Marketing Panes

Guest Profile: Wayne Feltman Wayne Feltman is an accomplished sales management professional that has built a long-term career with VELUX Skylights, the world’s leading Skylight and Roof Window Manufacturer. Wayne started his career with VELUX as a territory sales representative and served in this capacity for about 4 years before advancing into a District Sales Management role overseeing the Eastern Great Lakes District for more than 20 years and most recently moved into a Business Development Management role responsible for the growth and development of the company’s Skylight Specialist Program across a 15-state area comprised of the greater Midwest. Prior to VELUX, Wayne grew up working alongside his father in the family’s retail hardware business but also spent some summer months working for his grandfather, a residential homebuilder. Wayne graduated from Ball State University with a Bachelor of Science from the university’s nationally ranked Business Management and Entrepreneurship Program and while in college, had co-founded and operated a Landscape Management Company giving him a combination of academic and a first-hand real-world experience on what it takes to start and run a successful small business. Through some early exposure to skylights, Wayne developed a passion for Skylights and Sun Tunnels due to their unique ability to transform space and bring an abundance of daylight and fresh air into the built environment where people live, work and play. Other Notes/Links: Velux Website: VeluxUSA.comContact: Reach out through the Velux website to connect with your local representative. pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://youtu.be/cmQdFuX4C08 Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00)Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. I’m your host, Will Hanke. Today we’re exploring a powerful but often overlooked opportunity, Skylight Shades. If you’ve ever thought skylights were just an architectural feature or dismissed shades as a niche product, you’ll want to stick around. My guest today is Wayne Feltman, a seasoned sales management professional with deep expertise in new business development, sales training, and residential construction. With a strong background in roofing materials, skylights, and solar hot water systems, he now leads efforts to expand the reach of Velux, skylights, and sun tunnels. In his current role, Wayne is passionate about empowering entrepreneurial minded individuals and build businesses that transform homes and lives with daylight and fresh air through a franchise like program that delivers turnkey success without the fees. Wayne, thank you so much for being on the show today. Wayne Feltman (01:08)Will, great to be here. Thanks for having us. Will Hanke (01:10)Yeah, I really appreciate it. So Wayne, could you start by giving the listeners a quick introduction and how, tell us how you got started in the industry. Wayne Feltman (01:18)Sure, absolutely. So I probably should start by just saying I’m based out of Indianapolis, Indiana, born and raised. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My dad owned hardware stores. So kind of grew up doing the retail hardware thing. And through that, we interacted with a lot of trades. My grandfather was a builder and spent some summers working with him, kind of being the runner and the clean up guy. that did lead to me getting into landscaping. My brother and I had started and ran a landscaping business for a number of years. I tried that, but ⁓ ultimately I had decided I wanted to go to college to be an architect. Initially went to school to be an architect, quickly found out in early 90s that a lot of those guys were struggling to find jobs. So changed my major. I was going to try to get a minor in business anyway, but ended up switching to going full-time business and entrepreneurship and management. Finished with my business degree. I continued to run the landscape management business part-time with my brother for a bit, but tried a few different things. Just to give you an idea, the diversity of my background was a stockbroker financial advisor for about a year, then got into computer system sales for about two to three years. And I was chasing the almighty dollar like a lot of us do coming out of college and just wasn’t happy, wasn’t enjoying what I was doing. And through some early experiences, with Skylights through my parents who had built or renovated a few homes where we incorporated Skylights. I knew a little bit about Velux and Skylights and saw that they were hiring a territory representative, applied for that position and had to do a pretty hard sales job on that. The hiring manager asked why a stockbroker turned computer sales guy turned landscaper wanted to sell Skylights for a living, but he took a chance on a kid. and hired me on and I was the Indiana Kentucky sales and territory rep for about four years. So that was kind of my ⁓ humble beginnings in terms of how I came to Velux and the rest is history as they say. Will Hanke (03:15)Wow, it’s always interesting to hear people’s backstories about the random things they did that really had nothing to do with where they landed. Love that. Wayne Feltman (03:22)For sure, for sure. But it really was some early exposures though. mean, had it not been, my parents had built a, well, the first exposure really was a lakeside condo, a real narrow kind of three story condo that we had built back in the 80s, early 80s actually. And they incorporated some skylights, vending skylights. And this was just a summer getaway for my parents. We didn’t vacation, that was our vacation, so to speak. Cause when you’re in retail, you’re seven, 24 seven. Will Hanke (03:49)Yeah Wayne Feltman (03:52)But we’d go up there and you know dad would have us go upstairs and open up the skylights to cool the place down because in the summer when we’d head up there be really hot ⁓ So that was my first kind of all-cott exposure at the time. You know, didn’t realize how relevant that would be in my life ⁓ And then several years later, we acquired a log cabin in southern, Indiana That was my grandfather something he had built back in the 60s And my mom wanted to always wanted to add a sunroom off to the back of it. So we hired a contractor And to his credit, he said, once we had this sunroom off the back of this house, we’re going to cut off the vertical windows going into that kitchen and dining area. And it’s going to get really dark. And to his credit, he said, I highly recommend we add some skylights not only over the kitchen area, but into the sunroom. And of course, we were pretty much on board with it because of our previous experience with skylights. But it was with that remodeling project that I really came to understand the value and power of skylights. it totally, and this is a dark log cabin. And it just totally transformed the space. ⁓ And we went on to add skylights to the boathouse, to a gazebo, to a detached garage. I definitely live and breathe it these days, and we practice what we preach. Will Hanke (04:59)Yeah, so you’ve been with the company more than two decades. What’s kept you excited about Skylights all these years? Wayne Feltman (05:05)Yeah, you know, when I first hired on, like I said, I was a territory rep for Indiana and Kentucky and really enjoyed the job, moved up into a district management role for about 20 years. And then here the last few years, I’ve been in a business development role across the greater Midwest. So I went from a state and a half to six states as a district manager to now about 15, 16 states. So with those roles comes a different focus. But really, it’s just the variety of what we do. We interact with every type of trade. So we interact with roofers, builders, architects, remodelers. ⁓ So when you’re doing that variety of interactions, it just never gets boring, quite honestly. And then Velux, the company, I mean, every few years we’re bringing something new to market. It’s a very innovative company, builds quality products. ⁓ So just as you think you got your head around everything that we make and sell, they throw a curveball at us and introduce something new. I think for all those reasons, know, it’s been 26 years, but I’ll be honest, some of my earlier career or jobs, I should say, seem like they were a lot longer than my 26 years at velux despite only being a year or two. Will Hanke (06:20)Yeah. For dealers that are not familiar, what does ventilation and light really mean in practice? Wayne Feltman (06:27)Yeah, no, great question. Actually, it’s fundamental to our company and our founding. So actually the name Velux is the root of two Latin words, V-E for ventilation, LUX, the Latin word for light. And just to give you a quick snapshot of the background of the company, mean, our founder was actually a glazing engineer by training and was given the task of converting attic spaces to classrooms. So this was back in 1941. There was a war going on. We’re based in Denmark. We’re a Northern European company. And they were trying to utilize all the attic space. A lot of buildings were destroyed. But anyway, he was given the task of converting some attic space to classrooms. And at the time, materials were scarce. Resources were scarce. ⁓ And so he came up with an ingenious way of putting a piece of glass ⁓ in the plane of the roof that would pivot and rotate and ventilate ⁓ and daylight the space, make it a functional space. So those are our humble beginnings. But ⁓ we’ve diversified and grown from just th

Guest Profile: Graig Weiss Graig Weiss brings over 20 years of leadership experience and a people-first mindset that has shaped everything from public schools to personalized service calls. Before entering the window treatment industry, he led Foundation Academies in Trenton, taught in the South Bronx and the Dominican Republic, founded a school in Punta Cana, and consulted with Cambridge Associates.Now, he’s the hands-on owner and operator of Bloomin’ Blinds of BuxMont, managing everything from sales consultations to installations — bringing the same passion and impact to home transformations as he once did to education. Under his leadership, Bloomin’ Blinds of BuxMont was named 2024 Franchise Owner of the Year, earned top national sales awards, and became one of the brand’s highest-performing and most recognized franchises.With a degree in Finance and Accounting from the University of Pittsburgh, two master’s degrees, and a life full of family, travel, and skiing, Graig blends heart, hustle, and hands-on leadership. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://youtu.be/KPqir3eVOwk Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00)Welcome back to Marketing Panes the podcast where we dive into real marketing strategies, stories, and shifts happening in the window treatment and awning world. The guest joining us today brings over 20 years of leadership experience and a people first mindset that has shaped everything from public schools to personalized service calls. Before diving into the world of blinds, he led foundation academies in Trenton. taught in the South Bronx and Dominican Republic, founded a school in Punta Cana, and consulted with Cambridge Associates. Now he’s the hands-on owner and operator of Bloomin’ Blinds of Buxmont, where he manages everything from sales consultations to installations, bringing the same passion and impact to home transformations as he once did to education. Under his leadership, Bloomin’ Blinds of Buxmont was named the 2025 Franchise Owner of the Year, earned top national sales awards across multiple categories, and became one of the brand’s highest performing and most recognized franchises. With two master’s degrees from the University of Pittsburgh and a life full of family, travel, and skiing, he’s a guy who blends heart, hustle, and hands-on leadership. Welcome to the show, Graig Weiss Graig Weiss (01:23)All right, thank you so much. Great to be here. Will Hanke (01:25)Yeah, I appreciate it. So quick disclaimer before we just jump into the questions, Graig is a client of ours and has been probably for two years or so now. So we’ve been doing his marketing and just wanted to clear the air there and make sure everybody knew about that before we started. All right, so Graig, thanks for being on the show. Why don’t you give me the 10,000 foot view of what you’ve got going on currently with the business. Graig Weiss (01:51)Yeah, so as Will said, know, Bloomin’ Blinds, Buxmont, we’re up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, just outside of Philadelphia. We cover most, pretty much anywhere within an hour of where I live. Mobile-based business, Bloomin’ Blinds is a franchise system, like a lot of others. and mobile base, mobile showroom. We go out to the customers, we can do consultations in their home and install high-end window treatments. Will Hanke (02:26)Awesome. And you’re located in Pennsylvania. Graig Weiss (02:29)Yes, just outside Philadelphia and in Pennsylvania, we also get over a little bit into New Jersey, over into the Princeton area of New Jersey, but mainly the surrounding suburbs of Philadelphia. Will Hanke (02:41)Awesome, awesome. So what drew you to the window treatment business and what drew you to Bloomin’ Blinds in particular? Graig Weiss (02:49)Yeah, so it’s a great question. If you would have told me five years ago that I’d be doing window treatments, I would have never believed you. I’m a former school administrator. I was running a charter school in Trenton, New Jersey. And after the pandemic, I knew I just needed to do something a little different. I needed to get away from school administration and started researching franchises. And there were a lot of things that I liked about Bloomin’ Blinds and window treatments in general. And that was about three years ago and took the leap and have been growing it ever since. And I think the thing that surprised me most about it is how much I actually enjoy it. Originally it was going to be a side business for me and I was going to hire somebody just to kind of run it. And at the encouragement of the brothers that own Bloomin’ Blinds they were like, you got to get in the van, you got to learn the business. And I was very reluctant, got in the van and then decided, you know what, this is great. You get out there and meet some wonderful people. You know, you make your own schedule. There’s a sense of accomplishment when you do projects and whatnot. And so it’s been a fun ride and we’re continuing to grow it. Will Hanke (04:00)That’s awesome. Now, coming from the education side, how has that background influenced how you’re running your business right now? Graig Weiss (04:08)Yeah, it’s, you know, lot of it, you know, kind of carries over. mean, one of the things that I would say is like, it’s all people first. You know, having run an organization, you’re always focused on the people and our customers are no different. We’re focused on what they need and listening to them and their needs and really delivering a service and a product that are really second to none. That’s the goal overall. Will Hanke (04:35)How do you think customers see Bloomin’ Blinds in your area and how do you want them to see it? Graig Weiss (04:42)Yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing is we want them to see it because, you know, I mean, that’s that’s marketing, getting getting them out there. And it starts with the pink shirts and the pink vans and, ⁓ you know, really just getting that brand recognition out there. ⁓ I think window treatments overall is it’s ⁓ it’s not it’s not an industry that’s necessarily that visible. I know before I got into the the industry, the only place is I kind of. thought of were like, know, blinds.com and, you know, maybe blinds to go because they have their big, you know, red buildings. And maybe walk down an aisle at Home Depot. There are a lot of other, you know, great vendors out there. And so I think that’s that’s first and foremost. But I think, you know, Bloom Blinds in particular, I always try to put myself in the customer’s shoes and what what would I want as a potential customer? And like really just treating our customers that way, showing up on time, doing what we’re say we’re gonna do, delivering a perfect product, non pushy sales, all those things I think contribute to ⁓ what we’re trying to convey to all of our customers. Will Hanke (05:58)Cool, thank you for that. So I want to talk a little bit about customer experience since we’re kind of on that train. ⁓ What does it actually look like in your business beyond even the install? Graig Weiss (06:11)Yeah, so I mean, you know, I would start with first that like 95 % of the customers that we have are really great people. And that’s one of the things I love about this business overall. You get out there and you meet some really great people that would probably have never otherwise encountered in our lives. you know, so the experience is actually, it comes naturally. Like we don’t have to fake it. You you’re going out there, you’re listening to customers, listening to… you know, what their needs are, what are they trying to accomplish? Because window treatments should be both beautiful and functional. And so we’re really trying to listen for and ask the right questions as far as what do they need and want their home to, what do they want their home to look like and what do they want their window treatments to be able to do? And then it’s, you know, basically steering them in the direction and exploring different options. I’m not a believer, we don’t have favorite window treatments. They all have their pros and cons and that’s really what we’re trying to go through and really trying to ⁓ just match up what a customer wants and what’s gonna work best for them. Will Hanke (07:23)I love that I actually had that experience a month or two ago. We had a company come out to do ours and my wife was thinking of Roman Shades and after having a great conversation and getting some consultation, we ended up with Shutter. So totally different than what we thought we wanted. But that consultation piece is really huge. Graig Weiss (07:44)Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, we find that often. you know, sometimes people call away something that they think they, you know, they saw on Pinterest that they think is going to work really well. And maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. And so we’re just kind of like laying out the pros and cons in order to make sure that they’re happy customers. Will Hanke (07:46)Yeah, that’s. Yeah, definitely makes for a better experience. Can you tell me about a time when some sort of customer interaction turned into a great marketing win? Graig Weiss (08:12)Yeah, so we often do, I one of the things that’s really unique about Bloomin’ Blinds is we do repairs as well. And we do repairs not because it’s the highest, you know, profit margins or, you know, anything like that. We do it as a courtesy to the customer because if you have, let’s say you have a room filled with like eight window treatments and one of them needs to be fixed, you don’t necessarily want to buy eight new window treatments. But oftentimes providing that service, you know, getting int

Guest Profile: Joe Estrada Joe Estrada, Account Manager at Coulisse Distribution, serving the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U.S. Joe partners with custom window shade fabricators to deliver innovative, high-quality solutions—especially in smart shading technology through MotionBlinds. With a focus on responsive service, long-term relationships, and empowering trade professionals, Joe helps clients stay competitive in a fast-evolving industry Special Invite to Sun Shading Expo 2025 Heading to the Sun Shading Expo in Indianapolis this November 5–7? We’ve got you covered! Use code SSENA25WTMP when registering to claim your FREE admission ticket. Don’t miss this chance to connect with top industry leaders, see the latest innovations, and experience hands-on demos — all at no cost with our exclusive listener code. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Sun Shading Expo: Visit Website Video https://youtu.be/Z08Ym54aw3E Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00) Welcome to another episode of marketing panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning professionals about their marketing, innovation and business growth. I’m your host, Will Hanke. And today we’re diving into the world of smart shading and innovation with guests who knows this space in and out. Our guest today is Joe Estrada, account manager at Coulisse distribution, serving the Northeast and Midwest regions of the U S. Joe partners with custom windows shade fabricators to deliver innovative, high quality solutions, especially in smart shading through technology called MotionBlinds, which we’re gonna dig into a little bit today. With a focus on responsive service, long-term relationships, and empowering trade professionals, Joe helps clients stay competitive in a fast evolving industry. We’ll be talking about how technology is reshaping the market and the evolution of modular systems, and what’s next for dealers and fabricators in the smart shade era. Joe, thanks for being on the show today. Joe Estrada (01:07) Absolutely. Thanks for having me Will. Will Hanke (01:09) Yeah, glad to have you. So for listeners who don’t know yet, can you share a little bit about your background and what you do at Coulisse Distribution? Joe Estrada (01:19) Yeah, yeah, so you touched on it. So I’m a sales rep for Coulisse . I’ve been with the company just a little over a year and a half, coming up on almost two years now, serving primarily the Midwest and parts of the Northeast. So our team, we have coverage throughout the whole country here in the U.S. as well as Canada, and then making our way down to Central America and South America as well. So we have local representation in kind of every corner of the country. and my portion is the Midwest and a few accounts of the Northeast as well. Will Hanke (01:50) Nice. I heard a rumor this was your first podcast. Joe Estrada (01:54) It is, it is. think I was joking with you. I, I’m about a daily listener of some kind of a podcast, especially when I’m traveling. but this is the first one that I’m on. So you’re you’re kind of like an adult Santa Claus, you know, Santa Claus for adults making my, little dream come true here. So thanks again. Will Hanke (02:08) ⁓ too funny. What made you say yes for joining us today? Joe Estrada (02:12) Yeah, so ⁓ obviously having the opportunity to share some of the exciting things that we’re doing at Coulisse , especially in evolving landscape in our industry right now. And you guys, the R+T group, you yourself, have always been really, really ⁓ kind to us at Coulisse So when the opportunity presented itself, we felt we had to jump on top of it. I guess you guys are stuck with me. So. Will Hanke (02:35) Yeah. Well, it’s great having you here today. So let’s talk a little bit about Coulisse . I’d love to know what sets Coulisse apart from the other component and fabric suppliers in the window treatment space. Joe Estrada (02:49) Yeah, yeah, so I would say one thing that’s kind of unique about us is we are a global one-stop shop. So whether it’s components, hardware, our collections, and our own motors, we are a true, we sell a true system. So obviously you can take the parts that you like if you don’t want or need the full system, but really the beauty in what Coulisse offers is our system approach. ⁓ And we’re going to dive a little bit deeper into that, but I would say that’s something that’s unique. and then I think our look, our feel kind of our marketing, our branding is a little unique to us. I’m obviously a little biased, but I think we do that part of, the business really, really well. so yeah, a few things that we offer that are unique in that sense. Will Hanke (03:30) Yeah, as a marketing guy, always paying attention to that and I see you guys everywhere. So you’re doing a great job there. Yeah, yeah, very good. Well, let’s jump in. I want to talk about the absolute roller. What is it? How does it serve as the foundation for your product lineup? Joe Estrada (03:35) Yeah. Yep. Thank you. Yes, so we are absolute roller 2.0 system. That is it’s a modular concept, right? So the terms that our engineers like to use is it’s kind of like working with Legos. So interchangeable components and hardware. You don’t have a right and left bracket, for example. And you can go from our essentially what, you know, for lack of a better term, our dumbest system, our chain manual operated system to our smartest motorized. motion blind system just by removing the mechanism, the chain clutch mechanism or what some people would call a clutch and replacing it with our motor. So the tube sizes are the same, the deduction sizes are all the same. ⁓ So obviously that’s handy if you’re upgrading a shade that maybe somebody bought years ago or maybe they’re going to buy now if they’d like to upgrade at some point in the future. But it really makes it easy for the manufacturers to work with as well. So a lot less SKUS and components to work with. ⁓ And obviously we have different sizes, whether it’s a small, medium, large size, depending on the configuration and the control. ⁓ But the modular concept of it makes it user friendly, not only for the fabricators or the manufacturers, but also the installers and then eventually the end users as well, especially when you’re talking motionblinds. Will Hanke (05:04) Yeah, and I can assume with that modular approach, the inventory management side of things is easier as well. Joe Estrada (05:10) Yep, yep. actually an introduction into our space last year, I got an opportunity to work on a bid for a company and they sent me the existing system that they were using and had said, hey, here’s all the components and hardware and everything that we buy, tell me what your equivalent would be and kind of how that would look differently. And that’s when I really, the advantage of the modular concept kind of sunk in for me because we talk about it a lot internally. But when you’re looking at a list of you know hundreds of components and SKUs and I’m using the same 30 40 50 SKUs essentially for the whole thing That’s when it really sunk into me like wow if I was owning the fabrication business ⁓ Especially everybody has a limit on space some some really big some small But everybody’s trying to make the most of the space that they have and they’re in their facility That’s a real big advantage to using a modular concept like what Coulisse offers Will Hanke (06:04) That’s great. What are the benefits for like dealers and workrooms when it comes to the system? Joe Estrada (06:11) Yeah, very similar. for dealers, it’s easy to install. So if the dealers are paired with the installers or have their own installers, our hardware is very, very easy to use. Again, you’re not worried about a right versus a left and having any errors or issues there that you have to fix. ⁓ For workrooms, it’s similar to a fabricator, right? Depending on where the workroom gets it or starts working at it on the product in the process. Again, fewer SKUs. the tube sizes are all the same. ⁓ so yeah, you don’t have to familiarize yourself with a bunch of different series or systems all under our umbrella. You get used to that system and it’s a little bit easier to work with from there. Will Hanke (06:54) that’s great. I love that approach. I think it’s a lot easier for the end users, as you said, when it comes to figuring out what they need. And you’re probably cutting down on the amount of things that they have to order as well. Joe Estrada (07:05) Absolutely. Yep, just because there’s fewer SKUs ⁓ and then yeah, you really notice it with our motorized products because we have a QR code kind of system to set them up. So you don’t have to familiarize yourself with these elaborate, you know, softwares or apps. So if you’re not super techie, as long as you know how to use the camera on your phone and a QR code, which most people by now are pretty familiar with. Will Hanke (07:30) Yeah. Joe Estrada (07:31) You should be okay setting them up yourselves if you choose to do so. Obviously any installer that has a little bit of experience in our industry, it’s going to be easy for them too. So yeah. Will Hanke (07:42) That’s awesome. I’d love to kind of jump into the motorization since you mentioned that ⁓ it’s tech that’s turning heads across the industry, especially the motionblinds. So tell me a little bit about those. Joe Estrada (07:56) so anywhere you see Motion, it’s funny, so my first introduction to the industry was really at R+T Stuttgart last year. I hadn’t even been with the company, I don’t think two months, so talk about drinking from a fire hose as your first event. But I was really, really thankful for Will Hanke (08:08

Guest Profile: Will Hanke Will Hanke has two passions: supporting our US veterans and helping window treatment and awning businesses tell their story online – providing them with increased exposure, more customers, and higher revenues. For over twenty-seven years he has helped mom & pops, startups, and multi-million dollar companies with their digital marketing strategies. Will hosts monthly online training events and has spoken at conferences across the US on a wide variety of topics from analytics to lead generation through his company, Window Treatment Marketing Pros. Special Invite to Sun Shading Expo 2025 Heading to the Sun Shading Expo in Indianapolis this November 5–7? We’ve got you covered! Use code SSENA25WTMP when registering to claim your FREE admission ticket. Don’t miss this chance to connect with top industry leaders, see the latest innovations, and experience hands-on demos — all at no cost with our exclusive listener code. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Sun Shading Expo: Visit Website Video https://youtu.be/1QKpW0qHuJQ?si=RNktQVGug-43YXaf Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT William Hanke (00:00.046)Today, I’ve got a bowl full of questions. I’m going to pull them out one by one and we’ll talk through them. It’s time for another episode of marketing pains. The podcast about marketing for window treatment and awning companies. Hey everyone. Welcome to Marketing Panes. The podcast where we dive into real marketing conversations for window treatment and awning pros. I’m Will Hanke and today we’re doing something a little different. So instead of a guest, I’m pulling questions straight out of real conversations I’ve had this year. Some came up during discovery calls, others from pros who are following along and just trying to figure out their marketing. These are real things people want to know whether they’re about to hire or they’re still running things themselves. So today I’ve got a bowl full of questions. I’m going to pull them out one by one and we’ll talk through them. So, all right, I’ve got my fancy Home Depot bucket here, paint bucket. I were remodeling the bathroom downstairs. So I just thought I’d use this before I filled it with paint. So what I want to do is obviously just pull out some different questions and see what they are, answer them lives. By the way, I’ve got 27 different questions in here that we’ve identified over the course of this entire year that are the most common questions. So, all right, let me just pull one out. See what we got here. How should I deal with negative or low star reviews? All right. Throw that in the trash. So low star reviews. The first thing that I would do is not reply. So I would write a reply to a one or two star review, but don’t publish it. You need some time to kind of chill and relax and get over that initial anger. So we tend to tell our clients, take a day or two to relax, write the review. And then after those 48 hours or so, go back and rewrite it. And maybe even consider using chat GPT to help you make it a little bit less angry and a little bit more factual. I think people respond well to one star reviews if a very good reply comes along with it. So listen, people understand we’re running a business and sometimes customers just aren’t great. But if you have a great written review, a reply after that, then William Hanke (02:23.885)A lot of times that makes people think you’re more real, more legit. And I’ve even heard people comment that 0.8 stars is better than five only because it makes you look more like a real company. So we all have those customers. We all get those kinds of one-star reviews from time to time. Take some time before you reply. Make sure you craft a reply and make sure you do reply for sure, but just, you know, don’t do it fully in anger. Do it very factual. And hopefully that will actually help your business down the road. All right, let’s grab another one out of here. Put that down. Can I spend $10 a day on Google ads? Sure. I wouldn’t recommend it. That is $300 a month. For our clients, we recommend that they start at $1,500 a month, which is what? 50 bucks a day. Um, the reason is a couple of things. $300 a month is going to get you one or maybe two leads in a new Google ad campaign. You should expect to pay between 160 and $210 per lead. So by recommending 1500 as a starting point, you should expect to get seven or so leads out of that money out of that spend. If you’re decent at sales and you close four of those seven. If the average job is, let’s say four grand, that’s about the average for, for a room that’s a $16,000 in revenue for $1,500 spend. Pretty nice return. If you’re spending $300 a day, one of the problems is early on in a Google ad campaign, Google puts you into a learning phase and that learning phase is learning who is going to engage with your ads. Who’s going to convert into an actual customer. And at $300 a month, when you are getting, let’s just say $200 cost per lead, that one lead per month is not enough for Google. There’s not enough meat on the bone for Google to really do a good job of getting you in front of the right people. If you only want to spend $10 a day, I would probably recommend doing some good SEO on your site, the best you can. We’ve got a great SEO masterclass that you can go through for free. William Hanke (04:47.053)and then run Facebook retargeting ads. So basically people that have already been exposed to your brand in some way, you can follow them around on Facebook, probably have a hard time spending $10 a day on retargeting ads on Facebook. That’s probably where I would put my money. if you want to do Google ads, you’re going to need to be spending closer to that 40, $50 a month or a day, which sounds horrible, but. Listen, if you can put a dollar in and $10 comes out, how many dollars do you want to put in? Now the other piece to that is the cost per lead doesn’t stay at that 160 to 210. If we can drive that cost per lead down to 150, 140, even a hundred dollars or lower, that would be fantastic, right? We’re not asking you to spend more money, but you’re getting more leads for the same spend. So that’s a better approach. Than just trying to spend a couple hundred bucks a month on Google ads probably save that money and put it elsewhere Alright next question. Is it better to do SEO or ads first? So good aunt good question the Correct way to do this is you need to start on SEO right away And I saw one of the other questions in the bucket that was how long does SEO take SEO can take eight months nine months twelve months to really start to gain momentum And depending on how many other people in your town are also doing SEO, you know, that could really stretch out. So you have to run ads while you’re working on your SEO. Both of these have to work in tandem. Ads are going to get the phone to ring now. SEO is going to get the phone to ring later. The idea is as your SEO really starts to gain momentum, maybe you can pull some of that ad budget back. or divert some of that ad budget to next door or Facebook or Instagram, some of these other places and just really start to increase that momentum as things go on. But they really need to work together. All right. Let’s grab another question. Let’s see what we got here. How much time do I need to invest each month into a valuable marketing campaign? William Hanke (07:01.299)So this depends on if you’re able to hire a company to do it. If you’re able to hire a company like mine to do your ongoing marketing, you don’t have to spend a whole lot of time working with the marketing company monthly strategy calls or quarterly strategy calls. Make sure that everybody is working in the same direction is always a great thing. after initial onboarding and sign up, which can get a little time intensive, ongoing can be pretty small. Now, if you’re not able to hire a marketing company, then it really just comes down to how much time can you put in? You’re busy running a business, which takes a lot of your time. Do you also have time to do the marketing piece of that as well? We provide a lot of resources to help people with that so that you can get to the point where you can actually hire a marketing company like us. But early on, it’s a lot of guerrilla marketing. getting out there and pounding the pavement, optimizing your site, getting a well-built ad library going. There’s a lot of moving pieces to it, but it is very possible to do yourself. It’s just going to require a lot of time outside of actually running your business as well. It just depends on what that trade-off is. Is it better to spend that money and have somebody doing that? If you have that revenue, obviously, if you don’t have that revenue, then it’s a pretty much a no brainers. All right, let’s grab another one. this is a short one. What is geofencing? So geofencing is basically drawing a fence around a specific physical area on the globe and showing ads to that area. An example could be, let’s say you got a budget blinds in town and you want to run ads to people that are in their parking lot. Is it the best use of your spend? Probably not because if somebody has already gone to budget and decided that’s where they’re going to go or Home Depot or Costco or wherever, most likely that’s where they’re going to make their decision, right? If they suddenly see an ad for ABC blinds in town, they’re probably not going to engage with that business. So maybe not the best use of your money, but you know, if you can get it really cheap, there’s, can run geofencing. William Hanke (09:19.867)ads without, you know, without issue, but that’s what it is. Basically just d

Guest Profile: Joseph Cloute Joseph Cloute is the owner of Bumble Bee Blinds of Madison, Wisconsin, bringing over 20 years of customer service and hospitality experience to the window covering industry. Known for his people-first approach, Joseph is passionate about delivering a seamless, worry-free experience from consultation to installation. With a background inspired by his father’s craftsmanship and a deep love for design, he’s committed to quality, integrity, and helping people love where they live. Whether you’re in the window treatment & awning industry, exploring franchise ownership, or just curious about what it takes to build a business from zero, Joseph’s story is packed with insights and inspiration. Special Invite to Sun Shading Expo 2025 Heading to the Sun Shading Expo in Indianapolis this November 5–7? We’ve got you covered! Use code SSENA25WTMP when registering to claim your FREE admission ticket. Don’t miss this chance to connect with top industry leaders, see the latest innovations, and experience hands-on demos — all at no cost with our exclusive listener code. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Sun Shading Expo: Visit Website Books Mentioned The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss Blue Ocean Strategy by W. Chan Kim & Renee Mauborgne Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara The Road Less Stupid by Keith J. Cunningham Outgrow by Alex Goldfayn Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzdtqDDIQyk Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00)Welcome to another episode of marketing panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. I’m your host, Will Hanke. And today we’re talking with someone that brings a fresh perspective and a whole lot of range from biotech labs to culinary kitchens, to building a business from scratch. His career is anything but typical. He’s now the owner, operator of Bumble Bee Blinds in Madison, Wisconsin. We’ll talk about what made him choose to be in the window treatment niche, why he bet on a franchise, and how he’s approaching growth in a saturated market with a brand new name and a ton of drive. If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to start from zero and build fast, this one’s for you. My guest today is Joseph Cloute He’s the owner of Bumble Bee Blinds. He brings a strong background in project management, operations, and customer success to the window covering industry. With a proven track record in driving efficiency, fostering client relationships, and leading teams to exceed expectations, Joseph combines operational excellence with a passion for delivering outstanding results for his customers. Joseph, thank you for being on today. Joseph Cloute (01:21)Will thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here today. Will Hanke (01:25)Yeah, no problem. So as I mentioned in the intro, you started kind of in the biotech world. Let’s start with that story. How has somebody who’s a microbiology grad and a chef, from what I understand, end up in window treatments? Joseph Cloute (01:42)That’s the question I continue to answer in every networking group, et cetera. One of my answers is always, well, the guidance counselor in high school didn’t quite have window treatments franchises, like one of the options that you pick, right? So here we are. Will Hanke (01:46)You Joseph Cloute (02:02)at the age of 44 starting a business. I’ve had 26 jobs throughout my lifetime. Yeah, and so… you know, kind of what led to this was just not quite being fulfilled in each of those circumstances. And so this was, you know, not only a venture that I took to try to integrate myself and be more a part of the community, but I’m also looking for that fulfillment. And part of that is through serving others and serving others through providing them window treatments and window covering solutions. Will Hanke (02:37)I like that I had a similar path. No matter how many jobs you take, you feel like there’s just something out there. I ended up reading The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss and that’s really what kind of spurred me into action to, okay, how can I actually quit my job and start this thing for real? ⁓ Yeah, good stuff. Joseph Cloute (02:47)Tim Ferriss, absolutely. You’re after my heart when you start talking about, you know, reading books, continuing to discover yourself, finding, you know, your skill set and what personality traits, you know, you can utilize to the best to serve others, right? Will Hanke (03:12)Yeah, for sure. I’ll have to ask you at the end about your favorite books or the ones you’re reading lately. So we’ll do that. ⁓ So tell me what attracted you to Bumble Bee specifically. There’s a lot of different franchise options out there. ⁓ How did you land there versus all the other ones? Joseph Cloute (03:29)Yeah, ⁓ was an interesting journey that started with the Entrepreneur Source. So they reached out to me and I actually utilized them and we looked at a number of franchises and part of that journey is some personality tests, some like… get to know you with your coach and stuff like that. And I won’t lie to you, the first three that he put on my discovery center, one of the first ones was Bumble Bee Blinds and I just looked at him and I was like, I thought we got to know each other. ⁓ You put blinds on here? Like, what are we doing? And he’s like, trust the process, be curious. ask questions and be open to new opportunities. And honestly, the more I learned about each franchise and their model and, you know, what the franchisor, you know, is doing with you and the partnership that they were creating, this just made more and more sense. And, you know, on the day that I signed the franchise agreement, Dwayne called me and he was just like, so do you trust me now? You Will Hanke (04:46)great. I love that. ⁓ You mentioned this was your fourth career out of 26 jobs. What lessons from those past lives are helping you now? Joseph Cloute (04:51)Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I would say the… Finding control in the chaos of being a chef and working in kitchens It has been a big one because things get a little chaotic and you know I will never forget being at training with Bumble Bee and they were like, you know, all right Are you ready for this like journey? And you know, they’re trying to prep people who have like, you know lived in corporate life and lived in this you know, little bubble that they create in corporate and I was like Yeah, so like I was a chef for seven years and they’re like you’re gonna be fine. We don’t think you’re gonna be gonna struggle here at all. So you know that was a big part of it and with working in customer service whether it was in project management or whether it was in the culinary you know that level of hospitality right culinary school they were like if you are you gonna choose to be a cook or you’re gonna choose to be a culinary? Like, you gonna be a master of your craft or are just gonna come here and put in the time and collect a paycheck? And that is my approach to my business now. It is, I wanna be master of my craft. I wanna be the go-to person who knows not only the systems, but the products and the operations and any of the, you know, accounting and business portion and how to network, how to grow, all of the things just full circle. I want to be a master of it all and you know part of that is that background that came from through kitchens and through project management as well. Will Hanke (06:38)while you’ve had a pretty wild ride, if your next move wasn’t blinds, what would it have been? Joseph Cloute (06:45)Great question. I think about that often. ⁓ I would say it would be my 27th job, which would have probably led to my 28th job, which would have led to my 29th job. So I was happy to find this. Will Hanke (06:53)Great. Yeah, makes sense. So I know that you just recently started with the Bumble bee franchise. How far are you into that? Joseph Cloute (07:08)Yeah, we just celebrated 100 days. Will Hanke (07:11)100 days, okay. So how’s it going so far? Any surprises, anything that you didn’t expect? Joseph Cloute (07:19)⁓ I think Bumble bee Blinds set us up ⁓ with at least expectations. Has there been surprises? Well, well. ⁓ I don’t know if you’ve lived in America since January, but there’s been a couple of surprises that have occurred. ⁓ So those were unexpected. ⁓ I signed paperwork on January 6th. Will Hanke (07:32)you tell me more. Joseph Cloute (07:43)I don’t know that any of us could have predicted some of the economic and tariff volatility that we’ve had. ⁓ I would say unprecedented, but you’ve been in the business longer than me, so maybe you can chime in on that one. Will Hanke (07:57)There’s always ups and downs in the world of pricing. hahaha More ups than downs. Joseph Cloute (07:59)That’s a good blanket statement. like that. ⁓ But yeah, I would say outside of that, ⁓ the biggest surprises would be, you know, firing ⁓ my design consultant on day one and taking over that role, ⁓ learning a bit about myself and the fact that I can execute. as a salesman at a high level. ⁓ That was unexpected to me. ⁓ Even my family when I’m like, yeah, so I do all the sales and they’re like, okay, and how’s that going? And I’m like, actually, it’s awesome. I like, I really enjoy it. It’s one of my favorite parts of the business is being out there with the clients, ⁓ helping them find solutions, solving their problems and that kind of stuff. ⁓ But overall, it’s been going better than expected. ⁓ I am hitting the corporate franchise KPIs that they set out. So meeting their expectations, I would

Guest Profile: Bert Bolton Bert Bolton – Blind Cleaners Network Bert’s been in the business for over 20 years, and he’s built something that’s part training center, part network, and part powerhouse support system for people in or entering the blind cleaning space. He has blended his expertise in the fields of education and cleaning to support a growing network of professionally minded blind and drapery cleaners. His facility is one place major fabricators like Hunter Douglas and Springs Window Fashions send new products or fabrics for testing, cleaning, and evaluations. Students from as far away as Australia also come to learn this niche of the cleaning world, whether it be ultrasonics or OnSite Fabricare. When not working, Bert and his wife Miriam enjoy time on the water in their kayaks, fishing (water or dirt) or sneaking away to visit their Idaho grandsons who are not quite old enough to do any of the above things unsupervised yet. Description What if blind cleaning and small repairs could unlock thousands in repeat business — or even lead to six-figure design projects? In this episode of Marketing Panes, host Will Hanke sits down with Bert Bolton of the Blind Cleaners Network to uncover the hidden potential in cleaning and repair services for window treatment businesses. You’ll hear real-world stories, including: How a simple cord repair turned into a $2,000 cleaning job:white_check_mark: The decorator who turned six blinds into $100K of work in her first year with a client Why cleaning is one of the most overlooked yet powerful marketing tools in our industry How repeat commercial contracts (like schools) can bring in thousands every few years The role of the Blind Cleaners Network in training, credibility, and creating new business connections Whether you’re a window treatment pro, workroom, or designer, this conversation will help you see blind cleaning and repair in a whole new light, as a pathway to long-term, high-value clients. From Dust to Dollars: Is Blind Cleaning a Secret Sales Engine? Blind cleaning may not sound glamorous, but it can be one of the most powerful sales and marketing tools in the window treatment industry. What often begins as a simple cleaning or repair can open the door to long-term, high-value client relationships, repeat contracts, and even six-figure design projects.In a recent episode of Marketing Panes, Bert Bolton, founder of the Blind Cleaners Network, shared how blind cleaning has become a hidden sales engine for dealers, decorators, and cleaning professionals alike. Summary Blind cleaning and small repairs are often dismissed as “low-margin” work. But for forward-thinking window treatment businesses, these services create a gateway to stronger client trust, repeat business, and new revenue opportunities. By combining credibility, expertise, and the right partnerships, blind cleaning can transform into a growth strategy—not just a service add-on. The Overlooked Power of Blind Cleaning Why Dealers Often Skip It Many window treatment dealers hesitate to offer cleaning services because the immediate profit margins appear smaller compared to selling new products. However, this view can overlook the bigger picture. Cleaning provides more than income—it creates opportunities to enter homes, build relationships, and position yourself as the trusted go-to provider. Cleaning as a Door Opener A minor repair, like fixing a cord, might only take minutes but can lead to thousands in additional work. As Bert shared, one decorator secured a $100K project that started with cleaning just six blinds. Another example: a school district that first engaged through a small repair ended up providing recurring cleaning contracts every few years, creating steady revenue. Turning Service Calls into Sales Trust Leads to Bigger Projects Once inside a client’s home or business, a cleaning job often uncovers more opportunities. A customer who starts with a single blind cleaning may later request quotes for replacements or upgrades, all because they’ve already built trust with the provider. Marketing Value in High-End Homes Cleaning provides entry into homes and spaces that dealers might not otherwise reach. In luxury markets, this can be the perfect introduction to clients who value quality and are likely to invest in larger projects down the road. Building Credibility Through Training and Networking The Role of Blind Cleaners Network The Blind Cleaners Network equips professionals with the tools, training, and credibility to deliver quality service. From hands-on workshops to manufacturer partnerships with Hunter Douglas and Springs Window Fashions, the network helps raise professionalism across the industry. Why Certification Matters Being part of a professional network communicates reliability and expertise. This credibility not only reassures clients but also makes it easier to build partnerships with decorators, dry cleaners, and restoration companies who may pass along referrals. A Hidden Sales Engine Worth Exploring Blind cleaning isn’t just about maintenance—it’s about positioning your business for repeat contracts, high-value projects, and long-term relationships. By reframing cleaning and repairs as a marketing tool, window treatment professionals can unlock a steady stream of new opportunities. Ready to Explore New Growth Opportunities? If you’re looking for fresh ways to expand your window treatment business, consider blind cleaning as more than just a side service. At Window Treatment Marketing Pros, we help businesses uncover hidden revenue streams, build credibility, and attract long-term clients. Learn more or connect with Bert at: https://blindcleaners.biz/ Special Invite to Sun Shading Expo 2025 Heading to the Sun Shading Expo in Indianapolis this November 5–7? We’ve got you covered! Use code SSENA25WTMP when registering to claim your FREE admission ticket. Don’t miss this chance to connect with top industry leaders, see the latest innovations, and experience hands-on demos — all at no cost with our exclusive listener code. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry.Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49Apple Podcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://youtu.be/0WjqzBvBhqI Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00)Hi, welcome to another episode of marketing panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. I’m your host, Will Hanke. Today we have another fantastic guest joining us for an interesting topic. Let me tell you if you’ve ever written off blind cleaning or repairs as low value work. this conversation might change your mind. From turning repairs into long-term clients to why cleaning is one of the most underused marketing tools in the industry, we will cover all of that today. My guest is Bert Bolton from the Blind Cleaners Network. Bert ‘s been in business for over 20 years and he’s built something that’s part training center, part network, and part. powerhouse support system for people in or entering the blind cleaning space. He has blended his expertise in the fields of education and cleaning to support a growing network of professionally minded blind and drapery cleaners. his facility is one place major fabricators like Hunter Douglas and Springs Window Fashions send new products or fabrics for test cleaning evaluations. Students from as far away as Australia also come to learn this niche of the cleaning world, whether it be ultrasonics or on-site fabric care. When not working, Bert and his wife Miriam enjoy their time on the water in kayaks, fishing, or sneaking away to visit their Idaho grandsons, who are not quite old enough to enjoy any of the things mentioned above unsupervised quite yet. Bert, thank you so much for being on the show today. I appreciate it. I love the outdoors thing. ⁓ I’m an outdoors guy myself ⁓ and waiting on the grandkids to get a little bit bigger as well. Bert Bolton (01:50)Thank you. Yeah, it’d fun to teach them to fish and do those things. Will Hanke (02:05)Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thanks again for being on the show. I want to dig into the blind cleaners network a little bit later on, but for now, can you give us, tell me about your journey into the blind cleaning industry? How’d you get started 22 years ago and what drew you into this specialized niche? Bert Bolton (02:27)Well, at that time I was ⁓ leaving education. I was kind of at a crossroads looking for something to do in the area locally. So I was looking around for different opportunities and this little blind cleaning business was for sale. ⁓ Somebody just started it and they were going to retire in a few years. So they put it up for sale and I started investigating this little niche business and the more I kind of investigated it, the more intrigued I got by this specialty niche business versus just a bigger business like carpet cleaning or window cleaning or something that had a lot of competition. Will Hanke (03:07)Yeah, so when you started investigating it a little bit more, I guess you figured out it was a viable business model. ⁓ How did that evolve for you? Bert Bolton (03:17)Well, as I mentioned, it was just a small business they had started. At that point, you know, I saw the possibilities that, you know, you could build it into and grow it into a viable business. so, you know, I took a few years learning the tricks of the trade and taking the knocks in business. But, you know, that ramp to success isn’t straight line. It’s got ups and downs, but, you know, it’s been a good ride. Will Hanke (03:39)You Yeah. And then along the way, I guess you documented things, figured out what worked, what did

Guest Profile: Susan Woodcock Susan Woodcock is an entrepreneur, educator, and one of the most recognizable voices in the custom window treatment world. She owns Home Dec Gal, a to-the-trade workroom, and is the founder of Workroom Tech—the only trade school in the U.S. dedicated to custom home decor sewing professionals. She and her husband also produce the Custom Workroom Conference, an annual gathering that draws passionate small business owners from across the country. Today, we’re diving into her journey, what it takes to train the next generation of fabricators, and why education is more important than ever in our trade. The Journey Into Custom Workrooms Susan Woodcock’s path into the window treatment industry began in her mother’s drapery workroom and quickly grew into her own business in the late 1980s. From English drapery styles to modern fabrications, she developed her skills through real projects and long-term relationships with designers. Today, Susan is recognized as one of the most influential voices in custom fabrication and education. Why Education Matters Hands-On Training vs. Online Learning While online tutorials are convenient, Susan emphasizes that hands-on experience is irreplaceable. Fabrics require physical interaction—draping, measuring, and managing large cuts—that can’t be fully captured in a video. That’s why her school, Workroom Tech, offers small in-person classes with direct mentorship, complemented by interactive online sessions that expand access worldwide. Training the Next Generation Workroom Tech attracts students from all walks of life—young parents seeking flexible careers, professionals transitioning from healthcare or law enforcement, and retirees looking for creative encore careers. What unites them is a shared passion for fabric and craftsmanship. Starting and Growing a Successful Workroom Tools That Matter Most According to Susan, the most important investment isn’t a machine—it’s a professional work table. Large-scale projects like draperies and Roman shades require space to spread fabric, cut precisely, and assemble with ease. With a table and basic sewing tools, many successful businesses have started from home-based setups. Building Value Through Craftsmanship Susan encourages fabricators to highlight the handcrafted, custom nature of their work rather than competing on price. High-quality window treatments last decades, and clients—whether affluent or budget-conscious—value the uniqueness and durability of custom pieces. Branding and Marketing That Work Establishing a Presence Susan credits much of her growth to building websites early on, which helped past clients reconnect. Social media, particularly Instagram and Facebook, has since amplified her reach, giving her a direct way to showcase projects and connect with future students. Consistent Branding For Susan, branding is about more than visuals—it’s about consistency. She avoids discounts to reinforce the value of craftsmanship, teaching students to maintain pricing integrity. Her strategy is simple: quality, authenticity, and confidence in the value of custom work. The Role of Conferences and Community The Custom Workroom Conference Beyond the classroom, Susan co-produces the Custom Workroom Conference, an annual gathering that combines education, networking, and community. Attendees gain exposure to new methods, connect with peers facing similar challenges, and build relationships with suppliers and mentors. The conference is known for its welcoming atmosphere—something many small business owners in this niche industry deeply appreciate. It’s less like a trade show and more like a family reunion for fabricators. Conclusion Susan Woodcock’s journey shows that the custom window treatment industry thrives on a balance of education, craftsmanship, and community. From equipping new fabricators with essential skills to fostering collaboration through events, her work highlights the importance of building a trade on both tradition and innovation. Show Notes Guest: Susan Woodcock – Founder of Workroom Tech, Home Dec Gal, and co-producer of the Custom Workroom Conference. Topics: hands-on education, starting a workroom, branding and marketing, and the role of community events. Learn more about the Custom Workroom Conference: customworkroomconference.com Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Home Dec Gal: Visit Website Workroom Tech: Visit Website Video https://youtu.be/r3whm90EDpY Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00)Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. I’m your host, Will Hanke. Today we’re joined with Susan Woodcock, entrepreneur, educator, and founder of Workroom Tech. the only trade school in the U.S. for custom home decor sewing pros. She also runs Home Dec Gal and produces the custom workroom conference, fabricators together from all over the country. In this episode, we’ll talk about her journey, the importance of hands-on education, and how workrooms can thrive in today’s industry. Susan Woodcock is an entrepreneur, educator, and one of the most recognizable voices in the custom window treatment world. She owns Home Dec Gal, a to-the-trade workroom, and is the founder of Workroom Tech, the only trade school in the US dedicated to custom home decor sewing professionals. She and her husband also produced the Custom Workroom Conference, an annual gathering that draws passionate small business owners from across the country. Today we’re diving into her journey what it takes to train the next generation of fabricators and why education is more important than ever to our trade. Susan, thank you so much for being on the show. Susan Woodcock (01:24)Hello, Will, thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be here with you today. Will Hanke (01:27)Thank you. So let’s jump in and talk about custom work rooms. What exactly are they? And tell us a little bit about the story of how you got into this side of the industry. Susan Woodcock (01:39)Okay, well a custom workroom is ⁓ usually a small business. There’s also some larger commercial workrooms that do custom work, but works directly with interior design trade to create those beautiful window treatments and custom upholstered pieces. And then some workrooms work retail and work directly with customers, helping them with their interior design. So it’s an industry full of people that work with their hands and are actually making things in their businesses. Will Hanke (02:14)I like that. So before focusing on the fabrication and teaching students how to sew, did you do any other types of sewing like for a different industry that moved you towards this? Susan Woodcock (02:28)No. I think I’ve made one dress in my life, no garment sewing, dabbled in quilting a little bit. My mother had a drapery workroom in her home, and that’s how I learned. And then I started my own drapery workroom. When I left college, I was an art major, fine arts. And ⁓ there were so many jobs for fine art majors out there, right? Will Hanke (02:30)Okay. I bet. ⁓ Susan Woodcock (02:56)So I started a drapery workroom in 1988 and been doing it ever since. Will Hanke (03:04)wow. What do you guys focus on mostly in the workroom? Susan Woodcock (03:08)draperies, round shades, slip covers, that sort of thing. Will Hanke (03:13)Okay, okay. What did the early days of getting started out of college, what did that look like? Susan Woodcock (03:19)Well, I started out with one designer and she was very busy and very successful and she really directed the style of my work. So she did English drapery method which is bump interlining and ⁓ back then in the late 80s it was chintz fabrics and silks and valances and trims and ⁓ a lot of things that we’re seeing come back now which is exciting. But it really gave me an opportunity to learn on the job, but just hand methods, hand sewing. And I worked with her exclusively at the beginning of my career. We had an exclusive contract and did that for three or four years. And it was a great way to learn. And it really set me off on the path that I’ve done for the rest of my career. Will Hanke (04:13)i love that. Has the audience changed over the years of who you’re serving? Susan Woodcock (04:18)No. As far as my custom workroom, no. In fact, I’m still working for some of the same customers that I worked for back then. But now it’s their children and their grandchildren. Yeah, that’s pretty exciting to see. Will Hanke (04:26)wow. That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s awesome. I love to hear that the 80s prints are coming back. I doubt some of the crazy ones are coming back, but still, that’s exciting to me. Susan Woodcock (04:38)I know. Yeah, the grand millennials are trending us towards the fashions of years ago and it’s fun to see. Will Hanke (04:53)That’s awesome. Awesome. So I know you’re really busy. You have Home Dec Gal, Workroom Tech, and the Custom Workroom Conference. Why do you think it’s necessary to separate them in the digital space, and how do they intersect? Susan Woodcock (05:08)Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s difficult when you’re self-employed to separate yourself from the businesses. The Home Dec Gal is definitely me. I’m fabricating. The customers are hiring me because they want me specifically doing their work. But for the conference and the school, we started the conference first. And it was one of those things where I said, you know, I want something to sell in the future. and my workroom business is really tied to me. So the conference, one of the reasons we started it, one of the small reasons was to have something to build and sell later. And the same thing with the school. We do try to keep it somewhat, not neutral, but so somebody else could take it over in the futu

Guest Profile: Randy and Andy Randy Meppelink runs a 4th-generation family business based in Michigan that doesn’t just sell machines, they also teach fabrication. Whether it’s building roller shades from scratch, improving your current workflow, or launching new products like outdoor shades, Randy and his team help window treatment pros go from retailer to full-on fabricator. He brings a rare perspective: real-life experience in fabrication and hands-on product knowledge. His facility doubles as a working fabrication space where businesses can test machines, learn the ropes, and get hands-on experience. Andrew Meyer is the Vice President of Sales & Marketing at Indiana Coated Fabrics, a U.S. manufacturer of high-performance textiles. With over 20 years in sales, marketing, and brand development, he now focuses on serving the window shading industry through ICF’s U.S.-made blackout and light-filtering fabrics. Known for pairing market insight with a hands-on approach, Andrew helps fabricators, distributors, and designers navigate supply chain challenges and design trends. Outside work, he’s a devoted husband, father of three, and active community volunteer. Other Notes/Links: Window Products: Visit Website Indiana Coated fabrics: Visit Website Sun Shading Expo: https://sunshadingexpo.com/ pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/pt4lc2Hsh2M Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00) All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. I’m your host, Will Hanke and today we’re joined by two industry leaders helping dealers cross over into the world of in-house fabrication. So first is Randy Meppelink. Randy runs a fourth generation family business based in Michigan that doesn’t just sell machines, they also teach fabrication, whether it’s building roller shades from scratch, improving your current workflow or launching new products like outdoor shades. Randy and his team help window treatment pros go from retailer to full on fabricator. He brings a rare perspective, real life experience in fabrication and hands-on product knowledge. His facility doubles as a working fabrication space where businesses can test machines, learn the ropes, and get hands-on experience. Andrew Meyer, meanwhile, represents Indiana Coated Fabrics, one of the last U.S.-based manufacturers of coated-shade fabrics. While they’re known for blackout materials, ICF goes far beyond that. They work with some of the biggest names in the industry, providing custom converting and finishing services for companies that want to apply ICF’s precision to their own textiles. For 60 years, ICF has supplied everyone from massive commercial brands to independent dealers. Andy’s mission is to help more US fabricators, big and small, access top tier materials and stand out with local made quality. Together, they’re showing us what it really takes to bring fabrication in-house, adapt to industry shifts, and build a more resilient, profitable window treatment business. Guys, thanks for being on today. And I’m a… Yeah, and I’m out of breath now, right? Randy Meppelink (02:03) Yeah. Thanks, Will. We appreciate the invite. You bet. Andrew Meyer (02:03) Thank you. Yes. Randy Meppelink (02:08) Hahaha! Andrew Meyer (02:08) That was quite the intro. ⁓ Will Hanke (02:12) Yeah, so, so let’s jump in. Randy and Andy, could you each introduce yourselves briefly and tell us a little bit about things that maybe we don’t know yet? Randy Meppelink (02:23) Well, thank you very much. And like you said, I am fourth generation. My family immigrated from the Netherlands. they went from Holland to Holland. So real original, right? We went from Holland, the country, to Holland, Michigan, the city. So place they felt comfortable. But a lot of people may not know a couple of things. I’ve been in the industry really a long time since I was a child, you know, picking up or helping my grandfather. You know, we were fabricating drapery rods and, you know, shades way back in the 70s and stuff. but fast forward a little bit. One of the things that some people know and maybe a lot of don’t know, but there was a mini blind that was sold by a company called Leveler. for years, and they had a paint system on there that was a dust guard paint that repelled dust. And I was the inventor behind that. And so that was ⁓ one of mine. so that’s something that you asked of people may not know about me. That’s one. It’s not really out there. You’d have to do the research to find it. yeah, that’s what it And I’ve been involved in a lot of product development with companies that are, whether it’s Will Hanke (03:19) nice. Have a cool. Randy Meppelink (03:39) Hunter Douglas, Levolor, Comfortex, used to be Comfortex. Over the years, where I’ve contracted and done individual engineering products for them. So there’s many products that are out in the industry today that I have touched in one way or another in that product design. So yeah. Will Hanke (03:58) That’s awesome, awesome. Very cool, how about you Andy? Andrew Meyer (04:01) ⁓ Yes, so my name is Andrew Meyer here with ICF. While Randy and I do share the same barber as well as facial barber, I didn’t realize we’re both sporting the go-to today. I’ve been with ICF for about five years now. Tim Foster, whom a lot of the industry folk know, brought me into kind of… ⁓ kind of reinvigorate how our approach was and how we’re going to market with what we do. A lot of people in the industry know ICF and we’ve been kind of doing this blackout material for a long time. However, we do a lot of other things. Outside of shading, we do an art and entertainment ⁓ materials. We do converting work for various shade fabrics as well as other industry materials. ⁓ And we work in the industrial sector as well in making fabrics that get used in various applications. know, everything from tarmacs at the airport to your fabric HVAC materials. So lots of different things that we touch. The bulk of what we do is in the shading world. So which is why we’ve got great relationships with people like Randy and many others out there. And as you kind of mentioned in the intro, we work with some of the biggest names in the shading industry, all the way down to the small mom and pops. And that’s what’s a lot of fun, is to be able to kind of work with both ends of the spectrum in what we do in providing fabrics to the industry. Will Hanke (05:27) that. love that. Randy, you mentioned that your company is four generations strong. What does it what does keeping it in the family, you know, kind of mean and for how you serve the industry today? Randy Meppelink (05:39) So family dynamics are extremely unique when you’re dealing with four generations in the business. Me being the third, but the fourth generation now working in the company and managing. One of the things that we did, and we ran out of kids, my wife and I, we created different divisions within the company so that they work together, but they don’t really cross over. Andrew Meyer (05:58) You Randy Meppelink (06:06) And that way it helps with the family dynamics piece of that because they’re directly responsible for their own division, whether it’s on the machinery side or whether it’s fabrication side or whether it’s supply, the different things like that involve. So that’s one of the important pieces with a family business, I think, is to have some separation for each of the members. Will Hanke (06:27) For sure. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. My daughter works with me and she’s, it’s tough to keep the two things separated sometimes between dad and boss. ⁓ But so I know about the family dynamics a little bit at least. So ⁓ Andy, you mentioned that your business is, or that the business is 60 years, been around for quite a while now. Randy Meppelink (06:41) Yes. Will Hanke (06:52) How has it evolved over the decades? Andrew Meyer (06:55) Yeah, so ICF actually started by Bill Haldowing. He worked at a very large, just not gonna name him, very large company that did some window shading, but they also did movie screen projection screen fabrication. they had started to slow down the shading side of their business, so he actually started ICF to kind of fill that void. And… ICF started as our name says in long format, Indiana Coated Fabrics, we coated fabrics and we made various coated textiles to service, like I said, shading industry and then morphed into projection screen industry. And then somewhere in the 90s, early to mid 90s is when we actually got our first laminator. And that opened up a whole new world of shading, shading material opportunity. So we went from just coating fabrics to then going into being able to provide a blackout material that was laminated and not go the coding route. Now, fast forward even further, we actually do various textiles that use both of those practices. So we’ve got materials that are both laminated and coated to provide different textures, different approaches to the shading industry, as well as the projection screen industry, and as well as some of the other other ⁓ sectors that we service. So we started with this one idea and we’ve kind of really morphed based on the needs as well as our capabilities. And so now we run ⁓ two laminators. We run a narrow width and a wide format width. And then we also have our coating oven, which has different ways in which we can apply coatings to fabrics. Will Hanke (08:32) Yeah. Very interesting. One thing that we’ve seen a lot lately, obviously, is motorization and exterior products really are kind of trending. How do your businesses support dealers and fabricators that are looking to expand into these areas? Let’s start with Andy. Andrew Meyer (08:51) So yeah, we’ve been approached, obviously internally as wel

In this episode of Marketing Panes, host Will Hanke sits down with Russ Elinson of Arjay’s Window Fashions and Rory McNeil of Shading and Automation Solutions to unpack what’s really happening in the window treatment world as we head into Q3 2025. It’s not all bad news despite economic headwinds, dealers are finding smart, strategic ways to stay profitable. From industry trends to overlooked tools and lead sources, this episode offers real-world insights for professionals navigating a shifting landscape. Guest Profile: Russ Elinson Arjay’s Window Fashions Serves as Principal of Arjay’s Window Fashions, spearheading strategic growth at Window Products Management, Inc. A USC graduate, Russ brings proven leadership in the window coverings industry. Rory McNeil WindowShading.Pro Seasoned leader in the window coverings industry and founder of WindowShading.Pro. With decades of experience, from launching Eclipse Blinds in the U.S. to co-founding TechStyles, He now heads Shading & Automation Solutions (SAS), continuing to drive innovation in shading and automation. The Reality of “Survival Mode” in 2025 Many window treatment dealers are adjusting expectations this year, shifting from aggressive growth to business stability. As consumer spending softens and buyers delay home upgrades, staying flat is considered a success. Russ describes it as “flat is a win,” and this mindset is helping dealers focus on internal efficiencies, consistent lead flow, and retaining talent. Why This Isn’t a Bad Thing Survival mode pushes dealers to double down on what works. From hiring in-house installers to improving scheduling control, it’s about building a resilient, self-reliant business that can weather slow quarters and bounce back stronger. Import Duties and Industry Shake-Ups One major challenge in Q1 and Q2 of 2025 was the rapid increase in import tariffs—jumping from 10% to 50% without warning. This has created a cashflow crisis for many fabricators, especially those with goods already in transit. Who’s Gaining an Edge? Surprisingly, manufacturers based in Mexico or sourcing outside China are gaining traction. They can avoid steep U.S. duties while still offering competitive pricing, giving them an advantage in a tight market. Domestic fabricators are also seeing opportunities, especially if they can offer shorter lead times and stable pricing. The Tech Tools Closing More Sales Technology is playing a big role in helping dealers stand out and close faster. One standout mentioned in the episode is Sunseeker, a sun-tracking app used to visualize how sunlight moves through a room. It’s a powerful tool for convincing skeptical homeowners that window treatments aren’t just a luxury—they’re protection for their floors and furniture. Automating Quotes and Simplifying Installs Top dealers are using laser measuring tools and quoting software like Solatech to speed up the sales process, reduce errors, and close deals on the spot. Even simple app control for motorized shades is becoming the norm, with clients expecting remote or phone-based operation. More Than Just Homeowners: Diversifying Your Lead Sources With residential leads slowing down, forward-thinking dealers are expanding into commercial work, partnerships, and media opportunities. Russ’s Lead Generation Advice Commercial Projects: Small to medium jobs (25 to 300 windows) are often ignored by national companies and can be very profitable. Trade Partners: Relationships with general contractors, designers, and real estate agents pay off long-term. Traditional Media: TV segments and direct mail still work, especially in markets where digital competition is tight. In-Person Networking: From hosting events in showrooms to attending trade expos, showing up matters. Show Notes Sunseeker App A solar tracking app used during consultations to show sun path and help clients understand the value of solar protection and proper shading. Windows Shading Pro Newsletter Curated by Rory McNeil, this free newsletter has been around since the 1990s and provides industry updates, product highlights, and business insights. Sign up here: Windows Shading Pro Newsletter Sun Shading Expo 2025 Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Arjay’s Window Fashions: Visit Website WindowShading.Pro: Visit Website Video https://youtu.be/nW9WEe0xOaA?feature=shared Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00) All right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. My name is Will Hanke. Today is a special episode. We’ve got not one, but two industry leaders joining us and we want to talk about Q3, which is just around the corner. And maybe we’ll talk a little bit about Q2 as well and see how well it went. But we’ve got some great guests today. So Russ Elinson serves as the principal of Arjays’s Window Fashions, spearheading strategic growth at Window Products Management, Incorporated. A USC graduate, Russ brings proven leadership in the window coverings industry. And Rory McNeil, who’s been with us before, he’s a seasoned leader in the window coverings industry. And founder of Windows Shading Pro. With decades of experience from launching Eclipse blinds in the US to co-founding TechStyles, he now heads Shading and Automation Solutions, or SAS, continuing to drive innovation in shading and automation. Gentlemen, it’s fantastic to have you here. Rory McNeil (01:13) Thanks for having me. Russ Elinson (01:13) Thanks for having us. Will Hanke (01:15) Appreciate it. So let’s jump in. want to I don’t want to spend too much time bantering back and forth, but let’s talk about what pulled you into the industry. Maybe we’ll start with Russ. What kind of pulled you in? Was it love at first sight or was it more of a slow burn? Russ Elinson (01:30) Well, my situation is perhaps a little different. I was born into the industry, so that could be a blessing or a curse, depending on how you look at it. I grew up in a window covering manufacturing business. So from five years old, running around a warehouse and assembling brackets and sweeping floors and counting rolls of fabric. I never thought I would wind up in the industry. Coming out of school, wound up in the family business. I was there for 10 years and been moved on into my own business venture on the retail side of the business that was 14 years ago. Will Hanke (02:03) Okay. long time ago. Rory, what about yourself? Rory McNeil (02:03) Long time ago. Russ Elinson (02:06) To be 45 and have 25 years plus experience in the industry full time is a lot. Will Hanke (02:13) You Rory McNeil (02:14) The wild thing is Russ that back when Russ was running around the floors in that fabricator, I was visiting them from the UK. That goes back a long way. Yeah. Russ Elinson (02:23) well Will Hanke (02:25) You’re dating. Russ Elinson (02:26) So needless to say, Rory and I have known each other a long time. Will Hanke (02:29) Yeah, yeah. Rory, what kind of pulled you into the industry first? Rory McNeil (02:33) Nepotism just like Russ. Yeah, my father and uncle had started a window covering business in the UK. That was called Apollo Blinds was first this retail franchise operation and been Eclipse Blinds applied the franchisees with Apollo branded product. And they also supplied every other independent fabricator of blinds in the UK. And been I got involved in the company in the mid 80s to start the export department because we we’d grown so much in the UK. Will Hanke (02:35) Okay. Rory McNeil (03:02) Only 65 million people to work with, you it’s not a big market. And so within about five years, we were selling to 36 countries around the world. A lot of fun. Will Hanke (03:11) Yeah, wow, what a journey that’s been. Thanks for sharing that. Russ, I know you guys, Arjays’s is doing quite well in the Southwest, I guess is where you guys are at. What was the point when you thought, know, okay, we’re not just surviving, we’re leading? Russ Elinson (03:28) I think the big change happened once we started hiring full-time installation technicians. Stop relying for the most part on subcontractors and just building a full team that would be with the company for a long time. That allows us to pivot our installation team almost daily if we need to when schedules are behind or ahead of schedule, just to control our own destiny in that regard. Will Hanke (03:50) Love that there is definitely something to be said about an entrepreneur that has to, you when you get to that point where you start hiring and you’re like, wow, this is incredible. It’s scary at first, but been it’s also quite freeing, you know. Russ Elinson (04:01) Yes, for sure. Rory McNeil (04:04) Will, do you notice that with some of the more successful retailers that they do employ their own installers? Because it’s quite important. Will Hanke (04:13) Yeah, think for most clients, think early on, they’re the ones running sales and installs. And finding installers a little bit tougher than it has been in the past. But yeah, absolutely. If they can start to find their own installers or somebody that’s moonlighting maybe two or three different window treatment companies in the same city, that seems to work out well. Rory McNeil (04:33) Russ, how have you been able to find new installers? Do you train them from within? Russ Elinson (04:39) It’s a kind of a mixed bag. Some of them we found with just construction experience and brought them on and been they’ve trained from a more master seasoned installer. Others we’ve been fortunate that as our businesses have grown in each of the markets, it’s been a good source for recruiting where people just wanted to come work for our company because they’ve heard our reputation of building a team and the cool projects that we were going after and the con

Guest Profile: Ryan Murray Ryan Murray is the owner & CEO of AAA Blind & Shutter Factory in Little River, SC. AAA is a fabricator and dealer of Shutters, Roller Shades and Blinds. Ryan comes from outside the window treatment industry with a diverse background in finance & accounting, sales & marketing and was most recently a General Manager for a large MedTech company. Ryan acquired AAA in 2024 by following the path of ETA (entrepreneurship thru acquisition), and has successfully grown the business 20% in his first year of ownership. Ryan plans to continue to grow AAA organically and inorganically with more acquisitions. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes AAA Blind and Shutter Factory: Visit Website Book Mentioned: Outgrow Learn more about Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition (ETA): ryan.aaablinds@gmail.com Video https://youtu.be/XhDGVM13fY0 Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT William Hanke (00:00) Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes. This is episode number 45, the podcast where we talk to with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today we’ve got a guest with some great insights that I’m excited to interview. His name is Ryan Murray. Ryan is the owner and CEO of AAA Blind Shutter Factory in Little River. South Carolina. Is it okay if I call it AAA from now on? Okay. AAA is a fabricator and dealer of shutters, roller shades and blinds. Ryan comes from outside the window treatment industry with a diverse background in finance and accounting, sales, marketing, and was most recently a general manager for a large med tech company. Ryan acquired AAA in Ryan Murray (00:31) Yeah, absolutely. William Hanke (00:55) 2024 by following the path of ETA and entrepreneurship through acquisition. going to jump into that in just a second. Ryan has successfully grown the business 20 % in his first year of ownership and he plans to continue to grow AAA organically and inorganically with more acquisitions. Ryan, thank you so much for being on. Ryan Murray (01:19) Yeah, thanks Will, really excited to do this with you. William Hanke (01:22) Yeah, yeah, your whole story has really intrigued me. I know that you acquired AAA specifically about a year ago through what you call entrepreneurship through acquisition. So what drew you to the window treatment industry and specifically to a business that was 30 years old? Ryan Murray (01:41) Yeah, so I actually came out of college as an accounting major and I got my CPA. So I worked a traditional W2 job, if you will, before I got into business ownership. I always knew I wanted to be a business owner. And my risk profile didn’t allow for me to shoot for that zero to one startup style. So after working a number of years for large companies, switching careers from accounting and finance, eventually into sales and marketing, where I did get a bit of a taste of entrepreneurship. I was in a role where I was a hundred percent commissioned, eat what you kill, responsible for your business and revenue. And I really was excited by that opportunity to, to live and eat on my own efforts. And so I found this path, entrepreneurship through acquisition, as an alternative path to entrepreneurship that was a much better fit for my risk profile. And the data shows is you have a much higher likelihood of success versus zero to one startups. No knock on them, they’re super difficult. So those that do succeed in that type of an entrepreneurship, kudos to them. It’s just a different style. So it was something I had sort of uncovered while I was in business school and upon graduation pursued it. I was frankly industry agnostic. I was more geographically focused, wanted to be in the Myrtle Beach area. William Hanke (02:52) OK. Ryan Murray (03:02) I just relocated there to be closer to family with my wife and now two sons. And I was fortunate enough to come across AAA Blind and Shutter Factory, which had a great strong history. This is our 29th year in business. What I liked about the business is not only is window treatments a great industry, but there was also some real estate involved in the acquisition as well. So I was really drawn to something that had a tangible product, had a sales process, and something that fit my skills from my prior background, which I somewhat consider myself a generalist, given I have a mix of some technical with accounting and finance, as well as sales and marketing and some general management. And it’s just been a lot of fun to learn a new widget. But when it comes down to running a business, a lot of the functions and practices are the same. And so being able to apply that prior knowledge has been, led me to least some success in the first year and we’re hoping more to come. William Hanke (04:03) Cool. So I’m curious how you even came across AAA in the first place. And once you kind of got involved, what was the first big change that you made and how did that go? Ryan Murray (04:16) Yeah, so for the uninitiated, when it comes to entrepreneurship through acquisition, the first step you take is you launch what’s called a search is what it’s commonly known as. And there’s different types of flavors of entrepreneurship or ETA as well. I pursued the self-funded path, which meant I was going to fund the bulk of the acquisition with equity, but also SBA debt. The SBA has a great lending program that allows for small businesses to capitalize and make acquisitions happen. So like I said before, I was more geographically focused, but I had a criteria, a certain criteria for the business that I wanted to buy. I wanted it to have a long tenure, a motivated seller who had a great history with the business, one that had grown and one that had a tangible product and ideally real estate. A Blind and Shutter Factory checked all those boxes for me. And what’s also great about the window treatment industry is the average ticket size, as well as the number of transactions that the business was performing was an attractive feature as well. And so I had looked at probably in depth 40 to 50 businesses before coming across AAA and Blind and Shutter Factory. And the way that I actually found it was through a broker. There’s multiple William Hanke (05:29) Okay. Ryan Murray (05:35) sit business brokers out there similar to real estate brokers, but please don’t confuse the two because they are very different. and the sellers who I purchased from had contracted a broker who had listed the business on business websites. There’s different websites where you can find businesses for sale. And so I had been performing a search, came across AAA, contacted the broker and we, took it from there. William Hanke (05:42) you I know there are several business brokers in my town, so I’m pretty sure they’re pretty easy to find across the board. Ryan Murray (06:08) Yeah, so, and those relationships, that’s just one flavor of search is you can do what’s called a brokered search where you focus on those relationships. And eventually I did have some brokers who would reach out to me with opportunities. And so there’s all different flavors of entrepreneurship or searching. And so that was just the type that I had pursued. knowing your business brokers as well as tax advisors or wealth advisors, those who are in the network with other business owners, real estate agents are good for that too, is a good way to find opportunities if you’re looking for a business to buy. William Hanke (06:42) Okay, all types of people that hang out at networking events. So they’re not hard to find, that’s for sure. Yeah, so tell me about once you got involved in the business, what was the first big change that you made? Ryan Murray (06:49) Absolutely. Yeah, so the first big change that I made was actually the time clock and payroll. The business was most processes were being done on paper, including the time clock for the production facility and all the employees. And so that was the first change I made was I made the time clock digital. William Hanke (07:02) Okay. Ryan Murray (07:14) The business wasn’t doing direct deposit, so they were issuing paper checks for payroll every two weeks. that it sounds like a small change, but it was a huge lift and the employees were really excited and not have to drive to the bank every other Friday to cash their check. The paper time clock had all kinds of issues. We actually had some fun one day, took the paper time clock off the wall and we went outside and beat it with a bat, threw it in the dumpster. William Hanke (07:36) What? Ryan Murray (07:37) as sort of a impromptu team building exercise. So that was the first big change. And the second one was instituting software. As I mentioned, everything was done on paper, including our ordering and quoting processes. And for 28 years, this business had succeeded that way, quoting on triplicate paper. And that was our source of truth for all customer information, all ordering products. And we now have that in an electronic system. And while it was an adjustment, it’s been a huge uplift for us to be able to track customer information, orders, have that all electronically so we can query it and just be more efficient and accurate in our coding and ordering processes. William Hanke (08:18) Yeah, I love those two changes and it is, it’s interesting how inconvenient it is now to go to a bank, right? We’re so spoiled that just something as simple as that can really make people happy. Ryan Murray (08:31) Yeah, and to me, they were pretty simple changes, but to the employees who had been there for a while, it made a huge difference. So ⁓ I was excited. But now we’re getting into some more difficult changes. Production facility we’re focusing on now, bringing in some automation, which what that means is bringing in some machinery to automate, particularly our shutter production process. We’r

Guest Profile: Mike Stolte Introduction: In a recent episode of Marketing Panes, we had the pleasure of sitting down with Mike Stolte, the driving force behind 406 Blinds, Montana’s top-rated window treatment business. Mike’s journey from managing satellite TV installers to leading a thriving local business is a testament to grit, strategic local marketing, and a deep commitment to community. His story is an inspiring example of turning challenges into opportunities. Summary: Mike Stolte’s path to success with 406 Blinds began with a pivot out of necessity. As the satellite TV industry declined, he saw an opening in the construction-driven window treatment market. Starting with just a $5 Craigslist ad, Mike built his business through grassroots efforts, community involvement, and a laser focus on customer service. His story highlights the power of local connections, smart marketing, and a resilient entrepreneurial spirit. From Decline to Opportunity: The Birth of 406 Blinds: In 2019, Mike faced a turning point. With the satellite TV industry on the decline, he recognized an opportunity in the growing window treatment market. This wasn’t a glamorous transition, but a strategic shift driven by necessity. Early Hustle and Organic Growth: With limited resources, Mike took a hands-on approach. He donned branded shirts, joined the Chamber of Commerce, and engaged in grassroots marketing—emailing builders, calling realtors, and going door-to-door. His first major breakthrough came from a simple $5 Craigslist ad, which surprisingly led to a contract with Lowe’s. The 406 Blinds Advantage: Local Roots, Local Trust: What sets 406 Blinds apart is its deep connection to the community. Unlike franchises, Mike and his team are Montanans serving Montanans. Their local roots and lower overhead allow them to offer competitive pricing and exceptional customer service. Diversified Revenue Streams: Beyond residential installations, 406 Blinds handles large commercial projects and maintains strategic partnerships, including a Costco dealership in North Dakota, expanding their reach and revenue. Smart Marketing, Simple Systems: Mike employs a blend of traditional and digital marketing strategies. From radio spots to geofencing ads, he’s gradually embracing digital tools while still valuing the power of chamber networking and community volunteering. Measuring What Matters: A key metric for Mike is his closing ratio, which he aims to keep between 60-70%. This helps him gauge pricing, value perception, and sales performance, ensuring sustainable growth. Growth Strategies That Scale: Mike’s approach to expansion is cost-efficient. Instead of investing in warehouses, he uses UPS store boxes for North Dakota deliveries, keeping costs low while scaling operations effectively. Community Involvement as Marketing: Mike is deeply involved in his community, participating in food drives and supporting local sports. This not only builds goodwill but also strengthens relationships, which are vital for his business. Mike Stolte’s Top Business Lessons: Don’t Give Up: Resilience is crucial in the face of challenges. Track Your Money: Good accounting software is essential for financial health. Think Like an Entrepreneur: Always seek solutions and opportunities when challenges arise. Conclusion: Mike Stolte’s journey with 406 Blinds is an inspiring story of turning adversity into success through hard work, community focus, and smart business strategies. His insights offer valuable lessons for any entrepreneur looking to build a thriving business from the ground up. Video https://youtu.be/qDFfndgb274 Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00) All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we have a guest with some great insights, and I’m very happy to have Mike on today. So Mike Stolte is the owner of 406 Blinds. He has grown his business every year since launching in 2019. As a premium partner with Graber, 406 Blinds operates in Montana and Bismarck, North Dakota, securing major installs, including 20 plus apartment buildings in Bozeman. Voted Montana’s best window treatment company in 2024. The company is also a Costco partner with Graber in North Dakota. And when not working, Mike enjoys the outdoors with his wife and three kids. Mike, thank you so much for being on. Mike Stolte (00:58) absolutely, thanks for having me. Will Hanke (01:00) I appreciate it. noticed when I was reading through that that I said North Dakota and that’s a very Midwest thing to say. anyway, thanks so much for being on. I really do appreciate it. You are you’re in the North Dakota area and Montana. So do you have two separate locations? Mike Stolte (01:05) you Yeah. Yeah, well, we started in Bozeman, Montana, kind of expanded to West Montana. So we’re strategic in Montana where we can cover a lot of estate. And then North Dakota came because I had the opportunity to go with Costco. So we’re basically on the I-90-94 corridor east to west. Will Hanke (01:41) Okay. Awesome. Cool. So before we got started, obviously we talked about some different things. And one of the things that you told me is that you managed satellite TV installers for 20 years before starting 406 blinds in 2019. What inspired you to transition to the window treatment industry? Mike Stolte (02:00) Well, I wish I could say I was inspired. It was out of necessity. DirecTV, I was with DirecTV 13, 14 years, managing installers. Before that I was with Sprint. And so I had 20 years management experience. And DirecTV was great until the end. Do you know how like the cell phone kind of took over the landline? This thing called the internet. Will Hanke (02:05) Okay. Yeah. Mike Stolte (02:30) and streaming put us, DirecTV, putting old school satellites on roofs, kind of, it turned it into a declining market. And it’s not completely obsolete, but close to it. At the time I saw one of my colleagues get laid off and I saw the writing on the wall that I was probably next. So, wanted to leave a declining market and… Will Hanke (02:51) Yeah. Mike Stolte (02:54) move into like an expanding market and the building industry was just booming here at the time. It still is in some ways, but it’s changed a little bit, but that is how I started 406 Blinds. Will Hanke (03:09) Interesting way to get into it. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about 406 blinds. What kind of separates you from some of your competitors? Mike Stolte (03:10) Thank Well, we’re not a franchise and I’m not knocking a franchise, believe me, a lot of my peers and networking groups are in a franchise. But what’s great about that is I don’t have any monthly fees. We operate at really low monthly costs. We’re local, local homegrown business. I’ve stepped foot in this valley in 1993. My Jeremy. Who helps me run the western part of the state is born and bred Montanen. We’re local. And that just gives us an opportunity to give really good high class customer service. We respond right away. And I feel like that’s a pretty, a lot of people, especially Montanens, even though we’re super widespread geographically. There are still less than a million people. So it is a small town feel and a lot of people love homegrown local businesses. Will Hanke (04:15) Yeah, yeah, that’s always a really nice point to have that local flavor to it. It gives you an advantage in some ways. Mike Stolte (04:23) For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Will Hanke (04:25) Yeah. So how are you positioning 406 to attract customers who are who are obviously valuing quality window treatments in a growing market like Bozeman? Mike Stolte (04:34) Yeah, no, that’s a really good question. And I think the word is out now. When I first started even six years ago, it was me and a couple of the brand names that you probably know. But now there’s seven or eight, nine companies on Google that will show up. The word is out now in town here. I can’t speak for everywhere. But if you call a blind person, you’re going to probably pay a little more and get a little better quality. So I don’t have to do anything proactive positioning. But once we do get in the home, some people do have a little sticker shock. And that’s when it comes into where you have to explain the value of what you’re offering. That we are much different than going to big box store and buying a blind there. We have a limited lifetime warranty. They’re going to last you 20 years. The energy efficiency, you just really explain the value to the customer. Will Hanke (05:28) Yeah, so the word is out, that’s great. What kind of marketing are you guys doing ongoing? Mike Stolte (05:34) It’s changed since the beginning. In the beginning, just starting out, like I had no capital. So I just went door to door, bought some shirts with my logo on it, joined the Chamber of Commerce to meet people and network. Just on the ground marketing, emailing builders, calling builders, emailing realtors, just old school marketing that’s essentially free. Will Hanke (05:57) Yeah. Yeah. Mike Stolte (05:57) And then once you get a little bit of capital, you know, we started doing radio commercials every year, which seems kind of antiquated, but it’s still here. You know, Montana is still local, has a real local presence. And now finally this year, I’m joining this century and doing some digital marketing as well. Will Hanke (06:14) Well, that’s great. I love to hear that. It’s really cool that you kind of, you you started as a as a grounds up, you know, hitting the hitting the road and eat what you kill kind of thing. Right. Yeah, yeah. And that’s that’s typical for a lot of business owners outside of like a franchise where you’re you’re kind of given an area, but you still got to beat the pavement a bit. But I but I do love the fact that you’re just. Mi

Guests Profile: Joe Kendall President – Made in the Shade Eastern Shore Owns Kendall furniture , Made in the shade dealer went from 58th place, to 5th place, to second place and in 2024 #1 Volume dealer in North America Ryan Gilberts Owner of Shaded Window Coverings With over a decade in the window covering industry, Ryan launched Shaded Window Coverings in 2022 to bring his vision to life. Starting as an installer and moving into sales, he quickly mastered the business and took the leap to entrepreneurship. Now, nearly three years later, his company is thriving, recently securing a six-figure project for 1,900 shades in a new apartment complex. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Joe Kendall visit: MITS Eastern Shore Ryan Gilberts visit: Shaded Window Coverings pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhI2cJpxIu8&ab_channel=WindowTreatmentMarketingPros Click here to display Transcript Transcript Will Hanke (00:00) All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of marketing panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their strengths, about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today is our Q2 preview. We’re going to talk about what happened in Q1. We’re going to talk about what we think is coming up in Q2. I’ve got two guests with some great insights that I’m excited to interview. First of all, we got Joe Kendall, president of Made in the Shades Eastern Shore. Joe owns Kendall Furniture, a Made in the Shade dealership. He went from 58th place to fifth place in the Made in the Shade franchise, then second place, and in 2002, 2024 became the number one volume dealer in North America. Joe, thanks for being on the show today. Ryan Gilberts (00:31) Okay. Joe Kendall (00:40) you You’re very welcome. We’re happy to be here. Will Hanke (00:57) Thank you. We’ve also got Ryan Gilbert’s Ryan owns Shaded Window Coverings in Montana. Shaded Shaded Window Covering started in May 2022 after Ryan was working for some other businesses in the window covering industry over the last 10 years. He wanted to. He first started in the industry as a part time installer, then moved to lead installer position and eventually a hybrid role of installer and salesperson. Ryan Gilberts (00:58) you Will Hanke (01:27) Now almost three years later, there’s really no turning back. He’s just started his largest sixth figure project, 1900 shades for an apartment building under construction. Ryan, thank you for joining as well. Ryan Gilberts (01:39) Thanks, Will. Will Hanke (01:40) 1900 so you’re going be a little bit busy I guess for at least the next couple days right? Ryan Gilberts (01:44) Fortunately, it’s being built out in stages. Will Hanke (01:46) Awesome. Yeah, that’s great. Congrats on that. So I want to start by talking about some different industry trends. What emerging trends are you guys seeing in the industry right now? And how can other window treatment dealers kind of align with these trends to stay competitive? Joe Kendall (02:02) Ryan, think what you’re doing is, Ryan and I spoke a little bit beforehand, Will, and we really love that the exterior market is exploding. you need to make sure you’re talking to your clients because they don’t know all the cool things you know as far as that goes. I was talking to Ryan and we were discussing how you might go into a customer wants to get some roller shades up on four windows that are consecutive. Ryan Gilberts (02:12) Yeah. Joe Kendall (02:28) And you leave the house with an exterior roller shade motorized. their beautiful in-tort, their trim on the inside is left alone. It’s gorgeous. And they can have that true builder look, but yet get the results they need when they need them. I think the exterior, and people, great too. I think they expect to pay more for exterior blinds. And it’s with the warranties that some of these manufacturers are offering, it’s really a great way to go. Ryan Gilberts (02:55) Yeah, I got to agree on that too, but. Will Hanke (02:57) Yeah, I like that. Ryan, are you seeing something similar? Ryan Gilberts (02:59) So yeah, I mean I like the exterior products They’re definitely a little bit more sleek, but they’re definitely a touch more expensive than some people anticipate But the cool thing is there’s a vast majority of dealers or I should say vendors that are starting to manufacture those and get into the market so I Don’t think price points all gonna be all that Will Hanke (03:21) I know when we talked with some of our guests on the Q1 podcast that we had talked about, they mentioned the luxury buyers are really popping up more. Are you guys seeing that as well? Ryan Gilberts (03:32) Absolutely. Joe Kendall (03:33) yeah. Yeah. Our average ticket for the last six months is up about 15%. Will Hanke (03:38) Okay. Joe Kendall (03:38) You know, we were in the $4,400 average ticket. We’re now in that a hair over 5,000, 5,200 area, which I think is just people are buying nicer stuff. Will Hanke (03:48) Yeah, I think that’s a great point. when I started in this industry as the marketing guy, about seven years ago, we niche down specifically just to the window treatment and awning industry. The average job was 2,500, 3,000. So obviously part of that is, I guess you could say inflation, but also I think it’s just people are buying better quality stuff. Ryan Gilberts (04:03) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Joe Kendall (04:11) And, you know, there was always… Go ahead, Ryan, I’m sorry. Ryan Gilberts (04:11) Absolutely. no, I was just saying absolutely. But I would probably say a year ago, I kind of crossed over that bridge with Hunter Douglas and became one of their dealers. But I will say that going into that bridge and are going into that realm of the market and being able to offer those very high quality products, my ticket sales have definitely increased tremendously. And I’m also getting a lot of those larger ticket deals and showing them. The cool stuff, I guess you can say. Joe Kendall (04:40) You know, and I train, we have two full-time salespeople. I still train them and remind them of the famous, you know, Bloomingdale’s three bread maker stories about a good, better, best versus just a good or a best. And, you know, I encourage my people that when they’re presenting a product, and let’s say they’re talking about a Roman shade or they’re talking about a roller shade, and you pop out a Hunter Douglas vignette, you know, I’m a big believer in telling the client straight up, hey, this is a more expensive product. There’s a decent chance, you the average salesperson might think, God, they’re going to be bummed. But really they go, cool, this is what I want. And I always like to tell people, because obviously if a roller shade was $49, we’d sell everybody we talked to. But not being afraid of the more expensive products and sharing with your customer, hey look. Ryan Gilberts (05:18) Okay. . Joe Kendall (05:32) This is a more expensive product, but let me tell you why and what you get. And then it’s like, well, this makes perfect sense. selling higher up, it takes work. But if you do it right, it really, really can pay off. Ryan Gilberts (05:37) Okay. I gotta agree with you on that. Definitely education with your customers or clients is I think gonna make you stand above the crowd and definitely show your worth and then also get those larger ticket items. Joe Kendall (05:56) Definitely, definitely. Will Hanke (05:57) I love the idea of upselling, right? You already got them on the hook. Now if you can walk out with 10 % more than you thought you’d get or something like that, it’s a fantastic growth strategy for your business. Joe Kendall (06:08) You know, I’m going to share a quick story if I could, Will. When I first started selling 30 years, 35 years ago, I was selling roofs and my closing ratio was excellent, but my gross profit was just barely average. So the owner says, Joe, I want you to go out to dinner tonight with Zeke, who’s our highest profit guy. makes a thousand dollars or more than you a week. He’s going to teach you how to sell higher. And I was like, my God, this is going to change everything. We go out to happy hour drinking, long story short, we get to midnight, we’re at 7-Eleven, we’ve had some cocktails. And I said, Zeke, we’re gonna be in deep trouble, you didn’t train me tonight. And we ran up the owner’s credit card. So Zeke can barely stand up and he asked the cashier, says, for a napkin and a pen. And I said, sure. So Zeke goes, here you go, on a 20 square roof, what’s your opening price? I said, well, I usually start around 4,200. Zeke burps up some beer and says, okay, try it again, but this time instead of writing a four down, write a five. And the moral of story is just open up a little higher and you’ll get more, it’ll make a higher sale. It’s that simple. Just start a little higher. And I always remind people you can’t go up, but you can go down. So that’s one of my favorite training stories. Will Hanke (07:17) I love that you were able to write the night off on the. Joe Kendall (07:19) You So. Will Hanke (07:20) Draining Cool, that’s great. I love to hear that so Quick disclaimer both of you guys are clients of window treatment marketing pros So you guys are obviously, you know doing the SEO stuff doing the paid ads. I wanted to talk a little bit more about professional connections Local networking those kinds of things. What are you guys doing in that area to help generate leads and maybe even longer-term relationships? Joe Kendall (07:49) Go ahead, Ryan. Ryan Gilberts (07:50) To generate leads, mean, I’m talking to the sphere of people that I hang out with. I’m pretty fortunate with the area in Montana that I’m at. We have a lot more cattle than we do people. So the people that I’m dealing with are going to be a lot of business owners. The 1900 shade project that I got was due to one of

Guest Profile: Amy Wollf She is an award winning designer and decorator providing custom window treatments in Scottsdale. WINNER 2022 VISION Design Award – Outdoor WINNER 2021 – Top Treatments WINNER 2017 – Specialty Windows | Certified Interior Decorator Amy recently celebrated being in the industry for 20 years! She has developed a reputation for successfully delivering functional solutions for intricate or technically challenging window configurations including custom window shades, custom and motorized window treatments, draperies, and even custom upholstered furniture. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Amy Wollf visit: Amy Wollf Interiors pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Summary In this episode of Marketing Panes, host Will Hanke interviews Amy Wolff, an award-winning designer and decorator specializing in custom window treatments. Amy shares her journey in the industry, her unique business model as a solopreneur, and her strategies for attracting premium clients. The conversation delves into the importance of personal service, navigating competition, and leveraging marketing strategies, including social media and PR efforts. Amy also discusses trends in the window treatment industry, maintaining business stability, and her aspirations for the future. Video https://youtu.be/H6dLxgc7qPs Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT Will Hanke (00:00) All right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk to real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today we’ve got a guest with some great insights that I’m excited to interview and I’ve known for a long time. She’s an award-winning designer and decorator providing custom window treatments in the Scottsdale, Arizona area. She is the winner of 2017 Specialty Windows Award, 2021 Top Treatments, and in 2022, the Vision Design Award for Outdoor. Amy recently celebrated being in the industry for 20 years. She’s developed a reputation for successfully delivering functional solutions for intricate or technically challenging window configurations, including custom window shades, custom and motorized window treatments, draperies, and even custom upholstered furniture. Amy from Amy Wolf Interiors, thank you for being on the show today. Amy (01:07) Thanks for having me, Will. Will Hanke (01:08) Yeah, I really do appreciate you jumping on. So I saw and I just read in your bio that you’ve been in the industry for 20 years. Congrats on that milestone. That’s pretty awesome. What inspired you to get into window treatments and interior design in the first place? Amy (01:19) Thank you. You know, it sounds cliche, but I was kind of born with it. I always did it. Even as a little kid, I was rearranging my room and painting it. So it’s just stuff that I’ve always done. Will Hanke (01:40) OK, yeah, that’s cool. it was you it was you were just born with it, right? Amy (01:44) Hahaha Will Hanke (01:46) I love that. So, so tell me a little bit about your business, Amy Wolf Interiors. Who do you serve and what sets you apart in your area? Amy (01:54) Well, I’m a solopreneur. I do not have a storefront. work from home because I go to my client’s home. I serve mostly, you know, the 45 plus crowd, the people who want some more luxury, the people who are willing to pay for custom, for something more unique than you could just buy online. or at Home Depot. And so that’s my crowd. They’re at the point in their life where they want better things, you know, and buy good by once and they just, you know, want to treat themselves better at the end of the day. Will Hanke (02:40) And you’re the right area for it. I know the Scottsdale area is growing like weeds Yeah, that’s great. So Talking about those maybe higher-end clients. I guess we could call them How do you position yourself to get those premium clients? for your services Amy (02:45) Always. Well, your whole brand, because I’m my brand, you you just position it differently. We don’t put out sales and we can beat anybody’s price. That’s not us. There’s plenty of people to do that for the people who want that. And that’s a good thing. And it’s more of a personal service. You deal with me. I’m not going to send three different salesmen. Out or you know and of course I have an excellent virtual team you know I have excellent workrooms I have the best installer so everything you know we have an onboarding we have an initial call we confirm everything you know our appointment we let them know we’re on the way you have to be very consistent because people are looking for that high customer service experience that you know there was a time that was the norm now they think it’s exceptional and Will Hanke (03:51) I love that you have a complete onboarding process and you’re really giving them an experience before you even do any work, really. Amy (04:00) Well, and at the same time, kind of qualifying them as well. You know, that they are the right client. Because, hey, it isn’t fair to my other clients to take time away from someone who isn’t a good fit. And I’m okay with that because there will be some, you know, I try to point them in the right direction if I’m not. So. Will Hanke (04:20) Yeah, yeah. In my world of digital marketing, there’s a thing where the form on your website, the more fields you put, the less likely people are to fill it out. However, the people that take the time to fill that out tend to be better clients. So I’m sure putting them through this same sort of process is very similar to that. Amy (04:43) Well, I don’t put them through every single one, make them fill out a form. It’s more of a phone call form. But you’re right, the ones who fill out my form online to contact me, they’ve already committed. Because they’ve taken the time, they’ve gone through and they like what they see already, and they’ll fill in what they’re looking for. So those are usually good solid prospects. Will Hanke (05:09) like that. So you mentioned that you have an installer on your team. Do you have a workroom that helps with some of the things that you do? Amy (05:13) Yes. Well, I have local workrooms that make just about everything we do in terms of soft treatments. Draperies, cornices, valances, you know, yes, and they also make custom upholstered furniture and they’re very good at what they do. And my installer is a separate person. Like I said, I kind of have a virtual firm and as needed call people in so we can accept a fair amount of volume. Will Hanke (05:24) Okay. it yeah and you’re not just focused specifically on window treatments you’ll help them with other things as well right Amy (05:52) I do, you know, I really, it’s my favorite thing to do. So I’ve really narrowed. I mean, I used to do remodels and new builds, pick all the, you know, all the finishes for those lighting countertops, cabinetry, everything. And I’ve pretty much eliminated that. I will help my window treatment clients if you know, Hey, what do you think of this? Where should I get that? If they want custom lighting, I’ll get it. but it isn’t something I chase after anymore in terms of a full blown house project like that. Will Hanke (06:23) Okay. Okay. There’s plenty of work in that part of the country, as I mentioned earlier. So it’s nice that you can be a little bit more specific about your audience. Amy (06:29) Yeah. Yeah, it’s just, it’s what I enjoy doing the most. And trust me, there’s plenty of competition in both. There’s plenty of interior designers doing all the design work and there’s plenty of other window covering companies out here too. And they all have a different niche, but there’s some overlap. You’re going to run into some now and again. Will Hanke (06:55) Yeah. Yeah. Have you created any special strategies to compete against the other people in town, specifically the larger dealers without compromising your kind of like boutique service model? Amy (07:10) Well, let’s face it, the larger dealers have a huge advertising and marketing budget. You know, I can’t bid against them at $500 a lead on Google, you know, and being everywhere like that. So I honed in and, you know, geographically, I honed in a lot closer to home because I provide better service if I can get there sooner or I can get there. Will Hanke (07:22) Right. Amy (07:37) you know, without having to schedule someone out a week and a half because I don’t have a big enough block of time for travel because it’s a big valley here and there are people who go anywhere. Well, that could be an hour and a half away. And that doesn’t serve my clients well. So I have honed into a very specific geographic area. Will I go elsewhere? Yes, but I don’t market to it. And what I do that’s different from the larger is the personal service. You’re not one of five appointments today. know, at most I’ll schedule two. A morning and an afternoon at most. Because there’s folks who I’m out of there in 45 minutes or an hour who are very decisive, they were very crisp on what they said they wanted. And there’s others who you like to chat and get to know you and take longer. And so I’m not, you know, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run. It’s just a more personal experience. And these are the people who like that. Will Hanke (08:28) Yeah, that’s great. Amy (08:29) They’re not calling five people and saying hand me a quote, hand me a quote, hand me a quote. That’s not my clientele. Will Hanke (08:36) sure. Do you have a way to filter those types of people out before you ever make it to their home? Amy (08:42) Usually on the initial phone call that’s usually between you know 20 minutes in an hour depending on how much they have to do and how much I’m trying to decipher Because they’ll tell you what they think they want, but that doesn’t mean they’re using the correct terminology You know I’ve had people call and say they want curtains, and

Summary In this episode of Marketing Panes, window treatment experts Josh Tycksen (Best Blinds and Sexy Shutters, Arizona) and Vince Sturkie (Best Blinds and Shutters, Carolinas) shared their experiences from 2024 and insights for 2025. The discussion covered market trends, technological adaptations, and strategic business approaches in the window treatment industry. Guests Profile: Vince Sturkie Started Best Blinds in 2001 after spending years in the mortgage banking industry. In 2001 I started and built Columbia SC’s largest window treatment store. After selling the Blind business I went back to mortgage banking by starting Hilton Head Mortgage in Hilton Head Island SC. But, I found myself right back in the window fashions industry when I started Best Blinds and Shutters in Greenville SC.in 2019. I now employ 2 of my 3 children along with my wife Sandra where we believe our greatest asset is that we are a local family owned business. Josh Tycksen Owner of Best Blinds and Sexy ShuttersWith a background in professional ballroom dance, Josh Tycksen brings precision, artistry, and attention to detail to every window treatment project, making Best Blinds and Shutters a trusted name in Arizona home improvement. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Vince Sturkie visit: Best Blinds and Shutters Josh Tycksen visit: Best Blinds and Sexy Shutters pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/OlS7zhOGN5w Click here to display Transcript Transcript All right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we are doing our Q4 review slash Q1 outlook for 2025 and excited to have two of the best window treatment dealers. in the US on today and that’s a little bit of a play on words here. So we’ve got Josh Tixon, owner of Best Blinds and Sexy Shudders. Josh has a background in professional ballroom dancing. Josh brings precision, artistry and attention to detail to every window treatment project, making Best Blinds and Shudders a trusted name in the Arizona home improvement. And then we’ve got Vince Sturkey, owner of Best Blinds and Shudders. Vince Sturkey owns Best Blinds and Shudders with a commitment to quality and trust, providing custom blind shades and shutters to homes across upstate South Carolina and western North Carolina. Guys, thanks so much for being on today. Vince Sturkie (01:13)Thanks Will. Will Hanke (01:15)Really appreciate you guys jumping on. So we’re going to get into a little bit of the Q4 and Q1 outlook kind of stuff. first, I have a personal question for each of you. Josh, I’m very intrigued by your journey from professional ballroom dancing to window treatments. How has that background and precision and artistry influenced your approach to the business? Josh Tycksen (01:40)It’s interesting. I’ve never really thought about it that way. I just grew up doing it because it was a good hobby. It a good way to meet chicks. My mom said I had to be in either some form of dance or art or music and I liked movement and I like music. I’m a very energetic person. I look like I’m always on about 10 Dr. Peppers, but I don’t really drink a lot of caffeine actually. I just have a lot of natural energy, but the benefits coming from it though are I had to work with a lot of different people in a very intimate Will Hanke (01:46)you Josh Tycksen (02:09)setting, know, where like partnering with somebody, your hands are right on each other, on each other’s back or whatever, and you’re very close and these boundaries are very different. And in learning how to work with, you know, so many different partners and people in those settings, I think it set me up for a lot more success working with the different kinds of people that I encounter on a daily basis in our appointments. And I can read a lot of body language. I don’t even think about it. I just can see it and other people might. not notice those same things, you know, yeah. And, know, and it just, yeah, a lot of attention to detail, cause that’s all you do. You practice some things and he says, Hey, that’s wrong. Do it again. Hey, that’s wrong. Do it again. It’s just the art of perfection. You’re just chasing over and over. And, the presentation at the end is something with the wow factor you’re really going for, where if you’re putting on a show or a performance that people want to be excited about it, and that’s what gets people come into your shows. And so I tend to have a same. flair for our things where I like to show up at the end of installs if I’m not already part of it. And I like to get them so jacked about the products that we’re putting up by the time they’re done that they really do appreciate things that they might not otherwise know about them and kind of go through a little bit of care and, you know, just tutorial with them where we get them all excited. Cause then by the end they’re, you know, they’re like, wow, wow. I had no idea. And, I think that takes them over the top where we can then ask them for those reviews and stuff, you know, really kind of kind of. rolls a cycle that just helps you grow and helps you stay busy. Will Hanke (03:38)Yeah, that’s a great strategy. I love the energy. I think that’s big piece, especially showing up at the end of the install and kind of hyping them up, right? That’s super cool. Very good. Josh Tycksen (03:51)Yeah, I 100 % agree. Especially, mean, like our favorite thing to sell is automation because people want automation. A lot of people ask for it not having any idea what it costs. And they just are thinking about the wow factor part of it. So if you can get them over the price and have something that you know they can count on and love and then really go through and set it up for them, they get really excited about it. So it’s fun. Will Hanke (04:13)Yeah. Very cool. So Vince, question for you too. We were talking before we started today about Josh’s business being called Sexy Shudders. And your comment was around the North Carolina, South Carolina area being a little more conservative. How does that play into your sales approach? Vince Sturkie (04:34)well you definitely got to you know check the room when you walk in every home here because you you know you could you know you don’t know so many people that are here came from somewhere else so you know when we’re here you know we we’re you know we’re country a lot of us are country boys from south carolina you know it’s more rural than it is urban and suburban here but you know we we’re we’re you know we walk in we see things you know you’re like okay what do i what hat do i need to wear today when i’m dealing with these folks but you know people move here for a reason and you know generally they have something in common with the people that are already here and they want to be here with us and so we just kinda just it’s just business as usual really for every single home you know we just went through the election that was kind of political you know you had to you know be a little bit more balanced and careful because you never know what home you’re in But at the end of the day, people are people. And they want to be helped with what they need. And they want you to treat them the way they want to be treated. And if you got all those bases covered, none of that’s going to matter. But it’s made for South Carolina to be a great place to do business right now. Will Hanke (05:46)Nice. Yeah. Like Josh said, you kind of got to read the room, right? And see what’s going on when you walk in. Vince Sturkie (05:54)Yes, absolutely. My installers can’t wear their Trump 24 hats on the job, right? I’m just like, keep it in the truck. But you know, we got a couple of different people here, so they’re all wearing different hats. But I just try to tell them that we’re here to love everybody, serve everybody, and everybody’s getting the same treatment with us. Will Hanke (06:16)Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Thank you. So let’s jump in and talk about Q4, how it’s been. And I think the big thing here is what is the biggest surprising shift that you guys have seen in customer preferences for window treatments? Josh Tycksen (06:35)Benz, you want to go first, you’re welcome to. Vince Sturkie (06:36)Yeah, I think for us here in South Carolina, Will, you know, we’re also getting a lot more requests for motorization than we’ve ever gotten. So we’re hearing motorization more so. Because we have a lot of people here in the South that move from the North, you’ve got a lot of people still asking for Honeycomb Shades, which was real big in the Northeast. You know, whereas in the South, we didn’t do a lot of that product. So as people are migrating to us, we’re seeing a shift toward more honeycombs than ever. Whereas back in 01 when I started, honeycombs were real big, now it’s roller shades, right? So, you know, we’re still seeing people come in asking for roller shades. I think the biggest shift now today in our industry from when I first got in it in 01 is the money flow. We’re having… Back then the average ticket was less than two grand. Now we’re having people spend ten, fifteen thousand dollars like it’s two thousand dollars. And this is cash money, this isn’t borrowed money. So we’re seeing a shift toward higher tickets, we’re seeing a shift toward nicer products, and we’re seeing a shift in people being more easily letting go of the money. Which is really helpful in our business, especially when the margins start tightening. Will Hanke (08:03)Right. Yeah, Josh. I saw you nodding your head around the the motorization stuff. I know you actually mentioned The automation piece a little earlier. Is that the same thing you’re seeing? Josh Tycksen (08:15)Yeah, I mean, I’m trying to always open up our portfolio of what we’ll offer so t

Guest Profile: David Soria David has been in the industry since the mid 90s before joining America’s Window Covering Buying Network in 2021. His previous experiences include in-home sales for a local retailer and sales management as well as field sales for national brand suppliers to the industry. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about David Soria visit: America’s Window Covering Buying Network pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/VO5DQ6HmtmU Click here to display Transcript Transcript William Hanke (00:02)All right, hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today’s guest is David Soria. David has been in the window treatment industry since the mid 90s before joining America’s Window Covering Buying Network in 2021. His previous experiences include in-home sales for a local retailer and sales management, as well as field sales for national brand suppliers to the industry. David, thank you so much for being on today. David Soria (00:43)welcome. William Hanke (00:45)Excited to have you here and kind of talk through a little bit about what’s known as the network, I guess, right? Yeah, awesome. So why don’t you start out by sharing a little bit of background about your journey, obviously, in the window treatment industry and some key roles that have helped you kind of shape your expertise. David Soria (00:51)Yep, that’s right. Sure, sure. You I got started in the industry when I answered a newspaper one ad, if you remember those, looking for a salesperson, somebody who might have an interest in design and who would be doing shop at home sales for that company. at the time I’d done some in-home sales, had a background in theater design and also in teaching. William Hanke (01:15)You David Soria (01:33)And the job sounded interesting. And this was for a fairly large window coverings retailer in the Chicago area. And when I started with them, they had over a dozen shop at home decorators working for them, big company. They had their own workroom, made their own drapery, vertical, shears, top treatments. And, you know, talk about a nice problem. They were drowning in leads. I got a two week crash course in their showroom on blind shades and drapery and then I started taking sales calls. I mentioned that they were busy. I still remember I took 20 in-home calls my first full week with them. Mostly for hard treatments but still 20. A of customers to see. The owner had really great plans to expand. William Hanke (02:21)Wow. David Soria (02:28)eventually moved me into a supervisory role doing ride-alongs with the team, training, setting up promotions, working with the general manager and our marketing manager to develop programs and incentives. At the time, I didn’t know that the owner was building up some debt behind the scenes and that eventually caught up with him and forced him to close. I was fortunate enough to leave before that happened. I then went to work as a territory rep for a hard treatment fabricator that had recently expanded into the Midwest. I was with them for some really tremendous growth and change at that company and the industry. We saw our product mix shift dramatically from more commodity products like verticals and cellular into the explosion of interest in horizontal woods then. natural shade category and really the first big wave of screen shades and motorization. That company was eventually purchased by a larger national company right around the time of the 07-08 financial crisis and a number of years later they got absorbed into another company. I continued with them for a number of years before I moved on. wanted to make a change, do less travel and have more time with my family. But it was a great way to learn about the industry. I couldn’t have asked for a better training ground. Having a chance to do the shop at home taught me a ton about product sales and the challenges that designers and retailers face every day. That in turn made me a better territory rep for the two companies I worked with. you know, walked in the dealer’s shoes before. So I knew how important training, follow-up and the dealer support really could be. Now, as you said, I’ve been with America’s Window Covering Buying Network almost four years now as national sales manager. And that gives me an opportunity to really synthesize a lot of those previous experiences as I work with our account team, our members and our vendors. William Hanke (04:52)Yeah, I love the fact that you’re kind of homegrown, right? You’ve already walked the walk and you understand what they’re going through now, right? And the kind of struggles that they have, even down to the point of understanding the in-home sales process. I love that. David Soria (05:07)Yeah, yeah, and it is a process. William Hanke (05:10)Very good. Yeah. Yeah. So all that brings you to what we call the network. And tell me a little bit about AWS CBN as an overview. David Soria (05:18)Yeah. Yeah, sure. America’s Window Covering Buying Network. And we shorten that to the network a lot of times. We’ve been servicing the company’s been servicing the industry for over 20 years now. And in fact, one of the vendors that I used to work with had been a supplier. So I remember meeting with the owner here at the network, Alan Meyer, to discuss our company’s programs. They had to be, you know, over 10, 15 years ago now. William Hanke (05:48)Okay. David Soria (05:53)The company is a nationwide membership group serving window covering professionals, designers, workrooms, independent retailers. Now here I work with our account team as well as our members and vendors. I’m involved in several areas contributing to our printed newsletter, organizing monthly webinars for members, along with other functions here. It’s pretty amazing though to see the growth we’ve had just In the few years I’ve been here, we have members in all 50 states. We’re going to hit 1,500 members total before the end of the year, 2024. And right before the pandemic, we were happy to hit 1,000. So that’s some pretty significant growth. William Hanke (06:33)Nice. That’s fantastic. I love the list of things that you’re involved in. It doesn’t sound like you’ve got a dull moment. That’s awesome. That’s great. So Tell me a little bit more about a buying network. What is that and how does it benefit somebody who may be listening to the podcast today? David Soria (06:50)No, never a dumb moment. I love it. Sure. Well, to start off with buying groups have been around a long time and in a lot of different industries. The idea is pretty straightforward, pretty simple. Members of a buying group receive better discounts on their purchases because the group leverages the total buying power of the membership for the benefit of the members. Now in the window treatment industry, this means the vendors will offer network members discounts that members would not ordinarily be able to receive on their own. For some vendors, you know, I think you can think of it as a franchise level buying power. Various vendors offer sample discounts as much as 50%, a dealer spiff, aggressive promotions, some exclusive to the members. One vendor has even created a natural shade book that only members have access to to sell a private label option. And that’s obviously a real game changer for those members who were in competitive markets. William Hanke (08:10)There’s a lot of window treatment dealers out there now that are probably selling the products that you guys have partners with, and they don’t realize they could be getting some sort of a discount just by being in the buying network. David Soria (08:22)Right? Right? William Hanke (08:24)Yeah, that’s pretty cool. So and you said it’s around close to 1500 now. So you guys got some decent leverage on the on that side as well. David Soria (08:34)Yes. William Hanke (08:36)That’s great. I love to hear that. That’s really cool. Kind of a different approach to it. What is when we look at a WCBN or the network, what is kind of your core value proposition that you promote? David Soria (08:52)Sure. You know, our bottom line goal as a company is to help our members by making their businesses stronger, more profitable, and ultimately more successful. William Hanke (09:06)OK. And you guys do that through, obviously, the vendor relationships. But you also mentioned that you have some other things like a newsletter. Tell me a little bit more about that. David Soria (09:15)Yeah, sure. We publish a monthly newsletter that has a wide amount of industry information, articles, certainly from our vendors, but general interest articles to anybody who’s in the industry from industry experts, from Roger Mcgalliff, Deb Barrett, Jessica Harling, the one and only Will Hankey. contributes so it’s great and it’s a hard publication. mean we mail this out, it’s not an e-newsletter and we hear stories from our dealers who say, you know, can you tell me what the fabric is on the cover because I have a customer who saw it in my shop and is looking for that. So that happens all the time. William Hanke (09:45)you wow. That’s cool. I love that in the digital world, you guys are kind of going the old school route a little bit. And and the newsletter is not just like a sheet of paper. Like it’s it’s a legit magazine, I guess. That’s great. And every month different every month, obviously, the the the people that submit articles. But you guys also have things in there specific to vendors teaching that kind of stuff as well. Right. David Soria (10:22)28 page, Yep. Yep. We view it as an educational piece that anybody who picks this up, you know, it’s like, it’s like going to a training, right? If you can walk out of a training meeting with a vendor or speaker and walk away with o

Guest Profile: Jessica Harling Jessica Harling is a 4th Generation Window Treatment Specialist, founder of Behind the Design, and leading expert in employee and process development for design trade organizations. Behind the Design nurtures top talent through recruiting, onsite and online training, and consults with leadership in streamlining processes that increase productivity and impact the company’s bottom line. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Jessica Harling visit: Go Behind The Design pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/dLncJU8JgzQ Click here to display Transcript Transcript Will Hanke – WTMP (00:00)All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today I have our first ever return guest and you know, when you’re, when you’re really good at what you do, you got to have them back on to pull out some more knowledge. So I’m excited to have Jessica Harling on today. Jessica is a 4th generation window treatment specialist, founder of Behind the Design and leading expert in employee and process development for design trade organizations. Behind the Design nurtures top talent through recruiting, on -site and online training, and consults with leadership in streamlining processes that increase productivity and impact the company’s bottom line. Jessica, thank you for being on today. Jessica Harling (00:54)It is my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me again. I’m excited. Will Hanke – WTMP (00:59)Yeah, yeah, you’re pretty well known in the industry. So I’m sure a lot of people know who you are if they haven’t already heard the previous episode. But excited to have you on. For those that maybe don’t know, could you share a little bit of your background and your current role in the window treatment industry and how you help businesses succeed? Jessica Harling (01:18)Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have a love of it that is very deep. I’m fourth generation in window treatments. So my great grandfather started business in 1936 in Chicago, and that’s where I learned the business. Got into it about 14 years ago and worked with my mom and my grandpa and opened then the consulting firm behind the design about eight years in. and just haven’t looked back. It’s been a pleasure working with other window covering companies and interior design trades to help them with their recruiting, training, or their process development, which is my favorite part, is getting in there and uncovering what inefficiencies there are and making it more streamlined so that they can scale, they can get to those goals that they’re looking forward to. Will Hanke – WTMP (02:14)Yeah, I love that you grew up in the industry and you’re kind of like in it whether you wanted to be or not, right? I’m sure after school you came home or you came to the store and helped out and I also love that you found a niche inside of that. You didn’t just turn into another sales, into your salesperson like maybe your parents did that kind of stuff. I love that you kind of found your own path. Jessica Harling (02:39)Yeah, I really, I loved it. And the funny part is I didn’t know what my parents did for the longest time, my mom, my grandpa. I mean, they knew they were in design and I knew that every year when we had a garage sale, we’d be selling a lot of fabric and we had bolts and bolts of it in their garage. But before I got into the industry, I really didn’t know anything about it and wasn’t that kid that was going into the shop and stuff. So I learned everything from Will Hanke – WTMP (02:48)You Okay. Jessica Harling (03:08)the incredible reps in this industry and of course the knowledge that my family brought to it. But that’s, you know, all been generated from working in the industry. Will Hanke – WTMP (03:19)Right, right. So tell me who your target market is for behind behind the design. Jessica Harling (03:25)Yeah, well we certainly love window covering companies still. So we work with a lot of them, but I’ve tried to expand it to the interior design trades. So we work with whole handful of interior designers, flooring, paint companies, anything that’s gonna beautify a home or even work with commercial companies. But usually our clients are starting to hit over that million dollar mark. They might be approaching two million. and we help them get and scale to that $10 million mark or wherever their goal is towards that. Will Hanke – WTMP (03:55)Okay. Okay, that’s a great niche. They have enough revenue to make changes, get things done. And also at a million, you’re probably to the point where you kind of have to get your SOPs in place. In a lot of places, they probably haven’t done that. And somehow they’re still selling a million dollars a year, which is insane. Jessica Harling (04:10)Yes. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s just so fun working with those business owners and teams. You we’re not just working with the owner. So everyone is on the same page with those processes because they’re the ones executing on it. So they need to get behind it. Will Hanke – WTMP (04:31)Yeah. Right, right, very good. So how do you position yourself in the eyes of your customers? Jessica Harling (04:41)Yeah, I’m big on business development and one of the things that even, you my clients have commented on is that I have friends everywhere. And so part of working with Behind the Design is a holistic view of everything in their business. mean, literally we’ve helped with restructures where they thought they were going out of business and they had half a million in debt and we flipped it all around, got them profitable, put structures in place, hired a bunch of people, them all. So whatever the problem is, we’re there to tackle it. And I know you’re big fan of Traction by Gina Wickman. It’s one of my favorite books. And so for anyone that loves that too, we are the integrators. That’s what we do. We take your ideas, your vision, and we come up with a plan and a pathway that makes sense for everyone in the company and how to execute it. And then we help you do that. Will Hanke – WTMP (05:35)Love it. Every visionary needs an integrator, right? That’s great. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. As a business owner, we have way too many ideas, and we really need somebody to say yes or no or let’s table that, right? Or else we just have tons of ideas for the most part. Jessica Harling (05:38)Yes. It’s for you. Mm Thank That’s right. That’s right. And sometimes to have no idea of like how to actually implement it, like might be so innovative that it hasn’t been done before. how do we create, how do we engineer something to make it happen? And that’s what we love to do. We like to take those ideas and then build the foundation around it. Will Hanke – WTMP (06:16)Yeah, yeah, awesome. So I went back and looked on my website. It looks like you were on episode 21 of ours, and we talked a lot about hiring. So today, we’re going to switch it up a little bit and talk more about sales and lead handling, that kind of stuff, so that when the phone rings, what do you do, right? So let’s talk about that. When a lead comes in, what really is the first step that a business should take to ensure Jessica Harling (06:38)you Will Hanke – WTMP (06:44)that it’s managed effectively and obviously moves towards a sale. Jessica Harling (06:49)Yeah, you know, this may sound really simple, but you have to engage in some exciting, passionate, bubbly way, whether they are walking into your showroom or they’re calling you. It is so amazing. I’ve walked into so many showrooms where the associate is just sitting there and they don’t even say hi when you walk in or they don’t even look up. And so my rule of thumb always in managing a showroom was someone walks in the door, you stand up and you go greet them. And if they don’t need you, you can hover and go in another area, but you need to give that big warm welcome. Thank you so much for joining, know, coming in here. Not give them five minutes and then maybe you’ll approach them. Will Hanke – WTMP (07:33)Yeah, I like that. I listened to a phone call today from one of our clients and the phone was answered, I’ll role play here, ABC Blinds. And that’s all they said, right? They’re like, what do you want? Jessica Harling (07:44)Right? Yeah, you interrupted me. Yeah. Will Hanke – WTMP (07:51)Yeah. So I think having something in place, like you said, be excited about it. And I guess it probably gets a little bit monotonous if you’re the one on the ladder doing the installs and the phones are ringing. I can see it being a little bit of a frustration, but there’s probably ways to handle something like Jessica Harling (08:11)Yeah, I mean, you gotta assume that that’s your next big… break your big deal, you know, they could spend $100 ,000 with you. You have no idea. And I had that exact example happen when I was working in the family business. We were within a kitchen and bath showroom, very large in the Chicago area. And they in the area have this reputation for not being warm and fuzzy. You know, you don’t as a consumer walk in and like get incredible service. It’s because they’re more to the trade, but they like literally will ignore you. you when you walk in. And there was a woman that came and strolled into my section of the showroom and I stood right up. I was even training someone. I was like, all right, perfect example. Let’s stand up and greet her. And I go over and she’s like, Will Hanke – WTMP (08:55)Yeah, yeah. Jessica Harling (08:59)not a single person. I’ve been here for an hour’s greeted me.” And I was like, Whoa, well, so sorry. Let me help you now. And she goes off. She was like, that is not service. I have so much money. I could fly to Timbuktu and back in a day. And it would be, you know, like I’d

Guest Profile: Michelle Williams Michele Williams is the dynamic owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metrique Solutions, specializing in empowering creative professionals in the design industry. She offers strategic business coaching and financial analytics, helping interior designers, workrooms, and window covering professionals navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship. Through Scarlet Thread Consulting, Michele provides tailored coaching to achieve financial clarity and operational efficiency. Metrique Solutions offers technology-driven software to optimize pricing strategies and enhance profitability. Michele’s work transforms businesses and inspires growth in the design community. Key Takeaways In this insightful podcast episode, Michelle Williams, owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metric Solutions, shares her expertise on financial management for window treatment and awning businesses. Key takeaways include: The importance of understanding how money flows through your business. Implementing a profit-first approach to ensure sustainability. Strategies for effective budgeting and marketing spend. Tools and resources for better financial management. Preparing for and handling financial setbacks. Understanding the Basics of Financial Management The Fundamental Principles Michelle emphasizes the critical importance of understanding how money moves through your business. This includes: Identifying primary revenue streams. Understanding cash flow patterns. Knowing your cost of goods and operating expenses. She stresses that many businesses fail due to poor cash flow management, highlighting the need for a solid grasp of these fundamentals. Implementing a Profit-First Approach Michelle advocates for a “bottom-up” financial approach: Determine desired profit after taxes. Account for taxes and savings. Calculate necessary operating expenses. Work upwards to determine required sales. This method ensures that profit isn’t an afterthought but a planned component of your business model. Effective Budgeting and Marketing Strategies Creating a Marketing Budget Michelle suggests: Conservative businesses: 6-8% of gross profit for maintenance. Growth-focused businesses: 8-20% of gross profit. She cautions against exceeding 20% to maintain overall financial health. Measuring Marketing ROI To effectively measure marketing ROI: Set clear expectations for each marketing activity. Track relevant metrics (e.g., website clicks, lead generation). Understand the cost per lead and return on investment. Michelle emphasizes the importance of giving marketing efforts enough time to show results before making decisions. Tools and Resources for Financial Management Michelle recommends: Accounting software (e.g., QuickBooks, FreshBooks) Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems Financial dashboard tools like Metric Solutions These tools help track financial data, manage customer information, and provide insights for decision-making. Preparing for Financial Setbacks To minimize and handle financial setbacks: Create separate bank accounts for different business purposes. Save for unexpected expenses and taxes. Plan ahead for hiring and expansion costs. Develop contingency plans for various scenarios. Effective financial management is crucial for the success and sustainability of window treatment and awning businesses. By implementing these strategies and using the right tools, you can make informed decisions, optimize your marketing spend, and build a more resilient business. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Michelle Williams visit: Scarlet Thread Consulting pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/H-9mjW__YXI Click here to display Transcript Transcript Will Hanke – WTMP (00:00)All right, hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we have a service provider who I’ve known for many years. We’ve always bumped into each other at IWCE, and I’m very happy to finally have Michelle Williams on the podcast today. Michelle Williams is the dynamic owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metric Solutions, specializing in empowering creative professionals in the design industry. She offers strategic business coaching and financial analytics, helping interior designers, workrooms, and window covering professionals navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship. Through Scarlet Thread Consulting, Michelle provides tailored coaching to achieve financial clarity and operational efficiency. Metric Solutions offers technology -driven software to optimize pricing strategies and enhance profitability. Those sounds like things that people would be interested in. Michelle’s work transforms businesses and inspires growth in the design community. Michelle, thank you so much for being on today. Michelle Williams (01:17)It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Will. Will Hanke – WTMP (01:20)Yeah, very excited to kind of jump in and learn some stuff, especially on the finance side. I think that’s always a struggle for small business owners along the different stages of growth. All right. Well, so let’s jump right in. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about your background and how you became an expert in financial management for businesses? Michelle Williams (01:31)Sure. Yeah, so my background, I started in software development for Dun & Bradstreet software and built financial software. So all the way back in the day, back in the 80s when the dot com was booming and everything was moving in that direction. Yeah, so I was building accounts, payable general ledger, purchasing inventory. I think even before I really knew what they meant in the real world, I mean, I had an idea of what they meant for sure, but I had not owned my own companies at that point. And so I knew the accounting behind them and why it worked together and how they worked together in the touch points. And then after about 10 years of that, I came home to raise my children. had a little boy that was one and a little boy that was three and a half. And believe it or not within about, I’m going to say about a year of being home. In that year, I did all the window treatments in my own home, made them all. We had just bought a new home and my neighbors started ringing the doorbell and asking me to make window coverings for them. So I jumped right in with my good old plastic Costco table and my home sewing machine. And I started making window treatments, custom window treatments until I started figuring out, know. Will Hanke – WTMP (02:54)you Michelle Williams (03:01)the better ways to do it and the right ways to do it. And then of course I’m in the homes and they’re asking me to sell them blind shade shutters and I’m gonna say yes. If I’m already at the window, I’m gonna treat the window. And so long story short, I found myself in a position of not making the money that I wanted or needed to make because I was so excited about the doing that I wasn’t paying attention to the marketing, to the pricing, to the… you know, the nuance of running the business. was, if you’ve ever read the book, E. Mithre Visited, I’m sure you have, I was very much the technician who built the business and was staying the technician. And I had not looked at the management, the entrepreneurial, you know, the visionary. I had not even looked at those things. I just found myself in the doing of the business. And in that doing, I wasn’t making the money that I needed to make. And so long story short, my husband said to me on a tear -filled call, that said we owe money so that I can work for rich people. He said, you know what you’re doing. Like you know the pieces is you’re just not looking at your business the way that you looked at the million dollar budgets that you rent. I mean, I build a project accounting system. I was the development manager. I’m building a two and a half year project accounting system. So it wasn’t that I didn’t understand it. I wasn’t applying it. And it’s interesting, Will, I hear that a lot from people that actually have business degrees or finance degrees or even marketing degrees. Will Hanke – WTMP (04:00)You Thank Michelle Williams (04:26)There’s one thing about learning it in school and even doing it for a large corporation, it’s a different mindset to come back and do it on at that point what was really a micro business for me. And so that kind of led me down the path of looking at where am I acting like a hobbyist? Where am I acting like a business owner? Where do I need to shift some of the things that I’m doing? Where do I need to gather control? If I’m going to do this, I was making six figures. I’m going to make the money or I’m going to go back to work. Like this doesn’t make any sense to me. And so to make a long story even shorter, I learned how to do it. I started putting in best practices, taking everything that I learned on a macro, moving it to a micro. And then I started teaching it and sharing it with other people because once you have that aha, you can’t hold it back. can’t, I was watching other professionals who were super smart and super gifted and they weren’t making the money and I was like, well, let me tell you what to look, let me tell you what to track, let me tell you how to do it. Have you considered this? Have you considered that? And then over time, they started putting those things into practice and implementing those. And then I started teaching classes about it and traveling the United States to teach it. Will Hanke – WTMP (05:43)That’s awesome. I think that story resonates with a lot of our listeners, you know, that you did it yourself and suddenly you found yourself doing it for others. And maybe there’s a business here, right? Michelle Williams (05:54)Right. And

Guest Profile: Georgiana Schwandt Georgiana (Georgi) Giese Schwandt, founder of Incredible Windows, hails from central Illinois where she imbibed the values of hard work, compassion, and dedication. A former educator with 28 years of experience across four school districts, Georgi now leads her team in covering thousands of windows in the greater Madison, WI area. Her commitment to serving clients with kindness and respect remains unwavering. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Georgiana Schwandt visit: https://www.incrediblewindows.com/ pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/YW2v9y3cOOY Click here to display Transcript Transcript [0:02] Alright. [0:02] Hello everyone. [0:03] Welcome to another episode of marketing pains. [0:05] My name is Will hanky. [0:08] This is the podcast where we talked with real window treatment and Awning business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business today. [0:18] We’re on covering success. [0:20] This is episode 33 and I’m excited to have Georgiana Schwandt who we called Georgie with us from Madison, Wisconsin. [0:30] She has been a client of ours for probably around I think nine or ten months now and we’re excited to have Georgie with us today. [0:38] And let’s Jump Right In Georgie. [0:40] How are you? [0:41] I’m good. [0:42] Well and you doing fantastic so excited to have you on today? [0:47] Thank you. [0:47] I appreciate the opportunity. [0:48] Well, yeah. [0:50] Well, let’s Jump Right In tell me a little bit about your business. [0:53] It’s called incredible Windows. [0:55] You’re in the Madison Wisconsin area. [0:58] Tell us a little bit more. [1:00] Well, so my story would I give him a very abbreviated version when I meet with a customer is this simply this is my retirement business. [1:11] So I had a real job for 28 years as a high school educator and I retired relatively young in as far as Retirement term door speaking and I needed something to do and look around for about two years trying to figure that out. [1:27] Try different things including real estate appraisal. [1:30] I hated it took the courses got certified and I don’t like this. [1:34] So I thought well, let’s look for something else and I went out for lunch or someone who is selling window treatments in Northern Illinois. [1:42] And she said you had to do what I do. [1:43] I said I think you’re right and it was about that quick. [1:47] So that was in 2006 and here I am almost 18 years later selling window treatments on a part-time basis as I shop at home. [1:56] I’ve never had a storefront. [1:57] I never will and I I’m enjoy great success. [2:03] Wow, okay, so you don’t like the storefront idea tell me more about that. [2:09] Well, there are a couple reasons I decided that first of all, I was a high school principal in Madison for eight years managing lots and lots of people including students and staff and parents and you know legislators and being involved and I wanted a simple business model that was manageable. [2:31] I didn’t want to have the expense of the storefront and I have no regrets. [2:36] I know it took me a while to get started. [2:39] Of course, it wasn’t easy, but I feel like I’ve done it and I was still learning and I still when I do grow. [2:48] Good good. [2:49] So your business model is get the lead go to the home pitch the pitch the installer. [2:57] Whatever the product do you get the payment right then or do you go back and do a proposal and then of course do the install later? [3:08] Well, it works in different ways. [3:11] Ideally what actually the ideal situation happened yesterday where indeed I meant with a customer. [3:19] She did a remodel over 30 year old home and was when a new window treatments. [3:24] I we went in and talked about her needs and what she wanted and if it’s a she’s doing it in two parts. [3:30] So we did the bedrooms and baths first and if it’s a relatively small project meaning 10 12 15 blinds, I can do a quote pretty easily in the home and then I can present it to her and discuss it and I said, are you ready to move forward you want to think about? [3:48] Thought she said I’ll get my credit card. [3:51] Okay that one place in the home if it’s a more involved proposal. [4:00] Like I just did one actually a Monday just 38 hardwired roller Shades why I wanted to think about that a little bit. [4:08] I got to sign proposal this morning. [4:10] So, you know, it just differs on mature situation. [4:14] Sure Okay, it definitely makes sense. [4:17] Yeah. [4:18] Another one has to address throw that into where I’m at with it. [4:21] Mmm and no customer who’s building a new home and it’s you know, they’ve done the groundbreaking and all that. [4:28] So we just with a fine-tooth comb and through every room and discuss needs so it’s a process for some others. [4:36] It’s quick and easy. [4:37] Yeah. [4:37] Yeah. [4:38] So tell me about that mix new home construction versus people that are already, you know embedded in their home. [4:48] I Yes, well, I would encourage people if they’re building or remodeling a new home to contact a window treatment providers quickly as possible because too often they don’t think about things that we can help them with for example a popular door in Wisconsin today and that perhaps is Nationwide is a full glass or a partial glass on the as a window on the door. [5:16] Well people don’t often. [5:18] Think about the fact that that might need some privacy. [5:22] So if indeed a blind is needed they need to think about the door handle. [5:26] So can I get a blind behind that door handle and if it’s one of the you know, the lever door handles very popular today at new construction and remodels that’s more difficult. [5:38] It can be done but it’s more difficult. [5:40] So this I can point out simple things or another window treatment person can’t find those things out or simply the molding and the placement of the windows. [5:48] And do you really want that high window? [5:50] There’s a octagon, you know it just you know, as people are beginning to think about a remodel or build. [5:57] It’s important to bring in that window treatment person. [6:01] Sure. [6:02] The other thing we can help them with in that situation is talking about if they want to do power house that blank going to operate. [6:09] Is it going to be a hard wire? [6:10] Is it going to be batteries? [6:11] Can you reach it plus the whole budget issue? [6:17] If they wait till the very end, it’s often like oh my gosh. [6:20] I didn’t realize custom window treatments were so much money. [6:24] But if we can help them with that to understand the value and the class upfront it behooves all of us. [6:33] Yeah. [6:34] Yeah makes that conversation a little easier than he does. [6:37] Yeah, I mean fortunately I’m going to be able to offer financing shortly to which will help them those bigger projects. [6:44] Yeah, yeah, that’s going to be a big game changer 24. [6:48] Yeah. [6:48] I’m looking forward to having that option for customers. [6:51] That’s awesome. [6:52] That’s great. [6:53] So we’ve been talking kind of about your ideal customer. [6:56] What about commercial? [6:58] Do you guys do any commercial work or is it mostly all residential we do some commercial work the one I just told you about the 38 hardwired rollers is a commercial project. [7:08] But the way I get the commercial projects is typically because I’ve done the customers home. [7:15] and they’ve you know, we’ve had the camps to work together and this one I mean they they didn’t do any shopping that I mean, I’ve helped them multiple times in multiple projects and they just fortunately like to work with me and I gave him a fair price and I’ll forego so I only do small commercial projects and then a lot of Culver’s in the Madison area some smaller instruments offices and not a couple of wineries, but not the big not the big High-rise residential Halls on campus and I’m not doing that kind of work. [7:51] Very good. [7:52] Okay, very good. [7:53] Cool. [7:54] All right, so we talked about your story a little bit or who you are talked about kind of who your target market is. [8:03] Let’s let’s talk about the part that I really like, which is a marketing piece. [8:09] So tell me about your marketing mix. [8:11] I mentioned that you are one of our clients. [8:14] So you’ve got a digital marketing piece kind of tell us about the mix of what you’re up to. [8:19] Well, let me back up a little bit. [8:22] Well, you know as being in business 18 years the marketing has evolved significantly over the years, you know, I started long ago spending too much money on paper advertising. [8:34] Okay, you know I had some result now I’m talking like between 2006 2010-11 whatever peel that away because I wasn’t getting any well not any but the results I was looking for. [8:49] You’re talking about Direct Mail type stuff. [8:51] So I’m talking about this is really going to date me yellow pages. [8:56] Okay paper newspaper ads, you know those kinds of things. [9:01] I don’t even think there’s a yellow page book out there anymore. [9:04] I don’t know for sure. [9:05] I don’t have one. [9:06] That’s for sure. [9:07] But anyway, so that brings me no through the course of time to working with you. [9:13] Well, I’ve learned the value of the internet and Google my business and having a great website and consequently when we reached out to you you’ve helped me with all of that just yesterday somebody calls that hey week. [9:31] I called you because you’ve got a great website and I saw what I was looking for and when can we get together? [9:36] So and it’s going to be a great job great Polly told me over the phone so that Google My Business Connection the SEO that has been able to boost my business has has been tremendous. [9:50] So that’s what I’m relying on mostly today. [9:53] Okay, as far as As I’m getting the name out there about incredible windows.

Key Takeaways The market is seeing a shift towards luxury clients and budget-conscious customers. Technology integration, such as smart home features, is becoming increasingly important. Hiring and training remain crucial for business growth. The Sun Shading Expo showcased innovations in exterior shading solutions. Current Market Trends Shift in Customer Base Mike Lewis notes a significant change in their customer base: “We’ve seen a lot of people go extra luxury and cost really wasn’t a factor… Or the opposite has hit and it’s like, hey, you we have this minimum and it seems like we’re getting a lot of minimum jobs too.” This polarization of the market presents both challenges and opportunities for window treatment businesses. Election Year Impact The upcoming election is affecting consumer behavior. Mike explains: “This happens every four years for us. Honestly, it’s election year and that’s is always a big thing and you know money trickles downhill.” Opportunities in the Luxury Market Jessica Harling emphasizes the importance of networking in the luxury market: “You have to go where they live… Whether that is being on a board or going to a charity event or whatever, you just have to go where they live and literally network with them.” Technology and Innovation Smart Home Integration The podcast highlights the increasing importance of smart home technology in the window treatment industry. Features like motorization, solar panels, and integration with voice assistants are becoming standard expectations for many customers. Innovations from Sun Shading Expo Mike shares an interesting innovation he saw at the expo: “There was a retractable awning company that will still are retractable awning that we have puts lights in there. They’re actually integrated in it’s not an aftermarket thing.” This kind of integration showcases how the industry is evolving to meet customer demands for both functionality and aesthetics. Hiring and Training Challenges Changing Perspective on Hiring Jessica challenges the common notion that it’s hard to find installers: “It is not hard to find installers. It is hard to find what is the expectation in your head of a perfect installer. You have to train them.” Importance of Training Both guests emphasize the crucial role of ongoing training. Mike shares: “Training them after, basically we always say after a year is when you should probably stop making mistakes, right? But it takes a long time to really get there.” Looking Ahead to 2025 As the industry prepares for 2025, both guests are focusing on growth and preparation. Mike is expecting a “good bounce back” and is focusing on SEO to prepare for increased demand. Jessica is planning group workshops across the country to provide training on products, sales, and customer service. The window treatment and awning industry is evolving rapidly, with shifts in customer demographics, technological advancements, and ongoing challenges in hiring and training. By staying informed about these trends and adapting strategies accordingly, businesses can position themselves for success in the coming year. — Are you looking to improve your window treatment business’s online presence? At Window Treatment Marketing Pros, we specialize in digital marketing strategies tailored for the industry. Contact us today to learn how we can help you reach more customers and grow your business. Video https://youtu.be/3AtF8RAVYyE

Guest Profile: Casey Richardson Casey Richardson is a Partner & Co-Founder at Craft Agency Group, a white label agency specializing in lead generation Facebook Ads. Focusing on niche agencies working with local service providers, Craft fills a gap in the white label marketplace – offering Facebook Ads at the highest level possible. Casey is known for his data-driven approach and expertise in testing and optimization, making him one of the most sought after strategists in the industry.Casey’s dedication to the agency community runs deep, and in addition to being a trusted service provider for some of the fastest-growing agencies in the country, he is also a coach, consultant, and speaker. Other Notes/Links: To learn more about Casey Richardson visit: Craft Agency pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Video https://youtu.be/oDHByxYBYqk Click here to display Transcript Transcript Will Hanke – WTMP (00:00)All right, hey everyone, Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today we’ve got a great service provider who’s also been a friend of mine for a while and does some really great things. And I’m very excited to have him on today. So Casey Richardson is a partner and co -founder at Craft Agency Group and Ad School, specializing in lead generation from Facebook ads. Focusing on niche agencies working with local service providers. Kraft fills a gap in the white label marketplace, offering Facebook ads at the highest level possible. Casey is known for a data -driven approach and expertise in testing and optimization, making him one of the most sought after strategists in the industry. I’m lucky enough to have him on my podcast today. So Casey, how are you? Casey (01:01)Man, I’m doing great. What an intro. Thank you, Will. Appreciate it, man. Happy to be here. Happy to add value however I can. Will Hanke – WTMP (01:03)Hahaha Yeah, so I’m so very excited about Facebook ads. I know you’re doing some fantastic things over there. So for the listeners, I want to get in a little bit to obviously how they can use Facebook ads for their business. You know how you set things up. You know, we’ll kind of get through some different things. But before we get into all of that, why don’t you give me a little bit of background? Give me the story of how you got into the digital marketing world in the first place. Casey (01:39)Sure, yeah, man. You know, I was a creative freelancer for 10 years. So I was always doing something in small business, you know, typically around graphic design, photography, video, something in that kind of world. And, you know, one of my more recent ventures, I guess, that kind of like tipped everything over into marketing is I ran a video production business and that agency was actually the first business that I built up to a million dollars a year. And that one of the things that we came across in that process was like, okay, we film these great videos. Now what does the client do with them? And how do they actually maximize that investment? And we kind of started going into, well, let’s turn these videos into ads and make it more of like commercial campaigns and digital advertising for these businesses. And that kind of really opened my eyes to what digital advertising can do for a local business. And then, COVID came around. essentially the entire business evaporated overnight. Video production is probably one of the most, like one of the industries that was hit almost as hard as restaurants. There was no production that was happening in person at all during that time. And essentially my entire client base just completely went away. So I did have a couple of clients that I was still managing ads for and that was kind of the start of, maybe I could turn this into an agency. So I kind of ran that in the background for a little bit. know, money was tight, so I did have to go back and work for the man a little bit. you know, during that COVID time, I started working at Yelp as a sales rep. Your audience will probably have a love -hate relationship with that statement. Most sales reps from Yelp are very not helpful. And they tend to bombard business owners trying to sell them ads. And I was, I was definitely one of those people, but I was one of the good guys who actually knew what they were doing and, actually did help people. So I learned a lot from that process and that kind of gave me the sales chops that I needed to run an agency. And you know, that, that really opened my eyes to, there are a lot of business owners that have no idea what to do with marketing and they need help. And that opened the door. to, okay, let’s see what we can do from the advertising side. then one day, one of my clients that was stuck through it all through COVID and everything, I was running his ads and he was getting a ton of great results. He ran a hospitality group, hotel, restaurants, entertainment companies, all kinds of stuff. And he called me up one day and was like, what would it take for you to leave Yelp? And that was a really interesting question. And I had to think about it for a little bit and I threw out a number. And he didn’t flinch and he was like, yep, come run my marketing department and build it from the ground up. And that was the start of what is today. Craft. So, my, business partner is that same person that used to be a client of mine. and we built up a marketing agency that was initially the in -house marketing team for hospitality group. And then we turn it into an agency, which then led us to serving more agencies through white label, which then turned into ad school, which is the primary focus today. Will Hanke – WTMP (04:29)Thanks. Casey (04:47)which is training agencies, how to run ads for people like what your audience are. basically when you hire an agency, I’m the guy that trains them. Will Hanke – WTMP (04:52)Nice. Got it, got it, very cool. It’s interesting how we sometimes fall into a career or for a serial entrepreneur. Even then, we kind of fall into new business opportunities. I did something very similar. I would build websites and then just hand them over to the owner and say, OK, good luck. And I had no idea about the marketing end of it. And same thing. Once you started to learn it, you’re like, this is pretty awesome. So yeah. Casey (05:24)Yeah, very much so. Will Hanke – WTMP (05:26)Very cool, great. So let’s jump in and talk about some different things that our listeners could potentially learn from. One of the things that I wanted to talk about was best practices. I think that’s a good place to start. What are some best practices around running successful ad campaigns? Casey (05:38)shirt. Testing, testing, testing, testing. That’s a big one for me. I’m a huge advocate of listen to the data, not your gut. So a lot of the stuff with advertising that you think will work is probably going to underperform. And the stuff that you never would think would work is going to be some of the top performing creative or copy that you put out into the world. So it’s really important to listen to the data that tells the entire story. So I would say best practice that anyone can take is test as many things as you possibly can. Refresh it. consistently and listen to the data, not your gut. Will Hanke – WTMP (06:17)Totally makes sense. I definitely agree. You should be testing, you know, even other things, your newsletter, subject lines, you know, all these different things. You should always be testing some. So that’s fantastic. When it comes to Facebook ads, I don’t want to dig into the all the different types, but there are different headlines you can test, visuals, copy, you know, is there any order which ones are the best to test first? Casey (06:36)yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So we typically recommend that when you’re setting up a Facebook ad campaign, there’s three main things that move the needle. It’s your creative, which is the visual. Okay. So the photo or the video, then your headline is the second most important. And the third most important is the primary text in the ad. So that’s like your main body copy of the ad. So what we usually recommend is 10 visuals, whether it be images or videos or a combination thereof. And then five headlines and five primary text variations. And when you multiply all of those combinations together, you get 250 variables that you’re able to test, which is really cool. And that’s how you can test rapidly at scale just by having 10, five, and five. That’s 250 different variations of the same ad, essentially, with the same idea, the same hook. And you can really get some crazy results by doing that. Will Hanke – WTMP (07:36)I love that. And you don’t have to come up with 250 different ads, you know. Casey (07:40)gosh, Yeah, it’s much easier than that much more leveraged. So Will Hanke – WTMP (07:45)Yeah, so the system just takes those different variables, mixes them together, and then lets you know which combination worked the best. Casey (07:52)Exactly. Yeah. Yep. But if there’s if there’s one that’s the most important, it’s the visual for sure. Will Hanke – WTMP (07:54)Okay. Because it gets the most attention. guess it’s the first I grab her. Yeah, yeah, totally makes sense. Anything in the home services area, you’ve managed millions in ad spend. Anything in particular that comes to your mind that grabs people’s attention? Casey (08:01)Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, I think it actually seems a little counterintuitive, but I’m a big fan of ads that don’t look and feel like ads. I think that with Facebook and Instagram, and I think it’s also important to like, let’s say when I’d say Facebook ads, I’m including Instagram in that. Facebook and Instagram is together and whenever I say Facebook ads. So when we’re talking about, it’s essential