“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, executive coach Nathan Tanner reveals the real economics of coaching: transparent revenue breakdowns, pricing strategy, and the path from corporate burnout to independent practice. Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NATHAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNathan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:41) The breakdown story (crying on floor)(05:49) “Weekend warriors” critique(09:00) Fire your coach every year?(10:03) Sponsor: Metaview(12:47) $240K → $335K revenue reveal(14:20) First full year: $335K breakdown(19:14) “Hire Nathan or do nothing” strategy(22:16) Burning the boats philosophy This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Chris Yeh discusses infinite learning, staying relevant through younger generations, Blitzscaling adaptability principles, assessing founders through shared experiences, and negotiating equity by establishing fair processes before debating numbers.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINChris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisyeh/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: Infinite Learning & Blitzscaling Adaptability(01:00) The Source of Energy, Public Speaking & Performance Background(02:00) The Power of Unlearning & Staying Relevant(04:08) Blitzscaling: Hiring for Adaptability & Resilience(07:12) Picking Companies: Thinking Like an Investor(09:08) Assessing Founders: The Travel & Summer Camp Effect(10:14) Sponsor: Metaview(11:36) Negotiating Founder Shares & Equity Splits(17:00) Compensation Philosophy & The Numbers Hack(19:13) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

One of our biggest episodes of this past year was with Zapier’s CPO Brandon Sammut, ICYMI or as a refresher, in this essetial Heretics 101 feature, he demonstrates AI agents transforming HR workflows: from automating bar raiser interview prep to performance evidence collection, while explaining their four-level AI fluency framework.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:26) Why AI Fluency is Required for 100% of New Hires(02:00) The 4-Level AI Fluency Rubric: Capable to Transformational(03:38) Demo 1: Bar Raiser Interview Agent(04:33) 730 Employees, 10 VPs - Job Level Discipline(05:47) Agent Explains WHY It Chose Each Question(06:27) The Spectrum of AI Interview Approaches(08:18) Demo 2: Performance Review Evidence Collection(09:21) The Blob Notes Emoji: Triggering Evidence Collection(10:33) Don’t Let Perfect Be the Enemy of Good(11:21) Future Vision: AI Coach Idling in Slack(13:25) “It’s Like Steroids” - Not AI Overlords Taking Over(13:51) Sponsor: Metaview(15:41) Live Demo: Blob Notes in Action(18:13) Employee Choice vs Mandates: Marketing Over Requirements(19:27) Leadership Doing Real Work - Few Companies Have Real Use Cases(21:00) Demo 3: One-on-One Meeting Coach (Most Sophisticated Build)(23:20) Calculating Talk-to-Listen Ratios(24:40) Scaling HR Business Partners - Every Company’s Manager Problem(26:07) Implementation Choices: On-Demand vs Required(27:35) Transparency: What Data? Where Stored? Who Sees It?(28:44) The Iron Man Suit vs AI Overlords(28:56) Where to Find Brandon - LinkedIn(29:12) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former Meta HR leader Cynthia Bazlamit (Baz) Shrauner talks about demoting herself twice for fulfillment over title. She also describes Facebook’s pandemic hiring frenzy that ballooned teams 10x, the subsequent brutal layoffs, and the effect of DEI resource groups on the company.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH BAZ, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBaz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:17) Intro(01:06) The First Demotion Story: Getting Demoted at Facebook(05:17) The Second Demotion: Hiring Christine Ellis & Doing It Again(10:00) “Comparison is the Thief of Joy” - The Ego Struggle(11:00) Sponsor: Metaview(12:59) Meta’s Pandemic Hiring Spree: “We Were Sloppy”(15:44) The Layoffs: Three Waves of RIFs, 8,000+ Cuts(19:42) DEI & Resource Groups: From Fun to Corporate Chaos(24:00) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Bryan Power, who recently left Nextdoor after seven years, discusses his viral article on quitting properly, why exits define careers, manager failures, and the Growth by Design-Cursor acquisition’s implications.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction & Power Hour Returns(00:55) Bryan’s Viral “How to Quit” Article(04:00) Why Your Exit Becomes Your Entire Story(06:00) Why Companies Don’t Teach Employees How to Leave(09:00) The Loyalty Expectation Problem(12:27) Sponsor: Metaview(14:38) How Managers Screw Up Exits(21:57) No Long Goodbyes: The Best Timing Advice(24:13) What to Do When Someone Resigns(27:30) Maintaining Relationships After You Leave(29:26) Growth by Design Acquired by Cursor(36:33) The State of the Recruiting Market(40:00) AI Native Skills & The Future of Entry Level Hiring(46:49) Cringey Corporate Lingo Game(50:55) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Couchbase CPO Fidelma Butler talks about modern L&D: building contextual leadership frameworks, meeting employees in workflows, activating peer teaching, and addressing career development’s promotion fixation.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:16) Intro(01:21) Building L&D from Scratch at Couchbase(02:45) Defining Good Leadership: The Three-Way Framework(05:04) Meeting People Where They Are: Escaping Theoretical Land(06:06) When Survey Results Disagree with CEO Priorities(07:35) Embedding L&D in the Fairway of the Job(08:19) Leaders Teaching Leaders: Why It Works(11:36) Coaching for Senior Leaders: Addressing the Intangibles(13:35) Hiring for Modern L&D: New Skills Required(14:25) The Career Development Problem: Everyone Wants It, Nobody Does It(16:30) Why Career Ladders Become Checkbox Exercises(19:01) The Ladders Dilemma and Being Transparent with Employees(20:10) Treating Employees Like Adults(20:59) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former co-founder and executive coach Adam Weber examines power dynamics and identity transformation following Amplify’s acquisition by 15Five, revealing insights on leadership evolution and maintaining authentic culture through organizational integration.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:57) Post-Acquisition Power Dynamics: The Humbling Moment(03:00) HR’s Inflection Point: More Responsibility, Same Resources(05:12) Top 5% HR Leaders: Show Courage and Speak the Language of Business(06:59) What ‘Understanding the Business’ Really Means(08:15) The Reality Check: HR’s Impossible Workload(10:25) Sponsor: Metaview(11:47) The Troubling Trend: AI Up, Leadership Development Down(13:50) The Future of Management: NVIDIA’s Model and Investing in ICs(18:18) Ruthless Experimentation and the Death of Best Practices(20:00) Building Credibility: Sharing Both Wins and Losses This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Disruptive HR founder Lucy Adams dissects HR’s fundamental trust problem: why designing policies around your worst employees destroys organizational performance, and how to reimagine the business partner role.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(04:15) HR’s Fundamental Trust Problem & Designing for the Minority(08:30) Sponsor: Metaview(09:00) The Opportunity Cost of Distrust(12:00) The HRBP Role: Why It’s Broken & How to Fix It(15:30) What HR Leaders Are Talking About: DEI, AI & Merit(19:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli debate equity compensation philosophy: whether companies should extend stock options to all employees or reserve them for senior roles, weighing moral imperatives against investor dilution concerns and implementation complexity.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:07) Question about stock options for all employees(01:48) Carta’s philosophy on making everyone an owner(03:32) Moral case for giving equity to everyone(05:07) Story about Carta’s employee refresh and Fred Wilson(06:21) Challenge of educating employees on equity(08:28) Pendo’s approach to equity education and round tables(09:19) Setting expectations with $0 default value(10:08) Sponsor - Metaview(11:29) Cost of labor adjustments for equity across locations(13:00) Administrative challenges of geo-based equity adjustments(14:16) Employee communication and comparison issues(16:10) Board tension over equity dilution decisions(17:28) Attracting great talent requires competitive compensation(18:06) Moral case and taxes of giving equity(19:00) Importance of working with equity experts(19:46) Closing thoughts on geo strategy and communication(21:34) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli tackle a question on navigating layoffs, revealing hard-won lessons from cutting deep, treating people humanely, and avoiding rookie RIF mistakes.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(03:22) Dear Heretics: What to Know Before Your First RIF(05:10) The Carta Layoff Playbook: Cut Deep, Stay Humane, Do It Once(09:19) Sponsor: Metaview(10:41) Change Management: Why Before and After Matter Most(15:00) Opt-In Severance and Tucking In Top Performers(19:00) Designing for Trust Over Fear(22:04) Leadership Accountability and the Golden Rule(24:11) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dissect a viral LinkedIn post from an ex-Amazon director, exploring how inflated tech worker expectations clash with today’s brutal job market realities.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/__For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:19) What Ex-Amazon Talent Deserves(01:22) A Post Full of Assumptions(02:41) The X Response: Out of Touch and Ego-Driven(03:11) Sponsor: Metaview(03:34) The Remote Work Reality: That Era Is Over(04:39) The ChatGPT Turning Point: When Employment Fell Off a Cliff(06:01) Why This LinkedIn Post Won’t Help Her Job Search(06:29) The Coming Social Unrest and Displaced Tech Workers(07:40) The Grinding Mindset(09:09) When the Rules Changed Overnight(10:31) The FAANG Halo Effect Is Dead(11:55) The Quality of Life Fork: Ejecting from Tech(13:00) Re-Underwriting Your Career in the New Reality(14:20) Expectations Minus Reality Equals Happiness(14:39) Hedging Your Bets: Diversify Before It’s Too Late(15:52:) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan interview Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and 8-year Tesla veteran, about building HR’s strategic authority through data analytics, his automate-augment-human AI framework, and why he recruits economists and data scientists alongside traditional HR professionals.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH ARNNON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINArnnon: linkedin.com/in/arnnongeshuriNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(0:00) Intro(1:12) Three Key Lessons from Working with Elon Musk at Tesla(3:36) Why Snowflake: Reinventing the People Function(4:33) The Three-Pronged AI Framework: Automate, Augment, Human-Only(12:02) Sponsor: Metaview(19:45) Data Analytics as the Backbone of HR(24:00) Building the Winning HR Team Portfolio(27:08) Speed Through Imperfection: Fast Pilots and Iteration(29:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan have a candid discussion with Silicon Valley operator Molly Graham on founder depression, imposter syndrome, executive team dynamics, and building business-first people operations at scaling companies.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH MOLLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMolly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mograham/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Glue Club: https://www.glueclub.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:43) Origin of “Giving Away Your Legos”(02:28) Emotions at Work(02:49) Meet Bob the Monster(04:15) Founder Depression Reality(06:27) The Emptiness of Startups(08:00) Life as a Barter Economy(09:14) “I Can’t Do Math” - Professional Moron Strategy(12:00) Growth Solves All Problems(13:00) When Leaders Hate Each Other(14:20) 50% Executive Hiring Success Rate(17:00) 18-Month Executive Tenure(18:34) Business First, Not Happiness(21:00) Era of Excess Is Over(21:51) Best Interview Question(22:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, we’re excited to cross post a conversation from Metaview’s 10x Recruiting Podcast featuring Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recuiting Operations of Vercel, on using AI to analyze top interviewers’ transcripts, extracting their unconscious patterns and building tools that scale interviewing excellence.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH VIET, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINViet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vietnguyen6/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Vercel: https://vercel.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Progress Over Perfection(01:00) Why Throwing Messy Data at AI Actually Works(01:37) The Three-Hour Experiment That Changed Everything(02:38) Create Leverage Where Possible(03:30) Do Nothing vs. Do Something: The Real Choice(04:00) Sponsor: Metaview(04:14) Interview Begins: Meet Viet Nguyen(04:51) The Rejection That Led to Friendship(05:26) The Five-Year Tour of Duty in Recruiting Ops(06:37) From Zero Coding Skills to Building AI Tools(08:00) The Gaspar Effect: Decoding Your Best Interviewer(10:30) What Makes a Great Interviewer Great?(13:45) Building the Automated Back-Channel Reference Tool(17:20) The RAG Database That Knows Everyone(20:00) When AI Says “No Connections Found” (And Why That’s Okay)(23:15) The Webhook That Keeps Your Database Fresh(26:51) Perfect Is the Enemy of Progress(28:00) “Anybody Can Cook” - The Non-Technical Builder’s Manifesto(28:27) Automating Interview Debriefs: The Next Frontier(29:28) Real-Time Debrief Summaries: The Dream State(30:04) Where to Find Viet(30:33) Community Show and Tell: The Vision(31:15) We’re All Stupid Together (And That’s the Point)(32:05) Friday Night Recruiting Projects (32:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

 This episode with Jason James from Tezi briefly vanished from Spotify. Don’t ask us why. But it’s too good to not share again. So here’s Jason unpacking the future of recruiting. Please enjoy.Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and why AI bias audits set a higher standard than humans ever could.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH JASON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasontezi/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Tezi: https://tezi.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:55) Meet Max: The AI Agent Replacing Recruiting Busywork(03:16) AI Bias vs Human Bias: Which Is Fairer?(06:08) Human-in-the-Loop: AI Recommends, Humans Decide(07:34) AI Interviews at Top of Funnel: What Works, What Doesn’t(11:00) Standing Out in a Crowded AI Recruiting Market(14:26) Sponsors: Ethena & Metaview(17:18) “RCs and Sourcers, Find Something Else”(20:30) The New Grad Opportunity: Alpha in a Tough Market(22:23) “Riding the Elevator Up”: The Resume Pedigree Problem(24:26) How to Spot Resume Riders vs Real Contributors(26:00) 100-Hour Weeks and the 9-9-6 Culture Debate(30:00) “The Best Culture Is Growth”(31:00) Tezi’s Culture: Committed to Calm, Team of Adults(34:00) What’s Next for Tezi?(34:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest AI Corner, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos joins Kelli and Nolan to discuss the “Trough of Disillusionment” in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows. Watch as Siadhal demonstrates Metaview’s AI sourcing, showcasing its intuitive, agent-based approach that moves beyond traditional Boolean methods.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Metaview:https://www.metaview.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:35) Why Metaview Built AI Sourcing(02:20) The Vision: Humans and AI Working Together(03:09) Technical Breakthrough: Browser Use and Computer Use(04:41) Beta to GA Launch Story(05:01) Promptless Sourcing Feature(06:36) Sponsor: Metaview(07:58) Demo(26:38) Data Sources and LinkedIn Compliance(28:01) Future: ATS Integration and Multi-Database Search(30:13) What’s Coming Next for Metaview(31:29) Product Development Philosophy(32:04) How to Try Metaview Sourcing(32:33) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan analyze why traditional bonus programs fail at early-stage companies, advocating for flexible sprint incentives and spot bonuses over rigid annual structures that create organizational debt.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Bonus Program Question(01:04) The Cyclical Wave & Sales Incentives(01:42) Why Early-Stage Companies Struggle(02:46) The Coin-Operating Problem(03:26) The 96% Problem: Legacy & Recruiting Pressure(04:34) You Can’t Put the Toothpaste Back(05:30) Equity Over Bonuses(06:09) Inconsistent Application Across Teams(06:43) Walking It Back Is Brutal(08:06) Sponsor: Metaview(09:28) Technical Debt vs People Debt(11:10) Second Order Consequences(12:31) MBOs Are a Fable(12:53) The Solution: Sprint Incentives(14:04) Surprise and Delight: Spot Bonuses(15:08) Discretionary Budgets & Agility(15:54) Final Thoughts: Avoid People Debt(15:59) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan debate radical workplace transparency: eliminating private Slack messages. They explore tensions between cultural openness, practical communication needs, and effective use of asynchronous tools.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The “No Private DMs” Rule(01:04) First Reactions: How This Would Actually Work(01:54) The Case for Transparency: Underground Slack Channels Are Toxic(02:35) The Reality Check: Leaders Still Need Private Conversations(03:42) Is Radical Transparency Just Performance Art?(04:20) The Productivity Problem: Slack Surfing vs Getting Work Done(05:11) Creating a “How We Slack” Document with Clear Rules(06:15) Using Public Channels to Develop Holistic Leaders(07:13) The Jensen Huang Model: Why He Doesn’t Do One-on-Ones(08:12) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(11:34) Hyper-Transparency from the CEO Builds Trust(12:31) It All Comes Down to Judgment(13:11) The Audio Message Revolution: Why Voice Beats Typing(15:20) Good vs Bad Audio Messages: It’s About Sender Judgment(16:15) The 10x Pace: Why Traditional Meeting Cadences Don’t Work Anymore(17:34) Final Thoughts: Experiment with Your Communication Style(17:46) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Sally Thornton, CEO and Founder of Forshay who offers a candid examination of fractional executive work, exploring trust barriers, adverse selection problems, pricing models, and why consulting acumen matters more than traditional executive experience.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SALLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSally: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallythornton/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Forshay: https://forshay.com/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:46) The Trust Barrier: Why Companies Resist Fractional Work(03:34) The TAM Debate and Market Dynamics Post-COVID(05:14) The Dirty Secret: There’s No Such Thing as Fractional Work(06:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(10:01) Who’s Buying and Why Finance Gets It(11:06) Let’s Talk Money: The 65/35 Structure and Market Rates(12:30) The Honeymoon Phase: Managing Boundaries and Expectations(14:44) How to Assess Fractional Executives: The 75% Rule(16:31) From Interim to Modular: How the Market Evolved(18:04) The Black Hole Question: Why Nobody’s Calling You Back(19:36) Network for Yourself: Nobody’s Managing Your Career But You(21:36) How to Sustain 15 Years: Running Experiments & Following Curiosity(22:31) Closing Thoughts: Agents for Executives Don’t Yet Exist(23:11) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga, revealing data-driven insights on building culture-first companies, balancing psychological safety with accountability, and prioritizing growth as engagement’s foundation.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDidier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Culture Amp: https://www.cultureamp.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:30) From Harry Potter to Building Culture Amp(02:16) What Is a Culture-First Company?(03:19) The Coherency Matrix: Trust vs. Mission Orientation(04:40) Growth: The One Thing That’s Never Changed(05:36) Leaders Matter More Than Managers (The Data)(07:09) Don’t Bother Convincing People Who Don’t Get It(08:02) How Structured Reviews Closed the Gender Gap(09:17) Sponsor: Ethena | Metaview(12:39) Data Is Just the Start of Honest Conversations(13:28) Esther Perel: Leaders Don’t Know How to Say No(14:16) My Engagement Survey Mistake as CPO(15:32) Feedback Is Not a Gift, It’s a Workout(16:23) How We Run Culture Amp: Values and Growth(18:45) We Can’t Be Everything for Everyone(20:07) Storytelling: The Most Important Leadership Skill(22:07) Finding Your Authentic Narrative(23:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com