The Integrated Schools Podcast

What does it mean to truly know who you are—and how might that knowing shape what you give back to the world? In this episode, we’re joined by Byron Sanders—educator, CEO, community leader, and newly elected Dallas ISD school board member—for a vulnerable, expansive conversation about identity, purpose, and the responsibility that comes with our gifts. Byron shares a deeply personal story of finding his way from trauma to mission, from being driven by what he didn’t want to become to discovering a life of service rooted in community. Alongside reflections on masculinity, Whiteness, and the narratives we inherit (and resist), Byron challenges us to consider the roles we each play in building a more just and joyful future—both in and beyond schools. We talk about the power of imagination as a source of hope, the need for purpose-driven education, and the importance of community-based “third spaces” where young people can build the skills and self-understanding they’ll need to navigate an uncertain future. And we explore the dangers of narrow identity constructs—especially for boys and men—and the urgent need for models that reflect a fuller humanity. This conversation is a reminder that our stories matter, that restorative possibility lives in community, and that every gift is also an assignment. LINKS: Byron Sanders - https://www.linkedin.com/in/byron-k-sanders/ The Creator Archetype from Big Thought - https://www.bigthought.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/CREATOR-ARCHETYPE.pdf bell hooks - The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780743480338 Richard Reeves - Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780815740667 Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Additional music Uncertain Ground and Black Mud by Blue Dot Sessions(http://sessions.blue) Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

As we launch Season 12 of the podcast, Dr. Val and Andrew reflect on the start of the school year. With big personal transitions, and the country in a state of deep uncertainty, we ask, what now? How can we acknowledge the current state of eduction and find ways to act for justice. LINKS: Parents as Partners: Building Antiracist School Communities - Dr. Val and Andrew on the Raising Antiracist Kids Podcast (https://www.raisingantiracistkids.com/podcast) Big, Beautiful Monstrosity . . . And a call to action - Blog post from this summer about the budget bill creating a national voucher program. (https://integratedschools.org/big-beautiful-monstrosity-and-a-call-to-action/) Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. (https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools) Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. (https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools) Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook (https://facebook.com/integratedschools), or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism is the Integrated Schools Book Club http://integratedschools.org/book-club/ pick for the fall. So we thought we'd revisit our episode with Dr. Ewing. If you've never attended Book Club, it's a wonderful to chance to chat with folks from around the country who are interested in school integration. We have small groups and great facilitators who make sure the conversation flows. Book Club is free! Register now! - http://integratedschools.org/book-club/ ------------------------- Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields, and our best tool to create active, engaged citizens. And while that vision is powerful, Dr. Eve L. Ewing argues that it was never intended to be those things for Black or Native students. In fact, her new book, Original Sins: The (MIs)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism, maintains that schooling in America was created to prepare White kids for leadership, Black kids for subjugation, and Native kids for erasure. She joins us to discuss these three separate strands of education and the tools of discipline and punishment, implied intellectual inferiority, and preparation for economic subjugation used to support them. She leaves us with love, justice and a focus on flourishing as possible antidotes to help us imagine something better. LINKS: Ghosts in the Schoolyard: Racism and School Closings on Chicago's South Side - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780226526164 Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of AmericanRacism - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593243701 Bughouse Square - Eve Ewing's Podcast with co-ghost, Studs Terkel - https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/bughouse-square Faith Ringgold - United States of Attica, 1971 - https://whitney.org/collection/works/44678 Gwendolyn Brooks - We Real Cool - https://poets.org/poem/we-real-cool How Watermelons Became a Racist Trope - William R. Black in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/how-watermelons-became-a-racist-trope/383529/ The Abigail Fisher case - https://www.propublica.org/article/a-colorblind-constitution-what-abigail-fishers-affirmative-action-case-is-r Project a Black Planet: The Art and Culture of Panafrica - currently at the Art Institute Chicago - https://www.artic.edu/exhibitions/10157/project-a-black-planet-the-art-and-culture-of-panafrica Braiding Sweetgrass - Robin Wall Kimmerer - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781571313560 S7E9 – Revisiting Heather McGhee on How Racism Hurts Us All - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The president just signed a truly monstrous piece of legislation into law. Much has been written about the impacts on health, climate and the debt, but there is a lesser known evil lurking in this bill - a national school voucher plan. It's temping to lose hope, but there is something each of us can do. LINKS:  A blog post version of this episode. - https://integratedschools.org/big-beautiful-monstrosity-and-a-call-to-action/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

As Season 11 comes to a close, we wanted to spend some time reflecting on the lessons we've learned from this season and what we hope for in Season 12.  We'll be off for the summer with a few possible bonus episodes, and back for real in the fall.  In the mean time, we want to express our deepest appreciation for a number of people who make this podcast run.   Firstly, to all of our guests, thank you for joining us, for sharing your stories and your wisdom with us.  Being in conversation with each of you is a true gift that we do not take likely.   To the podcast team - Darci, Jennifer, Jenna, Anna, Susan, Courtney - thank you for your work on transcripts and promotional material, but more importantly for your thought partnership on each episode and the entire season.  The conversations you share, the insights you bring are what keeps the podcast relevant and topical and helps us dive into nuanced topics knowing you're listening and thinking about these things along side of us.   To our Patreon supporters and Integrated Schools donors, your belief in this work and your willingness to support it with your financial resources isn't something we take for granted.  Your belief in us keeps us invested in the work and motivates us to always make the best episodes we can.   And finally, to all of you, our listeners, it is truly and honor to be in this with each and every one of you as we try to know better and do better.  Until next season! ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“Having my children in public school was something that I wanted to do with people in my community. It was a commitment that we were making together. And then when I saw folks leaving, it felt like a betrayal.” – Stephanie Forman. Where we send our kids to school is, for many, a complicated decision. We struggle to weigh multiple factors- curriculum and teachers, diversity of the student body, the commute and hours, not to mention what role we want to play in supporting the institutions where our kids spend 8 hours a day. Drs. Stephanie Forman and Lisa Sibbett are educational researchers in the Pacific Northwest and both decided to send their kids to public schools after weighing many factors. However, they saw many of their colleagues, who were also working to support education, and also expressed a belief in the importance of public schools, opting out, and instead sending their kids to private schools. Rather than write these people off, they decided to use their educational research skills to better understand the choice these families were making, what the impact was for them, and their families, and what tools might be best suited to reconnect those families to public schools, whether by bringing their kids back, or, at a minimum, advocating on behalf of public education. They join us to share what they learned, and help us keep an open mind as we think about the choices people make for schooling. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Robin DiAngelo's Rules of Engagement for White Fragility - https://www.uua.org/files/pdf/d/diangelo-white_fragility_and_the_rules_of_engagement.pdf Lisa's Substack - The Auntie Bulletin - https://theauntie.substack.com/ S11E16 - Advocating for Black Educator Wellness with Asia Lyons - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e16-advocating-for-black-educator-wellness-with-asia-lyons/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“I hope that you know that I believe you, the community of listeners believes you, and that's good enough.” Dr. Asia Lyons Dr. Asia Lyons is the host of 'The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators' where she practices archival justice by sharing the stories of Black educators who have left the classroom. Her own journey to education and then out of the classroom led her work both on the podcast, and in creating intentional spaces of healing for Black educators. Dr. Lyons's work focuses on the less sexy, but often more important work of retaining Black educators. Recruitment is a crucial starting point, but if we can't create spaces of wellness for Black educators, retention will always be a challenge. Dr. Lyons encourages all of us to speak up on behalf of Black educators, to create spaces of healing, and to advocate for justice at least as loudly as the voices who aren't. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/ William A Smith - who coined the term Racial Battle Fatigue - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u0173846 Taking Care and Moving Forward with Dr. LaShaune Stitt - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/taking-care-and-moving-forward-with-dr-lashaune-stitt/ Boundaries, Burnout and Black educator Wellness with Josephine Ampaw-Greene - https://www.exitinterviewpodcast.com/boundaries-burnout-and-black-educator-wellness-with-josephine-ampaw-greene/ S11E14 – What Was Lost: Noliwe Rooks on the Failures of Integration - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e14-what-was-lost-noliwe-rooks-on-the-failures-of-integration/ S10E15 – Rebuilding The Black Educator Pipeline with Sharif El-Mekki - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e15-rebuilding-the-black-educator-pipeline-with-sharif-el-mekki/ S10E14 – Jim Crow’s Pink Slip with Dr. Leslie Fenwick - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e14-jim-crows-pink-slip-with-dr-leslie-fenwick/ S11E8 – Gratitude and Validation: One Family’s Journey Through Integrated Schools - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e8-gratitude-and-validation-one-familys-journey-through-integrated-schools/ S11E15 – Unearthing Joy: Gholdy Muhammad on Teaching with Love - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e15-unearthing-joy-gholdy-muhammad-on-teaching-with-love/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

"If we're not centering children’s humanity through love, there's no strategy, no professional book or instructional method in the world that can prepare the teacher to elevate the child." - Dr. Gholdy Muhammad Identity, skills, intellectualism, criticality, and joy. These are the five pursuits that Dr. Gholdy Muhammad argues are key to education. Our educational system focuses most of its attention on skills while often overlooking the other pursuits to the detriment of all kids. All people need to know who they are and whose they are, need to put the knowledge they gain into action, need to learn to distinguish between truth and lies, and to critically examine the stories we are told, and everyone needs joy. An education system, not to mention a society, that focuses on all five pursuits has the possibility of bringing out the genius in all of us. Underlying all of these pursuits is love. Dr. Muhammad joins us to discuss what teaching, parenting, and being part of community can look like with a focus on these pursuits. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Cultivating Genius: An Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781338594898 Unearthing Joy: A Guide to Culturally and Historically Responsive Curriculum and Instruction - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781338856606 The Secret Life of Plants - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780060915872 Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“At its inception, in the courts, and as a project, integration was deeply contested and Black people were deeply divided about it. ” – Dr. Noliwe Rooks The common narrative about integration often frames it as a clear victory—a moment when American education finally confronted injustice. But Dr. Noliwe Rooks argues the reality is far more complicated. In her new book, Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children, she traces the history of Black education, showing how the pursuit of desegregation sometimes led to profound losses for Black communities. In this conversation, Dr. Rooks discusses the overlooked sacrifices Black communities made as schools integrated, from the closure of vibrant Black-led schools to the erasure of Black educators’ roles and perspectives. Through the story of 4 generations of her own family, she reveals how integration initiatives frequently dismissed Black voices and visions for education, leaving systemic inequities intact. This episode challenges us to rethink what integration truly means, and what’s required if education is to fulfill its promise of justice and liberation for all students. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now - https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780553387391 A Passionate Mind in Relentless Pursuit: The Vision of Mary McLeod Bethune - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593492420 Cutting School: The Segrenomics of American Education - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781620975985 S6E9 – BvB@67 – Noliwe Rooks Revisited – Dr. Rooks from our Brown v Board anniversary series - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s6e9-bvb67-noliwe-rooks-revisited/ S11E9: The Containment: Michelle Adams on Northern Jim Crow - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e9-the-containment-michelle-adams-on-northern-jim-crow/ No Choice Is the “Right” Choice: Black Parents’ Educational Decision-Making in Their Search for a “Good” School – Dr. Linn Posey-Maddox - https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/91/1/38/464262/No-Choice-Is-the-Right-Choice-Black-Parents?redirectedFrom=fulltext S10E14 – Jim Crow’s Pink Slip with Dr. Leslie Fenwick - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e14-jim-crows-pink-slip-with-dr-leslie-fenwick/ Ep 11 – White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcrae/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Last month, integration advocates from around the country gathered for the National Coalition on School Diversity's National Conference to discuss where we find ourselves in this difficult moment. From policy makers to researchers, school leaders to equity advocates, the conference featured many of the brightest minds focusing on how we build up and support an education system that serves all children well. Despite the challenges to education, especially public education, not to mention multiracial public education, attending the conference was inspiring and sustaining. To see several hundred people gather in the face of pushback to reaffirm our commitment to the project of integration provided much needed hope in troubling times. Today we share some conversations with folks from the conference who are committed to a better world and finding hope where they can. LINKS: The National Coalition on School Diversity - http://school-diversity.org/ S10E18 – The 70th Anniversary of Brown v Board – Do It Live! - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e18-the-70th-anniversary-of-brown-v-board-do-it-live/ S11E9: The Containment: Michelle Adams on Northern Jim Crow - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e9-the-containment-michelle-adams-on-northern-jim-crow/ NAACP LDF on The Dept of Ed's Dear Colleague Letter - https://www.naacpldf.org/education-department-anti-opportunity-letter-federal-funding/ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - http://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - http://patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields, and our best tool to create active, engaged citizens. And while that vision is powerful, Dr. Eve L. Ewing argues that it was never intended to be those things for Black or Native students. In fact, her new book, Original Sins: The (MIs)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism, maintains that schooling in America was created to prepare White kids for leadership, Black kids for subjugation, and Native kids for erasure. She joins us to discuss these three separate strands of education and the tools of discipline and punishment, implied intellectual inferiority, and preparation for economic subjugation used to support them. She leaves us with love, justice and a focus on flourishing as possible antidotes to help us imagine something better. LINKS: Ghosts in the Schoolyard: Racism and School Closings on Chicago's South Side - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780226526164 Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of AmericanRacism - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593243701 Bughouse Square - Eve Ewing's Podcast with co-ghost, Studs Terkel - https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/bughouse-square Faith Ringgold - United States of Attica, 1971 - https://whitney.org/collection/works/44678 Gwendolyn Brooks - We Real Cool - https://poets.org/poem/we-real-cool How Watermelons Became a Racist Trope - William R. Black in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/how-watermelons-became-a-racist-trope/383529/ The Abigail Fisher case - https://www.propublica.org/article/a-colorblind-constitution-what-abigail-fishers-affirmative-action-case-is-r Project a Black Planet: The Art and Culture of Panafrica - currently at the Art Institute Chicago - https://www.artic.edu/exhibitions/10157/project-a-black-planet-the-art-and-culture-of-panafrica Braiding Sweetgrass - Robin Wall Kimmerer - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781571313560 S7E9 – Revisiting Heather McGhee on How Racism Hurts Us All - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

"To be White is, is to be raised on lies. Lies that are passed down, generationally that a lot of White folks don't always know that they're passing down." - Greg Jarrell Our guest today, Greg Jarrell is an ordained minister, a cultural organizer and the author of Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods. Through many years of building community while engaging in anti-racist learning, he has come to realize that he also has a stake in ending White supremacy, advancing racial justice, and building loving, multi-racial communities. He joins us to discuss the ongoing moral and intellectual deficiencies that come from Whiteness, the importance of intentional anti-racist education, and the need for material and cultural reparations. Jarrell emphasizes the necessity of developing multiracial coalitions and using one's advantages to dismantle systemic inequities, in order to face historical scars and work towards a more just society. LINKS: Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/97815064... QC Family Tree in Charlotte, NC - http://qcfamilytree.org/ The Redress Movement - https://redressmovement.org/ ICYMI: Seeing White - Our episode sharing clips from the Seeing White season from Scene on Radio https://integratedschools.org/podcast... S5E3 – Gifts We Didn’t Expect: Family, Faith, and Integration - our conversation with Albert - https://integratedschools.org/podcast... Charles Mills - The Racial Contract - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/97815017... Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedS... Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. / integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Omkari Williams believes deeply in the power of people to change their environments - that through the power of the human spirit, and small, concrete actions, anything is possible, and that true changes requires all types of people. Her recent book, Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without A Bullhorn, is a testament to this idea. In it, she lays out four activist archetypes - The Headliner, The Producer, The Organizer, and The Indispensable. All movements need all four types of activists, and everyone can find themselves in one or more of the archetypes. This view opens the door to anyone to participate, and the book gives concrete steps to take to figure out how to get involved in a way that leans in to each person's individual strengths. In a dark time, where hope can be hard to find, Ms. Williams brings a grounded sense of hope and possibility, along with actionable steps to changing our environments for the better. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: - Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without A Bullhorn - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781635866889 - Ms. Williams Podcast - Stepping Into Truth: Conversations on Social Justice and How We Get Free - https://www.steppingintotruth.com/ - Register for an Integrated Schools Book Club session! - https://integratedschools.org/book-club/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The 1954 Supreme Court decision, Brown v Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas declared the separate is inherently unequal. The Supreme Court declared that it was in the national interest for kids to learn together. And while progress towards that goal was slow, and often met with resistance, there was an opportunity in the decision to try to heal our nation from the extraordinary wounds caused by slavery, Jim Crow, and persistent separate and unequal opportunities for Black people. In many ways, 1974's Milliken v Bradley decision put an end to that potential. A tragic Supreme Court decision, that led Thurgood Marshall to write a powerful dissent, in which he says, "unless our children learn together, there is little hope that our nation will learn to live together and understand each other." Professor Michelle Adams has been studying the Milliken decision for many years, and just released a book about the case, called The Containment: Detroit, The Supreme Court, and the Battle for Racial Justice in the North. It's an easily digestible, incredibly compelling story about the power of ordinary people in Detroit who came together to fight for equal opportunity for all kids, and who came up against a court that codified White flight as tool to avoid integration into law. We are still dealing with the ripples of that decision today. Professor Adams joins us to discuss her life, the book, and why she cares so deeply about this decision. While the decision caused great harm, Professor Adams also provides us with hope. The book gives a more complete understanding of the history of the civil rights movement so we can start from a shared set of facts. This understanding can help us all demand that our children learn together, in high quality, fully funded, integrated public schools, because, as Professor Adams says, it's very hard to have a multiracial democracy without that. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Click here to download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: The Containment: Detroit, The Supreme Court, and the Battle for Racial Justice in the North - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780374250423 A review of The Containment by Jeffry Toobin at the New York Times (gift link) - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/13/books/review/the-containment-michelle-adams.html&ved=2ahUKEwjxmt7P3ZaLAxXfGjQIHcrRNWgQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ZDwJgL60CBTDzg8BH7yp9 Complete audio from the Milliken v Bradley opinion, including the entirety of Justice Marshall’s dissent. - https://apps.oyez.org/player/#/burger4/opinion_announcement_audio/17265 Professor Adams first appearance on our show - S5E16 – Revisiting Not In My Suburbs: Milliken v Bradley @46 - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/millikenat46/ Justice Marshall's dissenting opinion in Milliken - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Milliken_v._Bradley/Dissent_Marshall Part 1 of our 3 part series on Keyes v Denver Public Schools - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e11-local-stories-of-desegregation-denver-part-1/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. https://www.patreon.com/c/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Every parent and caregiver wants a crystal ball. We want to see how the choices we make for our kids, from screen time to activities to where they go to school, will impact them when they're older. Choosing an integrating school can feel like a risky choice, and even if we believe that it is the right choice, both for our kids, and our community, it's easy for doubt to creep in. Susan, a White mom in Lancaster, PA, and her husband, made that choice for their son, Elias in kindergarten. When he was 15, he was at a track meet with schools from around the county, and recognized how many other schools were almost entirely full of White students. He took that moment to say thank you to his parents for the choices they made. He recognized all the benefits he had received from his integrated education, from a comfort in diverse spaces, to a deeper sense of community, to an appreciation for not being centered at all times. Susan and Elias join us to share their experience, what they've learned, and what they hope other parents, caregivers, and kids can take from their journey. LINKS: -Choosing a school for my daughter in a segregated city - Nikole Hannah-Jones (gift link) - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/choosing-a-school-for-my-daughter-in-a-segregated-city.html?unlocked_article_code=1.q04.Q_uz.TZ6aKiXLpt1T&smid=url-share -Ep 2 - The Bordon Family - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep-2-the-bordon-family/ -The Daunting Task of Staying Put - Susan's blog post on our site - https://integratedschools.org/the-daunting-task-of-staying-put/ ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

We often talk about race as a social construct. We know that there is more genetic diversity within racial groups than between. And yet, race obviously has real life impacts on people's lives. We have talked on the show in the past about the historical creation of race, and looked at the creation of Whiteness, particularly in relation to Blackness. Our guest today complicates this understanding both by asking us to acknowledge the ways race continues to be created and re-created, particularly in schools, and by asking us to consider the label of Latinx as a racial category rather than an ethnicity. Dr. Laura Chávez-Moreno recently wrote a booked called, How Schools Make Race: Teaching Latinx Radicalization in America, in which she argues that schools play an important role in how society makes and remakes racial categories. Through an examination of two dual-language programs in the midwest, Dr. Chávez-Moreno studied the ways these programs reify ideas about racial identity and use what she calls an "imagined" Spanish, as a proxy for racial identification. The conversation complicates our understanding of racial categories, and highlights the ways that school could play an important role in moving beyond anti-racism and towards an anti-race society. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now! https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: -How Schools Make Race: Teaching Latinx Radicalization in America - Dr. Chávez-Moreno's book- https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781682539224 -Episode 13 - Hopes and Hazards of Dual Language - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep-13-hopes-and-hazards-of-dual-language/ -ICYMI: Seeing White - our overview of the podcast series from Scene on Radio - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/icymi-seeing-white-bonus/ -S10E15 – Rebuilding The Black Educator Pipeline with Sharif El-Mekki - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e15-rebuilding-the-black-educator-pipeline-with-sharif-el-mekki/ -S7E11 - A Framework for Antiracist Eduction - with a discussion of the CARE Framework - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/care/ -Zeus Leonardo, at UC Berkeley - After the Glow: Race ambivalence and other educational prognoses - https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1469-5812.2010.00645.x -Contact Dr. Chávez-Moreno - https://laurachavezmoreno.com/#contact Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that - https://bit.ly/3V4wzz1 ------------------------------------------ The way we fund schools in this country often results in haves and have nots. We have some districts with immense wealth, often bordering districts that are severely under resourced. The work of creating more equitable funding formulae is important and ongoing. At the same time, we have district lines that make for school districts deeply segregated by race and class. The work of desegregating our schools is also important and ongoing. And yet, the people working on these two seemingly separate problems rarely work together. Brown's Promise was created to bring these conversations together with the belief that both are important, and neither can be solved without addressing the other. We will never equitably resource segregated schools, and school desegregation is a key tool towards providing equitable opportunity for all kids. Saba Bireda (who we met at our live show back in May), and Ary Amerikaner met working on these separate issues in the Obama administration. Their frustration with the slow pace of progress led them to start Brown's Promise early last year. Their work focuses on advocating for well-resourced, integrated schools that actually serve all of our children. From state level litigation to a policy agenda to a community engagement, Brown's Promise is committed to fulfilling the promise of the Brown v Board decision. Believing that separate is inherently unequal, they believe that giving all students an equitable education requires fully-funded, integrated schools for all. They join us to discuss their work, how parents and caregivers can get involved in advocacy work, and what the world might look like if we could solve these two, interrelated issues. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In the wake of the election results, Dr. Val and Andrew sit down to reflect on what it means for ourselves, for the Integrated Schools movement, and for the institution of public education.   Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. Patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

As we approach the 2024 election, we wanted to revisit a conversation with one of our favorite guests, Dr. Carol Anderson, the Charles Howard Candler Professor of African American Studies at Emory University. In addition to writing White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Nation’s Divide, One Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression is Destroying Our Democracy, and The Second: Race and Guns in a Fatally Unequal America, Dr. Anderson brings a depth of knowledge about our country's ongoing struggle to become a true, multi-racial democracy that felt particularly relevant in the run-up to the election. At the core of her research agenda is how policy is made and unmade, how racial inequality and racism affect that process and outcome, and how those who have taken the brunt of those laws, executive orders, and directives have worked to shape, counter, undermine, reframe, and, when necessary, dismantle the legal and political edifice used to limit their rights and their humanity. With a gift for making the illegible legible, Dr. Anderson provides us with a clear eyed look at the history that has led to the widely inequitable education system we have today. And while the topic is heavy, she brings joy and laughter to the conversation in a way that can only leave you smiling through the pain. We close the episode with some new commentary from Dr. Val and Andrew - if you remember the original episode and want to jump ahead to that, you'll find it around the 55:00 mark. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In the fall of 1963, in Petersburg, VA, 6 young Black girls integrated Stonewall Jackson Elementary School. In the middle of the Massive Resistance era, districts around Virginia and throughout the South were fighting desegregation tooth and nail. From physical violence to the closing of entire school districts, communities were circumventing the Brown v Board decision in whatever ways they could. In 1961, Reverend Grady W. Powell, Sr, became the pastor of Gillfield Baptist Church, located in the heart of Petersburg. With a deep commitment to civil rights, and past experience with desegregation attempts in Richmond, Rev. Powell believed it was time for Petersburg to fulfill the promise of the Brown decision. He and his wife decided to enroll their two daughters, along with 4 other children of church members, in the all White, Stonewall Jackson Elementary. Using his relationships and status in the town, Rev. Powell approached the superintendent of the schools to ask for his support. Despite his initial reticence, the superintendent eventually agreed to support the effort, and worked with the town to minimize the disruption. Over 60 years later, this story has rarely been told, and yet, it's an important moment in the history of the country. We're joined by one of those young children who held the weight of the movement on their small shoulders all those years ago. Reverend Powell's daughter, Dr. Sandra Powell Mitchell was entering the 4th grade in 1963, and still remembers the first day of school well. She joins us to tell her story, how it informed her life's work as an educator, and if she thinks it was all worth it. We also get to hear from her father, who, at 92, is still a powerful voice for the importance of community, the value of diversity, and the goal of truly living together. LINKS: From Morning 'til Evening: The Autobiography of Grady W Powell - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781939930309 The Fauquier Times on Dr. Mitchell's Retirement - https://www.fauquier.com/news/a-piece-of-history-leaving-fauquier-county/article_03da4a36-c3be-11e6-94dd-e7f4511a9c5a.html The Progress Index on Rev. Powell's retirement - https://www.progress-index.com/story/lifestyle/faith/2017/10/13/longtime-petersburg-pastor-bids-farewell/18301227007/ Rev. Dr. Grady Powell on the Teachers in the Movement Podcast - https://teachersinthemovement.com/resource-library/episode-7-reverend-dr-grady-powell-practiced-what-he-preached Whose culture has capital? A critical race theory discussion of community cultural wealth - T.J. Yosso - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1361332052000341006 Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands