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Deconstructing Mamas

Author: Lizz Enns Petters and Esther Joy Goetz

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If you are trying to figure out how to navigate the tricky tightrope of parenting while you have questions, doubts and wonderings about your spiritual journey, this podcast is for you. It doesn't matter if your kids are smalls, middles, or bigs. We will explore what and how we are deconstructing from churchianity, harmful belief systems, and diving deep into the ways we can work this out in parenthood. We will also work through ideas for reconstructing a space for our families to thrive under new systems of love and freedom. We can't wait to bring you some hope that you are not alone and that it's really okay, even good, to explore all the possibilities that may have felt closed off in the past. This podcast will offer you grace and space to be exactly where you are and who you are. We are glad you are here.
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“You aren't going to mess up your kids' theology." (Sarah Swartzendruber) The brilliant Sarah Swartzendruber is our guest this week on the podcast. Sarah is a mama, pastor, kid's faith curriculum creator (Zippee) and cohort leader for Parenting After Deconstruction. Most of the parents who reach out to her know what they don't want to teach their kids, but they have no idea what they do want for their families. Sarah's passion is helping parents in deconstruction create healthy spiritual practices for their kids that answer the question, "What now? How can we do this well?"On this episode, we unpack the "tricky tightrope" of sorting through our own faith and spirituality while trying to raise our kids and Sarah works to empower us with the freedom to reimagine what parenting our kids with a healthy spirituality might look like. We also chat about where to start when it comes to what we pass along to our kids and you might be surprised, not surprised. We answer these three questions: 1. We said it in our intro, your quote, “You aren’t going to mess up your kids’ theology.” But what if we feel like we will and we are?2. How do we unwind our own fears from how we interact with our children and their faith journey?3. What are some ways that we can meet our kids in their curiosity about God, heaven, Jesus, etc. Sarah is brilliant, imaginative and funny, while at the same time, a kick-butt theologian who will help you to feel like you've got what it takes to walk this "tricky tightrope" in confidence and clarity, but mostly in compassion and curiosity. Don't miss out!You can find the Sarah in these spaces:Instagram: @parentingafterdeconstructionWebsite: www.parentingafterdeconstuction.com 
“Self-discovery is the goal. Self-compassion is the vibe." (Trisha Wilkerson)We start off Season Five with Trisha Wilkerson as our guest this week on the podcast. And it's really good! Trisha is a deconstructing mama, author, former pastor's wife turned certified Nutrition Coach. She works with individuals and groups, guiding a behavioral change process towards increasing overall wellness. Her style is wholeheartedness, with curiosity and gentle challenges.Trisha's journey in Transformation, Healing, and Holistic Wellness began in the Church, where she learned to listen and love. 25 years in the Evangelical Church taught me much about walking with brokenness and pain and learning how to heal. She learned how to lead people, counsel, write, and coach.But along the way, she began to discover uncomfortable truths about extreme religion and the trauma that results from the disconnection from our bodies and, in all honesty, disconnection from ourselves. She also researched the way diet culture and extreme religion are intertwined and how we can untangle the harmful messages of judgment and shame and move into a space of compassionate curiosity and deep connection with our bodies.On this episode, our fascinating conversation leads us into the murky waters of diet culture and how extreme religion was the perfect space for all the harmful messages surrounding the body and the constant striving for perfection. We also discover new ways of engaging with food, our "already good" bodies and the recovery of souls along the way. This time around, we find out, not what we need to be teaching our kids about faith, God and themselves, but what what they have to teach us.Trisha is kind, gentle and passionate and views journeying with others now as such an adventure– with not one destination! Embracing mystery has emboldened her to be curious and love people with more gentleness and dignity. Advocating for people has meant that she step into their stories with them and together seek change for their individual growth and healing.And pretty soon, she will have a book out called "Already Good" How Diet Culture and Religion Exploit Our Desires For Worthiness. Not sure about you, but we can't wait to get it.You can find the Trisha in these spaces:Instagram: @trisharwilkersonWebsite (her Wellness Coaching practice): www.trishawilkerson.com
“Chronic trauma can overwhelm our internal coping resources. Trauma disrupts the same system that regulates our body’s stress response causing a hyperactive fight-or-flight reaction. It’s not just all in our head. It’s in our bodies too. (Brittany Moses) Guess what??? The guests on our podcasts this week are...drum roll please... us.We are closing out Season Four with a conversation with just the two of us.We dive deep into THE STRUGGLE to heal our spiritual trauma and how our bodies have suffered and how reconnecting with our them is a messy, but necessary and beautiful business and vital to our overall journey to heal. The struggle is real, friends. Truly.We even chat about hell and Christmas and how we are finding ways to resist (both internally and externally) the messages we've received about those two things, plus a whole bunch of others.We love having our podcast and we are so grateful that you would take the time to listen. We will be back with a full and amazing line-up in just three months.You can find the two of us at the following spaces: LIZZ ENNS PETTERS: Instagram: @lizzennspetters Facebook: Lizz Enns Petters, the Deconstructed Mama Website: elizabethpetters.comESTHER JOY GOETZ: Instagram: @estherthedollymama Facebook: Esther, the Dolly Mama Website: estherjoygoetz.com
“Admitting we could be wrong about the things we are most convinced of, that are so fundamental to who we are, is painful and becoming someone new is scary.” (an excerpt from Godbreathed, Zack Hunt)Zack Hunt (sometimes known as Zaack Hunt around the internet, a deconstructing dad, former pastor, prolific author and BBQ magician extraordinaire, is our guest this week. Zack has spent the last decade writing about the interplay of faith and politics and when not doing that good work, he can be found traveling and trying out new restaurants with his wife, playing with their two little girls, and sneaking out onto his back porch trying to smoke the perfect rack of ribs on his beloved smoker.After we dive into Zack's never-ending and evolving faith journey, we dive into the space of how he got to the place of "I might be wrong," and where that wild idea that has taken him.We speak about all kinds of fancy theological terms like exegesis and "sola scriptura," but in the end of the day, we share stories about fear and grief and walking this very nuanced and difficult road of parenting in this new found space and how LOVE is the beginning and end of the story.Zack's humor will have you laughing and his vulnerability will have you crying.  And you will find out why it matter so much that we are all God-breathed. Plus, you will find out why the heck most of his internet spaces are Zaack.  Listen in.You can find Za(a)ck at the following spaces:Instagram:  @zaackhuntFacebook:  Zack Hunt (but if you are searching, look for @zaackhunt)Twitter (not X according to Zack):  @zaackhuntWebsite:   zackhunt.net 
“My love, God is here when you choose goodness and are living from your heart. When you follow the path of love, God is with you from the start. And God is there when you mess up, if you make a choice that isn’t best. It  doesn’t mean you’re bad; it just means you’re human-like all the rest.” (an excerpt from My Love, God is Everywhere)Victoria Robb Powers and Cameron Vickrey, also known as the Reverend Mamas, are our guests this week on the podcast.  Victoria is the Senior Pastor at Royal Lane Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, and is the first female to pastor a Baptist church in the DFW Metroplex. She is a graduate of Baylor University and Brite Divinity School at TCU in Fort Worth. Victoria lives with her husband and three children in Lake Highlands. She loves to read, write, preach and teach.Cameron  is a graduate of Furman University and Wake Forest University School of Divinity. She currently works for Fellowship Southwest, sharing stories of ministry and mission along the US--Mexico border and advocating for migrants. She is also passionate about public education, and co-founded a nonprofit called RootEd, galvanizing parents of public school children to tell their stories and become advocates. Cameron lives in San Antonio with her family. Her free time is spent with her kids; wishing she were a gardener; teaching Sunday school to middle schoolers, and reading lots of books.On this episode, our conversation leads us to the deep questions of life and especially from kids about who God is and where God is and when God is.  We chat about subjects from soap operas and healthy theology to original sin vs original blessing to how reparenting ourselves while we parent our own kids is deeply healing.Their children's book, My Love, God is Everywhere, is a new favorite of ours and both Lizz and Esther have experienced its healing nature for us as grown ups (I think they both use it devotionally) and also the beautiful message it has for our kids.At one point in the episode, which you have to listen to find out, both Lizz and Esther had their pens out frantically writing something down that changed their perspectives forever.If you want to make room for your own child-like soul to breathe and heal, this is a must-listen to episode. Like seriously, folks. You can find the Reverend Mamas and their book in these spaces:Instagram:  @thereverendmamasMore about Their Book:  My Love, God is Everywhere 
"I would hope never to feel so confident in my theology as not to be willing to correct a wrong view once presented with compelling evidence." Chad Bahl (Deconstructing Hell)Chad Bahl is our podcast guest this week. Chad is a theologian, step-dad and author. Chad is also a kind, humble, deep, brilliant soul who is on a personal mission to seek the whole truth no matter what the cost.On this episode, after we find out one of Chad's fun and super unique hobbies and his surprising day job, we take a deep dive into Open and Relationship Theology (think and un-controlling, loving and co-partnering kind of God), the problem of evil, but mostly the horrific and toxic theology over Eternal Conscious Torment (otherwise known as Hell as many of us grew up understanding it).We also talk about our the book that Chad compiled and edited that Lizz and Esther had a chance to be a part of called Deconstructing Hell and how each one of us got to the place where, as we like to say in these parts, "hell is OFF the table." And then, especially how this "hell" thing plays out in parenting (hint, it's awful).This conversation will pretty much get you thinking out of the box and free you from that box that has kept you afraid and small. Because, being pushed by fear is terrible, but being led by love is something entirely beautiful.You can find Chad in these spaces:Facebook:  Chad BahlFacebook Group:  Deconstructing HellInstagram:  @bahlchadWebsite:   thelaytheologian.com
“In a time when we love to keep ourselves separated from one another with our ideologies and beliefs, liminality asks how we exist in those in between spaces.” - Kaitlin Curtis (Living Resistance)Kaitlin Curtice is our podcast guest this week. Kaitlin is an award-winning author, poet-storyteller, and public speaker. As an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi nation, Kaitlin writes on the intersections of spirituality and identity and how that shifts throughout our lives.She also speaks on these topics to diverse audiences who are interested in truth-telling and healing.As an inter-spiritual advocate, Kaitlin participates in conversations on topics such as colonialism in faith communities, and she has spoken at many conferences on the importance of inter-faith relationships.On this episode, we find out what Kaitlin means by liminal space and why it is such an important part of our spiritual journey. This fascinating discussion leads us into ways we can engage in the unknown, wilderness of deconstructing and parenting.We also chat about Kaitlin's new children's book, Winter's Gifts, the tale of a young Potawatomi girl named Dani whose family celebrates the darkest season of the year by treasuring the slowness that winter brings to our families.If you struggle with winter and want to you allow yourself to experience the gifts of the season that might seem bleak and hopeless, this episode is exactly what you need to hear. We sure did.You can find Kaitlin in these spaces:Instagram:  @kaitlincurticeFacebook:  Kaitlin B. CurticeWebsite:   kaitlincurtice.com
“Following Jesus out of the entanglements of Christian supremacy and white supremacy are deep convictions. We believe God desires so much more from the Church than the frequently empty religiosity and hypocrisy we have become adjusted to.”  --Dr. Drew Hart Dr. Drew Hart, black activist, racial reconciliation expert, biblical studies professor and father of three boys, is our guest this week. Drew is the author of Trouble I've Seen and Who Will Be A Witness. Following Jesus out of the entanglements of Christian supremacy and white supremacy are deep convictions of Drew. He believes God desires so much more from the Church than the frequently empty religiosity and hypocrisy we have become adjusted to. When we begin to envision God’s dream for us together, we can strive for the flourishing of all people by doing justice and the things that make for peace.On this episode, we talk with Drew about his unique story being raised in a black evangelical church in a diverse suburb of Philadelphia and what happened to him upon going to a mostly white Christian college. What happened and why did that change the course of his life forever?We also unpack what it means to have true solidarity with those who are marginalized and oppressed and how we, as the privileged, can begin the work in our own hearts and in the lives of our children.This episode is chock-full of goodness and it is definitely one that you do not want to miss. Especially if racial reconciliation feels overwhelming and you don't know where to start.You can find Drew in these spaces:Instagram:  @druhartFacebook:  Drew G.I. HartWebsite:   drewgihart.com 
Kyndall Rae Rothaus, a preacher, poet, feminist theologian, spiritual director, and preaching coach, is our guest this week.  She is the author of Thy Queendom Come: Breaking Free from Patriarchy to Save Your Soul (2021) and Preacher Breath (2015). She is the co-founder and Executive Director of Nevertheless She Preached, a national, ecumenical preaching conference designed to elevate the voices of womxn on the margins and the founder of the Soul of Preaching Project.Kyndall is a sought-after public speaker whose piercing insights into the human spiritual condition are delivered with poetic and rhetorical brilliance. She is an award-winning preacher and spoken word artist. Kyndall spent eight years as a Senior Pastor in Baptist churches in Texas, where, among other things, she left a legacy of fighting for LGBTQ+ inclusion in the church before leaving institutional church work to start her own business working with individuals to heal from religious trauma and re-imagine their spirituality. Kyndall is a queer woman and the single mom of two adopted children who are the biggest joys of her life.On this episode, we uncover the big ideas behind the "Queendom of God" and also why being queer provides one beautiful way to move from being constrictive to a life that's expansive. Kyndall also talks about how hard and holy being a single, queer mom of two adoptive little girls is and the overarching message she wants these two beautiful souls to know in their bones.Kyndall is passionate and tender, knowledgeable and compassionate. She has a deep respect, awe, and curiosity towards those who come across her path and her work as a spiritual director is to bear compassionate witness to the depths of others' lives, and, where appropriate, call forth the transformation their soul is in the process of birthing themselves.This episode will have you nodding your head, feeling seen, and brimming with hope for your deconstructing future.You can find Kyndall in these spaces:Instagram:  @kyndallraerothausFacebook:  Kyndall Rae Rothaus, Author Website:   kyndallraerothaus.com 
This Week on the Podcast:Dr. Glenn Siepert, a deconstructing dad, former pastor, author and podcast host of the What If Project, is our guest this week.Glenn creates a safe space for people to explore this idea: What if there are ways of thinking about God and faith that are different than what our traditions have handed us? .On this episode, we ask a big What If question: what do we do with our grief during deconstruction? What if there are ways of thinking about and approaching grief than what our traditions have handed us?  What if the grief process can be very different and can be more healing and whole? What do we do now that we don't necessarily have the certainty about the afterlife that we once had?  And how does this work out in our parenting?Glenn is a kind-hearted, brilliant, and passionate soul who has walked the journey of grief, due to the recent death of his dad, and shares vulnerably with us in a way that will make you feel heard and held, and will give you some tools when you find yourself walking the path of loss.You can find Glenn at the following spaces:Instagram:  @what1fprojectFacebook:  What If ProjectTiktok:  @whatifprojectWebsite:   whatifproject.net 
Tara Teng, an Embodiment Coach who works in the intersections of spirituality and sexuality, is our guest this week. Tara helps people find their way back to their bodies, overcome shame, heal trauma and dismantle purity culture in a way that is in alignment with their values and beliefs so that they can build a healthy, sexual ethic and thrive in freedom and wholeness.On this episode, we explore the ways we have been separated from our bodies and consequently from each other and why that is so damaging to us.We also venture into what we can do now to become fully embodied so that we can heal and also how this works in the tricky tightrope of parenting and deconstructing and ways we can encourage embodiment in our kids.Tara, like Esther, is an Enneagram Eight and her passion for restoration and justice is empowering and enlightening. When you listen, her fierce tenderness will awaken your heart and it perhaps ignite a fire inside your soul. It sure did for us!You can find Tara at the following spaces:Instagram:  @misstaratengFacebook:  Tara TengWebsite:   www.tarateng.com 
Ericka Graham, freelance pastor and Bible-nerd extraordinaire, mama to two littles, recovering 12-stepper, and podcast hostess, is our guest this week.  Ericka has a passion for reframing the Bible to be a source of life and healing and spreading that word far and wide.On this episode, we dive deep into the hard spaces of OCD manifested in scrupulosity, drug addiction and herky-jerky recovery and the ways that the Bible has been used to harm others.We also lean into the hopeful ideas of radically loving ourselves, fighting for our healing and how Scripture can have a beautiful role in these when we come at it with a different posture.  And to boot, how important this all is in parenting!Talking with Ericka was like having lunch with a wise and vulnerable friend and also a nerdy and brilliant theologian.  It's a magical combination that you don't want to miss!!You can find Ericka at the following spaces:Instagram:  @mrserickagrahamPodcast:   Curiosly with Ericka Graham 
Dr. Eric Seibert, Old Testament scholar and professor, dad of tweens and teens, prolific author and Minecraft guru, (yes, you read that right) is our guest this week. Eric is passionate against churchce sanctioned violenebecause he is troubled by how much violence Christians condone and sometimes participate in. I do NOT believe this is what God intended," he says (with a little bit of umph in his voice).On this episode, we unpack why it's incredibly harmful to believe that God is a violent, but also supposedly loving God. Where does the notion come from? And why? Eric unpacks why violence is completely antithetical to love and has no part in the Christian faith.We also dive deep into the subject of Hell as eternal conscious torment and if and how Scripture approaches this subject and why the notion of hell contributes to a more controlling, violent parenting model vs. an un-controlling, self-giving model, perhaps even informing how we might discipline our children. We actually tackle the subject of spanking. When we spoke with Eric, it felt warm and inviting, yet somehow, provocative and motivational. Eric embodies non-violence in his being, yet makes room for a gentle strength that calls us to think in a way perhaps unknown to us before.You can find Eric's books at his author page on Amazon here:Dr. Eric Seibert 
We continue Season Four with Mary DeJong. Mary lives in Seattle, Washington's Rainier Valley in Columbia City, at Hedgewood, a home that for over a decade has hosted community connection through the reclamation and restoration of a neighborhood forest.Mary finds herself an eco-theologian and urban naturalist who delves into why place matters, the sacramentality of creation, and how together this informs the development of our ecological self. Mary terms this work “sacred eco-awakening” and sees this as a critical and holy endeavor as it allows us to come to grievous terms of our human history and to posture ourselves once again side-by-side with the whole of creation, putting our souls back in conversation with the anima mundi, the soul of the world. Her husband, four children, St. Findus and the Flock (a feral kitty and ten chickens and a duck!), medicinal and herbal “Hildagarden,” and yard—a Certified Wildlife Habitat—keep her busy when her pen does not.On this episode, we unpack what it means rewild, not only our outer landscapes, but mostly the inner landscape of our soul. We discover why wholeness and communion with the natural world so valuable and how rewilding our own stories can help us to reimagine our images of God, ourselves and even our parenting.Mary is passionate, brilliant and gentle. As you listen to this episode, you will find yourself immersed in your own inner soulscape, a place that longs to be restored to its beautiful wholeness. You'll feel both invigorated and at peace as you listen.You can find Mary's work, Waymarkers, at the following:Instagram:  @waymarkers Facebook:  Waymarkers Website:  waymarkers.net **RESOURCE ALERT**Commit to a soul journey through the whole wheel of the year! Every season that we move through throughout the year has tremendous potential and meaning for our soul formation.In the Wild Seasons rewilding courses, you will be companioned around the calendar of the year, deepening into the ways the more-than-human world resources you and expresses aspects of the Sacred Wild.Mary has so generously offered WILDAUTUMN20, a 20% discount code for Wild Autumn or the entire Wild Seasons series. Learn more about Wild Autumn here, and the bundled Wild Seasons series, which includes Wild Autumn, Wild Winter, Wild Spring, and Wild Summer.It’s wonderful teaching in a self-paced format, and provides a jumping place for families to begin exploring nature as their own holy place of worship, communion, and sacred connection. 
We are so excited to launch Season Four with Dr. Laura E. Anderson, the author of that wisdom.  Dr. Laura is a psychotherapist, trauma resolution coach and consultant, writer and educator specializing in complex and developmental trauma, dynamics of power and control and religious trauma. She views herself as still a work in progress. She believes healing is a life-long process rather than a point you get to where you say “there, I am done, healed.” However, who she is today is quite different and she is proud of who she's become as a result of healing her nervous system, resolving trauma and recovering from high demand/high control religion.On this episode, we unpack what it means to uncouple sex from pleasure and reclaim our right and ability to experience pleasure and, of course, sexual pleasure in a way that feels safe and empowering at the same time. We also work through how we can begin to reflect this in the way we parent our children and reparent ourselves.Dr. Laura is brilliant, kind, and practical. As you listen to this episode, we believe you will feel as if you've had an initial therapy session and we hope to give you help to take more and more steps toward healing from the trauma of purity culture.You can find Dr. Laura at the following:Instagram:  @drlauraeanderson Facebook:  Dr. Laura E Anderson Website:  drlauraeanderson.com 
Annalise Hume, is our guest on our perfectly-timed summer bonus episode. Annalise is a passionate, creative, down-to-earth mover who loves listening and asking questions to help others recognize the movement of God in their life.After growing up in Boise, Idaho, she earned a BFA in Dance, spending a year touring with a performing-arts organization in South Africa upon graduation.Before moving to South Africa, she met an amazing South African who happened to live in Idaho. They got married and landed in Princeton, New Jersey where Annalise earned her MDiv as well as my MA in Christian Education and Formation from Princeton Theological Seminary.After seminary, Annalise felt a deep pull toward training as a spiritual director and completed a two-year Spiritual Direction training program with Oasis Ministries.Now she teaches, facilitates movement workshops, and offers Spiritual Direction with the hope of helping individuals and groups take steps toward wholeness and flourishing. In her spare time, you will find her walking around outside barefoot, dancing in the kitchen with her son, watching tennis matches, going to the theater, dreaming up her next trip, and playing with her whoodle puppy.On this episode, Annalise flips the script of a disembodied faith, one where we deny ourselves and try to control our "flesh" (because it is evil) and offers a completely different point of view, one that brings us back into our bodies (because they are sacred) and celebrate them as integral to our experience of faith. Annalise believes that as Christians who confess faith in an Incarnated Christ, the Word made Flesh, our embodied experience must matter and our bodies are central to our human flourishing.This episode will enlighten you and help you to return to yourself. And be prepared right in the middle of it to stop what you are doing as Annalise has you engage in an embodied spiritual practice that will help you discover where you find yourself today.Plus, find out what all this means for parenting in a new way, one that helps children express themselves and lean into the beautiful mystery of how their bodies are the place where their spirits speak (hint: it's the same for us too).Annalise not only provides individual spiritual direction and embodied faith classes, she has a very special group spiritual direction for moms called, "Sacred Companions for the Mystery of Motherhood."  You don't want to miss out!!You can find Annalise at the following:Instagram:  @embodiedfaithproject Website:  withannalise.com  
Bekah McNeel is our final guest of Season Three.  Bekah is a native of San Antonio, Texas, where she has been a reporter for nine years. Her work has appeared in print with Christianity Today, The San Antonio Current, and the Public Justice Review, as well as online with the Christian Science Monitor, Sojourners, the Texas Tribune, the Hechinger Report, The 74 Million, and numerous local outlets.Bekah calls herself a story-teller, but she is especially known for her ability to communicate the high stakes of education and immigration policy and bring clarity to complex systems. Bekah keeps the human beings most affected at the front of her coverage.Bekah is married to Lewis McNeel, an architect. They have two young children who, while they do not yet have careers, are very busy (winky face). On this episode, which was prompted by Bekah's recent book, Bringing Up Kids When Church Lets You Down, we chat through all the ups and downs of parenting while deconstructing. This is one of those conversations that will make you wanting more and yet feeling so full at the same time.Bekah is brilliant, a bit snarky in a wonderful way, highly self-aware of her strengths and struggles and gives us solid reasons why this whole parenting journey is not about our kids. It's mostly about us. How can we reparent ourselves in this new faith and freedom that we find ourselves in, while also trying to heal from the harm that's been done to us so that we do not pass it along to our children.You can find Bekah at the following:Instagram:  @wanderbekah Facebook:  Bekah McNeel Website:  bekahmcneel.com 
Matt Mattson, the "starter" of  both the BETWEEN community and Today I Pray For You project on Instagram and Facebook, is our guest this week.  Matt dreams of creating a global relational religious movement. Matt believes “church” (and faith exploration) can and should happen in our conversations with others.He's passionate that the space between us is sacred, a holy space. The way we fill that space — the choices about the way we interact with people — is our faith-come-to-life. He wants your coffee shop chats, your small talk in line at the grocery store, your social media interactions, and your dinner table conversations to feel sacred and holy. Because they are. God (however you understand that idea) lives in the space between us. Matt has some a fun professional background that he's really proud of (Learn more about him here) and lives in Colorado with his wife and two daughters. Matt believes so deeply that he was put on this planet to help people gather together to talk about the important stuff of life.Matt's not a pastor or a guru or a priest. Just a person. Like you.In this episode, Matt takes us all on the ride of our lives with his story-telling, his passion, and especially his vulnerability. We find out four core principles that he embodies both at work and especially at home with his family.We both were riveted as Matt spoke and believe you will be too. Get ready for a good one!You can find Matt's passion projects at the following:Instagram:  @todayiprayforyou Facebook:  Today I Pray for You Website:  Between.ChurchFacebook Group:  BETWEEN Church YouTube:  @betweenchurchSign Up for Newsletter HERE
Liz Mall, apologist (fancy word for someone who uses "argument" and "reason" to make a point that something is or isn't true and she has her masters in this area of expertise), deconstructing mama of three littles and podcast hostess, is our guest this week.She and her cohost provide incredible resources for both faith deconstruction and reconstruction. They tackle subjects like hell, Biblical genocide, purity culture and even head-coverings (for those of you forced to wear them - yes, it's a thing).  Liz is witty and smart and kind and knows her stuff. When she's not wrangling her three littles, you can find her doing yoga or solving the world's problems in conversations with like-minded people (like us), both her kitchen table and over Zoom.In this episode, we tackle it ALL. Nothing is off the table. Things like "should kids read the Bible and when" and "what are some very practical steps (five to be exact) can we take when our family and friends ask us to give an apology (not the "I'm sorry" kind, but the "prove yourself" kind) for why we are deconstructing.You will leave this episode feeling empowered to continue forward on this difficult and freeing journey to figure out what you believe and why it matters.Make sure you do NOT miss out!You can find Liz at the following:Instagram:  @deconstructingthemyth Facebook:  Deconstructing the Myth 
Melissa Neeb, author, deconstructing mama of two teens, avid photographer, and podcast hostess is our guest this week.Her mantra is "love big, live kind" and there could be nothing truer about Melissa. She's highly committed to loving without strings, inclusive of everyone who walks into her home or her life and kindness is her main squeeze.When she's not caring for babies at her day job, you can find her loving on all of her fur babies (six of them to be exact), writing furiously for social media, photographing nature and always always showing up for her teens (oh yeah, there's a husband somewhere in there too).Melissa's tender spirit and fierce passion sit side-by-side and she tells it like it is. On this episode, we are reminded that we have permission to "tear it all down to the ground," and rebuild our faith any which way that feels true and beautiful to us. We also talk about what we can do when our kids are on very different faith pages and how we can allow them to have their own journeys to God.You will find yourself seen, known and understood and especially empowered to walk in the truth and light of your very own faith journey.Make sure you do NOT miss out!You can find Melissa at the following:Faith in The Mess ("love big, live kind")Instagram:  @faith_in_the_mess Facebook:  Faith in the Mess by Melissa Neeb  Never Empty Nest (how to mom teens)Instagram:  @never_empty_nest Facebook:  Never Empty Nest by Melissa Neeb 
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Comments (1)

Deb Haken

Lizz, where ate you in Harrisburg? I live in Hershey and my husband and I were former missionaries for 25 years with Wycliffe, and then in church work for 11 years and in the past 10 years have totally deconstructed and now are members of the Unitarian church of Harrisburg! Deb Haken 2105 Sand Hill Rd Hershey

Oct 17th
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