The Experience Edge

Katie Duncan, former CX leader at Warner Bros. Discovery, joins The Experience Edge to unpack what it actually takes to operationalize customer experience inside complex, high-growth media organizations. Drawing from scaling CX across major streaming launches, she brings a grounded view on turning strategy into execution.The conversation centers on the gap between customer-centric ambition and operational reality. Katie argues that most companies lose customer insight during execution, and that true CX maturity comes from embedding insights into decision-making across the full lifecycle, not just measuring outcomes after the fact.Guest BioKatie Duncan is a customer experience leader with over 15 years of experience driving CX transformation across media and technology organizations. At Warner Bros. Discovery, she built and scaled CX operations supporting major streaming launches including Discovery Plus and Magnolia. Her work spans operational design, customer insights, and cross-functional alignment at scale. She is known for bridging strategy and execution in complex enterprise environments. Katie has led large teams and influenced CX integration across product ecosystems during periods of rapid growth and organizational change.Key TakeawaysCustomer centricity often exists as cultural language rather than operational reality, breaking down when insights are not embedded into decision-making processesCX impact comes from preventing friction early in the journey, not reacting to issues after they surface in metricsTreating CX as a reporting function limits influence, while positioning it as a decision partner enables real business impactHidden defects in customer journeys often exist between touchpoints, requiring end-to-end analysis rather than isolated optimizationAI accelerates insight generation but increases the need for governance, intentional design, and human-led context shapingChapters00:00 The illusion of customer centricity in enterprise CX03:30 Why customer insights fail to influence decision making08:00 Strategy misalignment and CX execution gaps12:30 From seat at the table to owning customer experience decisions16:00 Customer journey orchestration and decision context20:30 Moving beyond VOC reports to behavioral insights25:00 Identifying hidden friction in customer journeys29:30 Scaling CX impact through early intervention34:00 Building business acumen in CX teams38:30 AI in customer experience and shifting roles43:30 Context shaping and cross-functional alignment49:00 Governance in enterprise CX transformation54:00 Designing customer journeys from the startLinkedInKatie Duncan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-g-duncanJochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerHashtags#EnterpriseCustomerExperience #CustomerJourneyOrchestration #CXTransformationStrategy #JourneyCentricOperatingModel #BreakingDownSilosInCX #CrossFunctionalAlignmentCX #CustomerExperienceLeadership #OperationalizingCustomerExperience #ExperienceDrivenGrowth #TheyDoPlatform #CustomerExperienceTransformationFramework #EnterpriseCXStrategy

In this Insights episode, Jochem van der Veer challenges the assumption that more data, dashboards, and AI naturally lead to better customer experience decisions. The real issue isn’t visibility - it’s the absence of shared context that gives data meaning.Most organizations aren’t lacking insights; they’re operating in different versions of reality. Teams interpret the same signals differently and optimize locally, while AI only accelerates this misalignment. Without a shared understanding of where signals live in the customer journey and what they mean, organizations don’t scale intelligence - they scale confusion.In this video:Why more data doesn’t solve misalignment and often makes it worseHow fragmented context leads to false problems and wasted investmentWhat it means to anchor metrics in the customer journey, not departmentsWhy AI amplifies structural issues instead of fixing themHow shared context changes prioritization, decision-making, and strategyHow do you know if your organization is solving real problems or just reacting to disconnected signals?Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #OrganizationalDesign #DecisionMaking #CustomerJourney #BusinessTransformation #AIinCX #ExperienceManagement #ProductStrategy #OperationalExcellence #VoiceOfCustomer

Gene Hong, Design Leader at Target and founder of Aperture North, brings over 25 years of experience shaping how brands translate creativity into commercial success. Leading a $770M portfolio, Gene operates at the intersection of design, business strategy, and innovation, with a focus on creating culturally relevant, high-impact consumer experiences.In this conversation, Gene explores why the future of design lies beyond optimization and into “designing for the moment.” From triangulation and imperfect creativity to the rising importance of judgment in an AI-driven world, he challenges leaders to rethink how experience, business acumen, and creative risk come together to drive meaningful growth.TakeawaysGreat design leaders balance creative output with intentional input to sustain originality and perspective.“Triangulation” - combining insights from different contexts - is key to creating unexpected, differentiated outcomes.AI increases the volume of ideas, but judgment, experience, and imperfection remain uniquely human advantages.Business acumen is essential for designers to gain influence and move ideas from concept to execution.Innovation requires organizational space for risk - often a dedicated structure separate from core operations.LinkedInGene Hong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genehong/Jochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvdveer/

In this Insights episode, Jochem van der Veer challenges the common belief that improving customer experience requires more data, dashboards, and AI, revealing instead how a lack of shared context across teams leads to misaligned decisions. While organizations optimize performance using advanced analytics and AI-driven insights, they often operate on different versions of reality, creating fragmented customer journeys and inconsistent outcomes. As AI accelerates decision-making at scale, this misalignment becomes a critical risk, making shared context-not more data-the true foundation for effective customer experience strategy.In this video:Why fragmented context-not lack of data-is the real bottleneck in CXHow teams create “local truths” that distort decision-makingWhat AI actually does when your underlying structure is misalignedWhy defining where signals live in the journey changes everythingHow shared context turns metrics into meaningful, connected insightWhen optimization becomes dangerous because the problem isn’t realIf every team is right-but the outcome is wrong-what reality is your organization actually operating in?Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #OrganizationalDesign #DecisionMaking #AIinBusiness #CustomerInsights #BusinessTransformation #ProductStrategy #ExperienceManagement #DataStrategy #Leadership #DigitalTransformation

Ashana Singhania, VP Product Management at Goldman Sachs and former product leader at American Express, operates at the intersection of product, trust, and regulation. Having led zero-to-one launches and large-scale platform consolidations across payments, lending, and digital banking, she brings a clear-eyed view of building customer experience inside highly regulated financial institutions.In this episode, Ashana introduces the concept of “experience debt” - the invisible friction that accumulates when speed, compliance, or legacy systems outweigh intuition and clarity. She explains why dashboards often lag trust signals, how product leaders can quantify qualitative friction, and why empathy, alignment, and narrative-building are essential to protect customer trust at scale.Guest BioAshana Singhania is a product and innovation leader in fintech and banking, currently serving as VP Product Management at Goldman Sachs. Prior to this, she spent nearly a decade at American Express building and scaling products across payments, lending, risk, and digital banking.She specializes in zero-to-one product launches, platform transformations, and navigating trade-offs between speed, regulatory compliance, and customer experience in complex enterprise environments.TakeawaysCustomer experience is “everybody’s KPI, but nobody’s operating mandate” - and that’s where friction begins.Experience debt is more dangerous than technical debt because it erodes trust silently and spreads across teams.Dashboards lag trust signals - qualitative feedback, repeat contacts, and hesitation often reveal issues before metrics do.Quantifying friction requires translating customer pain into revenue delay, cost-to-serve increases, and operational inefficiencies.In regulated environments, trust and consent must take priority over speed - especially as AI and agentic commerce evolve.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Ashana Singhania02:18 Is experience part of product or vice versa?05:04 Aligning silos around a North Star08:10 Roadmaps, customer feedback, and evolving priorities11:49 AI, agentic commerce, and trust in finance16:01 When dashboards are green but trust is red18:55 What is experience debt?21:17 When experience debt becomes an organizational problem24:50 Preventing friction through testing and metrics31:17 Building cross-functional bridges in large institutions35:44 Platform consolidation and hidden complexity39:49 Technical debt vs experience debt43:07 Making experience debt visible and actionable47:54 Quantifying qualitative friction52:44 Advice for product leaders in feature factoriesLinkedInAshana SinghaniaJochem van der Veer

Anne-Kathrine Nissen is a seasoned user experience leader who has driven customer-centric digital transformation across global brands like Airbus and Electrolux, and today shapes omnichannel experience at H&M across 79 markets. In this episode, she joins TheyDo co-founder Jochem van der Veer to unpack what it really takes to run experience-led transformation at global scale, where hundreds of journeys, cultures, and systems collide.Together, they explore why customer journeys work best as an organizing principle rather than a static artifact, how vocabulary and storytelling create alignment across silos, and why experience leadership is ultimately about trust, influence, and long-term change management. The conversation challenges the idea of “simple journeys” and offers a grounded view on coherence over consistency in global CX.Guest BioAnne-Kathrine Nissen is a User Experience and Journey Leader with extensive experience driving large-scale digital and experience transformation in global organizations. She has held senior design and experience roles at companies including Airbus and Electrolux, and currently leads product design and journey work at H&M, spanning digital, retail, and customer service. Known for her systems thinking and collaborative leadership style, Anna-Kathrine focuses on building coherence across complex ecosystems through trust, storytelling, and cross-functional alignment.Key TakeawaysThere is no single customer journey at scale. Global organizations operate hundreds or thousands of journeys that need shared principles, not rigid maps.Customer journeys are most powerful as an organizing principle to align teams, language, and priorities across silos.Experience leadership requires speaking multiple vocabularies. Sales, tech, marketing, and design all need to hear the story in their own language.Consistency comes from shared principles and narrative, not identical experiences across markets.Insights do not die. They fade away unless actively evangelized, interpreted, and embedded into everyday decision-making.Chapters00:00 Welcome and introductions03:30 Why there is no such thing as a simple customer journey05:40 Customer journeys as inspiration vs execution09:10 Vocabulary, storytelling, and cross-functional alignment12:30 Templates, coherence, and change management18:00 Strategy, agility, and journey ownership24:40 AI, agentic commerce, and the future of channels27:20 Consistency vs coherence across global markets38:00 From marketplace to brand: rethinking H&M’s experience43:30 Driving transformation through journeys and insights50:45 Making sense of a sea of experience data57:15 Keeping insights alive inside large organizations01:05:10 Where to connect with Anna-KathrineLinkedIn ProfilesAnne-Kathrine NissenJochem van der Veer𝐒𝐔𝐁𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐈𝐁𝐄: / @TheyDoPodcast

Adam Towne, Director of Product for Skilled Analytics and Funds at LSEG, began his career on an 11-hour help desk shift before moving into account management and ultimately product leadership. Now building analytics and API products for asset managers, banks, and hedge funds, he brings a rare perspective: customer support is not a cost center, it is a growth engine.In this conversation, Adam reframes customer experience for sophisticated power users. Instead of chasing “aha” moments, he argues for monotony, reliability, and invisible excellence. From role-based access control pitfalls to the “tiny dot” reality of product in a larger ecosystem, he explores how product leaders can own CX without creating more silos.Guest BioAdam Towne is Director of Product for Skilled Analytics and Funds at LSEG, where he leads data analytics and API products serving institutional clients including asset managers, banks, and hedge funds.He previously spent seven years in fixed income analytics at Citi, transitioning from help desk to account management and product management. Adam is a CFA charter holder and holds an engineering degree from Cornell University. His expertise spans power-user product design, financial analytics, and building reliable systems for high-stakes environments.TakeawaysCustomer experience is not a department, it is a product in itself and a shared responsibility across the organization.Power users do not want “aha” moments. They want reliability, monotony, and infrastructure they never have to think about.Good friction can exist in setup and onboarding for sophisticated users, but integration friction must be minimized.Feature creep for power users should be managed through primitive building blocks, not endless configuration options.Product leaders should own customer experience by aligning product decisions with support, sales, and operational metrics, not just revenue.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Adam Towne and LSEG02:09 Lessons from starting on the help desk03:55 Why customer experience is a product06:18 What real customer centricity looks like10:23 Designing for power users vs classic CX13:34 Good friction vs bad friction15:10 Trade-offs of focusing on power users19:32 Enabling the broader organization around product changes23:48 Visualizing cross-user journeys inside a customer33:55 The “tiny dot” reality of product in a larger ecosystem39:27 Who should own customer experience?44:33 Product culture vs additional management layers50:54 The measurement gap between product and CXLinkedInAdam TowneJochem van der Veer

Steve Cleff, product design leader and founder of Prismatic Vision, has led product and design at Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, helping global enterprises move beyond feature factories toward experience-led growth. In this episode, he shares how his background in UX, engineering, and fine arts shapes his belief that customer experience starts long before someone touches your product.In conversation with Johan, Steve unpacks the tension between product and CX, why shared goals matter more than ownership, and how AI can accelerate - but not replace - human judgment. From RICE frameworks to agentic workflows, he challenges leaders to protect creativity and empathy while offloading structure and repetition.Guest BioSteve Cleff is a product design leader with over 15 years of experience building software that improves people’s lives and strengthens how companies engage customers. He has led product and design initiatives across organizations including Comcast, Barclays, and Siemens, and has partnered with brands such as JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Target, and Vanguard.Now the founder of Prismatic Vision, Steve helps organizations gain a competitive edge through experience-led strategy, multi-agent AI workflows, and cross-functional collaboration between product and customer experience teams.TakeawaysCustomer experience begins before someone becomes a customer - from the first problem or “sniffle” to post-purchase advocacy.Product teams often drift into “feature farms” when roadmaps aren’t anchored in real customer journeys.CX and product don’t need strict ownership boundaries - they need shared goals and mutual reinforcement.AI should accelerate structure, synthesis, and distribution, but creativity, empathy, and strategic leaps must remain human-led.The future of roles may shift from titles like “PM” or “CX manager” to value-driven specialties like adoption and engagement.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Steve Cleff and Prismatic Vision02:25 What product gets wrong about customer experience05:39 How CX and product can work better together10:42 Where CX should sit in an organization13:41 Making product more experience-forward16:25 Marketing, value perception, and product failure18:06 Who owns the customer journey?22:49 Why journeys rarely exist before you build them24:20 What AI changes - and what stays human33:00 What to offload to AI vs. keep human40:01 From AI skeptic to AI advocate47:40 Preventing AI from amplifying bad CX decisions50:01 The future of product and CX rolesLinkedInSteve CleffJochem van der Veer

What if 2026 isn’t the year of the agentic enterprise?Most predictions paint 2026 as the moment AI suddenly takes over customer experience end to end. Autonomous agents. Self-driving journeys. Overnight transformation. In this Insights video, Jochem challenges that narrative - and argues the real shift is quieter, slower, and far more operational than the hype suggests. The risk for leaders isn’t moving too slowly - it’s aiming their CX strategy at a future that hasn’t arrived yet.In this video:Why 2026 is about agent adoption - not agentic transformationHow narrow agents quietly reshape CX work at the edges of journeysWhy data validation becomes the real bottleneck for AI in CXHow CX teams shift from insight production to stewarding trustWhen asynchronous AI work changes the pace and depth of decision-makingIf speed is no longer the advantage, what does it mean to scale trust instead?Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com#CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #ExperienceDesign #CXLeadership #AIinCX #DecisionMaking #OrganizationalDesign #SystemsThinking #ProductStrategy #ExperienceStrategy

Why executives nod at journey management - and then do nothingLeaders rarely push back on customer centricity - it sounds sensible, even obvious - yet that agreement is often exactly where journey management quietly stalls. In this Insights video, Jochem reflects on why the issue isn’t resistance but misunderstanding: journey management is still framed as a belief or a set of maps, when in reality it represents an operating model shift that changes prioritisation, coordination, ownership, and metrics. The moment those implications become clear, the nodding stops, and that gap between agreement and impact is where most journey work dies. By reframing journey management as a coordination system rather than a CX deliverable, this reflection shows why a single pitch never works - and why connecting the language to what different leaders actually care about is the only way to move from concept to practice.In this video:Why customer centricity is easy to agree with but hard to operationaliseHow journey management shifts decision-making, not just documentationWhy functional leaders and P&L owners need fundamentally different translationsHow journey management reduces chaos for teams - and reveals growth constraints for the businessWhat “executive empathy” really means when pitching customer journeysIf journey management keeps getting polite agreement but little traction, what are leaders actually hearing when you explain it?Follow Jochem on LinkedInLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com

Suchi Parikh is a creative director and storyteller with a rare blend of design craft and business fluency. After a decade at Apple leading global sales content, she now serves as Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she helps bring complex product innovation to life across agent commerce, Venmo, and global payments. Her work sits at the intersection of empathy, clarity, and persuasion - translating complexity into stories that move people to act.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Suchi unpacks why every presentation is an act of persuasion, how teams unintentionally dump complexity on their audience, and what it really takes to transform someone from awareness to action. Together, they explore practical frameworks for simplifying stories, designing for emotional shifts in customer journeys, and building trust through intentional storytelling.Guest BioSuchi Parikh is a creative leader and Director of Storytelling at PayPal, where she shapes how product innovation is communicated across global payments and commerce experiences. Previously, she spent over 10 years at Apple as a Group Creative Director, leading global sales content and executive storytelling.With a background in animation, design, and business, Suchi specializes in helping organizations clarify their thinking, reduce cognitive load, and communicate ideas with conviction. She is known for bridging creative storytelling with strategic business outcomes, and for mentoring teams to become more confident, intentional storytellers.Key TakeawaysEvery presentation is an act of persuasion, even routine business updates.Complexity is the storyteller’s responsibility, not the audience’s burden.Great business stories start with one clear intention, often anchored in a single word.Emotional state matters as much as functional clarity in customer journeys.Trust is built through simplicity, sequencing, and empathy, not more information.Chapters00:00 Introduction and background01:32 From design to business storytelling at Apple04:28 Why business presentations fail despite good data07:13 Every presentation as an act of persuasion09:56 A simple structure for clearer business stories12:58 Removing cognitive load and the one-word anchor19:50 Why having a point of view matters25:10 Audience Context Transformation (ACT) framework28:50 Emotional states in everyday customer journeys35:30 Operationalizing storytelling in large organizations40:24 Why energy matters more than logic44:10 Practicing storytelling in safe environments47:25 The role of a Director of Storytelling48:56 Rules, frameworks, and when to break them50:55 Learning from unexpected great storytellersLinkedIn ProfilesGuest - Suchi ParikhHost - Jochem 𝐖𝐀𝐓𝐂𝐇 𝐎𝐔𝐑 𝐎𝐓𝐇𝐄𝐑 𝐕𝐈𝐃𝐄𝐎𝐒: • Why Journey Management Is Really Organizat... • Why Collapsing CX Into Customer Service Br... • Organizing CX around what matters. - Angel... • Reflections 6 Why CX teams may be erasin... 𝐒𝐔𝐁𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐈𝐏𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊: https://www.theydo.com/podcasts/subsc... / @theexperienceedgepodcast Thank You For Watching

What if removing friction is ruining your customer experience?Everyone in CX wants to make things effortless. Fast. Smooth. Seamless. But in this Reflections episode, Jochem explores a provocative idea from his conversation with Sam Stern (Service Design Lead at LinkedIn): not all friction is bad - some friction creates memory, meaning, and better decisions.We unpack the difference between good friction and bad friction, with real examples from LinkedIn, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, IKEA, nightclubs, and Todd Unger’s work at the AMA. The goal isn’t to eliminate all effort - it’s to design effort where it matters most.In this video:Why some friction helps customers think clearly and choose betterHow friction creates emotional contrast and memorable momentsWhen organizational drag ruins customer experienceThe 4 types of customer journeys and how friction plays a roleHow to tell if your friction serves the customer - or your orgFollow Jochem on LinkedIn: @jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com#CustomerExperience #FrictionDesign #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #ExperienceDesign #ServiceDesign #DecisionMaking #EmotionalDesign #OrganizationalDrag #MemoryDesign #CustomerCentricity #BehavioralDesign #ExperienceArchitecture #SamStern #TheyDo

Are journey maps just artifacts or operating systems in disguise?In this episode, Jochem reflects on his conversation with Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, to explore how journey management becomes true organizational design.Dan's team didn’t just improve customer journeys - they restructured how decisions get made across teams. From building a “Journey Atlas” as a shared schema, to using immersive experiences to rewire executive thinking, their work signals a deeper shift: journey management isn’t about prettier maps. It’s about embedding customer thinking into the operating model.In this video:Why journey management = organizational designHow CSG created a decision-making nervous systemThe role of schema, structure, and centralized governanceWhat 500 people experienced inside the “journey museum”Signs your journey maps are shaping strategy—not just workshopsFollow Jochem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com

Charissa Riddle, Senior Director of Experience Design and Customer Experience Strategy and former EA executive, brings over two decades of experience spanning Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay. Known for operating at the intersection of design, operations, and strategy, Charissa has led global teams serving tens of millions of customers and players, tackling challenges like toxic behavior, self-service at scale, and embedding customer insight into decision-making.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Charissa reframes customer experience as a system rather than a department. They explore why CX loses power when it becomes too broad, how experience should be defined through actionable containers, and why stewardship of customer truth is the one responsibility CX leaders should never give away. Together, they unpack how governance, storytelling, and decision-making rituals determine whether CX drives real business impact or remains a reporting function.Guest BioCharissa Riddle is a senior experience design and customer experience strategy leader with more than 20 years of experience across gaming, fintech, and marketplaces. Formerly at Electronic Arts, PayPal, and eBay, she has led global teams focused on experience design, service strategy, and operational transformation at scale. Charissa is known for her systems-level thinking, her ability to align cross-functional stakeholders, and her focus on turning customer insight into measurable business outcomes.Key TakeawaysCustomer experience loses effectiveness when it is defined too broadly and without clear ownership or scope.CX works best as a system that connects interactions, emotions, and business outcomes across teams.Experiences should be defined in clear containers with entry points, exit points, and measurable impact.Metrics should be built from the experience outward, not imposed top-down as abstract efficiency measures.Stewardship of customer truth, journeys, and decision-making governance is a non-negotiable CX responsibility.Chapters00:00 Introduction and framing CX beyond customer service03:30 Why CX originated in service and why that still matters06:16 CX as a mindset, function, or system08:22 Defining experience as interactions that create emotion11:32 Connecting emotion, loyalty, and business outcomes18:06 Why CX definitions fail when they get too big21:15 Accountability, containers, and governance25:12 Making journeys tangible for leaders29:30 Storytelling that drives decisions31:47 Building a journey atlas at scale35:36 Moving from metric-driven to experience-driven measurement40:10 Centralization vs studio autonomy44:47 Business goals vs customer-led change46:04 Decision-making rituals and CX influence51:48 Cross-functional focus and the toxicity example57:59 What CX leaders should never give awayLinkedIn ProfilesCharissa RiddleJochem van der Veer

Martha Cotton, Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, brings 25 years of experience bridging anthropology, design, and enterprise transformation. Known for helping large organizations understand people, navigate change, and design for adoption, Martha shares how empathy, collaboration, and partnership shape modern design leadership.In this episode, she and Jochem explore how designers can speak the language of business, why data partnerships matter, and what it really takes to drive customer centricity inside legacy organizations. They examine the future of journey management, organizational transformation, and how AI will reshape creative work.Guest BioMartha Cotton is Managing Director at JPMorgan Chase, where she leads design research and drives customer centricity across one of the world’s largest financial institutions. With a background in cultural anthropology, she has built a career spanning boutique studios, global consultancies, and enterprise design leadership.Her work focuses on designing for adoption, shaping change inside complex organizations, and elevating design as a strategic partner to the business. Martha is also an educator and long-standing contributor to the Ethnographic Praxis in Industry community.TakeawaysDesigning for adoption ensures experiences deliver sustained customer and business value.Design leaders must articulate impact in business terms, not just craft terms.Organizational change succeeds when it’s driven top down, bottom up, and radiating from the middle.Strong partnerships between design and data unlock measurable outcomes and credibility.Journey management becomes transformative when supported by diverse data and cross-functional collaboration.Chapters 00:00 Setup and warm up 02:27 Intro to Martha Cotton 03:44 Martha’s career through line 05:46 Why empathy still matters in business 08:17 Skills needed to thrive in complex enterprises 12:04 Craft, business impact, and designing for adoption 14:42 How design leadership is evolving 16:37 The rise and pitfalls of design thinking 19:58 Making new ways of working stick 22:11 Breaking the glass ceiling for design 25:23 Moving from order taking to partnership 28:53 Charm offensive and influencing without disruption 30:57 Learning business context the hard way 32:40 Early days of digital transformation 33:45 Making transformation stick in enterprises 35:04 Top down, bottom up, and middle-out change 39:32 The challenge of creating opportunities inside enterprises 44:00 Design and data partnerships 47:26 The evolution of journey management 49:29 Data-enabled journeys and organizational reality 54:41 What Martha wishes she could change 55:47 Thinking about AI as a creative partner 58:29 Where to find MarthaLinkedInGuest: Martha Cotton Host Jochem van der Veer

Most CX teams struggle to show ROI because they’re looking in the wrong place. CX isn’t just one metric and it was never meant to be. As Jochem van der Veer explains, leaders don’t fund sentiment… they fund outcomes.In this episode, Jochem breaks down the three ROI lenses every mature CX organization uses to quantify impact across the business: customer outcomes, operational efficiency, and strategic influence, and how they work together to reveal the full-stack value of customer experience.If you want CX to be taken seriously, stop defending it with dashboards and start showing how the system behaves differently because of the way you work.What You’ll LearnHow to measure and prove CX impact through three enterprise-wide signals:Customer Outcomes. How reduced churn, faster time-to-value, and increased cross-sell/upsell probabilities drive revenue growthOperational Efficiency. How fixing upstream friction cuts avoidable support volume, eliminates duplication of work, and reduces delay-driven wasteStrategic Influence. How journey alignment accelerates prioritization, decision-making, and cross-functional clarityYou’ll walk away with a practical, system-level view of CX ROI that product, finance, and executive teams actually believe.KEYWORDSbusiness value of customer experience, customer experience ROI, CX strategy, customer retention, brand loyalty, experience management, CX metrics, customer insights, customer journey, customer feedback, business strategy, ROI, CX leadership, CX design, simon sinek, user experience, customer satisfaction, business growth, value proposition, customer service, customer relationships, marketing strategyWatch next:Bill’s full conversation on The Experience Edge podcast (link below). • Experience starts with the CFO – Bill StaikosSubscribe for more on journey management, CX strategy, and operationalizing customer-centricity at scale.Like, comment, and share with your team if you’re ready to move from dashboards to boardrooms.CONNECT WITH US:Website: https://www.theydo.com/LinkedIn: https://theydo-journey-managementTwitter: https://x.com/TheyDoHQ

Sam Stern, Service Design Lead at LinkedIn and longtime CX thinker, joins TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer to explore how journeys, data, and behavioral science shape memorable experiences. With a background spanning Forrester, New Balance, and his own CX Patterns podcast, Sam reveals why perfection is overrated and why some friction, when engineered well, can actually deepen customer value.They dig into good friction, employee experience design, cross-silo collaboration, and how AI is reshaping research workflows. Sam challenges long held CX doctrines, offering a fresh lens on how to create experiences that customers remember and teams can deliver with confidence.Guest BioSam Stern is the Service Design Lead at LinkedIn, where he focuses on improving the employee and customer facing experiences that power the platform’s global ecosystem. Before LinkedIn, Sam spent nearly 16 years as a Principal Analyst at Forrester, shaping industry thinking on customer experience. He has also led CX at New Balance and is the creator of the CX Patterns podcast and newsletter. Sam is known for blending behavioral science, service design, and practical business insight to help organizations craft experiences that matter.Key TakeawaysGood friction can enhance memorability when intentionally designed, contrasted with the CX habit of removing all friction.Behavioral science principles like anticipation, contrast, and peak moments remain underused in customer experience design.Service design at LinkedIn prioritizes improving the employee experience for 12,000+ customer facing roles to strengthen customer outcomes.Journey readouts become dramatically more effective when grounded in video evidence from real users.AI accelerates research workflows but amplifies, rather than replaces, human judgment and context setting.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Sam Stern 02:00 Why another CX book 05:00 The concept of good friction 08:30 When friction helps and when it harms 12:00 Ethical considerations in engineered friction 16:00 How service design operates inside LinkedIn 21:00 Secrets to effective journey readouts 24:00 Helping product teams see beyond their scope 26:45 How prioritization works across product and CX 29:00 Journey atlas and cross org context 32:00 Blending CX, UX, and service design roles 35:00 Business impact and full stack builder 39:00 AI’s role in research and insight development 43:00 Can AI ever understand context 49:00 The future of service design and CX 58:00 Why silos aren’t going away 59:00 Where to find SamLinkedInFollow Sam Stern: Post on Good Friction Post on Book announcement Follow Jochem van der Veer:

After more than 20 years at Philips, Tina Lilje knows what it takes to make customer experience more than a metric. As former Global Head of Customer Experience, she built a CX strategy across 100+ countries and 75,000 employees—connecting the dots between service, design, and leadership.In this episode, Tina and TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer explore how healthcare is embracing AI without losing its human touch. From fixing design flaws that cost millions to turning executives into customer sponsors, Tina shares why the most successful CX strategies start with root causes, not dashboards—and why humans will always be healthcare’s most valuable premium.Guest BioTina Lilje is the former Global Head of Customer Experience at Philips, where she led the company’s global CX transformation across healthcare and B2B markets. Over two decades, she moved from marketing and M&A to executive CX leadership, designing a customer-first strategy spanning more than 100 countries. Known for operationalizing CX and aligning global teams around root-cause improvement, Tina now advises organizations on embedding customer-centric thinking that actually sticks.Key TakeawaysFix root causes, not symptoms: Sustainable CX impact comes from addressing systemic design flaws, not surface-level issues.AI in healthcare needs humans: Technology should enhance, not replace, human care, especially in regulated, high-stakes industries.Customer voice is the strongest lever: Bringing real customer stories into leadership discussions drives alignment and urgency.KPIs must match behavior: Incentives shape culture, customer goals only work when bonuses, priorities, and structures reinforce them.Consistency beats perfection: True CX excellence lies in reliability, authenticity, and operational follow-through.Episode Chapters00:00 Welcome and introduction 03:00 Why humans are a premium in healthcare’s AI era 06:00 Balancing innovation with regulation in clinical settings 09:50 How small CX fixes drive major impact 14:30 Discovering the “detector” moment: fixing root causes 18:00 Turning CX from a program into a lasting function 25:00 Finding mentors and building CX leadership credibility 33:00 Creating partnerships, not transactions, with customers 41:00 Why NPS failed and what replaced it 48:20 Embedding CX across functions and KPIs 52:00 Aligning around customer realities, not silos 56:00 Incentives, ownership, and the human factor 01:04:00 When to go “all in” on CX, and when not to 01:06:30 Tina’s next chapter and closing thoughtsLinkedIn ProfilesFollow Tina Lilje: Follow Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo):

Can AI actually help you understand your customers - or is it just noise at scale?As teams lean into AI to handle discovery work, it’s tempting to treat all insights as equal. But not all research sources are created equal - and AI isn’t great at everything.In this episode, Jochem Van Der Veer breaks down where AI actually supports discovery... and where it silently sabotages it. This is a guide for anyone using AI to scale research, sift through feedback, or make sense of customer data.What You’ll Learn: • A side-by-side breakdown of 8 key research sources - and where AI helps (or fails) • Why AI performs well on written support data but fails to read tone, sarcasm, or urgency • How AI misses the intent behind interviews - and why that matters for product decisions • The danger of over-trusting CRM notes, sales transcripts, and survey sentiment without context • How to combine AI-assisted insights with human nuance to get to real customer truthFollow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedInLearn more about Journey Management with TheyDo

Dan Sullivan, Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, has transformed how a major healthcare company connects business outcomes to customer experience. With a background spanning customer success, strategy, and design, Dan has built an enterprise-wide journey management practice that brings data, insights, and teams together to act as one.In this conversation with TheyDo’s Jochem van der Veer, Dan shares how CHG made journey management tangible, through immersive storytelling, data integration, and co-creation across teams. He reveals how to align CX with business strategy, balance customer obsession with outcomes, and create organizational change that lasts beyond the latest initiative.Guest BioDan Sullivan is the Director of Journey Management at CHG Healthcare, where he leads the development and implementation of a company-wide journey management practice. His work bridges customer insight, product design, and business strategy to drive measurable impact. Prior to CHG, Dan led customer success at TheyDo and held strategic roles across startups and global enterprises. Known for his creative storytelling and systems thinking, he’s helping redefine how large organizations use journey management to become truly customer-led.Top TakeawaysJourney management is not about the artifact, it’s about changing how decisions are made across teams.Start with awareness, not solutions: make the problem visible before promoting the framework.Balance customer and business goals: customer obsession means nothing without measurable impact.Immersive storytelling drives adoption: CHG’s “journey museum” helped hundreds of employees walk in their customer’s shoes.Keep adapting: journey management is a living system, not a one-time rollout.Chapters00:00 Introducing Dan Sullivan and CHG Healthcare 02:12 Why it’s not about the journey itself 04:40 Customer centricity and business alignment 08:46 Balancing customer obsession with business goals 10:28 Finding gaps and building the case for journeys 13:20 Why CHG chose a journey-led approach 16:42 Connecting teams through shared journeys 18:48 Building an immersive journey experience 25:13 The impact of the immersive launch 29:19 From solution awareness to problem awareness 31:37 Making data meaningful, not just measurable 34:43 Using journeys as a decision-making tool 36:30 Keeping journey maps simple but powerful 40:38 Helping experience teams understand business impact 44:12 Organizational changes and long-term shifts 48:33 Embedding journeys into OKRs 52:14 Navigating resistance and scaling adoption 54:30 Governance, ownership, and design systems 58:18 Building ownership across teams 01:00:43 Advice to younger self and closing thoughtsLinkedIn ProfilesDan Sullivan (CHG Healthcare) Jochem van der Veer (TheyDo)