Side by Side

Side-by-Side definition: 1. beside one another 2. in the same place, time, or circumstance. What does it mean for rural and urban communities to live side by side? Rural sociologists have described urban and rural fates as being shared. Yet, we too often focus on rural and urban spaces as separate and divided entities. The rural-urban conversation is much more complex than we are led to believe. To prosper together, we will need to better understand how rural and urban communities are connected, to be each other’s allies, to learn from each other, and to work together to meet today’s biggest challenges. Join University of Minnesota Extension host Ellen Wolter as she explores the interdependent relationship between rural and urban spaces and talks with guests including Heidi Heitkamp, Tuleah Palmer, RT Rybak, Julie Tesch, Jake Loesch, Nadine Bill, Rhymefest, Tony Pipa, Brian Dabson, and Brigid Tuck about why this complex and necessary relationship matters.Season 1 episodes coming soon! Follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear the first episode when it releases on August 28th!For more information or to reach our team, connect with us at sidebyside@umn.edu.

In our first episode, former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp, now Director of University of Chicago’s Institute of Politics (IOP), discusses the vital connections between rural and urban America. She shares her experiences growing up in a small town and explains the goals behind IOPs recent Bridging the Divide conference to bring rural and urban Americans together. The conversation touches on the importance of authentic storytelling and the ways in which rural and urban spaces need each other.Episode Highlights:00:26 Sen. Heitkamp on Rural-Urban Connections01:42 Growing Up in North Dakota04:37 The One Country Project08:13 Sen. Heitkamp's Seminar, "Policies and Politics to Heal America's Regional Divide"09:06 Economic and Cultural Contributions of Rural America13:11 Institute of Politics Bridging the Divide Conference Reflections22:45 Future Initiatives and Hometown Internships23:49 Challenges and Misconceptions of Rural America30:43 Sen. Heitkamp's Love of ExtensionMore Information:Heidi Heitkamp, Institute of Politics, https://politics.uchicago.edu/fellows/former-fellows/heidi-heitkamp Institute of Politics, Bridging the Divide Conference, https://politics.uchicago.edu/get-involved/bridging-the-divideSarah Smarsh and Rhymefest: Transforming Narratives, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIPdHhZV0w8UMN Extension, How to shift the rural-urban discussion toward an appreciation for interdependence, https://extension.umn.edu/community-news-and-insights/how-shift-rural-urban-discussion-toward-appreciation-interdependence UMN Extension, Rural-urban interdependence resources, https://extension.umn.edu/community-development/rural-urban-interdependence Benya Kraus, mentioned during this conversation, served on the planning committee for IOP's Bridging the Divide conference. Benya is the co-founder of Lead for America, https://www.leadforamerica.org/. Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information. Sign up for our newsletter here. 

In this episode, Ellen interviews Nick Jacobs, co-author of "The Rural Voter," about the nuances of rural America and how they are often overlooked when we consider the complex relationship between rural and urban spaces. They discuss the methodology behind Nick’s research and the challenges of surveying rural populations. They also delve into "rural resentment" and the persistent misconceptions about rural and urban communities, despite examples of shared commonalities.Episode Highlights:01:00 The Beginnings of "The Rural Voter"04:50 Challenges in Surveying Rural America09:56 The Gap Effect19:07 Rural Resentment vs. Rural Rage29:00 Economic Integration in Rural Communities33:42 Shared Sense of FateMore Information:Nick Jacobs bio, https://web.colby.edu/nfjacobs/The Rural Voter, https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-rural-voter/9780231211581 New Book on Rural America Started with a False Conclusion, Then Looked For Evidence-The Daily Yonder, https://dailyyonder.com/commentary-white-rural-rage-which-came-first-the-title-or-the-research/2024/03/06/ How ‘Rural Studies’ Is Thinking About the Heartland - The New York Times (nytimes.com), https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/business/rural-studies-american-politics.htmlUMN Extension Rural-Urban Interdependence, https://extension.umn.edu/community-development/rural-urban-interdependence Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

R. T. Rybak and Tuleah Palmer lead the most urban and rural Minnesota foundations. They both wrote editorials in the Star Tribune in 2023 about the importance of rural-urban interdependence in Minnesota. In this conversation, Ellen Wolter moderates a discussion between Tuleah and R.T. about the intricate interdependence between rural and urban Minnesota. They delve into personal stories, economic insights, historical context, and the shared commitments needed to foster cohesive policy developments that encompass all of Minnesota.Episode Highlights:01:33 Meet Tuleah and R.T. and Where They Call Home07:48 Economic Interdependence09:50 Historical Context and Philanthropy12:51 Challenges and Opportunities in Rural-Urban Relations29:59 The Role of Media and Perception43:13 Future Directions and Collaborative Efforts More Information:Tuleah Palmer Bio, https://blandinfoundation.org/about/our-people/staff-members/tuleah-palmer/#:~:text=Born%20in%20Deer%20River%2C%20Minn,rich%20soil%20of%20Aitkin%20County.R.T. Rybak Bio, https://www.minneapolisfoundation.org/team/Tuleah Palmer's editorial can be found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20230627130358/https://www.startribune.com/minnesotas-future-urban-and-rural-minnesota-need-each-other-more-than-ever/600285459/R.T. Rybak’s editorial can be found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20230801164203/https://www.startribune.com/minnesotas-future-rugged-togetherness-has-always-been-states-secret/600293810/ Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here. 

In this episode, Ellen talks with Julie Tesch from the Center for Rural Policy and Development and Jake Loesch from Citizens League. Julie and Jake discuss their "Interconnected" conversation series, which explores shared challenges between rural and urban communities and opportunities for designing effective statewide systems. Since 2020, the Interconnected series has covered topics such as childcare, workforce development, housing, and most recently, youth mental health. Julie and Jake share insights they have gained from the series including the importance of collaborating between rural and urban communities, breaking down stereotypes, and fostering nuanced conversations.Episode Highlights:05:24 Exploring the Interconnected Series10:09 Addressing Misconceptions and Stereotypes14:43 Impact and Surprises from the Interconnected Series31:49 The Importance of NuanceMore Information:Center for Rural Policy and Development, https://www.ruralmn.org/Citizens League, https://citizensleague.org/ Interconnected Series, https://mailchi.mp/ruralmn/inteconnected-conversation-seriesQuestions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this episode, artist and rapper Che "Rhymfest" Smith discusses his experiences growing up in Chicago and his transformative experiences in Cody, Wyoming. Che reflects on how art can foster cultural communion and play a key role in bridging differences. Episode Highlights:02:15 Che's Chicago Roots and Early Influences06:45 Founding the Art of Culture12:42 Cultural Communion and Rural Connections14:22 Experiences in Cody, Wyoming18:59 Bridging Rural and Urban Spaces30:10 Running for Chicago School Board38:58 Final ThoughtsMore Information:Art of Culture, https://www.artofculture.org/Che "Rhymefest" Smith, https://www.cheworldwide.com/bio/Che "Rhymefest" Smith Bridging the Divide Conference Transforming Narratives Session, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIPdHhZV0w8&list=PLkFZB_XMYMJYmQoyhE9_XLAS1PD1vZlEK&index=2 Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this episode, Ellen connects with Jane Leonard, former president of Growth & Justice. Jane has worked across various sectors in Minnesota since 1979, including journalism, rural and economic development, and technology advancement. Jane shares her experiences from her early days as a journalist in a small town to leading statewide initiatives focused on rural development and rural-urban interdependence. She discusses the changing dynamics between rural and urban areas over the decades, highlighting both the connections and disconnections. Jane talks about previous initiatives like the Thriving by Design Minnesota Equity Blueprint that aims to foster intentional understanding of rural-urban interdependence in Minnesota and the need to foster relationships across different geographies to address common challenges such as housing and child care.Episode Highlights:02:05 Jane Leonard's Early Career05:31 Rural and Urban Connections and Disconnections12:00 Thriving by Design Network19:48 Historical Perspectives on Rural-Urban Dynamics22:27 Promoting Rural-Urban ConnectednessMore Information:Jane Leonard Bio, https://www.trilliumfamilyfoundation.org/bios/jane-leonard#:~:text=Jane%20Leonard%20is%20a%20nationally,thrive%2C%20rural%20and%20urban%20together.Minnesota Equity Blueprint, Thriving by Design-Minnesota Rural and Urban Together, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TWlUB1J9ODbQl_fXOIobg4_znWhFb0mX/view?usp=sharing Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this episode, Ellen talks with Nadine Bill, Executive Director of Red Lake Nation College's new site in downtown Minneapolis. Nadine shares the college's history, its commitment to language and cultural preservation, and the new Minneapolis site's objectives to expand education access to urban Indigenous communities. Nadine talks about Red Lake Nation College's goal to create a 'tribal college without borders,' addressing accessibility, and engaging both rural and urban Native students. She describes what many fail to understand about the relationship between rural and urban spaces as it relates to Native communities--including the impact of assimilation, Native American boarding schools, and the Indian Relocation Act of 1956. Moving forward, Nadine shares her hopes for the new Minneapolis site to serve as a hub for both Native and non-Native communities to learn and collaborate.Episode Highlights:04:29 History and Evolution of Red Lake Nation College08:06 Expansion to Minneapolis: Vision and Execution22:47 Connecting Rural and Urban Native Communities29:33 Using Technology To Increase Access36:09 Misconceptions About Rural and Urban Native Communities in Dominant Narratives40:19 Opportunities at the New Minneapolis SiteMore Information:Red Lake Nation College, https://www.rlnc.edu/Red Lake Nation College-Minneapolis, https://www.rlnc.edu/minneapolisMinnesota Compass Native American Profile https://www.mncompass.org/topics/demographics/cultural-communities/native-americanThe TRUTH Project: Towards Recognition and University-Tribal Healing, https://sites.google.com/view/truthproject/about?authuser=0Uprooted: The 1950s plan to erase Indian Country (American Public Media Reports), https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/11/01/uprooted-the-1950s-plan-to-erase-indian-country Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this episode, Ellen talks with Brian Dabson, a rural policy researcher, and one of the few analysts exploring rural-urban interdependence in the United States. Brian explains the significance of rural-urban interdependence as being essential for economic and social development. He shares the limitations of current definitions for rural and urban and the need for refined metrics, research, and policies to truly capture the value of rural spaces, particularly in the face of climate change. Insights about economic development, environmental preservation, and cultural approaches to land use highlight the complex dilemmas of rural-urban policy. Brian also shares insights from international models and suggests that America's policy can learn from such frameworks to address rural-urban connections more effectively.Episode Highlights:05:53 What is Rural-Urban Interdependence? 07:52 Alternative Rural Metrics 10:53 Valuing Rural Contributions23:01 Economic Priorities vs. Environmental Values25:22 Rural Protection Zones: A Global Perspective29:04 Challenges in Rural-Urban Research34:06 Exploring New RegionalismMore Information:https://www.briandabson.com/about/Select Articles by Brian DabsonRegional Solutions for Rural and Urban Challenges Collaborative Rural Development and Regional Economic Activity Our Shared Fate, Aspen InstituteQuestions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this week's episode, Ellen talks with Tony Pipa senior fellow at the Brookings Institution about the significance of rural policy and its outdated approaches. Tony discusses the essential role rural areas play in providing energy, food, and manufacturing for urban centers, emphasizing the need for a cohesive national rural strategy. Tony also highlights the Reimagining Rural Initiative at Brookings, which seeks to modernize rural policy. He underscores the importance of understanding rural-urban interconnectivity in policy-making and shares experiences from international settings where rural-urban ties are better integrated. The episode also explores how regional coalitions and economic projects can foster collaboration between rural and urban areas to ensure sustainable growth and economic vitality.Episode Highlights:02:51 Reimagining Rural Policy05:07 Challenges and Opportunities in Rural Policy11:59 Building Rural-Urban Connections25:17 International Perspectives on Rural-Urban Interdependence31:30 Changing the Narrative: Rural and Urban Interdependence35:57 Tony's Podcast: Reimagine RuralMore Information:Tony Pipa Bio, https://www.brookings.edu/people/anthony-f-pipa/Reimagine Rural Policy Initiative, https://www.brookings.edu/collection/reimagining-rural-policy/Tony's Reimagine Rural Podcast Series, https://www.brookings.edu/tags/reimagine-rural/Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this episode, Ellen welcomes colleague Brigid Tuck, an economist at the University of Minnesota Extension, who sheds light on a 2011 study demonstrating economic interdependence between rural and urban areas in Minnesota. Conducted in collaboration with Minnesota Rural Partners, the study highlights how economic changes in either region can significantly impact the other, particularly in the agribusiness and manufacturing sectors. Brigid describes how Minnesota's urban areas benefit economically from improved prosperity among its rural neighbors and vice versa. Additionally, the discussion covers the ever-evolving definitions of 'rural and 'urban' that affect research methodologies and policy decisions. Brigid also shares her insights into what people get wrong about rural and urban communities in Minnesota.Episode Highlights:05:04 Key Findings from An Economic Rural-Urban Interdependence Study11:22 Defining Rural and Urban Areas18:09 Common Misconceptions About Rural and Urban AreasMore Information:Brigid Tuck Bio, https://experts.umn.edu/en/persons/brigid-a-tuck Urban vs. rural? More like urban and rural together, study says | UMN Extension, https://extension.umn.edu/vital-connections/urban-vs-rural-more-urban-and-rural-together-study-saysGreater Minnesota and Twin Cities 7-County Metro Area Jobs by Industry, 2024, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wEhyR3CMPD7E91dYdNzj9W_8ky00yL4j/view?usp=drive_link Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey-https://z.umn.edu/9wtp. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In the final episode of Side by Side's first season, Ellen talks with photographer John Noltner, founder of ‘A Peace of My Mind,’ a storytelling project that captures personal stories and portraits to foster dialogue across divides. John discusses the human tendency to avoid challenging preconceived notions and how storytelling deepens our understanding of each other and breaks down stereotypes. John reflects on his experiences from Skid Row in Los Angeles to the deep South of Mississippi and border towns in Texas, highlighting the interconnectedness of rural, urban, and suburban communities and the immense pride that individuals have for their communities. Episode Highlights:03:44 John's Background and Origins of "A Peace of My Mind"07:51 The Impact of Feeling Seen10:50 Common Ground in Rural and Urban Communities18:46 The Danger of a Single Story20:40 Surprising Stories from Mississippi and LA27:45 Sharing Stories and Creating ImpactMore Information:A Peace of My Mind, https://apeaceofmymind.org/Stories from New York Mills, MN:https://apeaceofmymind.org/2023/12/20/belonging-2-0/Stories from skid row in Los Angeles, CA, https://apeaceofmymind.org/2021/07/06/vincent-turner/Stories from Oxford, MI, https://apeaceofmymind.org/2023/04/18/duncan-gray/Questions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey: https://z.umn.edu/9wtp. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.Want to stay in touch? Sign up for our newsletter here.

In this special bonus episode, Ellen takes a break from working on season two to chat with her siblings, Megan and Keith, about their experiences growing up in rural Montana and North Dakota and their journey to urban spaces. Megan, Ellen, and Keith reminisce about their unique childhood from being the only girl in fifth grade to walking home from school with the cows and loving the wide open lands. They ponder why they all ended up in cities, the stereotypes and misconceptions people have about both rural and urban spaces, and how community building looks very similar no matter where you live.   Little Megan, Ellen, and KeithMegan, Ellen, and Keith's "backyard" growing upMegan, Ellen, and Keith's "driveway" growing upQuestions, comments, want to get in touch?  Email us at sidebyside@umn.edu or share your feedback by completing a quick survey: https://z.umn.edu/9wtp. We share your feedback with funders and stakeholders about the value of this podcast and how you engage with the insights and information.