We're Not Marketers

For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles. Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see that close-lost column piling up on the CRM pipeline.But how can you take another responsibility on your to-do when you’re already swamped?Matthew Reeves, CEO and co-founder of GoldPan, runs a win-loss analysis agency. In this episode, he’s showing us:How to build rapport with sales teamsThe complexities of positioning and messagingWhy you need both wins and losses for good research. Why information overload kill sales. The nuanced value of churn analysis. Hear also the very unique take of Matthew on if product marketers are marketers, we can’t say we heard this one yet!Timespan:00:00 Welcome to We're Not Marketers00:19 Introducing Matthew Reeves, CEO of GoldPan01:37 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?02:49 The Evolution and Challenges of Marketing12:21 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis21:31 Building Rapport Between Product Marketers and Sales34:25 Sales Missteps and Buyer Uncertainty34:59 Understanding Product Assessment35:34 The Role of Risk and Values in Buying Decisions37:01 Challenges in Product Marketing37:48 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis38:39 Switching Costs and Product Marketing40:34 Effective Sales Messaging43:14 The Buyer-Seller Dynamic50:06 The Value of Churn Analysis54:29 Bad Sales Experiences01:01:33 Closing Thoughts and Future PlansShow Notes:Matthew’s LinkedInGoldpan websiteHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s positioning feels a little “mushy” or your product is getting compared to everyone under the sun, this episode is for you. April shares her no-nonsense approach to tightening up your message and teaching your CEO why positioning isn’t just some abstract marketing concept—it’s the foundation of your success. Whether you’re battling internal buy-in or figuring out how to stand out in a crowded market, April’s got the answers (plus a few hilarious takes on toilets and camping). Here’s what you’re missing, by not listening:Is your product positioning “mushy”? Learn why vague messaging is killing your pitch—and how to fix it.The secret weapon for startups: April’s advice on involving sales and product teams in positioning.Why “actionable insights” aren’t really actionable: How to cut the jargon and speak your customer's language.CEO thinks their product positioning is fine? April’s roadmap to making them see the problem—without calling their baby ugly.Positioning vs. features: Why selling value over features is your ultimate key to success.Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message01:05 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction01:39 April Dunford on Product Marketing03:25 The Role of Positioning in Startups09:17 Building Influence as a Product Marketer23:27 Fun and Games with April Dunford34:26 Discovering Catan: A Board Game Revelation35:00 Building Dreams: Choosing the Perfect Cottage Location36:10 Torture Chamber Round: Birds or Stars?38:42 The Cardinal Sins of Product Positioning43:33 Selling Platforms: Value Over Features01:00:17 The Art of Persuasive Writing in Marketing01:04:52 Career Advice for Product Marketers01:11:01 Engage with April Dunford: Books, Podcasts, and MoreResourcesApril Dunford LinkedInApril Dunford websiteApril Dunford’s Positioning Podcast Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone.In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers, Zach, Eric, and Gab dive into the realities of managing life as a Product Marketing Manager, whether you're in-house or fractional. From overwhelming work expectations to the struggle of balancing personal life, the team discusses how to protect your mental health while handling an always-on work culture. They share personal stories, tips like setting boundaries, removing work apps from phones, and practical advice on how to deal with burnout. If you're feeling the strain of managing your career, relationships, and self-care, this episode is a must-listen.Key takeaways include:Strategies to create separation between work and personal time (e.g., daily rituals, setting boundaries, Slack detox).Real-talk about burnout and why mental health shouldn’t be just a “corporate benefit.”Practical tips on saying “no” to unrealistic requests and protecting your productivity.How fractional PMMs handle the pressure of multiple clients while in-house PMMs navigate endless internal demands.Tune in to hear the team's perspectives on how to reclaim balance and stay sane as a PMM.Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message01:02 The Challenges of Being a Product Marketer02:22 In-House vs. Fractional Product Marketing04:45 Balancing Work and Personal Life07:41 Setting Boundaries and Mental Health22:02 Productivity Tips and Techniques30:50 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we sit down with the one and only Jeff Chase, Director of Brand and Product Marketing at Vitally.io, who drops a major hot take—product marketers aren’t marketers (wait, what?!). But Jeff doesn’t stop there. He believes PMMs are the future leaders of marketing, and he’s got the experience and insights to back it up.Tune in as we dive into the evolving role of product marketers in B2B SaaS. From positioning and messaging to why PMMs have the potential to become CMOs, Jeff shares his journey and unique approach to blending product and brand marketing. We also tackle the age-old question: how can PMMs build better relationships with their brand teams?Whether you're a PMM ready to shake up your organization or just curious about where this role is headed, this convo is one you don’t want to miss:PMMs vs. Marketers: Jeff’s surprising take on why product marketers aren’t really marketers.The Future CMO Pipeline: Why Jeff believes product marketers are primed to become the next generation of marketing leaders.The Art of Brand Storytelling: How product marketers can elevate their influence by mastering brand marketing collaboration.Hiring Hacks: Jeff’s refreshing approach to recruitment, and why he believes hiring managers have a deeper responsibility than you think.Copycats Beware: How to stay a step ahead of competitors who love to swipe your messaging.Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction and Host Intros00:56 Special Guest Introduction: Jeff02:02 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:35 The Future of Product Marketing08:55 Building Cross-Functional Relationships10:48 The Role of Brand Marketing14:30 Hiring and Leadership Insights36:21 Dealing with Competitors43:46 Conclusion and Sign-OffShow NotesJeff Chase LinkedIn ProfileHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this episode, Jarod Greene, CMO of Vivint, shares his journey from teaching middle school math to Gartner analyst to CMO today and offers actionable advice for PMMs struggling to gain recognition. Learn how to use research, co-create with sales, and communicate your value to drive impactful product marketing strategies in your workplace.When you let Jarod cook (#lethimcook) and you’re gonna get…How teaching 7th graders prepared Jarod to lead B2B marketing strategy—and why it’s still the hardest job he’s ever done.The “magician” role of product marketers: Why being a chameleon is the ultimate superpower in your company (and how to harness it).Co-create with sales? Yes, please. The surprising reason your best sales reps should help write your next piece of content.Forget the committee—Jarod’s trick to stop internal fights over messaging using the one thing no one can argue with: Data.“I had no idea what PMM was 10 years ago” – how Jarod went from confused to CMO and why it could be your career roadmap too.Content without context = chaos. Jarod’s formula for why great content flops (and how to make it land every time).How to manage up, down, and sideways: Jarod’s guide to becoming a leader before you even get the title.Time Stamps 00:00 We're Not Marketers (S3) - Jarod Greene01:00 Welcome to Season Three!01:46 Introducing Gerard Green03:01 From Teaching to Marketing05:15 The Role of Product Marketers07:15 Becoming a CMO18:03 Content with Context22:19 Co-Creating with Sales28:20 The Content Production Dilemma29:07 The Importance of Research in Marketing30:27 Primary vs. Secondary Research31:22 Leveraging Data for Decision Making39:43 Integrating AI in Marketing Strategies43:34 The Reality of Product Market Fit51:21 Upcoming Projects and EventsShow NotesJarod Greene LinkedIn ProfileUNXPCTD - Explore way AI is revolutionizing B2B Sales Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

There are many different flavors of product marketers, whether you’re in-house or fractional like our host, you need to be aware of your special sauce 😉The product marketing function is becoming more and more nuanced, so you need to know what you are good at and why these special skills matter with your expertise and work environment.Megan Pratt went from senior PMM to director of PMM and was one step away from a VP position before she decided to go full-time as a fractional PMM.Today, she’s coaching product marketers and helping companies as a fractional PMM. In this episode, we’re covering:Misconceptions we have about going fractionalHow to find your secret sauce as a PMMHow to educate prospects on product marketingLearn how to say no without saying noBuilding your pipeline as a consultantCommon gaps in product marketingSo join us, whether you’re a fractional, or in-house hire, and learn about a true expert on how to say no.Timespan:00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Banter01:14 Introducing Special Guest Megan Pratt06:09 The Value of Product Marketing21:26 Personal Insights and Career Growth26:25 Transition to Fractional Work26:31 Challenges and Misconceptions of Going Fractional30:48 Messaging Best Practices31:13 Clarifying Roles and Responsibilities32:23 Setting Boundaries in Freelancing33:42 The Importance of Saying No36:34 Building a Freelance Pipeline50:56 Common Gaps in Product Marketing59:42 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsShow Notes:Product Marketing HouseMegan’s LinkedInHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

After 29 episodes, we’re finally closing down our season 2 and we’re taking this opportunity to circle back on why PMMs are misunderstood today in B2B SaaS. Being misunderstood isn’t the problem, it’s the apathy from colleagues and management regarding our roles and responsibilities. But we should be proud of being misfits because it’s our uniqueness that can have a real impact on our jobs. All we need is more influence and less apathy. In this episode, we’re going back on why we started the pod, how we’re researching our market, find new episode topics, and a special way on how you can be on the pod for upcoming seasons: → The key takeaways from this season that every PMM should know → Our thoughts on the future of Product Marketing and what’s on the horizon → What is the misfit madness and how can you be a special guest Tune in for the last time of season 2, and enjoy a monthly break of not hearing us talk about product marketing 🙃Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timeline:00:17 - Meet Emma Stratton: Life Coach and Messaging Expert03:03 - Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?06:45 - Embracing the Misfit Identity in Product Marketing12:15 - Handling Messaging Challenges and CEO Fears21:05 - Transitioning to Entrepreneurship: When is the Right Time?26:50 - Work-Life Harmony: Balancing Energy Drainers and Energizers32:35 - Avoiding Company Politics and Aligning Teams38:15 - Real-life Example: Messaging for an Australian Data Company45:07 - Emma’s Upcoming Book: Make It Punchy47:10 - Torture Chamber Game: Cringey Marketing Terms55:00 - Final Thoughts and Staying Connected with Emma Show Notes:Emma's book: Make It Punchy: How to Write Simple Tech Messaging That Wins Hearts, Minds, and Markets (Pre-order now)Punchy messaging newsletterFollow Emma Stratton on LinkedInHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:01:36 PMM jobs and LinkedIn trends.03:00 Discussion about job application experiences and interview etiquette.05:00 Gab shares a story about a go-to-market assignment.08:00 Eric shares a story about interviewing with a competitor.12:00 Zach shares a story about a poor recruiting experience.16:00 Eric discusses a job that ended up being a bad fit.19:00 Discussion on hiring practices and candidate experiences.22:00 Importance of clear expectations and roles in hiring.24:00 The value of specific hiring criteria and trust in the hiring process.27:00 The benefits of private communities for job searching.30:00 Gab's experience with irrelevant job postings.33:00 Eric and Zach discuss the value of consulting and contracting as a career approach.36:00 Final thoughts on hiring practices and candidate experience.40:00 Additional anecdotes and reflections on job search experiences.45:00 Tips for navigating the PMM job market.50:00 Closing remarks and promotions for the newsletter and sponsors.52:00 Outro and end of episode. Show Notes: ⁠Inc Authority (LLC Formation)⁠⁠Exit Five Community⁠⁠Healthy Competition Community⁠Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps00:43 Introducing of Julien Sauvage01:57 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?06:41 The Role of Boldness in Marketing14:06 Event Branding Success at Clari17:17 The Einstein Smart Speaker Flop20:24 Reflecting on Dreamforce's Gimmicks22:38 The Importance of Data in Product Marketing24:43 Challenges and Realities of PMM30:31 The Role of Copywriting in PMM38:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell Show Notes :Julien’s LinkedInContent That Converts guide (by Devin Reed)Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps1:00: Introduction of Pat Wall5:00: Role of product marketers7:00: CI and product marketing8:30: Evolution of CI in Pat's career10:00: Building a CI program13:00: Effective sales enablement15:00: Internal branding17:00: "Torture Chamber" game20:00: Engaging sales teams24:00: Impactful enablement sessions26:00: Leveraging top performers28:00: Integrating CI and product marketing30:00: Tips for building a CI program32:00: Pat’s future projects34:00: Thank you and closing remarks Show NotesPat’s LinkedInHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:00:52 Discussing Target Audience01:40 Horror Stories of Target Audience05:14 Challenges in Messaging and Segmentation14:23 Examples of Poor Market Segmentation21:49 Effective Segmentation Strategies32:15 The Power of Storytelling34:35 Understanding Your Audience38:19 Innovative Research Techniques Show Notes:Mercury EqualsArc BrowserFigmaDevin ReedClayton ChristensenOur websiteHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:0:00 The one word most miss in "product marketing" with Becky Trevino00:16 Introduction and Hosts Banter01:08 Introducing Special Guest Becky Trevino01:55 Becky's Career Journey and Unique Perspective02:49 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?05:05 Defining Product Market Fit07:44 Product Marketing Superpowers10:12 The Art of Storytelling in Product Marketing15:31 Torture Chamber: Tough Choices in Product Strategy19:08 Should Product Marketing Live Within Product?22:38 Building Strong Relationships with Product Managers23:09 Navigating New Challenges in a New Role24:50 Leading Commercial Reviews and Gaining Respect26:03 Balancing Technical and Marketing Perspectives27:55 The Role of AI in Product Marketing33:33 Balancing Present Offerings with Future Roadmaps Show Notes:Becky Trevino LinkedIn Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:01:05 Dave's Journey and Podcasting Tips04:18 The Importance of Product Marketing06:16 Early Stage Marketing Strategies13:29 Building Trust and Influence in Startups20:24 Positioning and Messaging Challenges24:42 Addressing the Decline in Win Rate25:24 Importance of Executing Positioning25:57 Casual Conversation and Personal Interests26:58 Messaging Torture Chamber27:31 Marketing Strategies: Brand vs. Content29:14 Event Marketing Insights30:59 Simplifying B2B Marketing34:38 The Role of Podcasts in B2B Marketing41:23 Conclusion and Upcoming Events Show Notes:Founder BrandDave LinkedInDave Kellog BlogExit Five CommunityThe Exit Five PodcastHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps00:20 Guest Introduction: Anna Borbotko06:17 TomTom's Evolution and Market Strategy10:25 Challenges and Strategies in Enterprise Product Marketing12:48 Cold Outreach Pilot Program16:27 Enterprise vs. Startup Dynamics18:30 The Evolution of Software Buying19:13 Challenges in the Automotive Industry19:32 Simplifying the Buying Process20:47 Sales and Buyer Enablement23:25 Marketing's Role in Buyer Enablement26:15 The Importance of Effective Collateral29:44 The Torture Chamber33:17 Anna's Initiatives and Final Thoughts Show Notes:Anna’s LinkedIn    Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions01:18 The Importance of Training in Product Marketing01:54 Identifying Unique Superpowers07:18 The Value of Formal Education and Certifications16:42 Applying Knowledge in Real-World Scenarios19:41 Leveraging Data Analytics in Product Marketing26:13 Continuous Learning and Networking33:01 Conclusion and Newsletter Promotion Show Notes:Million Dollar ConsultingYi Lin Pei’s The PMM Dream Job Blueprint Ready for LaunchB2B Messaging CourseYerba MATTTEEEEEEHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Host Intros01:07 Meet Our Guest: Carlota Guell03:28 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?08:18 B2B vs B2C Marketing Insights20:36 The Emotional Buying Pyramid24:22 Fun Lightning Round with Carlota26:43 Closing Remarks and Where to Find Carlota Show NotesProduct Marketing Stories podcastCarlota Guell's LinkedIn profile Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to the Misfit Podcast: Unveiling the World of Product Marketing00:16 Special Guest Harvey Lee: From Business to Rockstar01:45 The Great Debate: Are Marketers Really Marketers?05:14 A Dive into Marketing History with the McElroy Memo12:01 The Evolution of Product Marketing in the Digital Age18:43 Navigating the Pathways to Becoming a Full Stack Marketer21:45 The Journey from Sales, CS, to Product Marketing: A Comparative Analysis26:42 Debunking Marketing Myths: Beyond 'Build It and They Will Come'27:58 The Importance of Marketing Training and Accessibility28:51 Harvey's Journey: Leaving PMA and Embracing Advisory Roles34:16 The Power of Fit in Hiring and Career Growth38:29 Mastering Product Marketing: Skills, Training, and Community41:13 Harvey Lee's Insights: Full Stack Marketing and Beyond44:16 Connecting with Harvey Lee: Books, Awards, and More Show Notes:⁠ Below the Waterline Newsletter⁠⁠Get his book Backstage Pass⁠⁠Harvey's Website⁠⁠Harvey's LinkedIn ⁠Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Show Notes0:00 Standing tall in a "layoff-heavy" PMM job market w/ Yi Lin Pei00:00 Welcome to the Misfit Podcast: Unveiling Product Marketing Mysteries00:17 Introducing Yi Lin Pei: From Visual Artist to Product Marketing Pro03:03 The Unique Role of Product Marketers: Strategists, Not Just Marketers06:07 Mastering Product Marketing: Strategies for Success and Growth10:15 The Torture Chamber Game: Tough Choices for a Product Marketer21:05 Navigating Layoffs: Yi Lin's Perspective and Support for PMMs21:39 Navigating the Challenging Job Market: Strategies and Insights22:51 Differentiation in Job Applications: Standing Out in a Competitive Market23:37 Career Switching Advice: Embracing Stepping Stone Roles24:45 Personal Success Stories: Leveraging Unique Backgrounds for Career Advancement27:15 The Importance of Differentiation Throughout the Hiring Process32:03 Advocacy and Representation: Addressing Underrepresentation in Tech38:35 Leadership and Advocacy: Supporting Underrepresented Groups in the Workplace44:07 Yi Lin's PMM Superpower and Final Thoughts Resources:Courageous Careers Newsletter⁠⁠Positioning for Growth podcast⁠⁠Yi Lin Pei LinkedInHosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to Season 2: The Unforgettable Comeback00:55 The Big Reveal: Why We Faked Our Podcast's Death02:59 Emotional Engagement and Its Impact05:22 The Aftermath: Listener Reactions and Personal Reflections12:53 Introducing the Newsletter: A New Way to Engage15:52 The Misfit Community: Engaging with Our Audience17:17 Kicking Off with Casual Banter17:48 Deep Dive into Emotional Engagement20:02 Exploring Product Marketing Challenges24:58 Personal Growth and Professional Evolution27:05 Embracing the Consulting Journey33:06 Wrapping Up and Looking Forward Show notes:⁠We’re Not Marketers Website⁠⁠Dying 4 Influence Newsletter⁠⁠Ruben Studdard’s Sorry 2004⁠Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.