Commercial Drone Alliance and Partner at Hogan Lovells. Our discussion focuses on the regulatory and policy aspects of Advanced Air Mobility, and in particular the commercial drone industry. Among other things, Lisa shares her thoughts and insights on Remote ID, operations over people, BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) ARC (Aviation Rulemaking Committee) recommendations and how/when the FAA might implement them i...
James Poss is a retired United States Air Force Major General and now Founder and Chief Executive of ISR Ideas, an intelligence and unmanned aircraft systems consulting firm. His distinguished 30-year Air Force career in military intelligence included combat experience in four wars. Before transitioning out of the military General Poss was the Air Force’s senior career intelligence officer. In this episode you’ll hear General Poss talk about the military cultural imperatives that drove ...
We sat down with Rex Alexander - one of the preeminent global leaders on the topic of vertical flight infrastructure - and uncovered an entire pandora’s box of important infrastructure issues including the catch 22 involving eVTOL performance, passenger tolerance for ride quality, and business models. Rex takes the time to explain in painful detail all the different regulatory layers that impact heliports and vertiports: from federal down to local, and how they influence timelines and locatio...
Today we’re taking a look into the future of air traffic management with Chris Hewlett, a retired naval aviator with 30 years of experience in aviation operations, safety, modernization, and optimization of next generation aviation systems. In the conversation that follows, Chris offers thought provoking insights on how we as an industry should be thinking about the management of a truly integrated airspace system that’s agnostic to the type of user, be it small drones, general aviation, comm...
Bobby is a proven and remarkable entrepreneur and industry innovator. He has started and sold successful companies and is now pioneering service delivery with his start up, ‘Manna’ - a Drone Delivery as a Service business. Listen to what makes Bobby special, how Manna delivers value today, their tech stack, their essential value and competitive advantages, his comments on certification, and how they plan to scale. Additionally, listen to qualities he looks for in his new hires, the advice he ...
In this episode we talk to Pasha Saleh, Head of Corporate Development at Alaska Airlines. Pasha is one of those industry leaders with a rare combination of experience in startups, large aerospace corporations, and management consulting – and on top of that he’s an airline pilot who still flies 737s at Alaska. This diverse background makes for an interesting perspective on the future of aviation – one that recognizes current times as the new golden age of aviation, but also tempered with a sen...
Our guest is Peter Cerda – IATA’s Regional VP of the Americas. It’s a fun, fast-moving podcast. Peter provides a global perspective on a range of topics, including the role of commercial aviation and how it is recovering today – stronger in some areas more than others. Peter discusses how returning to 2019 performance isn’t good enough as well as commercial aviation’s sustainability goals. He provides his perspective on AAM – it’s challenges, and the value it may provide to the world’s travel...
Another stimulating podcast! In this episode, we interview Chris Anderson, the COO and Chief Product Officer of Kittyhawk. Foundational to this podcast is the importance Kittyhawk is placing on autonomy and an affordable aircraft. Listen to why Chris and Kittyhawk are so confident about autonomy. Also listen to our discussion on performance-based certification…about operating at automotive scale…which is critical for the affordable vehicle. Chris has a fresh perspective on infrastructure and ...
David Grizzle simply makes you think; he challenges how we’re thinking today around transportation – and has a vision for how our transportation will change and adapt. Listen to his thoughts and comments from his background as an airline executive, as a leader in Afghanistan in the early years as transportation was being established, and as the Chief Operating Officer of the FAA to realize that he speaks from experience. David has a refreshing perspective on how the change will occur – and th...
You’ll want to take notes on this podcast! It’s a great pleasure to have Brendan Groves on our show. You advanced mobility entrepreneurs will enjoy Brendan’s talk, generated from his unique background, education, and industry experience. Listen to his perspective on a number of AAM subjects, including policy – and address why bold policy and policy goals are important. Brendan provides unique perspectives on autonomy, the importance of the tight integration of software and hardware, of artifi...
In this episode we talk to Brandon Suarez from General Atomics Aeronautical Systems about autonomy, certification, technology, standards, integration of unmanned aircraft into the national airspace system and a lot more. You’ll hear Brandon discuss how the internet approach to product development does not necessarily work in aviation, how autonomy will likely be rolled out in terms of missions sets and types of aircraft, and how important it is for new entrants into the world of air mobility ...
Few have Mike Whitaker’s background and senior executive experience in both aviation and in automotive air mobility. Mike speaks with authority and experience as the former Deputy Administrator and Chief NextGen Officer of the FAA, Group CEO of India’s largest travel conglomerate, a senior executive at United Airlines, and now a senior executive at Supernal, Hyundai’s Urban Air Mobility subsidiary. Mike discusses the transition from today’s air transportation system – with its remarkable safe...
Our guest today is Jesse Kallman, an accomplished aviation executive with broad experience in the unmanned aviation industry. We invited Jesse to speak on the podcast because he’s been a part of the commercial drone industry from its very beginning and he also founded and led a geospatial business within a large aerospace OEM, so for the entrepreneurs in our audience, his perspective and advice is very valuable. Among other things, you’ll hear Jesse talk about the early days at Airware,...
Welcome to Episode#1! In this episode we’ll talk about the business of The Vertical Space and discuss how drones, electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft (eVTOL), electric aircraft, and all elements within advanced air mobility deliver value or plan to deliver value to their customers and their investors. We're going to discuss why we started the podcast, why we think the topic is important for so many, especially entrepreneurs, a little bit about ourselves - so you know who's be...
In this episode, we sit down with Arnaud Thiercelin, Chief Product Officer at Orqa, for a bold and eye-opening conversation about the present and future of drones and mobile robotics. Arnaud challenges the status quo, urging listeners to think beyond gimmicks and focus on delivering real value to end users. From FPV drones neutralizing M1 Abrams tanks to the West’s struggle to produce a viable DJI competitor, he doesn’t shy away from controversy. He calls out the industry's missteps and offer...
In this episode, retired Senior Chief Engineer Carey Cannon shares his 38-year journey at Bell Helicopter, talking about the realities of developing and deploying vertical lift aircraft. He discusses why many eVTOL manufacturers underestimate the time and cost required, why getting in the air is the easy part, and the enduring principles of helicopter design. Carey reflects on key programs like the V280 and EagleEye, the technology gaps he encountered, and the biggest technical and commercial...
In this episode we dive into an engaging conversation with Sean Donohue, CEO of Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW). The discussion covers a broad range of topics such as the significant role of travel and tourism in the global economy, the strategies of introducing new technologies in aviation, and the operational priorities of running one of the world's largest airports. Sean provides insights into the complexities of balancing demand and supply in air traffic, his perspective on ...
In this episode, we sit down with Jenn Player, Vice President of Global Aviation Regulatory Affairs at Skydio and a leading voice in the drone industry, for a deep dive into autonomous drone operations. We start by unpacking the concept of electronic conspicuity and its potential to enable a fully cooperative shared airspace. Drawing from her experience flying larger UAS with the Air Force Research Lab and BNSF, Jenn shares why detect-and-avoid challenges in controlled airspace prompted her s...
Welcome to 2025! In this episode, we sit down with Amit Ganjoo, the Founder and CEO of ANRA Technologies, a global leader in UAS Traffic Management (UTM). This conversation explores Amit’s vision for an integrated airspace and the critical steps required to make it a reality. We delve into the role of AI in UTM and ATM, touching on the controversies surrounding its use. Amit shares insights on the differences between the U.S. federated model and the centralized approaches used globally, offer...
In this episode, we sit down with Bobby Sakaki, an expert in small UAS technology and CEO of UAS Nexus. Bobby shares his insights on the critical role drones play in defense, particularly in light of their impact in Ukraine, and highlights concerns about the lack of a strong and coordinated U.S. and Western industrial base for affordable, competitive drone components. He explores the challenges facing the drone industry, including engineering, supply chain limitations, raising capital, and sc...
In this episode, we speak with Brian Streem, Founder and CEO of Vermeer, about his journey from film production to pioneering drone technology in Ukraine’s defense ecosystem. Brian shares why he relocated to Kyiv, how he navigates the challenges of building advanced technology in a warzone, and the surprising ways it boosted his credibility with U.S. and European partners. We explore Vermeer’s Visual Positioning System, the competitive drone market, and Brian’s unique approach to solving prob...
In this episode, we sit down with Joerg Dittrich, a leading expert in drone regulations and one of the minds behind the SORA framework. Joerg shares insights on the evolution of drone integration, the development of the specific drone category, and how safety and risk management shape modern drone operations. We explore topics like air risk assessment, drone delivery, drones in agriculture, UTM, and the transformative potential of drones in complex environments. Tune in for a deep dive into t...
In this episode we welcome Bob Poole, Director of Transportation Policy and the Searle Freedom Trust Transportation Fellow at the Reason Foundation, who brings his expertise on the complex and often debated topic of airport privatization. We discuss the pros and cons of privatizing airports, examining the potential value to various stakeholders, including government, investors and passengers. As Bob explains, privatization has transformed airports globally, boosting efficiency, revenue potent...
In this episode we’re joined by Montie Brewer, former President and CEO of Air Canada, who provides a glimpse into the airline industry from the vantage point of a major airline leader. Montie draws on his experience as a CEO to share insights into how airlines make decisions about their networks and approach technology adoption. For entrepreneurs hoping to break into this space, Montie offers great advice, explaining how airlines, under the scrutiny of passengers, shareholders, and sustainab...
In this episode, we dive into the FAA's evolving approach to approving waivers and exemptions for complex drone operations, including beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS), 1:many operations, and broadly airspace integration over the past 18 months. Joining us again is Charlton Evans, a trusted expert in FAA drone regulations, who last appeared on episode #35. Charlton explains the significant shift in how drone OEMs and operators approach the type certification requirement in the U.S. Traditi...
Two years ago, we hosted Gen. James Poss to discuss the evolution of drone technologies, their adoption in the U.S. military, and their early use in the war in Ukraine. With significant advancements since then - especially in Ukraine's use of drones - we invited Gen. Poss back to focus on counter-UAS strategies and the concept of attritable mass, including the USAF's major program, the Collaborative Combat Aircraft. We explore various counter-UAS technologies, such as missiles, lasers, drone ...
In this episode of The Vertical Space, we sit down with Kevin Noertker, Co-founder and CEO of Ampaire, to explore the evolving landscape of electric aviation. Kevin shares his perspective on the industry's progress and challenges, particularly in relation to battery development and the delayed timelines for fully electric vehicles. We explore the differences between battery-only and hybrid propulsion, highlighting the advantages and limitations of both technologies. Kevin explains why hybrid ...
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rob Britton, Principal of AirLearn, who brings five decades of experience in commercial aviation. This fascinating conversation covers the history and future of the airline business, the significance of the hub-and-spoke model, the realities of aviation sustainability, and the challenges and opportunities for advanced and regional air mobility. Throughout the discussion, we explore the enduring value of aviation, the power of market forces, and the critic...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we’re thrilled to bring you a conversation with Jeff Luckett, President and founding member of UPS Flight Forward, a subsidiary of UPS. Since our podcast's inception in 2021, we’ve featured numerous OEMs and service providers from both advanced air mobility and traditional aviation. However, it’s not often that we get to hear directly from the buyers and industry leaders driving the demand for these cutting-edge technologies. Today, we dive...
In this episode, we’re excited to host Srdjan Kovacevic, CEO and co-founder of Orqa. Despite a low public profile, this Croatian team has made significant waves, initially through ultra-low latency FPV goggles for drone racing and now by building their own drones through a fully vertically integrated model. This strategy not only optimizes cost and performance but also positions Orqa as a strong Western alternative to DJI. Srdjan discusses his view that hardware in the small drone industry i...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we sit down with Libby Bahat, Head of the Aerial Infrastructure Department of the Israeli Civil Aviation Authority. Join us as we delve into what makes Israeli airspace unique, given its position as one of the most threatened airspaces in the world. We explore the Israel National Drone Initiative: its origins, surprising initiators, and current results. Learn about the costs of drone operations in Israel compared to other regions, and list...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we reconnect with Bobby Healy, CEO and Founder of Manna Drone Delivery. Bobby returns to discuss how Manna has not only met but exceeded initial expectations over the past two years. He dives deep into the details of Manna's unit economics, revealing how they achieve profitability with every flight, even when delivering a single cup of coffee. Bobby provides insights into the evolution of drone delivery over the past two years. He re...
1We are happy to welcome back David Stepanek, Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow. With his extensive experience and pragmatic insights, David provides a comprehensive view of the evolution and future of advanced air mobility. In this episode, we revisit earlier impressions and assumptions, exploring how they have matured over time. For those who have approached this field with caution and realism, this discussion validates your strategy and offers valuable new...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we chat with Don Berchoff, CEO of TruWeather, about the critical impact of weather on aviation. Don highlights how weather-induced uncertainty costs the industry billions and shares staggering numbers on preventable costs. He discusses how aviation has adapted to unreliable weather data and the potential for significant improvements in flight operations and cost reduction. Listen to Don's insights on the three key elements for better foreca...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our discussion with Niels Kalshoven, Head of Drone Innovation Program at Port of Rotterdam and Co-founder Drone Port Rotterdam. This is one of the few discussions where we're speaking with someone without an aviation, OEM, or advanced air mobility background, but with experience where drones will be used - in this case at a maritime port, the Port of Rotterdam. Building upon previous discussions with Andrew Hately, Niels delves into current and future d...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! Today we're joined by Dan Magy, founder and CEO of Firestorm, a California-based company developing low-cost and modular military UAS systems. Dan's entrepreneurial history includes the founding of Citadel in 2016, a counter drone company employing various technologies, including radio-frequency jamming to detect and mitigate unauthorized drone threats. As you can imagine, Dan's rich background sets the stage for a really insightful conversatio...
Welcome to another episode of The Vertical Space where we sit down with Andrew Coleman, leader of GE Aerospace's software business. In this conversation, we explore the critical intersection of traditional aviation and advanced air mobility, delving into the effective use of data for meaningful insights. Discover how GE mines, analyzes, and provides data for aviation customers, and how this applies to the evolving landscape of advanced air mobility. From discussing the perception of the value...
Welcome to The Vertical Space podcast and a discussion with Lorne Cass, an aviation executive who most recently served as Vice President of American Airlines' Integrated Operations Center, and is the current RTCA Chair. Lorne knows where aviation has been, where it is today and talks about how he believes we're going forward in aviation. You'll enjoy Lorne's overview of the aviation industry, airline operations, and the challenges faced by airline operations. Few can tell you better abo...
In today's episode, we sit down with Uma Subramanian, a seasoned aviation expert with a wealth of experience in the industry. Having known Uma for many years, we've been really eager to bring her insights to our audience. From her time as an engineer working on F-18s, to doing corporate development and strategy at Rolls Royce, to leading the urban air mobility network Voom, an Airbus company, to being the founding CEO of Aero, an airline catering to premium passengers, from March 2019 to Sept...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space and a conversation with Andrew Hately - a senior researcher in the Drone unit at the EUROCONTROL Innovation Hub in France - about U-Space, UTM, and ATM. Andrew emphasizes the necessity of radical steps to integrate the airspace for UAS traffic management, suggesting that without such integration, UAS operations may not be economically viable. He particularly focuses on U-Space, discussing its origins, current status, requirements, and the challenges i...
Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a conversation with Eric Leopold, a long time veteran of IATA, the International Air Transport Association. We start the conversation talking about the state of the airline industry and its current priorities such as the post COVID recovery, digital transformation and sustainability. As most of you know, there are large regional differences in the maturity of the industry and therefore priorities, so we generalize the discussion on bottlenecks that airli...
Welcome to our conversation with Eric Watson from Zipline. You can’t help but be impressed with the inspiring and important work that Zipline has done with their partners in Africa – with medical and healthcare outcomes that are remarkable. So, you will really enjoy hearing about Zipline and their first platform in Africa – Eric gives an excellent overview. We then transition to their work in the United States with their Platform 2. We discuss how their experiences in Africa help...
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