The Experience Edge

Steve Cleff, product design leader and founder of Prismatic Vision, has led product and design at Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, helping global enterprises move beyond feature factories toward experience-led growth. In this episode, he shares how his background in UX, engineering, and fine arts shapes his belief that customer experience starts long before someone touches your product.In conversation with Johan, Steve unpacks the tension between product and CX, why shared goals matter more than ownership, and how AI can accelerate - but not replace - human judgment. From RICE frameworks to agentic workflows, he challenges leaders to protect creativity and empathy while offloading structure and repetition.Guest BioSteve Cleff is a product design leader with over 15 years of experience building software that improves people’s lives and strengthens how companies engage customers. He has led product and design initiatives across organizations including Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, and has partnered with brands such as JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Target, and Vanguard.Now the founder of Prismatic Vision, Steve helps organizations gain a competitive edge through experience-led strategy, multi-agent AI workflows, and cross-functional collaboration between product and customer experience teams.TakeawaysCustomer experience begins before someone becomes a customer - from the first problem or “sniffle” to post-purchase advocacy.Product teams often drift into “feature farms” when roadmaps aren’t anchored in real customer journeys.CX and product don’t need strict ownership boundaries - they need shared goals and mutual reinforcement.AI should accelerate structure, synthesis, and distribution, but creativity, empathy, and strategic leaps must remain human-led.The future of roles may shift from titles like “PM” or “CX manager” to value-driven specialties like adoption and engagement.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Steve Cleff and Prismatic Vision02:25 What product gets wrong about customer experience05:39 How CX and product can work better together10:42 Where CX should sit in an organization13:41 Making product more experience-forward16:25 Marketing, value perception, and product failure18:06 Who owns the customer journey?22:49 Why journeys rarely exist before you build them24:20 What AI changes - and what stays human33:00 What to offload to AI vs. keep human40:01 From AI skeptic to AI advocate47:40 Preventing AI from amplifying bad CX decisions50:01 The future of product and CX rolesLinkedInSteve CleffJochem van der Veer

What if 2026 isn’t the year of the agentic enterprise?Most predictions paint 2026 as the moment AI suddenly takes over customer experience end to end. Autonomous agents. Self-driving journeys. Overnight transformation. In this Insights video, Jochem challenges that narrative - and argues the real shift is quieter, slower, and far more operational than the hype suggests. The risk for leaders isn’t moving too slowly - it’s aiming their CX strategy at a future that hasn’t arrived yet.In this video:Why 2026 is about agent adoption - not agentic transformationHow narrow agents quietly reshape CX work at the edges of journeysWhy data validation becomes the real bottleneck for AI in CXHow CX teams shift from insight production to stewarding trustWhen asynchronous AI work changes the pace and depth of decision-makingIf speed is no longer the advantage, what does it mean to scale trust instead?Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #ExperienceDesign #CXLeadership #AIinCX #DecisionMaking #OrganizationalDesign #SystemsThinking #ProductStrategy #ExperienceStrategy

Why executives nod at journey management - and then do nothingLeaders rarely push back on customer centricity - it sounds sensible, even obvious - yet that agreement is often exactly where journey management quietly stalls. In this Insights video, Jochem reflects on why the issue isn’t resistance but misunderstanding: journey management is still framed as a belief or a set of maps, when in reality it represents an operating model shift that changes prioritisation, coordination, ownership, and metrics. The moment those implications become clear, the nodding stops, and that gap between agreement and impact is where most journey work dies. By reframing journey management as a coordination system rather than a CX deliverable, this reflection shows why a single pitch never works - and why connecting the language to what different leaders actually care about is the only way to move from concept to practice.In this video:Why customer centricity is easy to agree with but hard to operationaliseHow journey management shifts decision-making, not just documentationWhy functional leaders and P&L owners need fundamentally different translationsHow journey management reduces chaos for teams - and reveals growth constraints for the businessWhat “executive empathy” really means when pitching customer journeysIf journey management keeps getting polite agreement but little traction, what are leaders actually hearing when you explain it?Follow Jochem on LinkedInLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

Suchi Parikh is a creative director and storyteller with a rare blend of design craft and business fluency. After a decade at Apple leading global sales content, she now serves as Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she helps bring complex product innovation to life across agent commerce, Venmo, and global payments. Her work sits at the intersection of empathy, clarity, and persuasion - translating complexity into stories that move people to act.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Suchi unpacks why every presentation is an act of persuasion, how teams unintentionally dump complexity on their audience, and what it really takes to transform someone from awareness to action. Together, they explore practical frameworks for simplifying stories, designing for emotional shifts in customer journeys, and building trust through intentional storytelling.Guest BioSuchi Parikh is a creative leader and Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she shapes how product innovation is communicated across global payments and commerce experiences. Previously, she spent over 10 years at Apple as a Group Creative Director, leading global sales content and executive storytelling.With a background in animation, design, and business, Suchi specializes in helping organizations clarify their thinking, reduce cognitive load, and communicate ideas with conviction. She is known for bridging creative storytelling with strategic business outcomes, and for mentoring teams to become more confident, intentional storytellers.Key TakeawaysEvery presentation is an act of persuasion, even routine business updates.Complexity is the storyteller’s responsibility, not the audience’s burden.Great business stories start with one clear intention, often anchored in a single word.Emotional state matters as much as functional clarity in customer journeys.Trust is built through simplicity, sequencing, and empathy, not more information.Chapters00:00 Introduction and background01:32 From design to business storytelling at Apple04:28 Why business presentations fail despite good data07:13 Every presentation as an act of persuasion09:56 A simple structure for clearer business stories12:58 Removing cognitive load and the one-word anchor19:50 Why having a point of view matters25:10 Audience Context Transformation (ACT) framework28:50 Emotional states in everyday customer journeys35:30 Operationalizing storytelling in large organizations40:24 Why energy matters more than logic44:10 Practicing storytelling in safe environments47:25 The role of a Director of Storytelling48:56 Rules, frameworks, and when to break them50:55 Learning from unexpected great storytellersLinkedIn ProfilesGuest - Suchi ParikhHost - Jochem 𝐖𝐀𝐓𝐂𝐇 𝐎𝐔𝐑 𝐎𝐓𝐇𝐄𝐑 𝐕𝐈𝐃𝐄𝐎𝐒: • Why Journey Management Is Really Organizat... • Why Collapsing CX Into Customer Service Br... • Organizing CX around what matters. - Angel... • Reflections 6 Why CX teams may be erasin... 𝐒𝐔𝐁𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐈𝐏𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊: https://www.theydo.com/podcasts/subsc... / @theexperienceedgepodcast Thank You For Watching

What if removing friction is ruining your customer experience?Everyone in CX wants to make things effortless. Fast. Smooth. Seamless. But in this Reflections episode, Jochem explores a provocative idea from his conversation with Sam Stern (Service Design Lead at LinkedIn): not all friction is bad - some friction creates memory, meaning, and better decisions.We unpack the difference between good friction and bad friction, with real examples from LinkedIn, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, IKEA, nightclubs, and Todd Unger’s work at the AMA. The goal isn’t to eliminate all effort - it’s to design effort where it matters most.In this video:Why some friction helps customers think clearly and choose betterHow friction creates emotional contrast and memorable momentsWhen organizational drag ruins customer experienceThe 4 types of customer journeys and how friction plays a roleHow to tell if your friction serves the customer - or your orgFollow Jochem on LinkedIn: @jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com#CustomerExperience #FrictionDesign #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #ExperienceDesign #ServiceDesign #DecisionMaking #EmotionalDesign #OrganizationalDrag #MemoryDesign #CustomerCentricity #BehavioralDesign #ExperienceArchitecture #SamStern #TheyDo

Are journey maps just artifacts or operating systems in disguise?In this episode, Jochem reflects on his conversation with Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, to explore how journey management becomes true organizational design.Dan's team didn’t just improve customer journeys - they restructured how decisions get made across teams. From building a “Journey Atlas” as a shared schema, to using immersive experiences to rewire executive thinking, their work signals a deeper shift: journey management isn’t about prettier maps. It’s about embedding customer thinking into the operating model.In this video:Why journey management = organizational designHow CSG created a decision-making nervous systemThe role of schema, structure, and centralized governanceWhat 500 people experienced inside the “journey museum”Signs your journey maps are shaping strategy—not just workshopsFollow Jochem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Charissa Riddle, Senior Director of Experience Design and Customer Experience Strategy and former EA executive, brings over two decades of experience spanning Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay. Known for operating at the intersection of design, operations, and strategy, Charissa has led global teams serving tens of millions of customers and players, tackling challenges like toxic behavior, self-service at scale, and embedding customer insight into decision-making.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Charissa reframes customer experience as a system rather than a department. They explore why CX loses power when it becomes too broad, how experience should be defined through actionable containers, and why stewardship of customer truth is the one responsibility CX leaders should never give away. Together, they unpack how governance, storytelling, and decision-making rituals determine whether CX drives real business impact or remains a reporting function.Guest BioCharissa Riddle is a senior experience design and customer experience strategy leader with more than 20 years of experience across gaming, fintech, and marketplaces. Formerly at Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay, she has led global teams focused on experience design, service strategy, and operational transformation at scale. Charissa is known for her systems-level thinking, her ability to align cross-functional stakeholders, and her focus on turning customer insight into measurable business outcomes.Key TakeawaysCustomer experience loses effectiveness when it is defined too broadly and without clear ownership or scope.CX works best as a system that connects interactions, emotions, and business outcomes across teams.Experiences should be defined in clear containers with entry points, exit points, and measurable impact.Metrics should be built from the experience outward, not imposed top-down as abstract efficiency measures.Stewardship of customer truth, journeys, and decision-making governance is a non-negotiable CX responsibility.Chapters00:00 Introduction and framing CX beyond customer service03:30 Why CX originated in service and why that still matters06:16 CX as a mindset, function, or system08:22 Defining experience as interactions that create emotion11:32 Connecting emotion, loyalty, and business outcomes18:06 Why CX definitions fail when they get too big21:15 Accountability, containers, and governance25:12 Making journeys tangible for leaders29:30 Storytelling that drives decisions31:47 Building a journey atlas at scale35:36 Moving from metric-driven to experience-driven measurement40:10 Centralization vs studio autonomy44:47 Business goals vs customer-led change46:04 Decision-making rituals and CX influence51:48 Cross-functional focus and the toxicity example57:59 What CX leaders should never give awayLinkedIn ProfilesCharissa RiddleJochem van der Veer

Martha Cotton, Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, brings 25 years of experience bridging anthropology, design, and enterprise transformation. Known for helping large organizations understand people, navigate change, and design for adoption, Martha shares how empathy, collaboration, and partnership shape modern design leadership.In this episode, she and Jochem explore how designers can speak the language of business, why data partnerships matter, and what it really takes to drive customer centricity inside legacy organizations. They examine the future of journey management, organizational transformation, and how AI will reshape creative work.Guest BioMartha Cotton is Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, where she leads design research and drives customer centricity across one of the world’s largest financial institutions. With a background in cultural anthropology, she has built a career spanning boutique studios, global consultancies, and enterprise design leadership.Her work focuses on designing for adoption, shaping change inside complex organizations, and elevating design as a strategic partner to the business. Martha is also an educator and long-standing contributor to the Ethnographic Praxis in Industry community.TakeawaysDesigning for adoption ensures experiences deliver sustained customer and business value.Design leaders must articulate impact in business terms, not just craft terms.Organizational change succeeds when it’s driven top down, bottom up, and radiating from the middle.Strong partnerships between design and data unlock measurable outcomes and credibility.Journey management becomes transformative when supported by diverse data and cross-functional collaboration.Chapters 00:00 Setup and warm up 02:27 Intro to Martha Cotton 03:44 Martha’s career through line 05:46 Why empathy still matters in business 08:17 Skills needed to thrive in complex enterprises 12:04 Craft, business impact, and designing for adoption 14:42 How design leadership is evolving 16:37 The rise and pitfalls of design thinking 19:58 Making new ways of working stick 22:11 Breaking the glass ceiling for design 25:23 Moving from order taking to partnership 28:53 Charm offensive and influencing without disruption 30:57 Learning business context the hard way 32:40 Early days of digital transformation 33:45 Making transformation stick in enterprises 35:04 Top down, bottom up, and middle-out change 39:32 The challenge of creating opportunities inside enterprises 44:00 Design and data partnerships 47:26 The evolution of journey management 49:29 Data-enabled journeys and organizational reality 54:41 What Martha wishes she could change 55:47 Thinking about AI as a creative partner 58:29 Where to find MarthaLinkedInGuest: Martha Cotton Host Jochem van der Veer

Most CX teams struggle to show ROI because they’re looking in the wrong place. CX isn’t just one metric and it was never meant to be. As Jochem van der Veer explains, leaders don’t fund sentiment… they fund outcomes.In this episode, Jochem breaks down the three ROI lenses every mature CX organization uses to quantify impact across the business: customer outcomes, operational efficiency, and strategic influence, and how they work together to reveal the full-stack value of customer experience.If you want CX to be taken seriously, stop defending it with dashboards and start showing how the system behaves differently because of the way you work.What You’ll LearnHow to measure and prove CX impact through three enterprise-wide signals:Customer Outcomes. How reduced churn, faster time-to-value, and increased cross-sell/upsell probabilities drive revenue growthOperational Efficiency. How fixing upstream friction cuts avoidable support volume, eliminates duplication of work, and reduces delay-driven wasteStrategic Influence. How journey alignment accelerates prioritization, decision-making, and cross-functional clarityYou’ll walk away with a practical, system-level view of CX ROI that product, finance, and executive teams actually believe.KEYWORDSbusiness value of customer experience, customer experience ROI, CX strategy, customer retention, brand loyalty, experience management, CX metrics, customer insights, customer journey, customer feedback, business strategy, ROI, CX leadership, CX design, simon sinek, user experience, customer satisfaction, business growth, value proposition, customer service, customer relationships, marketing strategyWatch next:Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below). • Experience starts with the CFO – Bill StaikosSubscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer-centricity at scale.Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.CONNECT WITH US:Website: https://www.theydo.com/LinkedIn: https://theydo-journey-managementTwitter: https://x.com/TheyDoHQ

Sam Stern, Service Design Lead at LinkedIn and longtime CX thinker, joins TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer to explore how journeys, data, and behavioral science shape memorable experiences. With a background spanning Forrester, New Balance, and his own CX Patterns podcast, Sam reveals why perfection is overrated and why some friction, when engineered well, can actually deepen customer value.They dig into good friction, employee experience design, cross-silo collaboration, and how AI is reshaping research workflows. Sam challenges long held CX doctrines, offering a fresh lens on how to create experiences that customers remember and teams can deliver with confidence.Guest BioSam Stern is the Service Design Lead at LinkedIn, where he focuses on improving the employee and customer facing experiences that power the platform’s global ecosystem. Before LinkedIn, Sam spent nearly 16 years as a Principal Analyst at Forrester, shaping industry thinking on customer experience. He has also led CX at New Balance and is the creator of the CX Patterns podcast and newsletter. Sam is known for blending behavioral science, service design, and practical business insight to help organizations craft experiences that matter.Key TakeawaysGood friction can enhance memorability when intentionally designed, contrasted with the CX habit of removing all friction.Behavioral science principles like anticipation, contrast, and peak moments remain underused in customer experience design.Service design at LinkedIn prioritizes improving the employee experience for 12,000+ customer facing roles to strengthen customer outcomes.Journey readouts become dramatically more effective when grounded in video evidence from real users.AI accelerates research workflows but amplifies, rather than replaces, human judgment and context setting.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Sam Stern 02:00 Why another CX book 05:00 The concept of good friction 08:30 When friction helps and when it harms 12:00 Ethical considerations in engineered friction 16:00 How service design operates inside LinkedIn 21:00 Secrets to effective journey readouts 24:00 Helping product teams see beyond their scope 26:45 How prioritization works across product and CX 29:00 Journey atlas and cross org context 32:00 Blending CX, UX, and service design roles 35:00 Business impact and full stack builder 39:00 AI’s role in research and insight development 43:00 Can AI ever understand context 49:00 The future of service design and CX 58:00 Why silos aren’t going away 59:00 Where to find SamLinkedInFollow Sam Stern: Post on Good Friction Post on Book announcement Follow Jochem van der Veer:

After more than 20 years at Philips, Tina Lilje knows what it takes to make customer experience more than a metric. As former Global Head of Customer Experience, she built a CX strategy across 100+ countries and 75,000 employees—connecting the dots between service, design, and leadership.In this episode, Tina and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how healthcare is embracing AI without losing its human touch. From fixing design flaws that cost millions to turning executives into customer sponsors, Tina shares why the most successful CX strategies start with root causes, not dashboards—and why humans will always be healthcare’s most valuable premium.Guest BioTina Lilje is the former Global Head of Customer Experience at Philips, where she led the company’s global CX transformation across healthcare and B2B markets. Over two decades, she moved from marketing and M&A to executive CX leadership, designing a customer-first strategy spanning more than 100 countries. Known for operationalizing CX and aligning global teams around root-cause improvement, Tina now advises organizations on embedding customer-centric thinking that actually sticks.Key TakeawaysFix root causes, not symptoms: Sustainable CX impact comes from addressing systemic design flaws, not surface-level issues.AI in healthcare needs humans: Technology should enhance, not replace, human care, especially in regulated, high-stakes industries.Customer voice is the strongest lever: Bringing real customer stories into leadership discussions drives alignment and urgency.KPIs must match behavior: Incentives shape culture, customer goals only work when bonuses, priorities, and structures reinforce them.Consistency beats perfection: True CX excellence lies in reliability, authenticity, and operational follow-through.Episode Chapters00:00 Welcome and introduction 03:00 Why humans are a premium in healthcare’s AI era 06:00 Balancing innovation with regulation in clinical settings 09:50 How small CX fixes drive major impact 14:30 Discovering the “detector” moment: fixing root causes 18:00 Turning CX from a program into a lasting function 25:00 Finding mentors and building CX leadership credibility 33:00 Creating partnerships, not transactions, with customers 41:00 Why NPS failed and what replaced it 48:20 Embedding CX across functions and KPIs 52:00 Aligning around customer realities, not silos 56:00 Incentives, ownership, and the human factor 01:04:00 When to go “all in” on CX, and when not to 01:06:30 Tina’s next chapter and closing thoughtsLinkedIn ProfilesFollow Tina Lilje: Follow Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo):

Can AI actually help you understand your customers - or is it just noise at scale?As teams lean into AI to handle discovery work, it’s tempting to treat all insights as equal. But not all research sources are created equal - and AI isn’t great at everything.In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer breaks down where AI actually supports discovery... and where it silently sabotages it. This is a guide for anyone using AI to scale research, sift through feedback, or make sense of customer data.What You’ll Learn: • A side-by-side breakdown of 8 key research sources - and where AI helps (or fails) • Why AI performs well on written support data but fails to read tone, sarcasm, or urgency • How AI misses the intent behind interviews - and why that matters for product decisions • The danger of over-trusting CRM notes, sales transcripts, and survey sentiment without context • How to combine AI-assisted insights with human nuance to get to real customer truthFollow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedInLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, has transformed how a major healthcare company connects business outcomes to customer experience. With a background spanning customer success, strategy, and design, Dan has built an enterprise-wide journey management practice that brings data, insights, and teams together to act as one.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Dan shares how CHG made journey management tangible, through immersive storytelling, data integration, and co-creation across teams. He reveals how to align CX with business strategy, balance customer obsession with outcomes, and create organizational change that lasts beyond the latest initiative.Guest BioDan Sullivan is the Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, where he leads the development and implementation of a company-wide journey management practice. His work bridges customer insight, product design, and business strategy to drive measurable impact. Prior to CHG, Dan led customer success at TheyDo and held strategic roles across startups and global enterprises. Known for his creative storytelling and systems thinking, he’s helping redefine how large organizations use journey management to become truly customer-led.Top TakeawaysJourney management is not about the artifact, it’s about changing how decisions are made across teams.Start with awareness, not solutions: make the problem visible before promoting the framework.Balance customer and business goals: customer obsession means nothing without measurable impact.Immersive storytelling drives adoption: CHG’s “journey museum” helped hundreds of employees walk in their customer’s shoes.Keep adapting: journey management is a living system, not a one-time rollout.Chapters00:00 Introducing Dan Sullivan and CHG Healthcare 02:12 Why it’s not about the journey itself 04:40 Customer centricity and business alignment 08:46 Balancing customer obsession with business goals 10:28 Finding gaps and building the case for journeys 13:20 Why CHG chose a journey-led approach 16:42 Connecting teams through shared journeys 18:48 Building an immersive journey experience 25:13 The impact of the immersive launch 29:19 From solution awareness to problem awareness 31:37 Making data meaningful, not just measurable 34:43 Using journeys as a decision-making tool 36:30 Keeping journey maps simple but powerful 40:38 Helping experience teams understand business impact 44:12 Organizational changes and long-term shifts 48:33 Embedding journeys into OKRs 52:14 Navigating resistance and scaling adoption 54:30 Governance, ownership, and design systems 58:18 Building ownership across teams 01:00:43 Advice to younger self and closing thoughtsLinkedIn ProfilesDan Sullivan (CHG Healthcare) Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo)

Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, bridges customer success and experience to create truly journey-centered transformation. With nearly three decades of experience, Ray’s approach brings operational cohesion, data-driven insights, and a cultural shift that makes customer obsession real inside the enterprise.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Ray unpacks how Microsoft is blending CX and CS through journey-based operating models, how AI enables proactive coaching, and why humility and alignment—not hierarchy—drive lasting success.Guest BioRaymond (Ray) Otero is Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft, where he leads strategic programs that connect customer success, experience design, and data insights across the organization. With over 25 years of experience spanning Citrix, Microsoft, and advisory roles with the Customer Success Collective and Influence Board, Ray helps global enterprises shift from reactive account management to proactive, journey-based transformation.TakeawaysCX and Customer Success must operate as one journey, not separate functions.“Leaning left” means involving success teams early—before the sale—to drive outcomes.AI should enhance human connection by removing repetitive tasks and surfacing insights.Journey health is the new north star—measuring alignment, not just satisfaction.True leadership requires humility, collaboration, and a culture of shared learning.Chapters 00:00 Meet Raymond Otero, Director of Global Customer Experience at Microsoft 02:00 Redefining CX and Customer Success at Microsoft 06:00 Why silos hurt the customer journey 10:00 The “lean left” principle and early success engagement 14:00 CX as data, analytics, and rhythm of business 17:00 Journey as the organizational glue 19:00 Turning journeys into joint operating models 27:00 From tactical fixes to strategic programs 31:00 How AI reshapes customer success roles 36:00 Will AI replace CS jobs? 44:00 Building better CX organizations and roles 49:00 Structuring OKRs and aligning CX metrics 55:00 Journey-centered metrics and global alignment 59:00 Creating cultural cohesion and removing silos 01:03:00 Where to find Ray and final reflectionsLinkedInRaymond Otero Jochem van der Veer Websitesmicrosoft.com (Company) (Personal) (Personal)

AI Won’t Fix Broken Customer UnderstandingAre you speeding past discovery and straight into irrelevance?Generative AI has made it easy to ship. Everyone can prototype, design, and launch faster than ever. But faster doesn’t mean better, and skipping discovery is a mistake teams keep making.In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) challenges the illusion of progress AI creates, and shows why the real return on investment lies in how we use AI for discovery - not delivery.What You’ll Learn: • Why skipping discovery leads to false confidence and wasted effort • The overlooked ROI of AI: freeing time for deeper customer understanding • How a scratched-up skate shoe saved Lego and what that means for your product strategy • The limits of AI in research: where human insight still matters most • A shift in mindset: from shipping more to learning fasterFollow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedInLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, is driving one of the boldest CX transformations in healthcare - reorganizing the company around customer journeys. Drawing on his time at JPMorgan Chase, where he pioneered the “experience object” strategy, Bruno explains what it takes to turn journey theory into business impact.In this episode, he and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how to align teams, data, and leadership around outcomes that balance customer intent and business value. The conversation reveals why shared ownership, empathy, and orchestration, not technology alone, power true transformation.Guest BioBruno Monteiro is VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads the transformation of web and mobile experiences helping millions of Americans save and invest for health and wealth. Formerly Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JPMorgan Chase, he developed the “experience object” model and the UNDesign framework, applying systems thinking to reimagine how large enterprises align around journeys. Bruno also teaches at the School of Visual Arts and contributes to the Service Design Network.TakeawaysJourney management succeeds when accountability, not ownership, drives collaboration.Taxonomy and shared language are essential to aligning business and customer outcomes.Product owners are evolving into “journey orchestrators” focused on end-to-end experiences.Metrics must layer: KPIs + CX scores + UX signals = true visibility.AI accelerates discovery but cannot replace empathy or human insight.Chapters 00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase 03:07 What it means to lead with journeys 07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences 10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy 14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase 18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners 21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes 25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture 28:58 The evolution from product to journey management 34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business 39:37 Starting small and building behavior change 42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform 43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough 46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction 50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery 51:40 Structuring research around journeys 55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy 58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design 01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research 01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact 01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign 01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his workLinkedInBruno Monteiro:   LINKEDINJochem van der Veer: LINKEDINKEYWORDS:  #CustomerExperienceDesign #JourneyBasedTransformation #DigitalExperienceLeadership #CXMetricsAndKPIs #ProductToJourneyShift #HealthcareCX #FinancialServicesCX #ExperienceArchitecture #CustomerIntentData #OrchestratedCustomerJourneys #DesignForOutcomes #UNDesignFramework #AIInCX #EmpathyDrivenDesign #ServiceDesignLeadership #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #DigitalTransformation #ProductToJourney #ServiceDesign #CustomerEmpathy #SystemsThinking #EndToEndDesign #ExperienceBlueprinting #CXLeadership #JobsToBeDone #CustomerIntent #CXMetrics #AIAndCX #UNDesignMindset #CX #Journeys #Design #Empathy #AI #Leadership #Data #Strategy #Systems #Innovation #Metrics #Blueprints #Outcomes #Ownership #Discovery

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Bruno Monteiro, VP and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, about what it truly takes to transform large organizations around customer journeys. From implementing journey management at JP Morgan Chase as a "Trojan horse" strategy to now leading an experience-centered transformation in healthcare, Bruno offers sharp, practical insights into how CX leaders can move from theory to enterprise-wide practice.Bruno unpacks the challenges of scaling journey ownership, balancing business metrics with customer intent, and creating visibility through journey architectures. He dives into the need for shared accountability, behavior change, and empathy-building through real customer insights, beyond the limitations of synthetic data and dashboards. For anyone driving or scaling journey-based transformation, this episode is a masterclass.Guest BioBruno Monteiro is the Vice President and Head of Digital Experience at HealthEquity, where he leads digital transformation across web and mobile platforms to help millions of Americans manage their health and wealth. Previously, he was Executive Director and Head of Service Design at JP Morgan Chase, where he pioneered journey-based transformation using the "Experience Object Strategy." He is the creator of UNDesign, a mindset and methodology to dismantle legacy systems and drive systemic change. Bruno also teaches at SVA’s MFA in Design for Social Innovation and is a contributor to the Service Design Network.TakeawaysJourney Management Requires Real Accountability: Journey owners must have end-to-end decision-making power, not just titles.Balance Customer and Business Outcomes: True impact comes from aligning customer needs with measurable business value.Taxonomy is Foundational: Organizations need a shared language around journeys, jobs to be done, and experiences.Start Small, Then Scale: Begin with high-friction, high-volume journeys to prove value and gain traction.Design for Alignment, Not Just Execution: Orchestrating roadmaps across multiple teams and OKRs is key.NPS Isn’t Enough: It's useful for stakeholder buy-in, but real transformation needs layered metrics and operational data.Blueprinting Should Include System Decisions: “Service archaeology” reveals legacy constraints that block innovation.Don’t Just Show the Journey, Make It the Source of Truth: Create accessible, dynamic journey architecture systems.AI Has Limits in Empathy and Intent: Human insight is still essential for identifying emotional and contextual signals.Product Owners Must Evolve: The journey owner role is the next step in aligning teams around end-to-end outcomes.UNDesign Is About Dismantling to Rebuild: Bruno’s methodology encourages questioning, unlearning, and system transformation.Chapters00:00 Intro and the Trojan Horse at Chase 03:07 What it means to lead with journeys 07:33 Jobs to be Done vs. Journeys vs. Experiences 10:28 Journey architecture and taxonomy 14:10 Journey ownership and org structure at Chase 18:18 Accountability and the role of journey owners 21:34 Balancing business and customer outcomes 25:50 Coordinating the journey architecture 28:58 The evolution from product to journey management 34:33 Designing metrics that resonate with the business 39:37 Starting small and building behavior change 42:28 Selecting the first journeys to transform 43:41 Why NPS isn’t enough 46:00 Using layered metrics to reveal friction 50:04 Upskilling product owners for better discovery 51:40 Structuring research around journeys 55:27 AI’s limitations in customer empathy 58:16 Synthetic users and bias in design 01:02:29 AI can support, but not replace, deep research 01:05:27 Building empathy through real customer contact 01:08:16 Final advice and the vision of UNDesign 01:10:17 Where to find Bruno and follow his workLinkedInFollow Bruno MonteiroFollow Jochem van der Veer

Governance Models Every CX Leader Should KnowOne global staffing firm discovered they were solving the same customer problem six different ways across regions. No alignment, duplicated work, eroded trust - not a tooling issue, but a governance issue.In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (CEO of TheyDo) shares what he’s learned about how to structure journey management from working with 50-60 Fortune 500 companies.He breaks down four real-world journey governance models - from Central Command to Full Autonomy - and explains the pros, cons, and trade-offs of each. You’ll hear how organizations move from chaos to coordination, and why your journey operating model is your real CX “operating system.”You’ll learn how to scale journey management without bottlenecks, and why your governance model is the hidden lever behind customer-centric growth.Key InsightsWhy CX transformation often stalls due to operating model failure, not toolsThe four governance models for journey management: Orchestrated, Hub & Spoke, Federated Excellence, and Full AutonomyHow to decide who owns journeys, who governs frameworks, and who decides standardsHow distributed ownership can speed up delivery 50–60% while still keeping alignmentWhy your journey framework should work like a shared data warehouse - one truth, many tailored viewsSubscribe to The Experience Edge for more on journey management, CX strategy, and the future of customer-centric organizations. Like, comment, and share this episode with your team if you’re wrestling with silos or fragmented journeys.#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CXLeadership #DigitalTransformation #BreakingSilos #CustomerCentricity #ExperienceEdge

If you can’t map customer experience to a business metric your CFO already obsesses over, you’re playing the wrong game.”That’s how Bill Staikos - former Global Head of Experience at BNY Mellon and CX leader at American Express, JP Morgan, and Freddie Mac - describes the future of customer experience.In this episode, Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo) reflects on his recent podcast episode with Bill, unpacks what it really means to tie customer outcomes to business results, and why most CX teams are still speaking the wrong language.What You’ll LearnHow to connect CX metrics to growth, risk, and operating leverage, the language of the C‑suiteWhy delight and NPS aren’t enough to earn credibilityA 3‑step shift to translate customer outcomes into business impactHow to earn a seat at the table by proving measurable ROI from experience workWatch next: Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9107GkJD4gSubscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer‑centricity at scale.Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.#CustomerExperience #CXLeadership #CustomerCentricity #BusinessImpact #JourneyManagement #ExperienceEdge #BNYMellon #CFO #CXStrategy

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem Van Der Veer speaks with Eric Roux, Customer Experience Director at Cisco and co‑founder of the Boston Blockchain Association, about a compelling but underexplored idea: embedding customer experience (CX) into the go‑to‑market engine by forging a tight partnership with sales. They dive into how this alignment enables brands to deliver on promises, orchestrate outcomes, and avoid the “tossing over the fence” trap that many CX organizations fall into.They also cover how CX leaders should build teams that are empowered and adaptive (not just follow the textbook), the nuanced role of metrics and trust, and how AI is starting to play a supporting, but not dominant, role in high‑touch enterprise relationships. Eric shares practical examples of how he’s applied these ideas in enterprise contexts and offers advice for scaling intimacy in consumer or low‑touch environments.Guest BioEric Roux is Customer Experience Director at Cisco, where he leads efforts to tightly integrate CX with sales, ensuring that customer promises made in the pursuit phase are honored through delivery and ongoing value creation. He is also a co‑founder of the Boston Blockchain Association, supporting innovation and connecting emerging tech leaders with funding and mentorship. With a background in consulting and professional services at top firms, Eric brings both strategic depth and hands‑on discipline to the CX space.What you will learnCX and sales must “show up together” and speak with one unified voice to align around customer outcomes.It’s not enough for sales to hand off a customer, real partnership means knowing when CX leads and when sales leads, and stepping in accordingly.The human dimension (listening, relationships, trust) remains central in delivering CX, even more so than methodology and tools.Formalizing CX as a discipline sometimes leads teams to overemphasize frameworks and lose sight of customer reality.High performers in CX don’t need the textbook; they instinctively adapt, experiment, and course‑correct.A strong CX team is built by enabling autonomy, allowing for mistakes, and prioritizing growth and chemistry over rigid structure.In high-touch enterprise environments, CX serves as the orchestrator: in the room with the customer, tying threads together, facilitating alignment.In low-touch or high-volume contexts, CX must lean heavily on measurements, signals, and relationships with stakeholder proxies.AI is a powerful assistant: e.g. refining meeting preparation, automating analysis, but it doesn’t replace judgment, empathy, or orchestration.Metrics can be overdone: choose the ones that matter, set boundaries, and be willing to evolve them over time.Chapters 00:00 Intro & framing: CX + Sales partnership 02:19 Why speak with one voice 04:19 Why many organizations struggle 06:04 Building the partnership: who initiates 08:00 What we lose in formalizing CX 09:17 Team composition & hiring 10:36 Orchestration across CX & Sales 13:13 Example: bringing people into the room 15:19 CX as the central orchestrator 17:42 Low‑touch / high-volume CX challenges 20:19 Distinctions between high-touch & transactional 22:31 Should CX be a department? 24:26 Role of AI in high-touch CX 27:55 Scaling productivity & journey to value 30:30 The expectation shift in delivery 32:16 Trust, consultant role & relationships 33:10 Obsession with metrics 35:20 Working backward from outcomes 36:46 Accountability and cross-domain problems 38:16 Incentivizing CX roles 40:43 Close to the customer in startups 42:59 How to keep intimacy while scaling 45:18 Traits of CX “rock stars” 47:13 Entry-level roles, AI & the future 50:00 Analytics vs. human insight 52:07 Incentives, role design & alignment 52:35 Closing / how to reach Eric LinkedIn & Other LinksFollow Jochem Van Der Veer (TheyDo) Follow Eric Roux Eric's Website Boston Blockchain Association