Agency Bytes

Featuring: Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales In episode 117, I sit down with Wanda Allen, international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Sales Strategies. With 25 years in the corporate world and a background in business banking, Wanda developed a systemized approach to sales follow-up that now helps business owners and sales professionals increase their close rates. We dive into the psychology behind why so many people avoid follow-up, the fears that hold them back (hint: it’s not really about time), and how a simple shift in mindset and process can transform your sales pipeline. Wanda shares data-backed insights, actionable tips for improving follow-up cadence, and even debunks myths about being “pushy.” Whether you’re in active outreach or avoiding the phone like the plague, this episode will motivate you to reframe your follow-up game—and pick up the phone with purpose. We also talk about her book-writing journey, the importance of believing in the value you bring, and a bucket-list dream that has her heading south of the border. Key Bytes • 98% of sales don’t happen on the first contact—follow-up is essential. • Fear of being “pushy” and fear of rejection are the top two mindset blocks around follow-up. • 80% of sales happen between the 5th and 12th contact—most people quit after 2. • Follow-up is a form of service, not pressure—it shows interest and professionalism. • The phone is the most efficient tool in sales, yet it’s the most underused. • You can’t build trust without consistent, committed follow-up. • Stop assuming silence means disinterest—prospects are often just busy. • Confidence in your pricing comes from believing in your value. Chapters 00:01 – Introducing Wanda Allen and the importance of follow-up 01:04 – From corporate banking to follow-up systems expert 03:35 – Writing two books and why her first was retired 06:07 – The real reason people don’t follow up: mindset and fear 07:59 – How to prioritize follow-up and overcome procrastination 11:00 – Why consistent follow-up beats your competition 14:12 – Action over anxiety: staying out of your head during follow-up 16:18 – The forgotten power of the phone in today’s sales world   Wanda Allen is an international speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. She's also the author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. Wanda had a 25 year corporate career where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years. She has a strong skill set for developing systems and applied this skill to the follow up process. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals increase pipelines, improve sales performance, and strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills. Contact Wanda on their website, LinkedIn, or Facebook.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!   Featuring: Michael Janda, More Creative Academy In episode 140, I sit down with Michael Janda—agency founder, bestselling author, and one of the most respected voices helping creatives master the business side of creativity. Michael built and sold Riser, worked with giants like Disney and Google, and later led creative teams at Fox before dedicating his career to teaching creatives how to price, position, and run their businesses without burning out. We dig into the mental and operational “growing up” that every creative eventually faces: getting past portfolio thinking, charging confidently, understanding value, eliminating chaos, and building a more peaceful (and profitable) creative life. Michael’s straight-talk wisdom hits every agency owner exactly where they need it—no fluff, no ego, just clarity. Key Bytes • Why creatives struggle with pricing — and how to fix it • The mindset shift from freelancer to business owner • How Michael positioned his agency to win massive clients • The surprising relationship between process, profit, and peace • What creatives get wrong about value • Why “portfolio thinking” holds owners back • How to build a business that supports your life, not the other way around Chapters 00:01 Welcome + Michael’s background and agency journey 04:12 From creative chaos to building processes that scale 09:45 Why pricing is emotional—and how to make it objective 14:30 Portfolio vs. business owner mindset 19:58 Finding ideal clients and positioning that works 25:21 How Michael sold his agency and what he learned 31:44 The psychology of creative profitability 38:10 Achieving peace of mind as an owner 44:22 Michael’s advice for creatives who feel “stuck” Michael Janda is an award-winning creative director, agency founder, and bestselling author. He built the creative agency Riser with clients like Disney, Google, Warner Bros., and ABC, then sold the business after 13 successful years. Before that, he served as a creative director at Fox. Michael is the author of Burn Your Portfolio and The Psychology of Graphic Design Pricing. Today, he shares practical, no-fluff strategies to help creative professionals master business, pricing, and growth. Connect with Michael through his Community, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, Website, or explore his Courses.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Melanie Chandruang, We Consult In episode 139, I sit down with Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a strategic operations partner for creative agencies. Melanie has spent the last seven years helping agencies tighten up their financials, streamline workflows, and build stronger leadership teams—while also navigating two maternity leaves, a cross-country move, and re-entering the industry in one of its toughest seasons. We dig into how she rebuilt WeConsult after stepping away to have kids, what’s changed in the agency landscape since 2023, and why she’s now staying higher-level as a fractional ops leader instead of getting buried in implementation. Melanie breaks down what healthy leadership actually looks like, why so many founders remain the bottleneck even after hiring “senior” people, and how clear ownership, scorecards, and trust change everything. We also get tactical: what she looks for first in the financials, the operational metrics that matter most, and why agencies without documented processes are struggling the most with AI adoption. We wrap by talking about leading through uncertainty, avoiding burnout, and the simple practice Melanie uses to remind herself of the value she’s creating—plus her very 90s go-to karaoke song. Key Bytes • Clean financials and clear reporting are the true foundation of scalable ops • Workflow ownership matters — if it’s nobody’s job, it’s nobody’s job • Founders stay bottlenecks when leadership has no autonomy or scorecards • Agencies with documented systems adopt AI faster (and with fewer messes) • Strong leadership = trust, clarity, and shared problem-solving • Self-care and boundaries are essential for sustainable agency ownership Chapters 00:01 Intro and how Melanie rebuilt WeConsult after kids and a cross-country move 02:48 Stepping away from client work, losing momentum, and clawing back into a changed industry 05:36 Why Melanie now stays high-level and pushes implementation to internal teams and automation 07:42 Founders as bottlenecks and what a truly strong leadership team looks like 11:15 Ego, scale, and the operational shifts required for owners to get out of the way 15:36 Where Melanie starts operationally: financials, workflows, and clear ownership 18:07 The agency financial metrics that actually matter (profitability, cash, utilization, and more) 22:03 Why documented systems are the key to successful AI adoption (and how messy it gets without them) 26:00 Leading through uncertainty, rebuilding a business, and protecting your own wellbeing 28:38 AI note-takers, imposter syndrome, and Melanie’s “value” practice 31:36 Melanie’s 90s karaoke pick and where to learn more about WeConsult Melanie Chandruang is the Founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most. Connect with Melanie on their website.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Jordan Snider, Token Creative In episode 138, I sit down with Jordan Snider, co-founder and CTO of Token Creative Services, to break down the real impact of integrating Ignition App into their agency operations. Jordan shares how Token went from scattered proposals, manual invoices, and nearly $40k in aging AR to a streamlined, single-system workflow that clients actually appreciated. We dig into the operational before/after: centralized proposals and agreements, automated billing, faster close rates, clearer scope definition, easier upsells and renewals, and the elimination of unbilled “mystery hours.” Jordan also talks about forecasting clarity — and why dashboards that tie proposals, renewals, and revenue projections together are a game changer for decision-making. This episode is a grounded look at what happens when an agency stops tolerating a duct-taped sales and billing process and finally upgrades the operational spine of the business. Key Bytes • Token’s breaking point was nearly $40k in aging AR — a clear sign the proposal and billing process was broken. • Clients were confused by multiple proposal versions, scattered contracts, and manual payments; consolidating everything through Ignition simplified the entire client experience. • The biggest financial lift came from capturing previously unbilled variable hours and out-of-scope work. • Automated reminders and stored payment methods dramatically reduced AR and manual follow-up. • Forecasting became easier with visible open proposals, renewal pipelines, and year-over-year revenue projections. • Simplifying the tech stack cut both software cost and constant integration maintenance. • Ignition enabled Token to shift from hourly pricing to value-driven retainers because operations finally supported it. • Jordan’s advice: delaying this overhaul guarantees regret — proactively fixing it avoids the forced crisis moment. Chapters 00:00 Intro and why Token’s Ignition story matters 02:05 Token’s early days and “brute force” agency ops 03:10 The $40k AR wake-up call 05:10 What was broken in their proposal + onboarding workflow 06:55 Client reactions after switching to Ignition 07:50 Close rates, renewals, and handling scope creep 09:40 Capturing unbilled work and shrinking AR 11:55 Forecasting and metrics that changed decision-making 14:00 Simplifying the tech stack and ditching integrations 16:40 How clarity improved both scope and service delivery 23:40 Productizing services and shifting to retainers 25:05 Jordan’s advice for agencies resisting the overhaul 26:50 Rapid fire and wrap-up Jordan Snider is the Co-Founder and CTOof Token Creative Services, a full-service digital marketing and creative agency based in Kitchener-Waterloo. With a background in full-stack software engineering, Jordan bridges the gap between technical development and creative marketing. He has contributed personal reflections to platforms supporting victims of family violence, discussing the unique stressors faced by newcomers and the importance of community support systems. His work reflects a blend of technical precision and a commitment to social impact, aligning with Token Creative’s mission to support businesses making positive environmental or social changes. Connect with Jordan on their website, or learn more about Ignition here.

Featuring: Jennifer Spire, Preston Spire In episode 137, I sit down with Jennifer Spire, Partner and CEO of Preston Spire — a 75-year-old agency that’s somehow still pushing boundaries while many newer shops flame out. Jennifer shares how she modernized a legacy company without losing the cultural DNA that kept it alive for three-quarters of a century. We get into leadership transitions, building a values-driven agency, navigating generational shifts in talent, and how she’s shaping the next era of a Midwest powerhouse. Key Bytes • The hidden advantages legacy agencies have but often ignore • Why values act as a competitive moat — but only if they’re enforced • How Jennifer leads change without blowing up culture • The reality of modernizing 75-year-old processes • Where agencies underestimate the work of staying relevant Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:20 What it means to run a 75-year-old agency today 05:05 How Jennifer modernized Preston Spier without breaking it 09:40 The cultural DNA that actually drives retention 13:55 Why “values” only matter when leaders enforce them 17:48 Leadership evolution: from partner to CEO 21:30 What younger talent expects from an established shop 25:18 Staying relevant in a fast-changing industry 29:55 How Preston Spire balances legacy and innovation 33:42 Advice Jennifer wishes she had earlier 38:10 Closing thoughts Jennifer Spire is partner and CEO at Preston Spire, an Ad Age Best Place to Work and Midwest Small Agency of the Year. She is an accomplished agency leader with over 25 years of experience in both consumer and B2B marketing for just about every industry out there. At Preston Spire, Jennifer has played the leading role in reshaping the framework that defines the agency, focused on a strong vision, values and purpose. She has been a speaker at dozens of local and national conferences, has authored articles and thought pieces on various marketing subjects, and has been a board member of several nonprofit organizations. Jennifer was an east coast native before calling Minneapolis home. She was an NCGA gymnast and a gymnastics coach, who also had advertising in her blood, thanks to her grandfather being one of the founding fathers of Madison Avenue. Contact Jennifer on LinkedIn or the Preston Spire website.

Featuring: JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital In episode 136, I sit down with JP Holecka, founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple teams through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how digital agencies deliver value. We talk about what it really takes to evolve your agency for the AI era, how to navigate the culture shift that comes with automation, and why embracing AI is less about replacing people and more about amplifying what they’re capable of. KEY BYTES • AI isn’t replacing creativity—it’s amplifying it • True transformation starts with changing workflows, not job titles • The most successful AI rollouts start with internal adoption before client delivery • Leadership has to model curiosity and experimentation • Agencies that treat AI as a tool, not a threat, are finding their competitive edge SHOW REFERENCES Access JP's AI Miro Board referenced in the episode here. PW: cleardigital CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 02:01 JP’s background and the evolution of Power Shifter 06:32 The first AI experiments that changed everything 10:45 Getting team buy-in and overcoming initial skepticism 14:58 Building processes around AI rather than forcing it in |20:10 Human creativity in the age of automation 25:36 How AI has changed client expectations 31:12 Leadership lessons from scaling an AI-driven agency 36:45 The next frontier of digital work 40:30 JP’s advice for agency founders starting their AI journey 43:00 Rapid Fire Questions JP Holecka is the founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple agencies through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how teams collaborate with generative tools. Contact JP on the PowerShifter website or on LinkedIn.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Drew McLellan, AMI In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership. In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around. Key Bytes • The three things only the owner can and should do • Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership • Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you • How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job • The difference between running an agency and owning a business • What makes an agency truly “sellable” • Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds • How to get your time back without losing control Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background 04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner 09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is 14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership 20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you 26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation 31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability 38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you 44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession 49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group, in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency. He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel. AMI serves thousands of small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media, and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in such a volatile business, and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership. AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers: Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums) Private coaching/consulting for agency owners Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.” He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world. Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World, and MAICON and is often cited in agency-centric content for his expertise in the industry. When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family, and following his beloved Dodgers. Learn more about Drew and AMI on their website.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!   Featuring: Maiya Holliday, Mangrove In episode 131, I sit down with Maiya Holliday, founder and CEO of Mangrove Web Development, a Certified B Corp agency that’s been building websites for change-makers since 2009. Maiya shares her evolution from self-taught coder to agency leader, how she built Mangrove into a values-driven, fully remote team long before it was trendy, and why B Corp certification serves as an operating system rather than a marketing badge. We dive into the realities of serving nonprofits and purpose-led organizations, how to balance mission and margin, and how AI is reshaping collaboration between designers and developers. Maiya’s insights are both grounding and inspiring for anyone building a business around impact and intention. Key Bytes • B Corp certification can provide structure for how an agency operates—not just a label to display. • Nonprofit clients aren’t “low budget” if you help them tie digital to their mission, revenue, and reach. • AI is changing agency workflows fast, but curiosity, ethics, and experimentation keep it human. • Merging two purpose-driven teams isn’t about scale—it’s about shared values and vision. • Mangrove’s evolution shows that you can stay small, focused, and deeply impactful. Chapters 00:00 Intro: From coder to CEO 01:00 The origin story of Mangrove Web 03:30 Becoming a Certified B Corp 06:00 Lessons from the certification process 09:00 Staying accountable to B Corp principles 11:00 How competition has evolved in the B Corp space 14:30 Why Mangrove focuses on nonprofits & foundations 17:30 Pricing and positioning in the nonprofit world 20:00 The role of AI in Mangrove’s workflow 23:00 How design and dev are converging 27:30 Internal AI tooling vs. client-facing tools 30:00 Building trust as a strategic digital advisor 32:20 Rapid fire: remote work, creative parenting, and common myths 34:50 Closing thoughts Resources Mentioned https://www.ai4np.org/ Maiya Holliday, CEO and Founder of Mangrove Web Development, is a creative leader and collaborator who crafts digital solutions to augment the impact of changemakers. She is a self-taught coder with over a decade of hands-on experience. Maiya aligns folks toward actionable goals that help articulate and communicate their organization’s purpose and impact on the web, with people, planet, purpose, and equity at the core. She has led over 200 website projects for changemakers and purpose-driven organizations. Maiya led Mangrove to become a Certified B Corp in 2016 and has since championed the cause of socially and environmentally conscious businesses, deepening their impact. She values working alongside a diverse team of talented people who are passionate about what they do. A Bay Area native, Maiya now lives in the mountains of Truckee, CA, with her husband Shaun and little humans Terner and Miles. You might also find her in Oakland or Australia, where she tends to show up on a regular basis. Contact Maiya on LinkedIn, the company's LinkedIn page, or their website.

Featuring: Peter Lang, Digital Agency Business In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making. Key Bytes • M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers. • Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation. • AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it. • Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions. • You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA. • Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive. Chapters 00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro 01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue 03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID 06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens 09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete 13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers 17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027 22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity” 24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition 27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com) Resources Mentioned • Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective) • GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio) • digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book) Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range. Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work. Contact Peter on LinkedIn or his website.

Featuring: Natasha Golinsky, On Purpose Projects In episode 129, I talk with Natasha Golinski, founder of On Purpose Projects, a custom web and e-commerce dev agency. Natasha is a three-time Canada Women of Influence nominee, a mom of three, and a breast cancer survivor—and she’s built her business around the belief that mindset is everything. We dig into how she went from “accidental agency owner” to leading a zero-meeting, all-contractor team for over a decade, and why journaling, EFT (tapping), and surrounding yourself with the right people are critical to surviving the entrepreneurial rollercoaster. Natasha also shares how a cancer diagnosis forced her to hire ops support—and ultimately led to one of her agency’s biggest months ever. This episode is a masterclass in grit, leadership, and the mental game of entrepreneurship. Key Bytes • Mindset is the job. Natasha starts most days with journaling and EFT to reset anxiety and focus. • Zero meetings, high loyalty. A culture of respect, gratitude, and no drama keeps her contractor team thriving. • Protect your people. Leadership means absorbing the stress and passing the praise. • Say no early. Guardrails in discovery protect the team from toxic clients. • Crisis as catalyst. Cancer forced Natasha to let go of ops—and it unlocked growth. • Community matters. No one is self-made—surround yourself with peers who lift you up. • Focus sharpens delivery. On Purpose Projects does dev only—like a food truck that just serves crepes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome & Natasha’s background 02:12 Accidental agency beginnings 04:45 Mindset, marketing, and money: her founder lane 07:30 Morning pages & EFT as daily reset tools 11:05 Cancer diagnosis, hiring ops, and a breakthrough month 15:20 Building loyalty in a zero-meeting contractor culture 20:22 Client red flags & protecting your team 23:50 Why no one is self-made: the role of community 26:30 Rapid-fire fun: karaoke, first impressions, food truck metaphor 28:55 Closing thoughts Natasha Golinsky is the founder of an award-winning web development and ecommerce agency, a three-time nominee for the Canada Women of Influence® Award, and a tireless champion of female agency owners. Natasha’s also a mom of three and a breast cancer survivor who brings grit, heart, and a deep sense of purpose to everything she does. I’m thrilled to dig into her journey, her mission, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Natasha, welcome to the show. Award-winning web development & ecommerce agency founder | Champion & connector of female agency owners | 3x nominee Canada Women of Influence® Award | Breast Cancer Butt-Kicker | Mom x 3 Contact Natasha on their website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Logan Lyles, DemandShift In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline. We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls. If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue. Key Bytes • Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything. • He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step. • We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x. • We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.| • We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building. • Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack. • He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing. Chapters 00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift 01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life 03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders 06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore 07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it 09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x 12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy 15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines 19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles 23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics 27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing 27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co) Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024. Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice. Contact Logan on his website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Kelly Schuknecht, Two Mile High Marketing In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients. Key Bytes • The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency. • Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth. • Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones. • Visibility means showing up where your audience already is. • Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof. • Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence. • Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content. • Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work. • In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building. Chapters 00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High” 03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency 06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO” 09:55 The challenge and power of niching down 13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust 16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework 19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking 24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations 26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead. Connect with Kelly on their company website, personal website, or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Meeky Hwang, Ndevr In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech. We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs. Key Bytes • Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency. • She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps. • Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient. • She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress. • As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.” • She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier. • Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients. • Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang 03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder 07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation 11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media 12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms 15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress 18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships 23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor 25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs 27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals. Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders. Contact Meeky on their website.

Featuring: Dolores G Hirschmann, Masters in Clarity In episode 125, I sit down with Dolores Hirschmann, investor, strategist, and founder of Masters in Clarity. Dolores has built, scaled, and sold businesses—including one to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone after growing it to eight figures. A former TEDx organizer, she now helps service professionals and thought leaders clarify their message, craft high-converting signature talks, and get booked on stages that drive real business results. We explore her journey from early internet marketing in Argentina to launching an outbound speaker agency, and she shares her framework for creating talks that convert, practical tips for pitching event organizers, and why thought leadership is still one of the most powerful growth levers for agencies. Key Bytes • Thought leadership isn’t about celebrity—it’s about clarity and consistency • A great talk is less about what you say and more about what your audience walks away with • Don’t pitch event organizers with long bios—open the door with a simple yes/no question • The best call-to-action from stage isn’t a free consultation, it’s a free resource tied to your talk • A signature talk framework can be applied to any presentation—keynote, workshop, or boardroom update • Speaking is one of the most scalable ways to build trust, demonstrate expertise, and generate new business Chapters 00:00 Welcome and introduction to Dolores Hirschmann 01:18 Early internet marketing and human-to-human relationships 04:58 Moving to the U.S. and pioneering online learning platforms 06:26 From serial entrepreneur to coach and strategist 08:19 Organizing TEDx and developing the signature talk framework 11:26 Building and scaling a speaker agency to $20M+ 14:29 Why agencies need to lean into speaking and thought leadership 15:44 Practical steps to land more speaking opportunities 20:07 The seven steps of a high-converting talk 23:24 How to craft calls-to-action that drive leads from stage 25:23 Using QR codes and free resources to capture audience interest 26:25 Masters in Clarity workshops and software for speakers 27:02 Rapid fire: tap dancing, gut instincts, and buying businesses Dolores Hirschmann is an investor, strategist, speaker, and founder of Masters in Clarity, a strategy and business coaching firm. She helps service professionals grow their businesses and establish thought leadership. A former TEDx organizer, she specializes in positioning experts, authors, consultants, and coaches for success. Dolores recently sold a company to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone, supporting its growth to multiple 8 figures in four years. She built a software platform to help speakers get placed on stages and advises businesses on preparing for profitable exits. Masters in Clarity provides fractional Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) services to help companies design and execute marketing initiatives and set up automated marketing systems. As an investor, Dolores acquires and scales small businesses, ensuring their legacy and long-term success. Connect with Dolores on their website.

Featuring: Joe Rojas, Start Grow Manage In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live. Key Bytes • Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience • The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation • Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them • Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones • Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services Chapters 00:00 Welcome and guest intro 01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs 03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages 05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive 06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset 08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom 12:20 Building core values that drive the business 16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit 21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today 24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t 26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems 28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results 30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business. Connect with Joe on their website.

Featuring: Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business. Key Bytes • Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers • Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development • Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise • AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs • Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy • Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills 02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers 04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth 08:58 Traits of successful account managers 11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world 13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers 18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients 20:38 Co-creating account growth targets 22:55 Charging for account management services 24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively? 28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts. Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company. Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive. She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry. Connect with Jenny on their website.

Featuring: Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems. Key Bytes • Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability. • Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits. • Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals. • Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles. • Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation. • Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services. • Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption. • Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change. Chapters 00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith 02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges 04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems 06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress 08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability 11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment 14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies 17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration 24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery 28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work. Contact Shawn on Forge and Smith or Refoundry.

Featuring: Greg Bellinger, White Rabbit In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies. We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose. Key Bytes • Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it • He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently • Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine • He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified • Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool • He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy • He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture • Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start Chapters 00:00 Welcome and guest intro 01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy 02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management 06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct 07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity 10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S. 12:00 Uniting culture across three countries 14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products 16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management 19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship 25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts. Contact Greg on the White Rabbit website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Jessica Malnik In episode 119, I sit down with Jessica Malnik, a B2B messaging strategist who’s helped over 75 founders and lean marketing teams craft content that actually gets read—and drives results. We talk about the risks of over-commoditized content in the age of AI and why a flood of “cheap” output isn’t a strategy. Jessica walks me through her signature framework, the Marketing MOAT, which focuses on Messaging, Distribution, and Content Efficiency. She also shares practical, low-lift ways agencies can build content machines, maximize existing assets, and stay consistent without burning out. We even talk about content imposter syndrome, the curse of knowledge, and why you don’t have to be totally unique—you just need to show up as yourself. If you’ve ever struggled with creating content that converts (and keeps converting), this episode is packed with clarity, systems, and smart takes that’ll help you raise your signal-to-noise ratio. Key Bytes • Messaging without a unique perspective leads to content that gets ignored • AI-only content creation can dilute your brand and commoditize your services • Her “Marketing MOAT” framework focuses on messaging, distribution, and content efficiency • Distribution must be built into strategy from the beginning, not as an afterthought • Agencies should reuse and repurpose evergreen content instead of always creating new • Consistency (3x/week on LinkedIn) matters more than frequency spikes • Authenticity in content doesn’t mean oversharing—it means resonance • Set goals based on team size, budget, and business stage, then reverse engineer your strategy Chapters 00:01 Welcome and intro to Jessica Malnik 01:46 Common agency messaging mistakes 03:26 Why AI-only content is risky for agencies 05:14 Jessica’s Marketing MOAT framework explained 07:21 How to develop “spiky” messaging and content positioning 10:34 Distribution strategy: where your audience actually is 14:04 Own your content—don’t rely only on social algorithms 15:09 Content efficiency and repurposing systems 19:00 Best practices for publishing frequency 21:16 Balancing personal and professional content 22:28 Reverse engineering content strategy based on goals 23:41 Rapid Fire Q&A with Jessica Jessica Malnik has helped over 75 B2B founders and lean marketing teams fix their positioning and craft messaging people actually read and respond to. She’s spoken at half a dozen in-person conferences in the U.S., Australia, and Thailand, as well as dozens of virtual webinars, workshops, and podcast guest appearances. She’s also been featured in WSJ, The Next Web, MicroConf, Wynter, SXSW, and MSN UK, among many others. Contact Jessica on their website or join their newsletter.

Featuring: Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, Palmer Advisors In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon. We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples. Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want. Key Bytes • Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses. • The agency market is evolving with new deal structures. • Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions. • Founders should not exit at their peak performance. • Timing is key when going to market for an exit. • Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales. • Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers. • Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners. • Deal structures can be creative and flexible. • The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites 01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors 03:35 Reflections on the First Year 05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics 09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit 13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement 16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A 19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology 23:19 Future Trends in M&A 25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation 28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like. Contact Ben and Clara on LinkedIn or on the Palmer Advisors website.