The Integrated Schools Podcast

What does it mean to outlast backlash? In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Danielle Wingfield—legal historian, law professor, and public education advocate—whose work sits at the intersection of history, civil rights, democracy, and family. Together, we trace the long arc of resistance to public education, from enslavement and segregation to today’s fights over curriculum, parental rights, and school privatization. Dr. Wingfield helps us see that what feels overwhelming right now isn’t new—it’s cyclical. And that clarity matters. When we understand the playbook, we can respond with intention instead of panic. We talk about: The history of massive resistance—and why today’s attacks on public education are part of a much longer project How curriculum control, “parental rights,” and privatization have been used before to maintain racial hierarchy Why public schools remain essential to democracy—and why they’re being targeted so aggressively What “home place” looks like: community care, shared responsibility, mutual aid, and kinship beyond bloodlines Why progress always brings backlash—and why staying power is how movements win This conversation is both grounding and galvanizing. It reminds us that we don’t have to solve everything—but we dohave to hold our link in the chain. Because when we know our history, we’re harder to divide. And when we stay together long enough, we change what’s possible. LINKS: The Resurgence of Massive Resistance - Washington and Lee Law Journal - https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/wlulr/vol82/iss1/6/ Teachers in the Movement - Oral history project - https://teachersinthemovement.com/ First Class Project - documentary series - https://www.firstclassseries.com/ Homeplace (A Site of Resistance) - bell hooks - https://files.libcom.org/files/hooks-reading-1.pdf Henry L. Marsh III  - First Black mayor of Richmond, VA & civil rights attorney - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_L._Marsh Oliver W. Hill  - Civil rights attorney - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hill_%28attorney%29 Barbara Rose Johns - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Rose_Johns Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Join the conversation by registering for one of our upcoming Book Club sessions! The Integrated Schools Podcast returns with a great conversation with Emily Ladau, disability rights activist and author of Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to be an Ally. Ladau describes herself as "passionate about having conversations about disability and really engaging people to talk about a topic that they might otherwise feel uncomfortable with and really making it approachable and accessible to them." In the spirit of Dr. Loretta Ross, she models what it means to call people in: to meet other people where they are and offer them a bridge to understanding the lived reality - or rather, realities - of the over a billion people around the world who have some type of disability. Ladau takes an approach that is at once gracious and practical. "In order to be effective advocates for any kind of social justice, we first need the tools and the resources and the understanding, but often we are not socialized to think about disability at all... I don't want people to feel so worried about making a mistake that they don't get involved in the conversation in the first place; [nor] to get bogged down in specific rules, but… to have a working knowledge so that you feel like you belong in the broader work.” This conversation brings up the parallels between combating White supremacy and combating ableism, and the interplay between the two. Ladau points out that we can't fight back against either racism or ableism by keeping these issues siloed -especially because disability is an identity that cuts across all other identity groups. "It's also pretty much one of the only marginalized communities that anybody can join at any time. And I always say, you know, that's not a threat. We're cool, we're fun." LINKS: Join Book Club!! - https://integratedschools.org/book-club/ Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to be an Ally - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781984858979 Emily's website - emilyladau.com Words I Wheel By - Emily's Substack - https://emilyladau.substack.com/ The 504 Sit In - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/504_Sit-in S12E6 - Calling In with Loretta Ross - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e6-calling-in-with-loretta-ross/ Calling In - Dr. Loretta Ross's book -https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781982190798 Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

As we come to the end of 2025, we wanted to pause together—to reflect on a year that has been emotionally heavy, nationally turbulent, and deeply personal for both of us. This year, our families have been in the midst of big transitions. We talk about what it’s been like to launch a child toward adulthood, to navigate new middle and high schools, and to sit with the uncertainty that comes with parenting when the stakes feel so high. We reflect on the school choices we’ve made—often outside the bounds of prestige or promise—and what it feels like, years later, to see our kids growing, learning, struggling, and coming out whole. We also hold the broader context of 2025. We name the ways the world feels like it’s unraveling: ICE raids disrupting communities and schools, cuts to public institutions, and the cumulative weight our young people are carrying after growing up through a pandemic and so much instability. This conversation doesn’t rush past the grief. We sit with it—and remind ourselves that survival, community, and care are not small things. They are strategies. Looking back on this season, we revisit conversations that shaped us—from Byron Sanders on identity and purpose, to Raising Antiracist Kids on honest conversations with our children, to Keri Rodrigues and Loretta Ross on calling people in and refusing to let our link in the chain break. Again and again, we return to the truth that none of us can do this work alone. The episode closes with reflections from our first-ever in-person Integrated Schools gathering in Columbus, Ohio. Bringing together people from across the country to hold space, share meals, sing, grieve, laugh, and recommit to this work reminded us of what is possible when we are physically together. Through voice memos from participants, we hear what it means to feel less alone—and more grounded—at a moment when the pendulum feels far away from justice. Ten years into the life of Integrated Schools, this episode is both a reckoning and a reminder: We are still here. And we’re not going anywhere. Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. (https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools) Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. (https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools) Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We’re joined by MacArthur “Genius” and legendary activist Dr. Loretta Ross for a conversation that left us grounded, challenged, and deeply moved. From her early work in reproductive justice and anti-violence movements, to her current mission disrupting “call-out culture,” Dr. Ross offers us a path forward rooted in grace, accountability, and radical love. We explore what it means to “call in” rather than call out—especially in an era where public shaming feels ever-present and social media rewards outrage. Dr. Ross shares her personal story of trauma, healing, and transformation, and helps us understand how real change happens not through perfection or purity, but through connection and curiosity. Together we unpack the power of holding ourselves and others accountable without dehumanizing. We talk parenting, public schools, and what it means to stay in the struggle without breaking our link in the “chain of freedom.” Whether you’re navigating tricky conversations in your school community or trying to show up better in the fight for justice, this episode is for you. LINKS: Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel - Dr. Ross's new book (https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781982190798) What If Instead of Calling People Out, We Called Them In? - NY Times Article about Dr. Ross's work (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/style/loretta-ross-smith-college-cancel-culture.html?smid=url-share&unlocked_article_code=1.5k8.FdWT.To52fmpJVCqh) What Is A Good Parent? Blog post by NY Chapter member, Meredith Winfrey (https://integratedschools.org/what-is-a-good-parent/) Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy - Dr. Elizabeth McRae (https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780190088392) Ep 11 – White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy - Dr. McRae's 1st time on our show (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcrae/) S5E14 - White Supremacy and Black Educational Excellence - Dr. McRae's 2nd time on our show (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ncsd/) Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. 9https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools) Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. (https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools) Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, we’re stretching the boundaries of our “big tent”—the messy, hopeful space where we try to build a public education system worthy of all our kids. We sat down with Ms. Keri Rodrigues, President and co-founder of the National Parents Union, for a conversation recorded inside the U.S. Senate building (a first for us!). Ms. Rodrigues brings her whole self into this work: mother, organizer, daughter of immigrants, former student who didn’t always get what she needed from school, and fierce believer in the power of parents showing up together. While the methods of school improvement NPU has advocated for the in the past may not have felt fully aligned with our values, we share a commitment to the common good of public education—and in a moment when that institution feels increasingly under attack, widening the circle of who we can struggle with feels essential. In This Episode We Explore: Parent voice as expertise Why parents—especially those who’ve historically been pushed to the margins—carry knowledge that our systems often ignore, and what’s lost when family engagement is treated as transactional rather than transformational. The conditions that fuel fear-based parent movements Ms. Rodrigues offers a nuanced take on how groups like Moms for Liberty gained traction, and how a lack of authentic, respectful engagement with parents created space for bad actors to step in. Trust between families and schools What it means to leave “our hearts outside our bodies” every morning, and the very real fears that get activated when schools feel unwelcoming, dismissive, or unsafe—especially for Black, Brown, immigrant, and disabled students and their families. The broader crisis facing children From ICE raids to unregulated social media to defunding the Department of Education, Ms. Rodrigues paints a sobering picture of what American childhood looks like right now—and why focusing narrowly on academics misses the full context our kids are living in. Possibility inside the “messy middle” How unlikely coalitions (even with people we once vowed to “never work with”) can still form around shared values like literacy, safety, and teacher pay—and why bipartisan hope isn’t naïve, but necessary. Our own expectations of school After the interview, Val and Andrew reflect on power, privilege, trust, and the complicated dance between advocating for our kids and caring for all kids—work that sits at the very heart of public education in a multiracial democracy. Why This Conversation Matters If we truly believe that public schools are foundational to a functioning democracy, then we need a tent big enough to hold disagreement, nuance, and shared purpose. Not a tent where we water down our values or ignore harm, but one spacious enough for collective problem-solving. As Ms. Rodrigues reminds us, movements built on love endure longer than movements built on fear. And right now, our kids need us rooted in love. Join the Conversation Where do you see yourself in this big tent? What are your expectations for parent voice? How do you advocate as a parent or caregiver? How do you build (or rebuild) trust with your child’s school? Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What happens when over 600 educators, students, organizers, and advocates gather in community to center racial equity and storytelling? We found out at this year’s Color of Education Summit in Raleigh, North Carolina. In this episode, Andrew takes us inside the summit—hosted by the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity—to hear voices from across the state and country. From keynote speeches to hallway conversations, we witness the power of stories to connect, inspire, and catalyze change. We hear from Dr. Deanna Townsend-Smith, who set the tone with vulnerability, legacy, and a call to collective action. And we meet educators, community leaders, organizers, and students whose stories underscore that equity work is personal, communal, and ongoing. Dr. Val and Andrew reflect on what it really means to talk about equity—and how we move beyond “access” to ensure all children can truly thrive. If you’re wondering what role stories play in building a better future, or where to find hope in hard times, this one’s for you. 🎧 Listen in, and then tell us: What story are you carrying? (http://speakpipe.com/integratedschools) LINKS Color of Education 2025 - https://floodcenter.org/2025/a-recap-of-the-color-of-education-summit-recognizing-the-power-in-the-stories-we-carry/ Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity - https://floodcenter.org/ Tara Roberts - Into the Depths (Podcast) - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/podcasts/into-the-depths I Am Leandro Project - https://www.iamleandro.org/ Profound Gentlemen - https://www.profoundgentlemen.org/ Public Schools First NC - http://publicschoolsfirstnc.org/ Public School Forum of North Carolina - https://www.ncforum.org/ Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Share your thoughts by leaving us a voice mail - speakpipe.com/integratedschools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We’re sharing a special crossover: Dr. Val and Andrew join Tabitha St. Bernard-Jacobs and Adam Jacobs, co-hosts of the Raising Antiracist Kids podcast, to talk about parents as partners in building antiracist school communities. We dig into why relationships—especially across lines of race and class—are core to any multiracial democracy, what it looks like for White families to show up without centering themselves, and how we nurture brave, durable school communities together. Along the way, we sit with discomfort, model grace, and keep our eyes on the long game—this is a marathon relay, and we each carry the baton for a bit. LINKS: Raising Antiracist Kids - Tabitha & Adam's substack (http://raisingantiracistkids.com/) The Raising Antiracist Kids Podcast - (https://podnews.net/podcast/izj6q) White Parents, You Can't Support Black Lives Matter & Start A Private Learning Pod- Tabitha's article for Romper back in 2020 (https://www.romper.com/p/how-can-learning-pods-be-equitable-they-cant-31259912) Dr. Val's online organizing #ClearTheAir (https://www.valbrownedu.com/clear-the-air) IntegrateNYC's 5R's of Real Integration (https://integratenyc.org/platform) Bettina Love on the spirit murdering of Black children (https://bettinalove.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Anti-Black-state-violence-classroom-edition-The-spirit-murdering-of-Black-children.pdf) S11E14 – What Was Lost: Noliwe Rooks on the Failures of Integration (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e14-what-was-lost-noliwe-rooks-on-the-failures-of-integration/) S7E2 – Moving and Choosing a School- Dr. Val's 2nd episode on the podcast (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/moving/) Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. (https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools) Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. (https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools) Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What does it mean to truly know who you are—and how might that knowing shape what you give back to the world? In this episode, we’re joined by Byron Sanders—educator, CEO, community leader, and newly elected Dallas ISD school board member—for a vulnerable, expansive conversation about identity, purpose, and the responsibility that comes with our gifts. Byron shares a deeply personal story of finding his way from trauma to mission, from being driven by what he didn’t want to become to discovering a life of service rooted in community. Alongside reflections on masculinity, Whiteness, and the narratives we inherit (and resist), Byron challenges us to consider the roles we each play in building a more just and joyful future—both in and beyond schools. We talk about the power of imagination as a source of hope, the need for purpose-driven education, and the importance of community-based “third spaces” where young people can build the skills and self-understanding they’ll need to navigate an uncertain future. And we explore the dangers of narrow identity constructs—especially for boys and men—and the urgent need for models that reflect a fuller humanity. This conversation is a reminder that our stories matter, that restorative possibility lives in community, and that every gift is also an assignment. LINKS: Byron Sanders - https://www.linkedin.com/in/byron-k-sanders/ The Creator Archetype from Big Thought - https://www.bigthought.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/CREATOR-ARCHETYPE.pdf bell hooks - The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780743480338 Richard Reeves - Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780815740667 Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Additional music Uncertain Ground and Black Mud by Blue Dot Sessions(http://sessions.blue) Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

As we launch Season 12 of the podcast, Dr. Val and Andrew reflect on the start of the school year. With big personal transitions, and the country in a state of deep uncertainty, we ask, what now? How can we acknowledge the current state of eduction and find ways to act for justice. LINKS: Parents as Partners: Building Antiracist School Communities - Dr. Val and Andrew on the Raising Antiracist Kids Podcast (https://www.raisingantiracistkids.com/podcast) Big, Beautiful Monstrosity . . . And a call to action - Blog post from this summer about the budget bill creating a national voucher program. (https://integratedschools.org/big-beautiful-monstrosity-and-a-call-to-action/) Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. (https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools) Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. (https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools) Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook (https://facebook.com/integratedschools), or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism is the Integrated Schools Book Club http://integratedschools.org/book-club/ pick for the fall. So we thought we'd revisit our episode with Dr. Ewing. If you've never attended Book Club, it's a wonderful to chance to chat with folks from around the country who are interested in school integration. We have small groups and great facilitators who make sure the conversation flows. Book Club is free! Register now! - http://integratedschools.org/book-club/ ------------------------- Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields, and our best tool to create active, engaged citizens. And while that vision is powerful, Dr. Eve L. Ewing argues that it was never intended to be those things for Black or Native students. In fact, her new book, Original Sins: The (MIs)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism, maintains that schooling in America was created to prepare White kids for leadership, Black kids for subjugation, and Native kids for erasure. She joins us to discuss these three separate strands of education and the tools of discipline and punishment, implied intellectual inferiority, and preparation for economic subjugation used to support them. She leaves us with love, justice and a focus on flourishing as possible antidotes to help us imagine something better. LINKS: Ghosts in the Schoolyard: Racism and School Closings on Chicago's South Side - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780226526164 Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of AmericanRacism - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593243701 Bughouse Square - Eve Ewing's Podcast with co-ghost, Studs Terkel - https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/bughouse-square Faith Ringgold - United States of Attica, 1971 - https://whitney.org/collection/works/44678 Gwendolyn Brooks - We Real Cool - https://poets.org/poem/we-real-cool How Watermelons Became a Racist Trope - William R. Black in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/how-watermelons-became-a-racist-trope/383529/ The Abigail Fisher case - https://www.propublica.org/article/a-colorblind-constitution-what-abigail-fishers-affirmative-action-case-is-r Project a Black Planet: The Art and Culture of Panafrica - currently at the Art Institute Chicago - https://www.artic.edu/exhibitions/10157/project-a-black-planet-the-art-and-culture-of-panafrica Braiding Sweetgrass - Robin Wall Kimmerer - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781571313560 S7E9 – Revisiting Heather McGhee on How Racism Hurts Us All - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

The president just signed a truly monstrous piece of legislation into law. Much has been written about the impacts on health, climate and the debt, but there is a lesser known evil lurking in this bill - a national school voucher plan. It's temping to lose hope, but there is something each of us can do. LINKS:  A blog post version of this episode. - https://integratedschools.org/big-beautiful-monstrosity-and-a-call-to-action/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

As Season 11 comes to a close, we wanted to spend some time reflecting on the lessons we've learned from this season and what we hope for in Season 12.  We'll be off for the summer with a few possible bonus episodes, and back for real in the fall.  In the mean time, we want to express our deepest appreciation for a number of people who make this podcast run.   Firstly, to all of our guests, thank you for joining us, for sharing your stories and your wisdom with us.  Being in conversation with each of you is a true gift that we do not take likely.   To the podcast team - Darci, Jennifer, Jenna, Anna, Susan, Courtney - thank you for your work on transcripts and promotional material, but more importantly for your thought partnership on each episode and the entire season.  The conversations you share, the insights you bring are what keeps the podcast relevant and topical and helps us dive into nuanced topics knowing you're listening and thinking about these things along side of us.   To our Patreon supporters and Integrated Schools donors, your belief in this work and your willingness to support it with your financial resources isn't something we take for granted.  Your belief in us keeps us invested in the work and motivates us to always make the best episodes we can.   And finally, to all of you, our listeners, it is truly and honor to be in this with each and every one of you as we try to know better and do better.  Until next season! ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

“Having my children in public school was something that I wanted to do with people in my community. It was a commitment that we were making together. And then when I saw folks leaving, it felt like a betrayal.” – Stephanie Forman. Where we send our kids to school is, for many, a complicated decision. We struggle to weigh multiple factors- curriculum and teachers, diversity of the student body, the commute and hours, not to mention what role we want to play in supporting the institutions where our kids spend 8 hours a day. Drs. Stephanie Forman and Lisa Sibbett are educational researchers in the Pacific Northwest and both decided to send their kids to public schools after weighing many factors. However, they saw many of their colleagues, who were also working to support education, and also expressed a belief in the importance of public schools, opting out, and instead sending their kids to private schools. Rather than write these people off, they decided to use their educational research skills to better understand the choice these families were making, what the impact was for them, and their families, and what tools might be best suited to reconnect those families to public schools, whether by bringing their kids back, or, at a minimum, advocating on behalf of public education. They join us to share what they learned, and help us keep an open mind as we think about the choices people make for schooling. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Robin DiAngelo's Rules of Engagement for White Fragility - https://www.uua.org/files/pdf/d/diangelo-white_fragility_and_the_rules_of_engagement.pdf Lisa's Substack - The Auntie Bulletin - https://theauntie.substack.com/ S11E16 - Advocating for Black Educator Wellness with Asia Lyons - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e16-advocating-for-black-educator-wellness-with-asia-lyons/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

“I hope that you know that I believe you, the community of listeners believes you, and that's good enough.” Dr. Asia Lyons Dr. Asia Lyons is the host of 'The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators' where she practices archival justice by sharing the stories of Black educators who have left the classroom. Her own journey to education and then out of the classroom led her work both on the podcast, and in creating intentional spaces of healing for Black educators. Dr. Lyons's work focuses on the less sexy, but often more important work of retaining Black educators. Recruitment is a crucial starting point, but if we can't create spaces of wellness for Black educators, retention will always be a challenge. Dr. Lyons encourages all of us to speak up on behalf of Black educators, to create spaces of healing, and to advocate for justice at least as loudly as the voices who aren't. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/ William A Smith - who coined the term Racial Battle Fatigue - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u0173846 Taking Care and Moving Forward with Dr. LaShaune Stitt - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/taking-care-and-moving-forward-with-dr-lashaune-stitt/ Boundaries, Burnout and Black educator Wellness with Josephine Ampaw-Greene - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/boundaries-burnout-and-black-educator-wellness-with-josephine-ampaw-greene/ S11E14 – What Was Lost: Noliwe Rooks on the Failures of Integration - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e14-what-was-lost-noliwe-rooks-on-the-failures-of-integration/ S10E15 – Rebuilding The Black Educator Pipeline with Sharif El-Mekki - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e15-rebuilding-the-black-educator-pipeline-with-sharif-el-mekki/ S10E14 – Jim Crow’s Pink Slip with Dr. Leslie Fenwick - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e14-jim-crows-pink-slip-with-dr-leslie-fenwick/ S11E8 – Gratitude and Validation: One Family’s Journey Through Integrated Schools - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e8-gratitude-and-validation-one-familys-journey-through-integrated-schools/ S11E15 – Unearthing Joy: Gholdy Muhammad on Teaching with Love - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e15-unearthing-joy-gholdy-muhammad-on-teaching-with-love/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

"If we're not centering children’s humanity through love, there's no strategy, no professional book or instructional method in the world that can prepare the teacher to elevate the child." - Dr. Gholdy Muhammad Identity, skills, intellectualism, criticality, and joy. These are the five pursuits that Dr. Gholdy Muhammad argues are key to education. Our educational system focuses most of its attention on skills while often overlooking the other pursuits to the detriment of all kids. All people need to know who they are and whose they are, need to put the knowledge they gain into action, need to learn to distinguish between truth and lies, and to critically examine the stories we are told, and everyone needs joy. An education system, not to mention a society, that focuses on all five pursuits has the possibility of bringing out the genius in all of us. Underlying all of these pursuits is love. Dr. Muhammad joins us to discuss what teaching, parenting, and being part of community can look like with a focus on these pursuits. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Cultivating Genius: An Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781338594898 Unearthing Joy: A Guide to Culturally and Historically Responsive Curriculum and Instruction - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781338856606 The Secret Life of Plants - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780060915872 Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

“At its inception, in the courts, and as a project, integration was deeply contested and Black people were deeply divided about it. ” – Dr. Noliwe Rooks The common narrative about integration often frames it as a clear victory—a moment when American education finally confronted injustice. But Dr. Noliwe Rooks argues the reality is far more complicated. In her new book, Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children, she traces the history of Black education, showing how the pursuit of desegregation sometimes led to profound losses for Black communities. In this conversation, Dr. Rooks discusses the overlooked sacrifices Black communities made as schools integrated, from the closure of vibrant Black-led schools to the erasure of Black educators’ roles and perspectives. Through the story of 4 generations of her own family, she reveals how integration initiatives frequently dismissed Black voices and visions for education, leaving systemic inequities intact. This episode challenges us to rethink what integration truly means, and what’s required if education is to fulfill its promise of justice and liberation for all students. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now - https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780553387391 A Passionate Mind in Relentless Pursuit: The Vision of Mary McLeod Bethune - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593492420 Cutting School: The Segrenomics of American Education - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781620975985 S6E9 – BvB@67 – Noliwe Rooks Revisited – Dr. Rooks from our Brown v Board anniversary series - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s6e9-bvb67-noliwe-rooks-revisited/ S11E9: The Containment: Michelle Adams on Northern Jim Crow - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e9-the-containment-michelle-adams-on-northern-jim-crow/ No Choice Is the “Right” Choice: Black Parents’ Educational Decision-Making in Their Search for a “Good” School – Dr. Linn Posey-Maddox - https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/91/1/38/464262/No-Choice-Is-the-Right-Choice-Black-Parents?redirectedFrom=fulltext S10E14 – Jim Crow’s Pink Slip with Dr. Leslie Fenwick - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e14-jim-crows-pink-slip-with-dr-leslie-fenwick/ Ep 11 – White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcrae/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Last month, integration advocates from around the country gathered for the National Coalition on School Diversity's National Conference to discuss where we find ourselves in this difficult moment. From policy makers to researchers, school leaders to equity advocates, the conference featured many of the brightest minds focusing on how we build up and support an education system that serves all children well. Despite the challenges to education, especially public education, not to mention multiracial public education, attending the conference was inspiring and sustaining. To see several hundred people gather in the face of pushback to reaffirm our commitment to the project of integration provided much needed hope in troubling times. Today we share some conversations with folks from the conference who are committed to a better world and finding hope where they can. LINKS: The National Coalition on School Diversity - http://school-diversity.org/ S10E18 – The 70th Anniversary of Brown v Board – Do It Live! - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e18-the-70th-anniversary-of-brown-v-board-do-it-live/ S11E9: The Containment: Michelle Adams on Northern Jim Crow - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e9-the-containment-michelle-adams-on-northern-jim-crow/ NAACP LDF on The Dept of Ed's Dear Colleague Letter - https://www.naacpldf.org/education-department-anti-opportunity-letter-federal-funding/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - http://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - http://patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields, and our best tool to create active, engaged citizens. And while that vision is powerful, Dr. Eve L. Ewing argues that it was never intended to be those things for Black or Native students. In fact, her new book, Original Sins: The (MIs)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism, maintains that schooling in America was created to prepare White kids for leadership, Black kids for subjugation, and Native kids for erasure. She joins us to discuss these three separate strands of education and the tools of discipline and punishment, implied intellectual inferiority, and preparation for economic subjugation used to support them. She leaves us with love, justice and a focus on flourishing as possible antidotes to help us imagine something better. LINKS: Ghosts in the Schoolyard: Racism and School Closings on Chicago's South Side - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780226526164 Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of AmericanRacism - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593243701 Bughouse Square - Eve Ewing's Podcast with co-ghost, Studs Terkel - https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/bughouse-square Faith Ringgold - United States of Attica, 1971 - https://whitney.org/collection/works/44678 Gwendolyn Brooks - We Real Cool - https://poets.org/poem/we-real-cool How Watermelons Became a Racist Trope - William R. Black in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/how-watermelons-became-a-racist-trope/383529/ The Abigail Fisher case - https://www.propublica.org/article/a-colorblind-constitution-what-abigail-fishers-affirmative-action-case-is-r Project a Black Planet: The Art and Culture of Panafrica - currently at the Art Institute Chicago - https://www.artic.edu/exhibitions/10157/project-a-black-planet-the-art-and-culture-of-panafrica Braiding Sweetgrass - Robin Wall Kimmerer - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781571313560 S7E9 – Revisiting Heather McGhee on How Racism Hurts Us All - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

"To be White is, is to be raised on lies. Lies that are passed down, generationally that a lot of White folks don't always know that they're passing down." - Greg Jarrell Our guest today, Greg Jarrell is an ordained minister, a cultural organizer and the author of Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods. Through many years of building community while engaging in anti-racist learning, he has come to realize that he also has a stake in ending White supremacy, advancing racial justice, and building loving, multi-racial communities. He joins us to discuss the ongoing moral and intellectual deficiencies that come from Whiteness, the importance of intentional anti-racist education, and the need for material and cultural reparations. Jarrell emphasizes the necessity of developing multiracial coalitions and using one's advantages to dismantle systemic inequities, in order to face historical scars and work towards a more just society. LINKS: Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/97815064... QC Family Tree in Charlotte, NC - http://qcfamilytree.org/ The Redress Movement - https://redressmovement.org/ ICYMI: Seeing White - Our episode sharing clips from the Seeing White season from Scene on Radio https://integratedschools.org/podcast... S5E3 – Gifts We Didn’t Expect: Family, Faith, and Integration - our conversation with Albert - https://integratedschools.org/podcast... Charles Mills - The Racial Contract - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/97815017... Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedS... Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. / integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Omkari Williams believes deeply in the power of people to change their environments - that through the power of the human spirit, and small, concrete actions, anything is possible, and that true changes requires all types of people. Her recent book, Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without A Bullhorn, is a testament to this idea. In it, she lays out four activist archetypes - The Headliner, The Producer, The Organizer, and The Indispensable. All movements need all four types of activists, and everyone can find themselves in one or more of the archetypes. This view opens the door to anyone to participate, and the book gives concrete steps to take to figure out how to get involved in a way that leans in to each person's individual strengths. In a dark time, where hope can be hard to find, Ms. Williams brings a grounded sense of hope and possibility, along with actionable steps to changing our environments for the better. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: - Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without A Bullhorn - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781635866889 - Ms. Williams Podcast - Stepping Into Truth: Conversations on Social Justice and How We Get Free - https://www.steppingintotruth.com/ - Register for an Integrated Schools Book Club session! - https://integratedschools.org/book-club/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy