CMA Connect

Interested in boosting your sales by 24%? Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Jenna Landi, Director of Global Brand Research at Pinterest, to explore how positive environments drive measurable business results, with advertising showing 94% more impact on purchase intent. Jenna reveals why brands don't have to choose between positivity and performance. She introduces 'ambient chaos' as the driver of consumer shifts, shares Pinterest's 88% trend-forecasting accuracy, and reveals that Canadian Gen Z over-indexes certain trends at 5.5 times the global rate. Plus insights on AI, visual search, and building safer digital spaces, with actionable strategies for authentic brand connections. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:23:17 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:23:19 - 00:00:53:01 Alison When we're surrounded by an increasingly divisive and negative cultural landscape, finding authentic positivity can actually feel revolutionary. And it turns out it's can also be incredibly good for business, as marketers are grappling with building genuine connections in a digital world. Research from Pinterest proves that positive environments don't just feel better. They deliver measurable business results. For today's episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Jenna Landy, the Director of Global Brand Research of Pinterest. 00:00:53:03 - 00:01:34:07 Alison Jenna leads Pinterest's marketing research organization, leveraging the platform's unique Taste Graph technology to really understand how users discover, engage with, and act on inspiration. Her groundbreaking research on positivity and advertising has shown that campaigns infused with positive content can deliver up to 24% increases in sales. Definitely proof that doing good and doing well are not mutually exclusive. With the Master of Science of Behavioural Science from the London School of Economics and extensive experience at Nielsen and Google, where she was a founding member of the Human Truth Team, Jenna brings both academic rigour and practical marketing expertise to understanding consumer behaviour. 00:01:34:09 - 00:01:57:15 Alison At Pinterest, she is on the forefront of identifying shifting consumer behaviours, including what her team calls the ambient chaos of our current world. What a great description, as well as its impact on everything from design preferences to purchase decisions. Her work spans AI integration, visual search, innovation, and the critical mission of building a safer, more inspirational internet. Welcome, Jenna. 00:01:57:15 - 00:02:01:05 Alison It is an absolute pleasure to have you join us today on CMA connect. 00:02:01:06 - 00:02:08:09 Jenna Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me Alison. I'm so happy to be here and thank you for that really kind intro. This is exciting. 00:02:08:11 - 00:02:19:01 Alison I'm excited as well. So Jenna, I'd love you to start with your journey into marketing and research and really help our listeners understand what drew you to specialize in understanding consumer behaviour? 00:02:19:03 - 00:02:44:10 Jenna Absolutely. I was that annoying kid who never stopped asking questions. And I realized in university that I actually may be able to turn it into a career. So through roles in brand strategy, media buying, digital analytics, and deep global consumer insight, work, I've always been drawn to data and digital data in particular, and just how it offers a really unique window into consumer behaviour. 00:02:44:12 - 00:03:06:01 Jenna I joined Pinterest almost eight years ago now because our data, I believe, is the most unique in the industry. We have signals around both interest and intent. So searches and saves. And so myself and my team, we have this really unique sandbox to explore consumer behaviour from many different angles. And it's always also fun when you can live your work. 00:03:06:05 - 00:03:13:19 Jenna I am a peer myself, and I really appreciate and value the inspiration and creativity that it brings to my life. 00:03:13:21 - 00:03:24:19 Alison Curiosity for me is such an important priority for anyone to succeed in a marketing career. And you've also given hope to all the parents that are listening with those super inquisitive kids at home that it right off. 00:03:24:21 - 00:03:36:00 Jenna Oh, totally. I have two young girls myself, and I definitely am living some karma of kids that are extremely inquisitive. So hang on with them. Maybe it'll pay off later. 00:03:36:02 - 00:03:55:10 Alison And it will definitely pay off. So as a glass half full person myself, I am very intrigued by your research on positivity in advertising, especially into what can be a very divisive cultural landscape. You found that positive environments drive tangible business results. So I'd love you to share some of those findings. And what surprised you most about the research? 00:03:55:12 - 00:04:18:20 Jenna Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that we were really hoping to find and really relieved and excited to find is that, you know, validating our gut, which is that advertising on brand safe and positive platforms isn't just safer, but it can be profitable. It can be good for business. And what we found is even goes beyond that, which is that users are more engaged with ads when they appear in positive spaces. 00:04:18:21 - 00:04:41:10 Jenna So we partnered with Magna, and their research showed us that ads in positive environments truly do perform better. So we looked at the impact of brand safety on metrics like engagement, trustworthiness, intent, and even results to demonstrate that brands don't really have to choose between positivity and performance. I think you said earlier, you know, too often this feels like a trade off. 00:04:41:10 - 00:05:08:15 Jenna And we were so excited in this research to really validate that that's not the case in these, that positive platforms are 94% more impactful in driving purchase intent. And so we talk a lot about brand safety. We've spoken about brand safety for years, but we hadn't yet put numbers behind the business impact. And so these results show that safe and positive platforms aren't just preferred by users, but they also perform for advertisers. 00:05:08:16 - 00:05:36:14 Jenna So in my simulations, the same creative, same finite budget generated up to 24% more sales when brands incorporated view-ability and positivity into their media buying strategies. So that real alchemy of both view-ability and positivity. And so we understand that advertisers are all seeking a competitive edge in today's marketplace. And we really believe that this research represents a fresh opportunity of where to find it. 00:05:36:14 - 00:05:48:17 Jenna So if I can ask listeners today to consider one thing, it would be really consider and evaluate how the platforms you're partnering with offer that positive space and offer that potential for competitive edge. 00:05:48:19 - 00:06:06:09 Alison That is a very compelling case for why positivity is absolutely the right approach, and clearly it's a great advantage from a Pinterest perspective. I also hope that other platforms are hearing and seeing the data and evolving as well would make the world certainly a better and more open place for sure. 00:06:06:11 - 00:06:15:22 Jenna So I would love that as an outcome of this research, please. Yes, an industry call to action to make the internet altogether a more safe and wellbeing supportive environment. 00:06:16:00 - 00:06:32:14 Alison So Jenny, your team's been studying what you call the ambient chaos, which is a term I absolutely love, and certainly our current world is experiencing that and how consumer behaviour are shifting as a result. Can you explain the concept and share some of the trends that you're seeing emerge from this research? 00:06:32:16 - 00:07:15:10 Jenna Yeah, absolutely. We kicked off this research to really understand the why behind some of the trends that we're calling. And Pinterest predicts this year, which I'm excited to get into in a little bit. But ambient chaos is a term my team coined to describe that constant background noise of uncertainty, divisiveness, and negativity that surrounds us today. And so one of my amazing colleagues talked about it as the emotional weather that we're all living in and an ongoing basis, there's just this constant level of low level stress and fragmentation that has become the backdrop of daily life, and it's really fundamentally changing how consumers behave, what they seek out, how they express themselves and so when 00:07:15:10 - 00:07:41:23 Jenna we mapped that into our trends, what we found is that one of the most fascinating shifts is this movement away from stark minimalism towards bold maximalism. As we detected in our trends this year, as people are seeking out new ways of self-expression and really grounding in their interests and passions. And so, you know, for years we've been told that clean, simple, minimal design was the pinnacle of sophistication. 00:07:41:23 - 00:08:05:15 Jenna But consumers are really now gravitating towards more of that authentic self-expression that represents who they are. And we're seeing this everywhere from home decor that's rich with colour and pattern to fashion choices that really make some bold statements rather than blend in. I think it's beautiful that people are saying, I'm here, I matter, and I'm not going to disappear into the background. 00:08:05:15 - 00:08:19:16 Jenna And so for marketers, the key takeaway is that consumers want to stand out and that they're seeking brands and experiences that help them vocalize and represent their truest selves versus, you know, not not wanting to conform to the sea of sameness. 00:08:19:18 - 00:08:36:13 Alison It'

Why isn't Canada a leader in AI adoption? Sabrina Geremia, Vice President & Country Managing Director at Google Canada, tells Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, that Canada was a leader in AI creation but is falling behind in adoption. With only 26% of Canadian organizations having adopted Generative AI, despite the potential to save workers 170 hours annually, Google suggests empowering people, accelerating AI value creation, and contributing to the Canadian national ecosystem. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:23:12 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:23:14 - 00:00:27:21 Alison The artificial intelligence revolution isn't just changing how we work. It's redefining what's possible for Canadian businesses and the economy as a whole. There are many benefits, but also risks associated with that are super important to understand. As AI continues to innovate at breakneck speed, the question really becomes how can Canadian marketers and businesses harness these advances to drive growth and close our productivity gap in ethical and responsible ways? For today's episode, I'm pleased to welcome Sabrina Geremia, VP and Country Manager for Google Canada. 00:00:54:10 - 00:01:25:21 Alison Sabrina will be celebrating her 20th anniversary with Google in May and next year Google is actually celebrating their 25th anniversary in Canada as well. Sabrina has led Google Canada's strategic direction and advertising business since 2017, focusing on fostering Canada's digital economy by assisting businesses in growth, supporting the tech sector and enhancing digital skills among Canadians. With over 25 years of experience spanning marketing, public relations, sales and general management, Sabrina brings a unique perspective to the intersection of technology and business transformation. 00:01:26:02 - 00:01:48:19 Alison Her journey actually began in consumer packaged goods before making a strategic pivot to technology during the early dot-com era. At Google she has held various leadership positions, including managing director of Integrated Solutions, building her expertise as a trusted advisor to Canada's C-suite. She's been recognized as one of Canada's Top 100 Most Powerful Women and the recipient of the Women in Communication Technology Women of the Year Award. 00:01:49:01 - 00:02:11:00 Alison Sabrina is deeply committed to advancing digital skills and innovation in Canada. Her experience really positions her uniquely to speak about AI's potentially transformative impact on marketing, as well as Canada's productivity challenges and the evolution of digital advertising in an increasingly AI-driven landscape. Welcome, Sabrina. It is an absolute pleasure to have you join us today, and I'm looking forward to a terrific conversation. 00:02:11:05 - 00:02:13:06 Sabrina Hi, Alison, it's so great to be here. 00:02:13:08 - 00:02:30:23 Alison So I'd like to kick things off by hearing a bit about your career. So as I mentioned, you started your career in consumer packaged goods with P&G, and then you pivoted and have spent the majority in tech, including your upcoming 20th anniversary with Google. What inspired you to change industries fairly early in your career and what's kept you in tech? 00:02:31:01 - 00:02:55:22 Sabrina Yeah, well, it's so great to be here and I love spending time with the CMA. You know, especially as a former board member, I know that the work that you do is so valuable and important to Canada. So thank you for that. Yeah, my career has been an interesting one. I have actually lived through the three arcs of technology. So I have been working for close to three decades, and I've kind of gone from no internet to the internet, from internet to mobile, 00:02:55:22 - 00:03:18:21 Sabrina and now this just enormous and transformative AI moment. And so pre-internet, I mean, I am Canadian, I grew up in Guelph, just outside of Toronto, and I went to Laurier, for university, and I did my last year in Italy as an exchange student. And from there I worked at Procter and Gamble. And when I worked at Procter and Gamble, it was really underlying what you know very well, Alison. 00:03:18:21 - 00:03:38:21 Sabrina Just like the importance of marketing and how important the foundation fundamentals of marketing are. So I worked there for about five years. I worked across cosmetics and some of their laundry business all across Italy. But I had friends who were in the Valley, and I saw the internet coming, and I knew that it was coming. And I just, you know, knew it was going to be very transformative. 00:03:38:21 - 00:03:58:01 Sabrina I remember one day driving past the Colosseum and just reflecting on like, wow, like that amazing moment when all of this new technology and these new advancements were happening in Rome. I want to be part of that. So I left my job and I did what, you know, many people do. I took a year to kind of move around. 00:03:58:01 - 00:04:16:16 Sabrina I did a lot of nonprofit work. I did a lot of volunteer work. I went to Asia. I did some work with the UN on what the internet could mean for the digital divide. And this was all, again, just at the emergence of the internet. And then I went and landed at Ask Jeeves and after that, Reckitt Benckiser and really learned the foundations of the internet. 00:04:16:16 - 00:04:39:22 Sabrina And I was working in London and globally at that time. And then from there, Google found me, and I started working at Google in 2006, in London, in the UK, and I helped them set up like our whole consumer packaged goods practice on how were we going to work with CPG companies like Reckitt, like P&G, the largest advertisers in the world, and help them shift and transition to this internet future? 00:04:40:00 - 00:04:55:15 Sabrina So a little while later, I came back to Canada and was so happy to come back. And during my time and, you know, working all the aisles of the grocery store in Canada, that was the big shift to mobile. And the shift to mobile was big. Like, no one believed that you would ever buy a pair of running shoes on a mobile phone. 00:04:55:19 - 00:05:13:05 Sabrina And yet we know today people buy cars on mobile phone. They do all sorts of things on their mobile. The form factor had changed. And so, you know, fast forward to today. It's the third shift. It's a really big one. It's very transformative. We've done it before. We're going to do it again. And you know what inspires me really 00:05:13:06 - 00:05:36:19 Sabrina you know, to stay in tech, and I've been in tech like, you know, we said for over 20 years and even more, if you count my experience before Google, is that really it's our mission. Like our mission at Google in this moment is really on helpfulness, and it's making AI helpful for everybody. And in Canada, what inspires me is our shared mission as a team to help make Canada a global leader in AI in the value creation phase. 00:05:36:19 - 00:06:04:10 Sabrina We've been such leaders in the creation of the tech. I want us to be leaders in the adoption and value creation. And this really means empowering our people, it means accelerating AI value creation with all of the amazing partners that you work with every day, and also contributing to the national ecosystem in Canada, and and it really is important to get this right in Canada, because while we were leaders in the creation of AI, we're starting to fall behind in the adoption phase. 00:06:04:12 - 00:06:25:15 Alison I love your career story and the fact that you actually started internationally, spent a number of years. I also love that you've demonstrated great bravery as you decided I want to try something different. Most people would find another job and grow that way, and you took a bet on yourself that clearly paid off and led to some fascinating experiences, including work with the UN, and ultimately brought you to tech. 00:06:25:15 - 00:06:46:18 Alison So lesson number one for our listeners is that willingness to bet on yourself and take some measured risks throughout your career can be an amazing accelerator. So AI is certainly shaping the future across industries. From your perspective as head of Google at Canada, what do you see as the biggest opportunities that AI presents for businesses and the economy in Canada right now? 00:06:47:00 - 00:07:10:14 Sabrina That is a really important question, Alison, and probably one that I think about every day. We talked earlier about being so ahead in the primary research. If you think about many of the AI greats who contributed to this technology, a lot of them were here and a lot of them are here today. And, you know, we have a lot of great primary researchers and a lot of engineers and technological strength in the AI fields. 00:07:10:16 - 00:07:33:12 Sabrina But some of the latest reports are showing that we're lagging in the adoption of AI right now as an economy. So there was a Deloitte report out recently that only 26% of Canadian organizations have adopted AI, and that's about, you know, ten points lower than other companies in a global peer set. So this idea here that we created it, but we're not moving fast enough to adopt it. 00:07:33:14 - 00:07:57:09 Sabrina What's at stake is productivity and opportunity. And you know, the valuation of this is around 230 billion in economic impact for Canada. So that's eight points of GDP. It could save the average worker three and a half weeks per year, 170 hours per year of work. And that's kind of lower value tasks that then you can kind of uplevel and do different things and do them more effectively. 00:07:57:09 - 00:08:17:09 Sabrina So I think really about having Canadians being able to use the tools, adopt the tools. We know that people know it's important. We did a po

Isn't all marketing performance driven? Lauren Bradeen, CMO and Partner at Deloitte, challenges the traditional brand-versus-performance debate in her conversation with Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA. When Lauren stepped into the CMO role, she was driven to evolve the B2B marketing industry playbook. Now she's leading a transformation to help B2B marketers build marketing teams that are confident in the value they bring, rather than constantly justifying every dollar. Plus, Lauren shares why being a 'capability collector' is the secret to career advancement. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:23:09 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:23:11 - 00:00:47:22 Alison I'm very happy to welcome Lauren Bradeen, Chief Marketing Officer and Partner at Deloitte Canada, for today's episode. Lauren is leading a comprehensive marketing transformation that's redefining how one of the world's premier professional services firms is approaching the integration of brand and performance marketing. Her expertise and strategic thinking have been showcased in industry publications, where she's contributed insights on the evolving challenges facing modern marketers. 00:00:48:00 - 00:01:10:06 Alison Lauren's also been actively engaged in developing the next generation of marketing talent, recently participating as a guest speaker at our CMA NXT Marketing Careers Night, and she was also a judge for this year's CMA Awards. What sets Lauren apart is her journey from in the business into marketing leadership. She really understands how Deloitte works with clients, the processes behind it, and how to speak the language of the business. 00:01:10:08 - 00:01:33:06 Alison Currently, she's leading Deloitte Marketing through what she calls the messy middle, an important part of any transformation. And they're moving from an operational marketing function to a strategic brand and growth engine with their own targets and accountability, all while maintaining Deloitte's position as the number one brand globally in the category. With marketing leaders across industries grappling with the false choice between brand building and performance marketing, 00:01:33:07 - 00:01:46:02 Alison Lauren's approach can offer a roadmap for how these traditionally siloed functions really need to work together to drive real business success. Welcome, Lauren, I am absolutely thrilled to have you join us here today, and I'm looking forward to a terrific conversation. 00:01:46:04 - 00:01:48:04 Lauren Thank you. Alison. So am I. 00:01:48:06 - 00:01:59:04 Alison So let's get started with your story. When you stepped into the CMO role at Deloitte, what was it that resonated for you about that role and what were some of your early priorities? 00:01:59:06 - 00:02:20:08 Lauren So I would offer that my journey into the role might have been a little bit more unconventional, as I was actually offered the role while on maternity leave, and so that really provided me a bit of space without an existing mandate to be focused on, to really think about the opportunity. And there were three things that surfaced for me. 00:02:20:10 - 00:02:42:12 Lauren The first was to drive a greater impact for the firm. And so this role supports all of our businesses and all of our industries. And so within that, I have the opportunity to actually learn from and work with leaders across operate and consulting services and tax and legal, ER and I G.P.S. And so that was really, really interesting for me. 00:02:42:14 - 00:03:14:23 Lauren The second was I had felt like the B2B playbook had not made as much progress over the last decade. And so I was excited about this opportunity for an industry that felt pretty ripe for transformation. And then the third piece was, what an honour. And so when they offered me the role, I felt like from a personal career perspective, the growth, the leadership opportunity to work with this large, incredible team, it just felt like something that I absolutely couldn't turn down. 00:03:15:01 - 00:03:38:13 Lauren And so being on maternity leave, that also gave me a bit of space in a different way to think about what I wanted to do before I actually started the role. And so as I stepped into the role, the immediate priorities I had gone in with a bit of like blue sky unconstrained strategy, what were all the things that I would have loved when I was in the business? 00:03:38:15 - 00:03:57:18 Lauren And then once I started the role and did my listening tour, in that first month, I was really able to validate, invalidate, gain new ideas from the team, hear all the things that they had always wanted to do, but maybe felt like they couldn't. And so right off the bat, the focus was just getting the strategy set. 00:03:57:19 - 00:04:15:07 Lauren I started in Q2 as well for Deloitte, and so I felt like if I waited too long, it could actually be a bit more disruptive. And so we got that strategy in place, shared out this strategy so that everybody on the team felt part of and very clear on, what was our mission and what were we rallying around. 00:04:15:08 - 00:04:36:03 Lauren And then the immediate priorities were around the areas that needed the most modernization in order to deliver on that strategy. And so we set up what we called task forces. There was about six of them, they're like mini consulting projects around things like digital transformation and KPIs and measurement. There were a few new capabilities we wanted to stand on, like our content studio. 00:04:36:05 - 00:04:40:06 Lauren And so those were the immediate priorities that we took on once I stepped into the role. 00:04:40:08 - 00:04:52:13 Alison I absolutely love that Deloitte gave you the promotion when you were on mat leave. That speaks so incredibly well of the culture, and the signal that that would have sent across the organization is incredibly powerful. 00:04:52:15 - 00:05:10:03 Lauren I will reinforce that. I felt incredibly honoured and also very proud of Deloitte for giving me that opportunity while on maternity leave. I also asked my leader, like, do you think this is something that I can do as a new mom? And she was like, I think you can do this because you're a new mom. Like the the perspective you'll bring. 00:05:10:03 - 00:05:15:13 Lauren And so that was definitely a very proud moment for me, for the firm. 00:05:15:15 - 00:05:45:02 Alison That's amazing. Now, one of the big themes in marketing today is the ongoing tension between brand marketing and performance marketing. It is so often treated as an "either or" instead of an "and" relationship. So with that as a backdrop, I know you're leading a significant transformation at Deloitte around performance marketing. I'd love you to share your approach to structuring and changing marketing within the organization to be more performance driven, acknowledging that the brand part is an important part of driving that performance as well. 00:05:45:03 - 00:06:08:04 Lauren So first and foremost, I've never loved the term performance marketing. I can appreciate that what felt like quite suddenly, marketers could track a sale and attribute a dollar to the marketing spend. It was very exciting. But I actually think we did a disservice by categorizing a part of marketing as performance, because then what is everything else in service of? 00:06:08:06 - 00:06:32:00 Lauren And so I feel like the pendulum swung now back to needing a more balanced approach. And that's absolutely how we are embracing it. And so we call it "from brand to demand". And all marketing is performance driven. But it's in service of different KPIs. And so in terms of how we're thinking about performance marketing holistically, and you need that KPI framework. 00:06:32:00 - 00:07:03:01 Lauren So we have quantifiable KPIs across brand, eminence consideration and growth. And we work in service of that KPI framework. The next thing I'd say, that we have done, again, in service of this broader performance marketing definition, is being a little bit less binary around how we look at spend. And so I think even when performance marketing started being talked about, you'd say, okay, well, we need to invest this percentage of our budget on performance marketing and then this percentage on everything else. 00:07:03:03 - 00:07:27:07 Lauren Whereas the percentage splits or the way in which you flex your budget is very dependent on what you are marketing and the challenges that you're facing. We know that through things like media mixed modelling and different incrementality and approaches, you're going to learn what the right budget split at a given time is. But I do think we need to be more fluid in our approaches to budget and spending. 00:07:27:12 - 00:07:58:01 Lauren And so we're really thinking about, what are the needs of our business, what are the needs of our client, and what does that mean from a spend split perspective? In the same way that you wouldn't look at the cost to acquire every segment the same. And so I think that comes back to everything needing to be in service of that KPI framework, because if you're only looking at something like the cost per acquisition, you're going to miss out on more flexible budgeting and spend split strategy, which would actually be in service of more growth. 00:07:58:03 - 00:08:22:12 Lauren And then the last thing I'd offer is just the short term - long term balance. We're very lucky because Deloitte is a very client centric business, and we don't have the pressures of maybe a tech company or a consumer company where they have targets every week to meet on sales. Just by nature of the velocity of our sales cycle, we are more of a longer term business. 00:08:22:12 - 00:08:45:01 Lauren And so we have that long term longevit

Are you upskilling fast enough to stay ahead of AI and tech disruption? Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Mark Beckles, CEO of Palette Skills, who's leading Canada's largest upskilling initiative. With 71% of workers wanting to upgrade their skills regularly, Mark reveals how the Palette Skills program upskills people in weeks - not months. From generating $200 million in economic output to reshaping careers, learn why Mark believes the future of work belongs to those who pursue 'latticed' careers instead of climbing traditional ladders. [00:00:00] Presenter: Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. [00:00:23] Alison: The future of work is here as artificial intelligence and tech disruption reshape entire industries at breakneck speed. The question isn't whether Canadian workers need to upskill, but whether we can do it fast enough to stay ahead of the change and keep our country thriving. For today's episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Mark Beckles, Chief Executive Officer at Palette Skills. [00:00:45] Alison: Mark joined Palette Skills in July and shares our passion for upskilling Canadians to ensure that they can innovate and compete both here at home as well as globally. Mark brings more than 25 years of senior leadership experience in financial services and the nonprofit sector known for driving large transformational initiatives and delivering true business value. [00:01:05] Alison: At RBC, Mark led the Future Launch initiative that equipped 5.5 million young Canadians for the future of work. He also spearheaded RBC Upskill, a national tool that helps individuals align their skills with emerging careers. Previously, Mark served as President and CEO of the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund for Canada.  [00:01:24] Alison: At Palette Skills, Mark and his team are leading Canada's largest upskilling initiative. His work is particularly timely as tech disruption, especially AI, are continuing to reshape entire industries and redefine what skills will be most valuable in the future. What makes Mark's perspective particularly valuable is just front row seat to workforce transformation through pallet skills programs. [00:01:47] Alison: He can see not just what skills employers are seeking, but why they're upskilling their employees, which really provides some great early insights into how tech is driving change across Canada's economy in every province. With ongoing discussions about Canada's productivity gap, Mark's insights into upskilling and innovation couldn't be more relevant or timelier. [00:02:07] Alison: Welcome, Mark. I am absolutely thrilled to have you join me on CMA Connect today. [00:02:11] Mark: Thank you for having me on, Alison, such a pleasure to be here with you today.  Alison: Now I want to kick things off by hearing more about your career journey. In particular, I'd love to know what drew you to focus on social responsibility throughout your career, and what made the transition to Palette Skills such a natural fit for you? [00:02:28] Mark: Well, thanks for the question, Alison. I, I would start by saying that I spent most of my time, most of my career in corporate, but there was one intersectional moment in the early 2000s where I made a conscious decision to step away and to invest my skills in the nonprofit sector. And for context, I, you know, developed these skills around risk management when I was, uh, working in the insurance sector and discovered that these skills were easily transferable to the nonprofit sector where I worked in relief development at first and then had the awesome opportunity to, uh, then work for the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund for a number of of years. [00:03:12] Mark: And, uh, as a result of that, I became acutely aware of this notion that profit and purpose can coexist in the same ecosystem, and that I could more effectively translate the language of the nonprofit sector to the corporate sector and the language of the corporate sector to the nonprofit sector, because of course, one's from Mars and the other from Venus. [00:03:33] Mark: But in having this sort of cross sector experience or these cross-sector experiences, it really has enriched my life and really helped me understand the ways in which I can help create value for society by bringing these really strong corporate skills to the nonprofit sector and taking a real deep understanding of the issues and challenges, uh, facing the nonprofit sector rather, and what they're trying to solve, and making sure that the corporate sector and governments and other stakeholders understand.  [00:04:03] Mark: And so in the context of Palette Skills, I just absolutely enjoy the work that we're doing because we're actually helping to ensure that we can sort of fuel Canada's economic prosperity.  Alison: It's such a great personal example because when you think about working in a big bank, working in risk in the insurance sector, and then moving to nonprofit, a lot of our listeners, a lot of people would think, how is that possible? [00:04:26] Alison: You're gonna be starting from scratch and not really appreciate how transferable those skills are. In my career, I've had similar opportunities where I've worked in very, very different industries, yet some of the challenges are the same, and the skills are a lot more transferable than many people assume. [00:04:42] Mark: So I like that you have that personal perspective as you're going into head one of Canada's largest upskilling programs as well.  Mark: Absolutely. I, I think to a large degree, most employees, most Canadians, don't understand or appreciate the extent to which their skills are actually transferrable across careers and across sectors. [00:05:01] Mark: And that's one of the great joys of the work that we do, that I did at RBC, and now that we do it at Upscale Canada, to help workers to help employees understand the transferability of skills of workers.  Alison: Absolutely. Yeah, diversity of experience, diversity of thought makes us all better at what we do, so it's a great, great confirmation. [00:05:19] Alison: I mentioned in my opening that we are absolutely seeing unprecedented tech disruption, particularly with AI. So you clearly have a front row seat to workforce transformation, and I'd love to hear what early trends are you seeing in terms of how and why employers are upskilling their employees.  [00:05:37] Mark: It's a great question Alison. Uh, a couple of things I would offer, first of which is upskilled workers get the most up to date skills and are ready to hit the ground running in four months or less. And these are employees who have an immediate impact. And the second is that workforce development is critical and cannot start when people are in the workforce. [00:05:57] Mark: Uh, and such that we need to be thinking about upskilling as a tool of lifelong learning. And these programs can adapt at speed and they can innovate and modernize, making them essential for job seekers and for businesses who are looking to adapt. So the constant change that we are seeing in sectors like yours, like marketing for example, education and training can no longer be once and done. [00:06:22] Mark: And for those of us who've had careers over time know that we have actually had to undergo, uh, upskilling or reskilling, whether formal or informal ways. So, so that, you know, to Upskill Canada, we maximize our impact when we work with multiple stakeholders, corporate partnerships and funders and employers and delivery partners. [00:06:42] Mark: It's not just about employers who are looking to hire for these up-to-date skills. We also serve employers who want to up, uh, upskill their employees as well. I think of RBC funding at the level of $500,000 for a program that supports small and medium sized enterprises and responsible adoption of AI technology, and that will be launched in 2026. [00:07:07] Mark: And that's an example of how when working with corporate partners, we can accelerate the impact that we're trying to have. But of course, business leaders and employees and job seekers will be upskilled in weeks, not months as a result of that investment. The other thing that we know is that 71% of workers [00:07:25] Mark: absolutely want to update their skills more often. And 80% believe that employers should invest, uh, more in providing upskilling and reskilling. So upskilling helps with employee retention and uh, and employee satisfaction. And I would say that we can even work with employers to develop the programming [00:07:44] Mark: they need to make sure that their employees have the right skills to do their jobs more efficiently and more effectively. So when we talk about upskilling employees, it's an ongoing opportunity, an ongoing process. And you know, any sector that wants to be successful is gonna have to turn attention to ensuring that they're billing that robust human capital to ensure that they're competitive. [00:08:09] Alison: It's such a compelling stat that so many Canadian workers want to update their skills, and you make a great point that that's a surefire way to improve employee retention and employee satisfaction. What do you think holds employers back from doing more upskilling?  Mark: I think one of the issues and challenges that holds employers back is [00:08:28] Mark: oftentimes, particularly in small businesses, they don't know what they need in terms of, you know, where they need to upskill their employees. Oftentimes, small organizations don't have, uh, the capital, the, the, the resources to be able to upskill and reskill, uh, in real time. Oftentimes, they're unaware of the, the challenges that they are facing. [00:08:49] Mark: Yet you have employees who often can see before  their e

Can Canadian innovation change the world? In today's episode, Alison Simpson interviews Mark Mandato, Senior Manager of Key Growth Initiatives at CBC, and Chris Sewell, CEO & Founder of Net Zero Media. With advertising emissions approaching 4% of global emissions—rivalling the entire aviation industry—and 74% of Canadians factoring sustainability into their purchasing decisions, this partnership is pioneering breakthrough measurement technology. Discover how CBC and Net Zero Media are giving marketers the precise data they need to track their campaigns' carbon impact and make informed decisions that benefit both their bottom line and the planet. Presenter  0:01   Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's Marketing Podcast where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson, Alison  0:25   The advertising industry accounts for as much as 2% of global carbon emissions from digital alone, with total advertising approaching 4% of all global emissions. That actually rivals the entire aviation industry. But here's what is particularly relevant for us as Canadian marketers. 74% of Canadians consider sustainability important when making purchasing decisions, and two thirds say they're willing to pay above average prices for products that have a lower carbon footprint. Plus 70% of TSX 60 companies have already committed to net zero emissions by 2050. Canadian marketers are sitting at a pivotal moment and navigating both unprecedented consumer expectations as well as evolving compliance requirements. This can create both opportunity and urgency for our profession. While consumer demand accelerates and regulatory frameworks tighten, we're seeing genuine innovation emerge right here at home. Today, we're exploring how Canadian innovation is setting new global benchmarks for environmental responsibility in advertising. CBC is pioneering sustainable media practices that are best in class, not just in Canada but globally. With the breakthrough measurement technologies that are giving marketers the precise, actionable data that they need to track their campaign's carbon impact. Today, I'm joined by Mark Mandato, who is Senior Manager of Growth Initiatives for the CBC. At the CBC, he is leading initiatives to position Canada's national broadcaster as a sustainability leader in Media Solutions. Mark's background spans Rogers Communications and Media Propulsion Laboratory, and he brings a unique commercial perspective to CBC's groundbreaking environmental programs. I'm also joined by Chris Sewell, the Head of Research and Co-founder of Net Zero Media. Chris is the technical architect behind carbon measurement methodologies that are revolutionizing how we understand advertising's environmental impact. Since developing his world leading methodology for quantifying carbon emissions and media activities back in 2007, Chris has worked with leading global brands, proving that sustainability and marketing effectiveness are not mutually exclusive. So welcome Chris and Mark. I am absolutely thrilled to have you both with me today, and I'm looking forward to diving into this conversation that matters more than ever for Canadian marketers. Mark  2:45   Thank you. Great to be here.  Chris  2:47   Good to be here.  Alison  3:14   So Mark,let's start with the fundamental question. Given everything else that's competing for marketers'  attention right now, whether it's AI, tariffs, economic pressures, why should sustainability be a priority for marketing and media professionals?  Mark  3:02   Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question to start off with. I think, I think it's gone from being a nice to have in a marketer's, you know, repertoire of things they have to worry about, down to an essential business imperative. Right? So it affects your brand's reputation, it can affect the consumer behaviour and even financial performance. So you had briefly mentioned that as of today, I think there's 301 companies that have signed on for the, you know, the net carbon zero for 2050, and it's appearing in annual reports as something that they are reporting against on a go forward basis.  Mark  3:32   So at one point it was like, yes, it was a nice thing to do because it was a right thing to do for the planet, but now it has actual business impact that's related to the marketing department. So that's why sustainability has to come back onto the radar. It's not going away. It's not something that's going to get sort of better on its own. So having the ability to report on a granular level is becoming more and more important for marketers. Alison  3:54   That's great to hear. It's obviously mission critical from a planet  perspective, but to see the business impact, to see the customer demand and increase the expectation, and now to have an ability to actually track it, is everything coming together, you know, the way it's meant to. Chris, you've been measuring advertising's carbon impact for over a decade. So for companies that are already tracking campaign metrics, why is carbon measurement important, and why does it matter for their bottom line? Chris  4:23   Actually, Alison, it's getting on for two decades, which I suppose shows both my commitment and my stubbornness in this area. Yeah, the importance of carbon measurement is often overlooked by the marketing team as they are busily focused on existing business objectives, which as we know today, are getting m ore and more challenging. The carbon emanating from the marketing budget is being measured and reported today. It's just being managed by other parts of the organization, so there's not necessarily a clear line of sight, and there's two reasons this has been done and how it affects the bottom line. As Mark was saying, 70% of TSX companies are actually have net zero targets, and therefore someone has to be measuring what's occurring today.  Chris  5:10   So there's two reasons why this is important. Obviously, to meet those targets, but also how it affects the bottom line. Firstly, these companies who are talking about targets, are legally compelled to understand and report future business prospects. So this is a business, it's got nothing to do with climate at the moment, but, climate change is there as a reality. Therefore they have to take this into account when they're saying what's going to happen in the future. So this requires analysis of the external risks that are going to occur in future years, and the current emissions from the area of the business that's occurring today, which includes the marketing spend.  Chris  5:50   So market emissions are being measured and reported using what's called, currently is a spend based method. This is where each dollar spent on marketing, regardless of what channel or the activity, is converted into a carbon equivalent based on the local market factor. So it's a simple thing. I spend $100, we convert it by that factor, that's how much carbon on the site, regardless of what's actually occurring. It's a flat number. Everything is actually counted the same. So while this covers any internal or external legal or voluntary portion requirements that these companies are using, it does nothing to help understand the carbon intensity areas of spend. As I said, every dollar is given the same carbon value, and that's just not true.  Chris  6:37   Different channels, different activities, actually have different carbon intensity, and that method will not work in the future. So if it's not understood, it can't be managed. So the only way to reduce emissions is to reduce the budget, which I'm sure no marketer would want to hear that, if we're going to reduce emissions, because we have this target, therefore we will spend less on marketing. So it's not a great position to be in where we currently sit. So while this first reasoned about future risk, it is often the current cost with a direct link to the bottom line. Companies with net zero targets in a number of jurisdictions are neutralizing emissions. This might be an internal policy or maybe legislated requirement. If these marketing emissions are unable to be understood with no pathway to reduction, this cost will only increase with time, as budgets increase, and the cost of compensation or offsets is rising steadily all the time, because more and more companies are looking for, let's call it an easy way out. So marketers are increasing long term liability cost beyond the simple line items of the budget. This will be addressed again by business decisions outside the marketing department, and it's a greater understanding and action is taken. And what CBC is doing is that first major step for an organization to help marketers and the corporate clients understand in detail and they will start reducing into the future.  Alison  8:07   Thanks, Chris, that's super helpful. So we have Canadian consumers who absolutely increasingly expect businesses and brands to be paying attention to sustainability and climate change. We have businesses that are stepping up as they should, to also protect climate change and the challenges that's being measured in that sounds like quite a simplistic way that ultimately could reduce marketers budget. So to have a more sophisticated way to measure it is in the best interest of marketers or budgets the business and ultimately, Canadian consumers as well. Mark, I know the CBC has a real commitment to responsible media and sustainability. I'd love you to walk us through your "Greening Our Story" strategy, and share how sustainable media initiative is fitting in the broader CBC commercial strategy. Mark  8:58   Yeah, absolutely, the sustainability portion and the "Greening Our Story" lives under a larger umbrella that we call Responsible Media. So CBC, as a Crown Corporation, has set a stake in the ground to lead from the f

What if 84% of small businesses needed your platform to survive? Joshua Bloom, GM, Head of US Enterprise Sales and Canada at TikTok, has been working in social media expansion in Canada for over 26 years. His journey led him to become the first employee at MySpace, Facebook, and TikTok Canada. Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, explores Joshua's journey from Wall Street to social media pioneer, why some platforms thrive while others fail, and how he's leading through unprecedented regulatory uncertainty. Presenter  0:01   Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. Alison  0:20   In today's episode, we're exploring the fascinating intersection of digital innovation, economic impact and entrepreneurial resilience with someone who has an absolutely extraordinary track record of being first. So I'm super excited to welcome Joshua Bloom. He has served as the GM of global business solutions for TikTok Canada, and remarkably, has also been the first employee of not one but three major social platforms in Canada, going as far back as MySpace, then Facebook and TikTok. Josh's exceptional leadership was just recognized with a promotion and North American role. So he is now the GM Head of U.S. Enterprise Sales, as well as maintaining Canada at TikTok. Josh's career journey is anything but traditional. From Wall Street to becoming a key architect of social media expansion in Canada over the past 26 years. Since joining on as an instrumental team member in starting TikTok Canada in 2019, he's witnessed the platform grow from a startup operation to an economic powerhouse. Through the combined total of its operations and SMB activities on the platform, TikTok has contributed 2.3 billion to Canada's GDP in 2024 alone. They also support over 613,000 small businesses, 84% of which now consider the platform essential to their survival. This conversation comes at an absolutely critical juncture. With economic uncertainty, we are all managing through dramatic change. With recent regulatory challenges forcing TikTok Canada to pause major cultural investments and face an uncertain future, t hat reality is even more true for Josh and his experience can provide super valuable learning for all of us. So whether you're curious about building social platforms from the ground up, the economic impact of TikTok on Canadian businesses, or how leaders navigate extreme uncertainty, today's conversation promises insights that you won't find anywhere else. So welcome Josh and congratulations on your new role.  Joshua  2:21   Thank you so much, Alison, it's great to talk with you again.  Alison  2:24   Now, Josh, you have this incredibly unique distinction of being employee number one for three major social platforms in Canada. That's a 26 year front row seat to the evolution of social media here, and I'd love you to take us back to the transition from Wall Street to digital, including what was the pivotal moment that convinced you to pursue a career in marketing?  Joshua  2:45   It's funny, I graduated university in 1995, not to age myself, but I graduated a finance degree, and I've always had this vision of working on Wall Street. And so about the end of 1998, after having worked  in finance about three years. My cousin Lee Nadler, called a digital pioneer, he was a number 17 employee at DoubleClick. And DoubleClick was first ad serving technology. And DoubleClick also created the very first ad network. So back in the mid to late 90s, they used to represent all the big websites, including Alta Vista, if you remember that search engine before, before Google, sort of like had its, you know, its reign. So he introduced me to the company, and used to tell me stories about how digital was going to be the big thing in advertising. I was not a fan of computers. Still to this day, I'm not great at them, but he mentioned that they were opening up this media team and that I should come and check it out. He finally convinced me, and it was sort of a match made in heaven. And, you know, ended up spending three fantastic years at DoubleClick to which, one, I really learned internet and the potential of the internet, and two, I was really able to understand what working in a really positive culture looked like. DoubleClick, I think was one of the early great digital cultures, and I think that helped me to sort of create sort of what I wanted to see when I led teams later on down the road. Alison  4:14   Well, a huge thank you on behalf of Canadian marketers for your cousin giving you that push, because clearly we have benefited. And I also like the cultural learning. So being an early adopter to digital and social media is great, but the learning you took on the importance of a culture, regardless of what sector or industry you're in, the culture can be such a competitive advantage, and that's clearly something that you've lived and brought to life in your different roles in Canada, Joshua  4:38   Absolutely, it was such an empowering and engaging culture. The fantastic leaders that really were people leaders, and it gave everyone an opportunity to to be successful and to be the best versions of themselves. And it was funny because back in that, in that period of time, we were selling digital against all other forms of media. We would literally have packets of 50 to 100 pieces of paper stacked on top of each other with leads that we would call one at a time, and basically try to sell digital media against the other traditional media formats that they were using. It was a really wild time. Alison  5:18   Now, you were brave to take a leap early in your careers, but you've also built a number of platforms from scratch in the Canadian market. So walk us through what it's like and the approach that you took for building something from scratch.  Joshua  5:31   It's really interesting. So, you know, that started with, you know, my being the first employee in Canada for MySpace. What caught my eye is that, you know, MySpace was a platform that not only was I using, but I was such a fan of music, and I used the platform basically to connect with bands that I adored. And came to a realization very quickly that it really was an amazing platform to discover new music. And when I think about the steps that I took myself in terms of that first platform that I worked with, and then to Facebook, and then to TikTok, it really started with sort of building a vision and then inspiring a narrative that really turned heads.  Joshua  6:11   So when you think about MySpace like it was revolutionary, and you know, combined massive scale with unprecedented self expression, allowing brands like tap into like these rich audience data and target consumers through the culture that they were actively creating. It gave your advertisers an opportunity to like tap, you know, right into that, you know, sort of evolving culture that was, that was being created on the internet. You know, then Facebook was sort of captivating advertisers, you know, for uniting like what was real identity with social connectivity and then enabling very precise targeting at scale. You know, Facebook bought Instagram, and you know that totally transformed advertising by merging, like the visual storytelling with aspirational lifestyle. And yeah, that gave brands a seamless way to inspire and influence and connect. Joshua  6:59   And now you fast forward to today with TikTok, which has social components to it, but it's really, you know, entertainment-based. It's really just a playground for, like, infinite discovery and driving culture and allowing brands not to just participate, but to actually help to shape culture. And if you do it right, you know, brands have an opportunity to drive, not only the most important business KPIs, but really disrupt the way that we are perceiving marketing today. Second to that, I  would probably just say that, like hiring the right folks early, because, like, they're going to set the tone and who you are as an organization in the market, and you need to make sure that the conversations that they're having within the market are ones that are going to sort of ease that barrier entry for testing, so that when that first dollar is spent, it's done in a way that is meaningful, they're learning something, and they're able to then move up from sort of that experiences.  Joshua  7:53   A lot of times, I think you have, you have these sort of call it, shiny objects in markets, and marketers always have testing dollars, but if you don't really get anything out of that test, they flop. And that's why you really only see, like, a handful of platforms that are really are getting, you know, significant dollars and having, like, meaningful partnerships with brands today. Alison  8:16   It's great advice, and with the three platforms that you've built in Canada, you've been on the ground floor, but you've also seen some that have gone into phenomenal success and some that failed. So MySpace certainly dominated early but ultimately lost market share. Facebook's become a global giant, and Tiktok has been exploding in recent years. So it's great learning and from a strategic perspective, what were the key differentiators between the platforms succeeding longer term, versus those that didn't. Joshua  8:43   I think MySpace had a really hard time defining itself. If you if you put MySpace and Facebook next to each other, we'll see that MySpace is very much like a, was very much like a social portal, very similar to like a Yahoo, where it was very content-based. You had MySpace Music and MySpace Sports and MySpace News, and there really wasn't much of a focal point, even though music really was its centre. MySpace lost its way, and a lot of that could have also done w

What's your organization doing to help Canadian businesses grow? In a country where 1.2 million small businesses are struggling to remain competitive, and only 12% are using AI technology, the You.Scaled partnership has created a solution. Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, interviews Karla Congson, CEO and Founder of Agentiiv, to explore how this AI accelerator program evolved into a comprehensive partnership between CMA, Agentiiv, Staples, RBC Ownr, and CCNDR - awarding 500 grants to help SMEs and nonprofits harness AI to compete globally. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:23:15 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:23:16 - 00:00:51:09 Alison In today's episode, we explore an exciting new program that the CMA is very proud to be a part of. The program provides much needed support to Canadian Small businesses and not-for-profits. The new you.scaled program, which just launched as part of SME Month in Canada, is an ambitious $5 million AI accelerator program that demonstrates what's possible when organizations unite around a shared vision of empowering our small businesses and not-for-profit communities. 00:00:51:11 - 00:01:17:14 Alison I'm very excited to welcome Karla Congson, the founder and CEO of agentiiv and the visionary who brought the initial idea of you.scaled to the CMA. What makes this story truly remarkable isn't just a really innovative idea. It's also how that idea has been transformed into a national program for the collective strength of strategic partnerships. The program you'll hear about today wouldn't exist without the unique contributions each partner brings to the table. 00:01:17:16 - 00:01:43:12 Alison The CMA is proud to provide the educational foundation through our generative AI training courses, along with significant AI thought leadership and resources, and membership benefits that will help businesses implement these tools effectively. Ownr brings essential business setup and legal expertise. Staples is contributing their extensive reach and business services network and CCNDR are ensuring that we're addressing the nonprofit sector with the same commitment we bring to SMEs. 00:01:43:14 - 00:02:15:03 Alison This partnership matters because the challenge we're addressing is massive. Despite a transformative potential, only 12.2% of Canadian businesses are currently using AI technology, while 73% of SMEs haven't even considered implementing it. Meanwhile, our 1.2 million small businesses, which employ almost 62% of Canada's private workforce and contribute 38% of our private sector GDP, are facing unprecedented pressures to modernize, just to remain competitive. 00:02:15:05 - 00:02:50:04 Alison Karla brings over two decades of experience as a marketing executive and business leader before pivoting into entrepreneurship and hands on AI development. Today's conversation is about much needed support for Canadian SMEs and NFPs. It's also about collective impact and how strategic partnerships can amplify individual innovation to create solutions that no single organization could deliver alone. So whether you're a Canadian small business or not-for-profit looking for ways to leverage AI so you can become even more competitive and deliver business results, or curious about how collaborative programs can help drive economic development, 00:02:50:06 - 00:03:00:13 Alison today's conversation will offer insights into partnership driven innovation that can help reshape how we think about supporting Canadian businesses. Welcome, Karla. It's wonderful to have you here today. 00:03:00:15 - 00:03:03:12 Karla Thanks so much, Alison. It's a privilege to be here. 00:03:03:14 - 00:03:23:04 Alison Now, I want to start with the idea and why it's needed so much. So we know that SMEs are the cornerstone of Canada's economy, and there's no doubt that they've had quite a challenging number of years, everything from the pandemic, challenging economic times and now political uncertainty and tariffs. So to say that they're in need of support is an understatement. 00:03:23:06 - 00:03:34:05 Alison And I know that's a passion for both of us in our organizations. So with that as the backdrop, I'd love you to share more about our newly launched Youth Scale program and how it benefits SMEs. 00:03:34:07 - 00:03:55:09 Karla You're absolutely right, Alison, about SMEs facing unprecedented challenges. I've watched friends and colleagues and these incredible businesses, the backbone of our economy, get hammered by everything from supply chain disruptions to labour shortages. And now so many people come to me and they're telling me that they're watching AI transform their bigger competitors, while they're feeling like it's out of reach. 00:03:55:11 - 00:04:12:20 Karla And the other part of this too, which I can fully relate to as a small business ourselves, is that a small business owner's most valuable commodity is time. We never have enough of it. And not enough time to get on top of AI trends, choose the right tools, invest in training. And that's where you.scaled and its partners come in. 00:04:12:22 - 00:04:41:09 Karla What makes you.scaled unique is the comprehensiveness of the program. Most AI initiatives focus on single solutions, but we envision addressing the entire business ecosystem that small companies need in order to scale. Agentiiv was the catalyst that got the program going, and it all began with an idea and a desire to really make a difference. We're giving away $4 million of market value of our own services to provide an enterprise grade AI platform with 100 specialized agents. 00:04:41:11 - 00:05:16:15 Karla And the CMA plays such a critical role in this by providing AI training, marketing education, distribution, robust thought leadership, and membership benefits. RBC Ownr handles all the business set up, the legal support and financial services. Staples provides operational backbone with business services, and CCNDR ensures nonprofit participants get specialized support. So when a small manufacturer in Saskatoon can suddenly compete with enterprise level efficiency, or a nonprofit in Nova Scotia can augment their donor communications to focus on mission critical work, 00:05:16:20 - 00:05:22:18 Karla W e're collectively building a Canada where small businesses can compete on a world stage. 00:05:22:20 - 00:05:41:22 Alison Building on that, when you first envisioned the you.scaled program at agentiiv, you realized that it could become something much bigger through partnership. So I'd love you to walk us through that evolution from when you first conceived the idea, to what made you realize that you needed partnerships to really make it scale to the degree that you hoped it would. 00:05:42:00 - 00:06:10:12 Karla Well the evolution of you.scaled really started with a fundamental question. Who else is as passionate about helping Canadian small businesses succeed as we are at agentiiv, being a Canadian small business ourselves? And I knew that for this to work, I needed partners who shared that core mission. And our first reach out was to the CMA. The Canadian Marketing Association was and is the perfect first partner because they have trust and educational credibility with the business community. 00:06:10:14 - 00:06:40:12 Karla When I approached the CMA, they immediately understood that AI literacy was becoming as fundamental as digital literacy was a decade ago, and they had already prepared several programs to that end. Staples brought something crucial - the physical business services and operational support that growing companies need. Their contribution evolved the program by supporting their broader operations through print services for marketing campaigns, discounts and office supplies for expansion, business services for operational growth. 00:06:40:18 - 00:07:06:09 Karla Staples filled the practical gaps and execution. RBC Ownr provided essential services that help businesses get started. They provide the incorporation or business set up done online, in minutes, at a fraction of the cost and complexity of going to a traditional firm. And CCNDR, the Canadian Council for Nonprofit Directors, which is a division of Imagine Canada, brought the nonprofit perspective. 00:07:06:15 - 00:07:29:05 Karla This partnership ensured we weren't just creating a program for small businesses. We're building something that strengthens entire communities. What's beautiful about how each partner's contribution made the others more effective was that the program evolved from just, you know, free AI access, if it had just been us, to comprehensive business transformation, something that none of us individually could have created alone. 00:07:29:05 - 00:07:38:13 Karla But together we built something that genuinely addresses the full spectrum of what Canadian SMEs and nonprofits need to thrive in an AI-driven economy. 00:07:38:15 - 00:07:58:01 Alison So it's clear that there are a robust array of benefits for the SMEs and the not-for-profits that are successful in obtaining the grants. It's also clear that this is a pretty complex partnership with quite different types of organizations. So what was the most challenging aspect of aligning such diverse organizational cultures around a single program and vision? 00:07:58:03 - 00:08:34:10 Karla Well, it's funny, orchestrating these different organizational partners has actually been easier than you might think. And here's why. We started with a group of organizations that shared a fundamental, common mission, putting their resources to work to help Canadian small businesses succeed. Each partner immediately understood their individual impact could be exponentially greater through collaboration. The most challenging aspect, and honestly

Does working hard still help achieve your dreams? In today's episode, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, interviews two strategists from Leo Burnett Toronto: Tahir Ahmad, Chief Strategy Officer, and Sarah Carpentier, PhD, Senior Strategist. Their focus is the 2025 HumanKind Study, revealing how Canadians feel about work and life. When 83% of people don't believe hard work will pay off, the connection between effort and reward has changed - and brands should understand why. 7085B3-CMAPodcast - Ep. 53 - Tahir Ahmad and Sarah Carpentier === [00:00:00] Presenter: Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. [00:00:27] Alison: If you're a marketer wondering how to connect with people who are stressed, uncertain, and frankly just trying to get through the day, well you are definitely not alone. Today, we're diving into Leo Toronto's HumanKind Study with Tahir Ahmad and Dr. Sarah Carpentier. Tahir serves as Chief Strategy Officer at Leo Toronto. [00:00:45] Alison: He's also the original vision behind their highly insightful HumanKind study. It's research that delves into how Canadians are feeling and key trends, including what's keeping consumers up at night. And there are quite a few things keeping us up at night right now. Sarah made the leap from PhD student and management consulting to agency behavioural scientist a little over two years ago, bringing her doctorate in psychology to Leo Toronto, where she's a senior strategist and a principal force behind the HumanKind study. [00:01:12] Alison: Now in its fourth year, the HumanKind study dives deep into the emotional undercurrent, opportunities and genuine challenges that are facing Canadians today. A few of the themes that we are gonna cover off include Social Stage Fright, Hustle to Nowhere, and Alexa, what is critical thinking. This year, the study also focused on younger Canadians, age 16 to 45, and took a closer look at newcomers to help uncover the emotional undercurrents that are shaping the next generation. [00:01:40] Alison: It's also the second year that the study expanded beyond Canada to the U.S. to help us really understand how Canadians compare to and differ from Americans. Given the uncertainty with tariffs and the renewed Canadian patriotism, this view is both very timely and sure to provide some fascinating insights to make today's discussion both informative and actionable. [00:01:58] Alison: Sarah and Tahir will also share what brands can do to help Canadians address their concerns and needs. Welcome Sarah and Tahir. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here today.  Sarah: Thank you.  [00:02:07] Tahir: Thanks Alison. It's great to be back. I know we did this last year, so super excited to share the fourth edition.  [00:02:15] Alison: I'm looking forward to it too. Now, Sarah, since you're new this year and you have an unconventional path to our profession, uh, before we dive into the study, I would really love to hear what attracted you from being a PhD to the wonderful world of marketing and agency life, and also share a bit about what the transition's been like. [00:02:30] Sarah: Oh, that's a fun question. Okay, so yeah, I think my day to days have changed a little bit. I definitely know a lot more cross industry jargon or I'm really, really collecting it as I go through life. But ultimately everything I've always done at school or at any point in my career is still always ultimately about understanding why people think, feel, and act the way they do, and then how I can use that knowledge to help, you know, improve lives. [00:03:00] Sarah: So it really all ladders up to the same thing and it, we really understand how it all goes together. I left the PhD world, it was wonderful. But as much as I love research on its own, I really felt quite disconnected from doing something with what was being learned. So I wanted to kind of go out in the world a little bit and help share that knowledge with the people who can benefit from it. [00:03:21] Sarah: And I think on face value, it can seem a bit out of place for a scientist to want to seek out working at a creative agency. But I know that if you listen to the data and if you listen to the science, then it tells us that human creativity is a really essential ingredient in really connecting people to ideas and creating new ideas that actually move people. [00:03:45] Sarah: Right. And I really wanted to be a part of that. And when I heard about the HumanKind study and I met Tahir, and I met Ryan Roberts, our SVP of Strategy as well. I loved the way that they thought. I was like, they think like me. They get it. This isn't just something they say, this is actually something they really, really care about and live and breathe. [00:04:02] Sarah: And so I was really excited to join the team.  [00:04:04] Alison: It's absolutely great to have you in our profession. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the HumanKind study today. So Tahir, let's start by having you share a little bit about the study and how it's evolved over the four years.  [00:04:14] Tahir: It's pretty amazing to be here four years in, I guess, now already starting to plan the fifth year. [00:04:19] Tahir: So the fifth edition is in the works, which is great. And I, I know that we did this last year and we've appeared, I think on the CMA conference a couple years in a row. So maybe there are some people familiar with the study, but, just to very quickly go, you know, to its, its origin. It really fell out of this need to have more Canadian research at hand and, and frankly, our philosophy at Leo is all around humankind and the intimate and deep understanding of human beings and what they need and want and what they dream about, fear and everything that they care about in terms of improving the quality of their life. [00:04:56] Tahir: And, you know, we just felt as though we never really had this, you know, data that we could go to, uh, and mine that really reflects the mindset of the country. You know, we do research bespoke for clients or particular briefs, and so to truly say that we understand Canadians and human beings better than anyone else, you know, we wanted to create something more proprietary that we could draw from each and every day. [00:05:24] Tahir: And so that was a bit of a fumbly way of saying how we got to the first edition. And it was very much a, off the side of the desks, you know, we just tried to pull together, uh, as much data as we could. And you can imagine that it's kind of like boiling the ocean. And so over time we've just gotten better and smarter and more efficient at distilling the findings into something that really gets at, uh, perhaps a sharper point of view and what Canadians are thinking and feeling and more [00:05:50] Tahir: importantly, the way that brands can help solve for those problems and those needs in their lives. And so for this fourth edition, we did change things up a little bit, as you mentioned, off the top. We tried to focus on a younger demos, and Sarah, I'm sure will correct me, as she should, but it was 18 to 45. [00:06:06] Tahir: I want, no, sorry, 16 to 45.  Sarah: Sixteen! Tahir: Yes. Yeah. Sixteen. First correction of the podcast. But yeah, so I, the 16 to 45, which is really intentional on our part because we've had so many conversations with our client partners around not just Gen Z, but even Gen Alpha. And I know that that age range doesn't necessarily tip into that demo, but it just helped us get to a perspective from a segment of the population that is typically hard to hear from. [00:06:35] Tahir: And so it required a bit more effort and you know, a real conscious effort to hear from those voices because you know, as you can imagine with 16, 17, 18 year olds, they're not always so willing to share their point of view or what they fear in life or what they're going through. And I think that was like, what was really eyeopening for us in this edition is when you're starting to see the anxieties and the tensions that not only those of us who are [00:07:00] Tahir: living life as adults with kids and the pressures of careers and retirement looming for some people, these are people that are really just starting out their lives and to have a better understanding of what they're already struggling with was really eye-opening.  [00:07:14] Alison: I'm looking forward to diving into those results for sure. [00:07:17] Alison: You also have a longer lens view, uh, and through four fairly tumultuous years, certainly COVID, post-COVID, now the economic uncertainty. So what are some of the key changes that you've seen for Canadians given how tumultuous the time has been?  [00:07:32] Tahir: Yes. I mean, it's interesting. When we first started this, it was hard to get away from, uh, some of those more macro issues that people were struggling with. [00:07:40] Tahir: Certainly COVID, we started it before COVID, we launched it during COVID. So what we were seeing in terms of feelings of isolation, concerns about, obviously health and safety were big themes in those first few years. And then, you know, last year we saw again the financial uncertainty really, um, be a big factor in people's lives and, and whether or not, you know, they're gonna actually have enough to even, you know, survive, frankly. [00:08:08] Tahir: This year what we saw was this interesting emerging theme that was through all the different, let's call them sub themes of problems and issues people were facing. So previously we would've had what I would call just, uh, various themes that made up the top problems people were facing. So you could think about the environment, financial situations people were in, their health and wellness, the healthcare system, and so on here in Canada. [00:08:3

Traditional teaching methods are changing, and the skills future marketers need are evolving faster than universities can adapt. How can post-secondary institutions prepare students for a profession where change is the only constant? In today's episode, CEO of the CMA Alison Simpson interviews Kyle Murray, Dean of the Lazaridis School of Business and Economics at Wilfred Laurier University. Kyle's approach: Embrace experiential learning, integrate Generative AI, and prioritize uniquely human skills such as adaptability and emotional intelligence. His most important insight? Cultivate a 'forever student' mindset - because in marketing, the most valuable skill is learning. [00:00:00] Presenter: Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. [00:00:26] Alison: For today's episode, I'm pleased to welcome Kyle Murray, the Dean of the Lazaridis School of Business and Economics at Wilfred Laurier University. Kyle took over as Dean in July of 2024 after a distinguished career at the University of Alberta School of Business, where he served as the acting Dean with a PhD in marketing and psychology. [00:00:44] Alison: Kyle brings deep expertise in innovation and behavioural change, utilizing experimental psychology and behavioural economics to better understand the choices that people make. He's consulted with clients in government and Fortune 50 companies and also been a founder, advisor investor in a series of startups. [00:01:02] Alison: In his new role as Dean, Kyle is focused on expanding the university's leadership and experiential learning, also in engaging alumni and enriching a culture of innovation that encourages risk-taking and challenges convention. With generative AI and other technological disruptions reshaping how we educate future marketers and the skills that they'll need to succeed, this culture is even more important than ever before. [00:01:25] Alison: Kyle's recent transition from Alberta to Ontario has also given him some fresh insights into regional differences in our Canadian education system, as well as their impact on business talent development. And this is one of the many topics that we will discuss today. Kyle, I'm really looking forward to a great conversation, and it's an absolute pleasure to share the mic with you today on CMA Connect. [00:01:46] Kyle: Thanks, Alison. I'm really excited to be here. I'm a big fan of CMA and my first time on the podcast, so yeah, I'm looking forward to it.  [00:01:53] Alison: Kyle, I'd love to start by hearing your story. First, what drew you to higher education and teaching the marketing profession?  [00:01:59] Kyle: Yeah, I think it's just, I love learning and I really enjoy the university environment. I'm a researcher at heart and I like the scientific method. [00:02:08] Kyle: This time of year, especially, the university is just such an exciting and energizing place to be, so that's really what drew me into it. I actually started my career as an entrepreneur. I was involved in a few startups, and that sounds better than it is. What really happened was I graduated in the early 1990s with an undergraduate degree in psychology. [00:02:28] Kyle: And I could not find a job, so I had to start my own, make my own job, start my own business. But that, that worked out well because after a few different endeavours, I was able to sell them and that allowed me to go back to get a PhD. So I suddenly found myself with some time and a little bit of money and flexibility, and so I went back to get a PhD. [00:02:48] Kyle: I still wasn't entirely sure what I'd do. I knew I liked research. I didn't know how I'd like teaching in the university environment. I taught my first class. I fell in love with it. I got a great job offer here in Southern Ontario, actually at the Ivey School at Western Ontario, and that's where I started my career. [00:03:04] Kyle: And I've been in academia ever since. Marketing in particular, I think I was drawn to just because I find people fascinating. My, my background was in psychology as well as marketing. So just consumers and consumer decision making, why they do what they do. I still find it fascinating and I'll probably never get tired of asking questions about that. [00:03:25] Alison: I love that, in many ways, necessity is the mother of invention. You graduated in a challenging economy and created your own path, which is amazing. I also love that you've got that entrepreneurial and builder mentality and experience, and then came back to higher education, because I think having that real world experience is so powerful for educating the marketers of tomorrow as well. [00:03:49] Kyle: I agree. I think it's a helpful mindset to have, but I have to say sometimes it's a mindset that bumps up against the bureaucracy that is a large university or even a mid-sized university. It can be challenging at times as you wanna move quickly, and one of the things I've really had to learn is patience. [00:04:04] Kyle: Things don't move as fast in a big organization as they do when it's a small shop. And I think I've learned that over time to some extent. But it's still certainly a challenge.  [00:04:13] Alison: Before joining the CMA I spent four years in the startup world. It really is about evolve or die. So I can absolutely relate to needing to relearn some patience when I came back to a bigger organization for sure. [00:04:25] Alison: So I know you've worked in Ireland and Australia as well as Canada, so I'd love you to share any differences that you've seen and how marketing's taught internationally compared to how we teach it here.  [00:04:35] Kyle: Yeah, good question. I was also in France for a little while, but I was at INSEAD, so it was an English program, which luckily for me 'cause [00:04:42] Kyle: my French is terrible. So that was, I had enough trouble just getting groceries. I wouldn't want to teach in French, but there's small differences regionally for sure. Like I would say both Ireland and France, you get some of that European flavour. There's a different perspective on the world, certainly geopolitically, and Australia too, a little bit more of a Commonwealth and maybe Asian influences there. [00:05:05] Kyle: But t the end of the day, whenever I taught marketing or taught people about marketing in any of these places, it just comes down to the same thing that we'd always talk about anywhere is, you need to understand your customer and then find some way to create some compelling value for them. And there's some, there's definitely some cultural pieces there that are different. [00:05:23] Kyle: What might be compelling in Ireland is different than what's compelling in Canada some of the time. But at the core it's just trying to understand people.  [00:05:30] Alison: That's a great reminder that as much as the world around us is different, as much as technology and other things are changing, how we market the basics are still mission critical. [00:05:40] Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And I think we get challenged sometimes with changes in the world, whether it's tariff policies or new technologies, and it is easy to get caught up in those things because they're so important and they're so immediately critical. But we're still very much people-driven. [00:05:57] Kyle: Commerce is still people-driven, it's relationship-driven. It's that understanding people, understanding customers, understanding clients, why they buy what they're buying, what's gonna motivate them, that's really universal, at least in the western world. Might be a little bit different if you get into the Middle East or Asia. [00:06:13] Kyle: But in the Western world it, it's pretty much the same. [00:06:17] Alison: Now after a very successful decade teaching at the Alberta School of Business, what attracted you to make the move to Waterloo last year?  [00:06:24] Kyle: This is gonna be a bit of a biased a response, but really I'd known about the Lazaridis School for a while, the Bachelor of Business Administration Program, [00:06:32] Kyle: the BBA program in particular, is truly one of the best in the world. They're global leaders here in undergraduate education and especially experiential education, and I thought this was really important. My view was the future of education in business, and, but maybe in other fields too is experiential. [00:06:50] Kyle: It's more and more learning by doing, so we can adapt quickly. We learn some of those people skills that we need in organizations. Lazaridis is very good at that. So it's a big part of what attracted me. I have to say that some of it is also just timing. Both my daughters were at an age where they could be independent and that freed my wife and I up to consider making a move. [00:07:11] Kyle: I also, I always liked Ontario and I like Southern Ontario and I've enjoyed being, close to Toronto, but also having the tech community around here in Waterloo, there's just I think a lot of exciting things going on. And when it comes to the students themselves, we have really strong demand for this program, but we're also really good at placing students. [00:07:31] Kyle: And so if you're a Dean, it's nice to come to a place where, we had 12,000 people apply for 1500 spots last year. And when they graduate, we place 97% of them. So that is a foundation. Really makes my job a lot easier. And so that was a big part of why I was drawn here.  [00:07:50] Alison: The proof points are incredibly compelling. [00:07:52] Alison: That job placement rate, gotta be one of the best in the world, so congratulations for that.  [00:07:56] Kyle: Yeah. And so just continue that plug maybe a little bit is, one of the things that, that I worry about, being in a university setting is youth unemployment in general ha

Marketers have a lot to lose. With complaints surging, mistakes can lead to hefty fines while playing it safe can limit innovation and creativity. So what can they do? CMA CEO Alison Simpson sits down with Steven Harroun, Vice President, Compliance and Enforcement at the CRTC to see where the complaints are coming from, and share the strategies marketers use to stay both competitive and compliant. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:28:05 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:28:07 - 00:01:00:20 Alison It's my pleasure to welcome Steven Harroun, a regulatory leader whose expertise sits at the critical intersection of marketing compliance and consumer protection in Canada's digital landscape. As a Vice President, Compliance and Enforcement at the CRTC, Steven oversees the enforcement of laws and regulations that directly impact how Canadian marketers operate, including CASL, Canada Anti-Spam Legislation and the Unsolicited Telecommunication Rules, including the National Do Not Call list, which both shape the daily practices of marketing professionals in Canada. 00:01:00:22 - 00:01:34:13 Alison While Steven's primary role focuses on regulatory enforcement, his unique position makes him an invaluable voice for marketers navigating Canada's complex compliance landscape. Steven and his team are highly valuable partners to the CMA. He has written articles for us addressing the practical challenges that marketers face when contacting Canadian consumers, while ensuring they're staying compliant with federal regulations. Steven's recent article "From CASL to unsolicited calls: Insights for marketers", really demonstrates his commitment to helping marketing professionals understand and adapt to evolving regulatory requirements. 00:01:34:15 - 00:01:59:06 Alison Steven brings over two decades of experience in telecommunications policy and regulation, having joined the CRTC in 2002 after working at the Canada Revenue Agency and in the private sector. Through his work, Steven has developed international partnerships with regulators worldwide, creating memoranda of Understanding that help enforce Canadian marketing laws across borders, which is a critical capability in today's global digital marketing environment. 00:01:59:08 - 00:02:05:03 Alison Steven, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to an engaging and insightful conversation. 00:02:05:05 - 00:02:21:22 Steven Thank you Alison. That's probably too kind of an introduction, but I appreciate it. And I truly appreciate the invitation. Like, engagements like this are like one of the favourite parts of my role in the organization. And, if I could do one of these every day, I would. So, no, I look forward to the discussion. 00:02:21:23 - 00:02:42:23 Alison Thank you. Now, Steven, the CMA and the CRTC have a long- standing, very collaborative relationship, from coauthoring thought leadership to working on key consumer choice initiatives. Building on that foundation of shared understanding, what do you see as the most important evolution in the dialog between regulators and the marketing community over the past few years? 00:02:43:01 - 00:03:14:12 Steven Yeah, I, let me start with something probably your members already know. But the CRTC, you know, we're an independent quasi judicial administrative tribunal, right? So we regulate communications in Canada in the public interest. We hold public consultations on like telecommunications and broadcasting matters, and we make decisions based on a public record. Now, if you turn to my role at the CRTC, which is a little bit unique, and it is unique to kind of have an enforcement arm embedded within the communications regulator, and I was gonna  say perhaps I'll get to tell you later about the advantages of that. 00:03:14:14 - 00:03:33:17 Steven But, you know, I am responsible and accountable for promoting compliance, as you said, with Canada's anti=spam  legislation in which we affectionately call CASL. And if you actually went to look at the real name of that legislation it's about 42 words long, so CASL works really well, as well as the unsolicited telecommunications roles, which includes our national Do Not Call list. 00:03:33:17 - 00:03:50:09 Steven Right. So that's which is kind of probably a key piece, you know, for your members here. I'm super proud, and I, you know, I started this by saying, I appreciate the invitation, but I'm, I'm super proud of kind of the relationship that we have with industry and specifically the CMA, because I feel like it's very longstanding for me, which is great. 00:03:50:09 - 00:04:09:16 Steven I think one of my first engagements when I stepped into this chair a few years ago was with the CMA. So I'm glad we've been able to continue this discussion, because educating on compliance, ensuring that marketers understand their obligations, take that bigger, just ensuring that all kind of legitimate companies in Canada understand the rules of the road, if you will. 00:04:09:18 - 00:04:34:05 Steven That's key to the success rate. Compliance is key to my success. So at the end of the day, if the more and more outreach activities like this that we do and you're right, we've done vlogs, we're doing this, you know, maybe next year I'll get to do some in-person thing with you guys, perhaps something that's, on the radar. But it's actually these collaborations and these unique opportunities where I get to kind of, you know, talk about, well, this is the world as I see it today. 00:04:34:10 - 00:04:57:18 Steven You know, and kind of the premise of your question was exactly that, like today. So I look back and I look back and, you know, I look back ten years and go, the things that we were seeing then and the complaints that we were seeing then from Canadians and the environment in which we're operating, we're very much focused on telemarketing and people getting calls and people, you know, I was going to say deciding whether or not they wanted to get calls right?  00:04:57:19 - 00:05:20:06 Steven Now, ironically, you know, it's ten years since CASL came into force this year, just in July. So that dialog has changed, right? Even over, even with your organization over the past decade, that dialog has changed. We are now talking about not just about calls. We are now talking about emails, and we're talking about SMS and we're talking about other digital platforms, perhaps that we hadn't even contemplated the early days of CASL. 00:05:20:11 - 00:05:41:00 Steven Right? We were talking about will you agree to get my email that's exploded kind of exponentially, even just from that, from that side of the house. So I think that's interesting to me, and I think that's fascinating as far as a landscape perspective goes, the legislation on the telemarketing side is 20 years old. You know, the even on CASL now, it's actually hard to believe for me to say that that's ten years old. 00:05:41:02 - 00:06:01:11 Steven But the environment in which we, you know, we ensure compliance within those regimes has just changed dramatically. And I look at, from my organization and if I look at kind of how we're trying to approach that. We, and I'm sure and I'm sure we'll get into this discussion, like your members have had to totally change things up completely. Like we, in the last ten years 00:06:01:11 - 00:06:17:17 Steven I built up a technical forensics team, you know, and I, you know, and I have a whole group of people now who, who slice and dice all the intelligence that we receive. But, you know, then we also have to look at when we're doing major investigations, we have to look at people's devices. And we have to understand, I was going to say, I'm no engineer, right? 00:06:17:17 - 00:06:35:02 Steven I'm really lucky, or a techie engineer. I'm really lucky that I get to lead a really great team of really cool, really technical people. But they can look at all this coding and they can look, you know, behind the screen and they can tell me like, oh, this is happening and this is where this is and this, which, which fascinates me. 00:06:35:02 - 00:06:53:18 Steven And if you told me ten years ago I'd lead a team of forensics experts, I would have, I would have said, I must be changing jobs, but I'm not, because that's just how much the environment has changed which I think it's really cool. But then I, you know, if I go to where your members are sitting and the things that they need to do, it isn't just calling Canadians about something, right? 00:06:53:18 - 00:07:09:19 Steven It's how are we reaching Canadians on so many different levels in so many different platforms? And most importantly for me, because I go back to my compliance roots, is how are we respecting Canadians' choices? Like how are we respect, like this is how I want to be engaged, and this is how often I want to be engaged. And you know what? 00:07:09:22 - 00:07:26:11 Steven I don't want to be engaged anymore. Right? Like that's the other side of that. So I, you know, it's easy for me to sit here as, you know, the Vice President of Compliance and Enforcement and say, do this, do this, do this and respect this, respect this, respect this. But I also, I understand, I was gonna say I worked in private sector at the early start in my career. 00:07:26:11 - 00:07:45:16 Steven Actually, I understand the other side of that where it's like, okay, but we want to push all the levers we can, obviously, to get our message out. So that, to me, that the technological space and how much things have evolved in our conversations over the ten years is really fascinating to me. And I'll be honest, what keeps my team up at night is actually the more nefarious actors in this space, right? 00:07:45:16 - 00:08:08:06 Steven

What does it take to rise from your first marketing role to CEO of a major communications company? In today's episode, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Richard Kellam, who transformed his career from marketer to President & CEO of DATA Communications Management Corp. (DCM). Richard reveals how he leveraged transferable skills to make the jump to CPG, secured international opportunities, and how he evolved from Chief Customer Officer to CEO. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:28:10 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:28:12 - 00:01:00:08 Alison In today's episode, it's my pleasure to welcome Richard Kellam, who represents one of marketing's most desirable success stories. A CMO who successfully transitioned to global and national president and CEO roles. This is still far too much of a rarity in our profession. Richard is president and CEO of Data Communications Management Corp., commonly known as DCM. His journey from brand manager to chief executive spans three decades, eight different countries and leading marketing, sales and ultimately the top job for tier one brands. 00:01:00:10 - 00:01:26:12 Alison Richard's career progression through marketing leadership roles at Molson, Wrigley, Mars and Goodyear, combined with strategic moves into sales and general management positions, provides a really wonderful blueprint for ambitious marketing professionals seeking to expand their influence beyond the marketing role. At DCM, Richard is proving that marketing-trained CEOs bring truly unique advantages to leadership roles, particularly in today's customer-centric, digitally driven business environment. 00:01:26:14 - 00:02:00:05 Alison He's leading DCM's transformation from a traditional print company to a tech enabled marketing solutions provider, demonstrating how his marketing background provides crucial insights into customer needs as well as market trends and brand positioning. His career offers inspiration and practical guidance for many talented CMOs who aspire to CEO roles, but often find the path unclear. Richard's proved that with the right experiences, mindset shifts and strategic career moves, the transition from CMO to CEO is not only possible, but can be a very natural evolution for marketing leaders. 00:02:00:07 - 00:02:03:13 Alison Richard, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you today. 00:02:03:15 - 00:02:05:15 Richard Thanks for having me, Alison. Appreciate it. 00:02:05:17 - 00:02:18:15 Alison And Richard and I first met very early in our careers. He was at Molson and I was the VP at McLaren. McCann overseeing the Molson account. So it's been a long journey together. And Richard, it's been really amazing to watch your path. 00:02:18:17 - 00:02:21:10 Richard Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, it was a lot of fun working together many years ago. 00:02:21:12 - 00:02:30:16 Alison So I'd love you to take us to your first job in marketing and how you thought about your career. In those early days, did you ever consider the possibility of becoming a CEO? 00:02:30:18 - 00:02:54:23 Richard I'm not sure I even knew what CEO meant back then. So I guess the answer to your question is no. I never really thought it was, it was possible. My actually first job at university was in sales for a company called Playtex. Actually, I applied for the job, but I"m really gonna date myself here. But it was in a classified ad in the Globe and Mail, right? 00:02:55:02 - 00:03:13:18 Richard Who remembers that? And I applied for the job, went in and interviewed for it and successfully got the role. They actually had two divisions. They had a they called it a family products mission. They had an intimate apparel division, and I was hired for the intimate apparel division. So I'm sure people know the Playtex products in that division and started in sales. Had a combination of, key accounts. 00:03:13:18 - 00:03:33:16 Richard A lot of the accounts aren't even in the market anymore. Simpson's, Eaton's, Sears. Of course, none of those are around. Kmart, Woolworths, which Walmart acquired. And then I had a bunch of independent accounts in downtown Toronto as well. So I did that for the for the first year and thankfully ended up being quite successful. I actually won rookie of the year, which is quite fun. 00:03:33:16 - 00:03:43:16 Richard And then after one year I was moved into marketing and I was an assistant brand manager on a few brands in Playtex. So that was my start in my marketing journey, you know, quite a while ago in the mid 80s. 00:03:43:18 - 00:04:05:01 Alison I definitely remember the days of classified ads and all of the retailers you mentioned. So we're certainly of the same vintage. I also worked in sales earlier in my career, and I think it's such a powerful view to have, especially early in your career, and can really shape your approach to marketing. So building on that, what experience or skills did you gain in that first sales and marketing role that have served you well throughout your career? 00:04:05:03 - 00:04:31:12 Richard So the biggest skill I gained on the marketing side was the importance of data analytics in business intelligence, on the sales side as well. And this was a days where computers were just being introduced to business and nobody had their own personal computer. Back to my point where I won this, this rookie of the year sales award. Actually, I got a trip to Jamaica, so my wife and I went to Jamaica, and on that trip I read a book on how to use Excel. 00:04:31:14 - 00:04:44:23 Richard So I learned Excel from a from a book because I didn't have a computer. So I was sitting on a beach for the week, just reading about how to use Excel. And when I got back to the office, they had a computer room. So you didn't have a computer at your desk. You had a computer room. And I started to apply that 00:04:44:23 - 00:05:05:08 Richard learning to learn how to use Excel, because I knew that data analytics and business intelligence was extremely important in marketing or important in business. So I, I've been kind of a numbers guy or a data guy or an analyst guy or business intelligence guy, kind of for my whole career, using data and insights to create value for a business. 00:05:05:08 - 00:05:27:10 Richard So that was really defining, I'd say, point for me in my career, and it's certainly been kind of central to my skill and capability as I've progressed. And I'd say the other key competency or attribute, I'm, my archetype is an explorer. So I like to learn new things and see new things and discover new things. So I'm a very curious business leader as well. 00:05:27:10 - 00:05:39:14 Richard So curiosity, while I was in that sales role or in that early stage entry level marketing role, was an important competency and that really contributed to my success as well. In addition to the data analytics and business intelligence. 00:05:39:16 - 00:06:00:19 Alison Curiosity and the constantly learning is such a mission critical skill and mindset for anyone in marketing. I think it's always been the case, but given how the pace of change is accelerated around us, it is absolute mission critical. So following Playtex, you moved into the first of many marketing roles in the CPG industry, starting with Robin Hood Foods and then later Wrigley. 00:06:00:21 - 00:06:03:11 Alison What made that move possible for you? 00:06:03:13 - 00:06:23:07 Richard I actually worked for a guy who came out of, Procter and Gamble. So that was my first boss at Playtex, and he talked a lot about, you know, kind of the CPG space and the learning and the development and the skill and capability that they build. And so I thought, you know, I had this opportunity come by for Robin Hood Multifoods was a recruiter, headhunter that was calling me and talk to me about this role. 00:06:23:07 - 00:06:41:22 Richard So that was kind of an interesting role and, and a good opportunity for me to kind of expand my horizon into a new category. Interesting thing about Robin Hood, again, that was kind of my entry into CPG. But if you think about it, I was the brand manager on Robin Hood Flour. So you can't get a more commoditized business, right? 00:06:41:22 - 00:07:02:12 Richard Salt, sugar, flour those are all commodities. So to really understand the category and how to create value in a highly commoditized category was huge learning for me. And, and it was a lot of fun, actually, at the same time. And we had a really good run on Robin Hood Flour. The brand had a great success and proven that marketing does, you know, deliver value, especially in a highly commoditized category like that. 00:07:02:12 - 00:07:07:11 Richard Right. Brand is everything. So learned a lot there. And then obviously applied that learning as I progressed. 00:07:07:13 - 00:07:14:09 Alison And you went on to spend the bulk of your career in CPG. So what were the keys to your advancement and success? 00:07:14:11 - 00:07:35:11 Richard Yeah. Coming back to what I said earlier, you know, my curiosity, my explorer archetype, really kind of wanted to understand and discover new opportunities to build value in a business or value in a brand. Those, I'd say, would be my key success factors as I move through my career. Also, I was known as the "just do it" guy. 00:07:35:13 - 00:07:57:06 Richard In other words, I wasn't afraid to to do things and try things and not afraid to make mistakes. I always had a strong bias to action. Thankfully, I did more things right than wrong so that, that contributed to my success as well, but clearly made a lot of mistakes in my career as well and learned from those mistakes and then applied that learning to new, you know, to new activity moving forward. 00:07:57:08 - 00:08:13:05 Alison The "just do it" guy

What does it take to transform how an entire country thinks about sleep? In this episode, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Nuno Bamberg, Senior Vice President, Brand and Marketing at Sleep Country Canada. Nuno is the Brazilian-born, Canadian-made marketing leader behind Sleep Country Canada's cultural transformation. From his family's creative agency roots in Brazil to building brand portfolios that balance legacy with bold innovation, Nuno shares why curiosity beats caution, how to fail fast and iterate faster, and what Sleep Country's acquisition of UK's Simba Sleep reveals about scaling values across borders. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:08 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:43:06 Alison In today's episode, we're diving into a story that in many ways embodies the modern Canadian dream. From a 16-year old Brazilian exchange student in small town Ontario to the marketing executive who's transforming one of Canada's most beloved brands. I'm thrilled to welcome Nuno Bamberg, Senior Vice President of Brand and Marketing at Sleep Country Canada, to our podcast today. 00:00:43:08 - 00:01:07:22 Alison Nuno oversees marketing strategies for Sleep Country, Dormez-Vous, Bloom, Endy, Hush, Casper and Silk and Snow, as well as the new retail store, the rest. His Canadian story began at age 16 as an exchange student in Bracebridge, Ontario, an experience that planted the seeds for his eventual emigration to Canada with his family as an adult. This was driven by his belief in both Canadian values as well as the opportunities our country represents. 00:01:08:00 - 00:01:37:06 Alison Like me, Nuno started his career at agencies before moving to the brand side. Before he joined Sleep Country Canada and spent nine years as the SVP, Chief Content and Production Officer at Publicis Group Canada, where he helped nearly double the agency's size while working with iconic brands like The Home Depot, Rogers and Canadian Tire. Since making the move to Sleep Country in 2023, Nuno has been transforming how Canadians think about sleep, elevating it well beyond a commodity purchase to a critical component of our health and wellness. 00:01:37:08 - 00:02:06:20 Alison Today, we'll explore how Nuno is driving this cultural shift around sleep and wellness, and redefining what it means to honour legacy while embracing bold innovations in today's dynamic and, at times, very challenging retail landscape. This week, his team launched their latest innovation, and Nuno will share a bit about what led to the bold new approach. So whether you're interested in the agency to client career transition, or how an established Canadian brand can innovate while honouring their legacy, today's conversation promises to both be inspiring and actionable. 00:02:06:22 - 00:02:09:01 Alison Without further ado, welcome, Nuno. 00:02:09:03 - 00:02:18:01 Nuno Thank you. And for the CMA and CMA Connect team for having me today. I'm excited to be here sharing a little bit about myself, my journey to Canada, and my professional experience in Canada. 00:02:18:03 - 00:02:25:20 Alison So, you know, I would love to start by having you share what brought you from Brazil to Canada originally, and why you chose Canada over so many other countries. 00:02:25:22 - 00:02:53:15 Nuno The first time I came to Canada, as you mentioned, it was when I was 16 years of age. And frankly, at that time, I was really focused on going somewhere where I didn't know anyone. I know it was a little weird, but that's really what I wanted. I wanted to go somewhere where I had no family, no friends, no safety net, and that would force me just to get out of my comfort zone and quite frankly, immerse myself fully into a new culture, a new language, daily habits, daily rituals, and an entire new way of life, if you will. 00:02:53:16 - 00:03:10:14 Nuno And I've always been that way. I always been incredibly curious about people in general. Like I always, as a kid, saw myself observing someone down the street and kind of pictured in my brain, what do they come from? What do they do? What's their background? And so I want to live that myself, because I had family in the U.S., that ruled out the U.S. all together. 00:03:10:16 - 00:03:33:22 Nuno I really wanted us, you know, clean slate, not a soft landing. And so I didn't want to fall back into the Portuguese, nor, because I didn't know English all that well, I wanted to fall back into my comfort zone. And so Canada became an obvious choice because it allowed me to grow, to expand, find a new version of myself if that makes sense, while also being able to encounter a new culture, which was something fairly new to me. 00:03:34:00 - 00:03:54:08 Nuno And what quickly stood out to me was the Canadian people. As a 16 year old going to Bracebridge at that time, there was no Google, there was no bing, there was Ask Jeeves. I knew nothing about Bracebridge, nor Canada, and within the week I knew everyone. And so the incredible kindness and open-mindedness with which Canadians received me at that time kind of stuck with me. 00:03:54:08 - 00:04:10:16 Nuno And so the second time I thought about leaving Brazil, fast forward to 2015, we had just had our second child a year before, and when my wife and I were in the decision of do we want to raise a family outside of Brazil, we have family in the U.S., so that felt like a natural place to go to. And my wife had never been to Canada before. 00:04:10:16 - 00:04:27:12 Nuno So I said to her, let me talk to you about Canada a little bit and the experience of what it is to go to a country where you know no one and no one knows you, but you are incredibly welcome and well-received, despite of your background and your own walk of life. And so we made the decision to come to Canada together. 00:04:27:12 - 00:04:50:06 Nuno I've been here now for ten years, and there's something about Canada kind of stays with you and has stayed with me since I was 16. And most importantly, quite frankly it molded me in many, many ways. So I always say that I was Brazilian-born and Canadian-made is because in many ways, the parts got assembled in Canada and made me a better human and I would say a better marketer, hopefully from all my experiences in Canada. 00:04:50:08 - 00:05:09:00 Alison That's an incredibly brave move as an adult. At 16, it's one of those pivotal times where we're all sort of figuring ourselves out. So for you to pick up and leave everything you knew and transplant yourself deliberately in small town Canada was very brave and certainly speaks to, I suspect, part of what has made you such a successful marketer as well. 00:05:09:01 - 00:05:23:03 Alison And then when you moved with your family to Toronto, I grew up in small town Ontario, so I like to think that we're the most welcoming part of Canada, Toronto isn't always as welcoming, but I'd love to hear what your experience and your family's experience was coming to Toronto. 00:05:23:05 - 00:05:45:10 Nuno That's an incredible observation. Yes, I think moving to a small town, Bracebridge, at 16, was a lot easier in many ways than it was moving to Canada with an entire family and different pressures too, because when I came, my wife didn't speak the language. She was leaving behind a pretty successful career in advertising in Brazil. There were a lot more baggages and pressures that came with the move itself. 00:05:45:12 - 00:06:09:00 Nuno What made it unique to being Toronto versus that small town Canada, to your point, was while it was, everything was very foreign to my wife and family at the same time, everything was very accessible. So having access to different cultures and most importantly, actually a little piece of Brazil already existed in Canada. There's a part of Toronto where it's a lot of Portuguese bakeries, Portuguese grocery shops, Brazilian grocery shops, Brazilian bakeries and restaurants. 00:06:09:02 - 00:06:30:18 Nuno So that helped her get acclimated to Canada a lot easier than not. But certainly, to your point, took a lot longer to get accustomed to the life in Canada at a big city where you don't have that neighbour just down the street, you can knock on the door of. It made it a little harder for us. But still, what I can say remain the same was the open-mindedness that Canadians have. 00:06:30:20 - 00:06:49:00 Nuno And I think that's because of the very diverse cultural background that we all have in Canada remain the same. People were still very welcoming to the fact that she was learning the language, my kids were learning the language. We're all acclimated to the culture. The open-mindedness was still the same. The access to people was a bit more far removed because it was a bigger city. 00:06:49:02 - 00:06:57:03 Nuno But people's innate open-mindedness and kindness were still pretty much the same as it were many, many years ago when I was in small town Bracebridge. 00:06:57:05 - 00:07:17:12 Alison So as Canadians, we'd like to pride ourselves on being open-minded, welcoming and being a cultural mosaic. So for me, as a longstanding Canadian, it's really rewarding to hear that you, as someone newer to our country, found that both in your teen years, but also bringing your your family back to Canada ten years ago, so... happy 10th anniversary, by the way. 00:07:17:16 - 00:07:19:23 Nuno Thank you. Thank you. I'm very proud to be here. 00:07:20:01 - 00:07:30:01 Alison When we first met, you had mentioned that you were born into the creative agency world with family that worked in the business in Brazil. How do you think that foundation really influenced your career path? 00:07:30:03 - 00:07:55:10 Nuno Well great question. Yeah, creativity and creative in general ran deep int

On this episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, speaks with Canadians Zoë Boudreau, Associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, Senior Motion Designer, both from Rethink, about winning Canada's first Young Lions Design Competition gold at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. They reveal how a challenging 24-hour brief on Indian comic book history—completely outside their expertise—pushed them to implement integrated speech bubbles and motion systems that no other team explored. Hear how their complementary skills, iterative approach, and ability to maintain humour under extreme pressure turned unfamiliar constraints into gold-winning creativity. See their Young Lion gold-winning work here. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:01 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:03 - 00:00:48:05 Alison Welcome back to CMA Connect. Today we're bringing you a truly special conversation straight from the heart of the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. Every year, the Young Lions competition challenges the brightest emerging talent from around the world, really pushing them to innovate under incredible pressure. This year, on the last day of what was already a very inspiring week, Canada truly shone on that global stage. 00:00:48:07 - 00:01:09:03 Alison So I am thrilled to be joined today by the talented young Canadian creative team, Zoe Boudreau, an associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, a senior motion designer who not only competed but brought home the coveted Gold Lion for design. So I don't normally do a standing ovation in the beginning of a podcast, but guys, you totally deserve a standing ovation. 00:01:09:03 - 00:01:12:07 Alison So super well done. 00:01:12:09 - 00:01:13:11 Jesse Thank you so much. 00:01:13:13 - 00:01:14:07 Zoe Thank you. 00:01:14:12 - 00:01:35:11 Alison Now this incredible achievement really is a testament to your vision, certainly a testament to your hard work. It also highlights the important role of The Globe and Mail, a Canadian Marketing Association member, who champion and lead the Canadian Young Lions competition here in Canada and are really playing an important role for helping foster the next generation of creative leaders right here at home. 00:01:35:17 - 00:01:46:08 Alison So to all our listeners, get ready to be inspired as we hear directly from Canada's winning team about their journey to gold. Zoe and Jesse. Huge welcome to the CMA Connect podcast.  Zoe Thank you. 00:01:46:12 - 00:01:47:17 Jesse Thank you so much. 00:01:47:19 - 00:01:56:15 Alison The first question I'm going to ask is, who was the first person you reached out to back home once you found out you'd want? Zoe, do you want to go first? 00:01:56:17 - 00:02:10:19 Zoe Ooh. Honestly, I think it was probably my boyfriend. I think was the first one, but he was dead asleep, so he did not find out until the morning. But that was definitely the first person I texted. that night. 00:02:10:19 - 00:02:15:11 Alison That nine hour time zone wouldn't have worked to your advantage on that one, coming from Kelowna. And Jesse, what about you? 00:02:15:16 - 00:02:41:05 Jesse Yeah. It was. I mean, I'd like to say it was my wife, but, no, it was my mom because she texted me, like, five minutes after we won. Like, trying to act really  casual like she hadn't been awake all night. Saying, like, oh, have you heard anything? So I FaceTimed or just with the, with the award, and it was fun watching her, like, recognize in real time what she was reading, because I think it was exactly, it was like one in the morning or something. 00:02:41:05 - 00:02:45:21 Alison So I think your wife is can understand that.  00:02:45:23 - 00:02:52:18 Jesse Yeah, she, she, she woke up to the message and she seemed pretty excited when, when she found out. But yeah. 00:02:52:20 - 00:03:17:13 Alison That is very cool. Well, needless to say, taking home a Gold Lion in design at Cannes is a monumental achievement, especially in the Young Lions competition, which has a very intense 24-hour brief. So huge congratulations, and I'd love you to walk me through the initial moments when you first saw the brief through to coming up with the award winning idea and executing it under such an incredibly tight time constraints. 00:03:17:14 - 00:03:19:11 Alison So who wants to kick it off? 00:03:19:12 - 00:03:40:08 Zoe Yeah, I can kick off like the brief aspect. We were in the this area. We were like eating, because we knew that was something we needed to do before getting into the competition. And we got briefed at 4:00, but we got the briefs sent to us, I think it was at 3:30. Yeah. And we forgot about that, that it was going to be sent to us. 00:03:40:08 - 00:04:07:14 Zoe So as we were eating, it got sent through our email and we're like, the brief! We should probably read this. And we really were like, honestly, I was kind of like surprised or like, really like, scared of the brief. The brief was really tricky. And I think that Jesse and I were just talking about it, and my face was like, oh no, this is like a really hard brief. 00:04:07:14 - 00:04:29:00 Zoe But we got some really good advice from one of our other Canadian Young Lions saying that if it's a hard breathe, it's actually a huge opportunity because everyone's going to see it as a hard brief. So you can just like go hard. If that's the case. So that was pretty intense at the the up front because we were like, oh, this is actually going to be like an all-nighter. 00:04:29:01 - 00:04:49:01 Jesse Yeah I think yeah. So I think it's called the solarium, like the cafe, and you know, really the memory is just having, you know, the, the hot sun just beating down on us and really thinking like, okay, this is, yeah. This isn't going to be fun. This is, this is not going to be a cakewalk. 00:04:49:03 - 00:05:11:20 Jesse And I think kind of recognizing like in that moment. Yeah. That, you know, we got in here representing Canada and that it wasn't going to get to trust that we were here on our own merit. But, you know, you see something like a brief as maybe outside of our boundaries as it was. And yeah, kind of recognizing that we're going to need to dig deep. 00:05:11:22 - 00:05:31:22 Jesse You know, it's it's fun talking about it now, but I was definitely texting a few people, right when we got it. You can definitely see that the decline in like, sanity and just the stress really flow out. So I just want to, I just want to say I appreciate it. Everyone that had to listen to me freak out online. 00:05:32:00 - 00:05:44:02 Alison Well, and the, being in the solarium, something like 32 degree heat, sunshine takes the whole concept of pressure cooker to a whole other level. Now what was it about the brief that made it so tricky and challenging? 00:05:44:04 - 00:06:21:20 Zoe I'd have to say that, well, the brief was making an exhibition in India on Indian comic books. But not just that. It's like the history of storytelling or visual storytelling that leads to comic books. So there were so many layers as part of the brief. And on top of that, we had to name it. And I think the naming part was the thing that we were really freaked out about because we're not copywriters by trade, but now we like to pretend that we are because we we, 00:06:21:22 - 00:06:26:14 Zoe I think we came up with a pretty sick name. Yeah. Go ahead. Jesse. 00:06:26:16 - 00:06:27:00 Jesse Oh, no, no. 00:06:27:03 - 00:06:54:11 Jesse No, I mean, it's it's exactly that I think in the Canadian for the Canadian portion of the Young Lions competition, the brief was around a biking event. That was something like a lot of, you know, experience with attending bike events. It was a space that I was really comfortable and interested in. So we kind of felt, you know, leading into that, that maybe we got lucky or that, you know, the things just sort of aligned for us to really hit the ground running there. 00:06:54:13 - 00:07:23:06 Jesse And that just wasn't the case. You know, unfortunately, just recognizing our own paths that just didn't have a ton of cultural touch points to the history of sequential storytelling in India, so that this wasn't going to be something that we just luck into. It was going to be a lot of work. But definitely, you know, on the other side of that, realizing that it was, you know, a super cool and just feel super fortunate for having that opportunity to learn about the space because that was something that we had no idea about going into it. 00:07:23:06 - 00:07:31:16 Jesse And on the other side now, it's something that I think during the presentation portion, we were like genuinely enthusiastic about championing it because it's incredible. 00:07:31:22 - 00:07:46:18 Alison Well, that's such a great testament to the profession, because there are times, I've been agency side, I've been brand side, and there are times where you get a client, or you get a brief. It's like, oh, perfect. I have a passion for this. I have an interest for this. But most of the time it's like, okay, that's fascinating. 00:07:46:18 - 00:08:04:07 Alison I don't know much about the market. I don't know much about the brand. I don't know much about the consumer and how you have to dig in and learn, and the fact that you dug in and learned in a very, very compressed time period and emerge with gold, that has to be even more gratifying. So huge, huge congratulations. 00:08:04:13 - 00:08:05:10 Jesse Appreciate that. 00:08:05:12 - 00:08:18:17 Alison So you've shared a bit about the significant creative hurdle that you were encountering with the brief. I'd love to hear, how did you leverage each other's strengths or challenge each

Broadcasting live from Cannes Lions 2025, CMA CEO Alison Simpson discusses Bob Park's (Chief Brand Officer for GE, Cafe, Monogram and Haier Appliances in Canada) bold decision to increase sponsorship of Canada Soccer amid multiple scandals. The condition? Complete equality for the women's soccer program. This purpose-driven stance delivered social change (equal pay for women's soccer) and business results (75% website traffic increase), taking GE's "good things for life" mantra further as "good things for everyone." 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:10:18 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:10:20 - 00:00:13:19 Video We are announcing that we are building a women's professional soccer league in Canada. GE Appliances to supporting women's soccer, it's phenomenal. It changes women's and girls' lives. 00:00:31:15 - 00:01:01:10 Bob  Um, It still chokes me up. That thing, where we were faced with a real dilemma at GE. A number of the corporate partners of Canada Soccer, our governing, national soccer organization, had pulled out of sponsorship because of these, scandals and issues that were affecting the organization. But, and I had about a week to think about it. 00:01:01:12 - 00:01:25:02 Bob And obviously, from a corporate standpoint, it would make the most sense to just simply, pull our funding. We always have clauses in our contract, that say, if this happens, you can pull out. But I thought about it and I thought, about, back to our purpose. And our purpose is really, as GE Appliances, we want to support the community. 00:01:25:02 - 00:01:49:13 Bob We, our motto is "good things for life", and that means good things for everyone. How can we support Canada Soccer, which, soccer in Canada, the beautiful game in Canada and then pull out of backing financially the number one organization in the country. No matter how small it is, no matter what it is that you're doing, bring the change that you want to see in the world. 00:01:49:15 - 00:01:56:10 Bob And after that, great things happen. Thank you very much. You. 00:01:56:12 - 00:02:26:23 Alison In today's episode, we're diving into a story that is literally minutes ago, fresh on the stage from the prestigious Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity. We're exploring how innovative brand partnerships are reshaping the landscape for brands and sport marketing in Canada, and also really driving social change and important differences in our community and in equity in this case. So I'm thrilled to be joined by Bob Park, Chief Brand Officer for GE, Cafe, Monogram and Haier Appliances in Canada. 00:02:27:01 - 00:02:49:00 Alison Bob is in Cannes, where he presented as part of the Changemakers series, which has been a very inspiring session where marketers around the world that are renowned for driving important societal change and building brands and businesses have been invited to speak. And Bob, you did a phenomenal job. So thank you for representing Canada so well.  Bob Thank you.  Alison And now we're going to dive into some questions. 00:02:49:00 - 00:03:10:13 Alison And he's going to share, what he shared in Cannes and answer some of our questions around it. So Bob, it's an absolute a pleasure to have you with me today. Why don't you start, by talking a bit about GE Appliances Canada entered into a multi-year partnership with Canada Soccer in 2022. Now you were surprised by a big, unexpected press issue. 00:03:10:13 - 00:03:35:14 Alison And anytime you enter into a sponsorship, there's always potential that things will go awry. Yet when things went awry, you stayed through it and absolutely continue to have a partnership and evolved your approach. So it's a very inspiring story. The audience at Cannes were riveted, so I'd love you to share with our CMA Connect audience a bit about the sponsorship, what happened and why you continue to support Canada Soccer. 00:03:35:15 - 00:04:02:11 Bob I think the first thing I have to do is, go back to, our thinking process or our thought process around, sponsoring soccer in the beginning. And really what it came down to is soccer is the most participated sport in the country. And the reason for that is the barriers to entry for sports like hockey, as an example, are, are it's very expensive to send, if you have any children in hockey. 00:04:02:13 - 00:04:29:03 Bob It's an extreme, expense. Soccer is the one sport that, despite whatever your family's economic condition is, almost any family can afford to participate in. And a large percentage of of the kids and families participating in soccer are GE consumers either now or down the road. So that made a lot of sense. The other thing that we really liked about soccer is it's a very diverse sport.  00:04:29:03 - 00:04:50:11 Bob Worldwide, it is also the most participated sport in the world, and it's phenomenal how accepted it is. No matter what country you go, we're in France now, and, and it's called football here. And I was just talking to a couple of people getting off the stage of how much they loved the game. So Canada, believe it or not, the fastest growing sport is soccer. 00:04:50:11 - 00:05:11:01 Bob More people are playing soccer than ever before. Our major league teams are getting much more attention, and our national team. So it was a kind of a no-brainer knowing that World Cup is coming next year in 2026. You know, we had decided in 2019, how do we, how do we leverage that? How do we how do we approach our consumer? 00:05:11:01 - 00:05:45:09 Bob And it was to get involved with major league teams in Canada, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and finally, really the crown jewel was Canada Soccer because we wanted to support our national teams, both, men and women. And of course, all the all the, grassroots programs across the country. Unfortunately, what had happened was, a number of different scandals, of which, a lot of the sponsors for Canada Soccer, in fact, had pulled out and and found it to be, untenable to maintain a relationship. 00:05:45:09 - 00:06:15:20 Bob And that was, you know, due to a few different, things that had happened. But probably the most prominent was, the women's soccer team going on strike, because of really unfair agreements or conditions as compared to the men's team. So an example of that was, they were having the 2023 Women's World Cup in Australia, and many of the women's players had to pay for their own plane tickets to go to the World Cup. 00:06:15:22 - 00:06:25:09 Bob That's entirely unheard of for virtually any country, much less Canada, where obviously the men's team were fully funded. 00:06:25:11 - 00:06:27:03 Alison And which team was performing significantly better? 00:06:27:05 - 00:06:50:12 Bob Yeah, the the women's team was challenging. They'd won a gold medal. Definitely one of the top teams in the world. So it really didn't make a lot of sense. And, the women rightfully, protested it. They kept playing their games but they donned purple shirts and really made it public. So as a brand that damaged our brand significantly. 00:06:50:18 - 00:07:14:14 Bob And any brand associated with Canada Soccer, because if you don't stand for that, it's going to do damage and you get social media inquiries and all, all types of questions around, why are you sponsoring this? Why is GE a part of, this terrible thing that is happening over at Canada Soccer? So I had about a week and I really thought about it. 00:07:14:14 - 00:07:51:06 Bob And I had the opportunity because it is a clause in most, sponsorship contracts to actually withdraw. And big names had already withdrawn their support of Canada Soccer, which is, predominantly financial and significant amounts of support. We are one of the largest sponsors of Canada Soccer. So it was really a crossroads. And the one thing that really ran through my mind was that, if I withdraw support, I'm actually truly withdrawing support from both the men's, women's and grassroots programs. 00:07:51:08 - 00:08:15:20 Bob And essentially what that does is, although I'm doing it in, I guess, protest of how they were treating the women's team, I'm, I'm completely dropping the funding as well. So that actually wasn't a winning situation for anybody. I thought and I thought about it. And finally we came up with the idea to write an open letter. 00:08:15:21 - 00:08:39:06 Bob So we wrote an open letter, and we distributed that  across all, media, online, etc. and it got picked up by a number of different publications - sports, Globe and Mail, TSN, etc. and what the letter had said was the letter was, was from me. And what it said was, I'm actually going to, give more money to Canada Soccer, which was kind of odd. 00:08:39:06 - 00:09:04:02 Bob I was going in the reverse direction. However, it came with a caveat, and the caveat was that that money was to go to specific programs that we agreed to and outlined, for example, trainers for the women's team, flights being paid for, etc., etc. It was all earmarked for the women's soccer program. That got me some calls. 00:09:04:02 - 00:09:29:12 Bob It actually got me some calls from the CEO and Headquarters and they were wondering, what I was doing and, I explained it to them that, that this is what our brand stands for, and this is the only way to maintain our commitment and our purpose, but still show that GE does not accept inequity. 00:09:29:14 - 00:09:50:17 Bob Our brand is not meant that way. And this is not acceptable to us, but we don't want to pull support of our hugely successful men's and women's programs. So a little bit of touchy, touchiness there, bit touch and go. But then finally, it actually paid off. Fast forward, months later, the women received an equal program. 00:09:50:17 - 00:10:24:09 Bob They received equal pay. They are now on equal terms with, with the men's team. And and you could see now, it spiraled into Women's League, just, Women's Northern Super League just started in Canada. The game is changing just

Broadcasting live from the 2025 Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, CMA CEO Alison Simpson speaks with Susan Irving (CMO, Kruger Products) and Bryan Kane (CEO, FCB Canada) to discuss FCB Canada's Gold Lion win with SickKids Foundation and why Susan and Bryan keep returning to the festival. From Susan's three C's of Cannes and Bryan identifying areas to lean into, discover the insights shaping the future of marketing, creativity and accountability. 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:10:23 Announcer Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:11:01 - 00:00:32:16 Alison Simpson Welcome to the CMA Connect podcast. I'm Alison Simpson, and I am thrilled to be joined today by Susan Irving, the chief marketing officer for Kruger Products, and Bryan Kane, the CEO for FCB Canada. And Bryan, we'll start with a huge congratulations. You brought home Canada's first of hopefully many Gold Lions for your work with Sick Kids yesterday. How does it feel to be leading the charge? 00:00:32:18 - 00:00:50:22 Bryan Kane Well, it was a thrill for the team and everybody back home. There's an interesting thing with Cannes, where there's just a few of us that are here really representing the entire team, but getting the texts flooding in from clients and the rest of the agency was awesome to be able to share that with everybody. 00:00:51:00 - 00:01:02:18 Alison Simpson And, Susan, I know you've been here in past years. In fact, you judged, I think, two years ago. So how does it feel to be back and have a bit more flexibility in your schedule so you can actually take advantage of the programming? 00:01:02:20 - 00:01:27:17 Susan Irving It's always great to be here. It's my third year. And I think every year you're really just trying to get used to the craziness. I always say, if you've ever been to Vegas, it's Vegas times 100 for the marketer and creative individual. But it is nice this year not to be locked in a room for three days and being able to take advantage, of all the content. 00:01:28:06 - 00:01:42:03 Susan Irving If you've been here before, you know that it's just not the content here at the Palais. But then there's all the duelling beaches. So, it's always a struggle. I always tell people, register for everything, and then on the day, decide where you're going to go. 00:01:42:05 - 00:02:01:12 Alison Simpson So this is my first time back since I was agency side 15 years ago. And how much it has changed the volume of opportunities and calibre of speakers is unbelievable. So Susan, that is really, really good advice. So I'd love to hear from both of you. You've both been here multiple times. What keeps bringing you back? And Bryan, why don't you start? 00:02:01:14 - 00:02:31:15 Bryan Kane Sure. I think, Cannes does an incredible job of really looking at where the industry is going. So it's an opportunity to come together, as you mentioned, with, like, world class speakers. The content's incredible. But it's very forward-looking. So it's really a week where you can take a step back, reflect. And at the end of the day, it's also an opportunity to sharpen your tools where you get to take a step out of the business and really focus on learning and identifying those things that you need to to really lean into. 00:02:31:16 - 00:02:38:02 Bryan Kane So when you come home, you've got a really clear focus on what the keys are that you need to be looking at. 00:02:38:04 - 00:02:59:00 Susan Irving Yeah. Well said Bryan, if for me, you know, as a marketer, you think about the four P's, I think about it as the three C's of Cannes. Being the creative, the content and the connections that you make here. And, as Bryan said, it really is the time to to listen and get different perspectives on different businesses. 00:02:59:03 - 00:03:19:21 Susan Irving Listen to where the industry's going. And sit back and figure out what is then applicable to that, to your business. It just gives you so much hope and optimism and inspiration to see so much creativity across the board. And again, how do you bring it home to inspire your own teams and your own agencies? To get to great work. 00:03:19:23 - 00:03:21:16 Bryan Kane With. 00:03:21:18 - 00:03:39:14 Alison Simpson Very well said. And being live in Cannes means you're going to hear lots of background noise too. So that's just indicative of the level of energy that we're all surrounded by. So we're only on a couple of days into the festival, so it's still early, but I'd love to hear a particular key takeaway that you have or a presentation that really resonated with you. 00:03:39:14 - 00:03:41:10 Alison Simpson Susan, do you want to start? 00:03:41:12 - 00:04:16:18 Susan Irving Cannes was kicked off with some marketer of the year, which was Apple. And, you know, they're just a phenomenal organization. When you look at creativity and, you know, really thinking about hope and optimism and the fact that AI is is a big trend yet again. But really talking about, human emotion. And I can't deliver human connectivity and emotion and the way that Apple is just innovating and stepping forward, that constantly solving, a human problem or driving a human emotion. 00:04:16:20 - 00:04:54:17 Susan Irving The second one, we were at Salesforce speech, yesterday. And again, it was Scott Galloway, who always says it like it is, he's quite blunt and straightforward, but the biggest message I got from him was stop thinking about AI as, as a tool and start thinking about it as a collaborator, because when, human detail, and human thought combined with power of AI, your accuracy will be that much higher when you think about it as a collaborator versus a tool. 00:04:55:00 - 00:05:17:03 Bryan Kane I think from an actual sort of time spent in my first day, there's an opportunity in Cannes, in the basement, where they post all the shortlists in the press for it, so you can really dive into the work. And I just felt my tank getting filled, looking at all this incredible work from around the world and really benchmarking ourselves against the absolute best. 00:05:17:03 - 00:05:37:17 Bryan Kane Not in a category, not in a country, but just world class work. So the time spent in the basement is something that I cherish and try and make sure I squeeze some some time away as a guilty pleasure, just to sort of soak in the work for sure. I think also like in the context of some of the AI conversations, it's a theme of pretty much every talk. 00:05:38:07 - 00:06:12:04 Bryan Kane But what I've noticed, the difference between last year and this year is it's really stripped out. AI is being the idea, and it's really how did I help the idea? And really what is the role of AI? And so seeing the progression just in the 12 months since we were here last, has been really interesting. And I think that that continual evolution of us understanding how to harness the power of AI as opposed to it's a checkbox, that we need to integrate within our creative process so that that was sort of a takeaway, but it wasn't one talk, it just the theme, this sort of emerging. 00:06:12:06 - 00:06:30:12 Susan Irving What just to build on that point was interesting to think about three years ago, the conversations were what is AI and how do I even use it? And even last year it was here's some tools. Here's how you can use it safely. But you're right. This year it's how did you use AI as a tool, to make your creative process better. 00:06:30:12 - 00:06:34:20 Susan Irving So you're right, it was quite interesting. 00:06:34:21 - 00:06:49:16 Alison Simpson So you both are clearly immersing yourself in the festival and all the benefits that it brings with it. So I'd love to hear what unexpected insight or new learning that you think will shift either the future of creativity or marketing. 00:06:49:18 - 00:07:08:05 Bryan Kane I think, one thing that's emerged is the need for optimism in the world. It's come up a couple of different times. It was a theme through the show last night when they were recognizing all the Gold and Grand Prix winners, but as I was sitting with that thought, it was the important role that brands play in our lives. 00:07:08:05 - 00:07:31:01 Bryan Kane And brands have never been more important to give meaning and cultural context in a world that you know is increasingly chaotic. But that brands can be that anchor point for consumers and the need for optimism within brands, and to find ways to bring joy to people's lives, to help them, save time with something Scott Galloway was talking about. 00:07:31:06 - 00:07:41:16 Bryan Kane But the role that brands play and the importance was one where, you know, early in the week, but that was a reflection. And I think I'll sit with that through the rest of the week and build out that thought. 00:07:42:19 - 00:08:14:15 Susan Irving For me, it's also innovation. There seems to be a lot more of a trend, this year on innovation. One of the difference that, the schedule has done, they've now kind of shown you paths, that you can take that I think distills, the schedule a little bit more. But last night at the awards, just even after Bryan Ncbi won gold, they showed, a competition that they have where brands needed to solve, an innovation problem and come up with a solution for the world. 00:08:14:17 - 00:08:25:21 Susan Irving So again, what's exciting is, is leveraging creativity to come up with future innovation to solve world problems. 00:08:25:23 - 00:08:50:04 Alison Simpson And so both great insights and Bryan, building on euros, we had CMA's event case for Canada last week. And Kantar shared that only Canadians only think 13% of brands currently understand what their lives are about and the challenges they face, which is a huge opportunity to bring more positivity and purpose and have brands take a more of a leadership role in helping Canadians get to a better place in their lives. 00:08:50:04 - 00:09:04:07 Alison Simpson So nice to see the parallels. Absolut

How can marketers harness data-driven insights while navigating privacy and emerging technologies? CMA CEO Alison Simpson welcomes Jan Kestle, founder and President of Environics Analytics, to discuss why data strategies must be enterprise-led, moving from "so what?" insights to "now what?" outcomes. Their conversation covers privacy-compliant collaboration platforms that reveal which advertising works, how privacy compliance enables effective marketing, and AI's role in enhancing data interpretation. 00;00;01;23 - 00;00;06;09 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00;00;22;17 - 00;00;49;16 Alison Welcome to CMA Connect, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of marketing with industry leaders and innovators. Today, I am absolutely thrilled to welcome a true pioneer in the realms of data, statistics and marketing, Jan Nestle. Jan is the founder and president of Environics Analytics. With over five decades of experience, Jan has been at the forefront of using data and analytics to solve complex business problems and help shape the marketing landscape in Canada and beyond. 00;00;49;18 - 00;01;17;08 Alison Jan's journey is nothing short of inspirational. From her early days at the Ontario Statistical Centre to founding Environics Analytics in 2003, she is consistently pushed the boundaries of what's possible with data-driven insights. Her contributions to the industry are massive and include developing the Prism Segmentation system and the Envision Business Intelligent platform, tools that have revolutionized how marketers understand and can reach their audiences. 00;01;17;10 - 00;01;42;08 Alison In recognition of her groundbreaking work. Jan was honoured with the Canadian Marketing Association's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2022, truly cementing her status as a trailblazer in our field. In today's episode, we'll explore Jan's really fascinating career path and discuss a range of topics that are reshaping the marketing landscape. From the evolving role of data and predictive analytics, to solving business problems to navigating data privacy complexities, 00;01;42;10 - 00;02;01;23 Alison we plan to delve into the future of data-driven marketing. We're also going to touch on AI, enhanced customer journey mapping, ethical considerations and hyper-personalized marketing, and the importance of data sharing and driving business success. There is no shortage of great topics that Jan can speak to, and it is an absolute pleasure, Jan, to welcome you to CMA Connect today. 00;02;01;26 - 00;02;20;00 Jan Well, thank you very much and thank you for having me. I love working with the CMA. I think the CMA in the past few years has done an incredible job of having conversations that are very important to marketers and to the whole business community in Canada. So it's my pleasure to be with you here today, Alison. 00;02;20;02 - 00;02;40;21 Alison And well, thank you so much. Jan, I don't use the term pioneer lightly. You've been a pioneer in data statistics in the marketing professions. The fact that you've been a leading innovator in all three is also a sign that you didn't really take a traditional path to your career. You also succeeded as a woman at a time that was, very sadly, very rare. 00;02;40;24 - 00;02;52;23 Alison And I really find your story inspiring, both from a professional perspective and also from a personal perspective. I know many of our listeners would as well. So I'd love to start by having you share a little bit about your journey. 00;02;52;25 - 00;03;22;06 Jan Sure. Thank you. Well, sometimes when I think about my long career, which I guess part of what makes me a pioneer is it goes so far back, is I think about three aspects to my career. First of all, as you mentioned, I worked as a government statistician, and then I worked as a sales and product development person and eventually a leader in a company that was well-established and owned by various players in the information business. 00;03;22;08 - 00;03;41;01 Alison And then finally, in the latter part of my career, actually started a business and built that. And for some people, it's kind of like, well, how did you decide to go from a government job to leading and working in the private sector and then running a pretty interesting business in the private sector? Why did you decide to start your own business? 00;03;41;01 - 00;04;03;13 Jan And always gives me pause when I think about it that way, because to me, it's been a continuum of figuring out how data and mathematics can really help simulate realities and help people solve problems, whether it's for business or social services or, you know, how we make Canada run better? I've always been excited about being able to use information to do that. 00;04;03;18 - 00;04;32;24 Jan The truth is, I, I have a degree in applied math, which is kind of like a combination of math and physics, and I graduated in a class of four women out of 140 classmates. And it was difficult, even being, you know, a good student and high in the rankings of my class. It was difficult to to get jobs for women in those scientific, and honestly, in any business in that day and age. 00;04;32;24 - 00;05;04;18 Alison So I was very excited to take on my first job as a survey statistician and editor in the provincial government. And that was when we didn't even have computers, never mind AI. We put data on spreadsheets that was actual pieces of paper. We edited questionnaires with red pencils. We shared our work with our partner across the table to do QA, and then we added up rows and columns in order to create data that went into large statistical outputs. 00;05;04;18 - 00;05;31;18 JAn I always say I got really good training on thinking about what the data are telling you and what's missing and what makes sense by being right down in the trenches. Eventually, in that particular role, I moved on to doing a lot of negotiating for the priorities for Ontario and the federal provincial context. But eventually I was leading that organization, and I, I enjoyed very much the work that I got to do in the policy side. 00;05;31;20 - 00;06;03;28 Jan But my choices for a new challenge were to leave the statistics and the data part of of the work and move into more of a government policy job. But I had the opportunity to go and work for the first company in Canada that took data and demographics and created customized versions of that that businesses could use. Compusearch was the pioneering company in that field, and they'd been around for about 15 years and mainly working for retailers. 00;06;04;00 - 00;06;27;07 Jan But they started to branch out and they recruited someone who really understood packaged goods, and they understood someone who worked in the financial sector. And they came and recruited me as someone who worked with governments and not-for-profits. And I joined, actually only took me like five days to make a decision to leave my pension and all that government work and take this opportunity. 00;06;27;07 - 00;07;02;23 Jan And I went into sales and I'd never been in sales. I'd done a lot of business and relationships, but my first job there was selling the data that they had produced back to the government sector, and that was exciting. And led me to an opportunity to work on the product side, is how do we take data and turn it into information, because many organizations can't really invest in building data and doing the work from the ground up. You actually have to turn data into a product or a service that can be actionable, that can make a difference to a community or to a business. 00;07;02;23 - 00;07;26;00 Jan So I went from being the statistician to being the sales person and understanding my customer's needs, and then going into product, and then eventually to president of that organization during its largest period of growth, which was the time period when people got computers on their desks, desktop computers, we went into desktop mapping. It was just the very beginning. 00;07;26;02 - 00;07;52;06 Jan It wasn't even the CRM era. It was what we call database marketing. When we were starting to mine data and combine the kind of data that brands had about their customers, quite limited, with the data that we had about postal codes. So I always think, you know, all these parts of this journey really enabled me to think about how to make data help people make good decisions. 00;07;52;08 - 00;08;21;26 Jan And eventually Compusearch was sold a few times and, and, you know, kind of went the route of what often happens with little businesses when they become successful. They they kind of became a part of selling software. And you know, a more bundled solution. And a few of us had a lot of feedback from our former customers to say, we really want people who focus on the data and the customized solutions or implementing the standard solutions in a customized way. 00;08;21;26 - 00;08;52;21 Jan And so, you know, the story is pretty well known. I decided to start a new business basically replicating building the data, but also helping people understand how to use the data. And that's what we started Environics Analytics. Our funding came from the traditional market research company, Environics Research, that had built a niche for itself, not only measuring political polling and consumer research, but measuring people's values and psychographics. 00;08;52;21 - 00;09;25;26 Jan And so they had this idea of bringing those two worlds together. And so Environics and ourselves are a little team of former geo demographers started Environics Analytics. Twenty years, 300 people, you know, a thousand customers and lots of databases and lots of data development. I still feel like we're continui

How are tariff disputes and economic uncertainty reshaping Canadian consumer behaviour? In this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes Scott Megginson, President of Kantar Canada and Sean Martin, General Manager at Numerator. Their conversation explores the nuances of the "Buy Canadian" sentiment, its impact on domestic and international brands, and provides strategic advice for marketers navigating this complex landscape. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:19 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:21 - 00:00:46:03 Alison In today's episode, we're tackling a topic that's been dominating headlines and boardroom discussions alike. The shifting landscape of Canadian consumer behaviour in the wake of recent tariff disputes, and the global political and economic uncertainty. Joining me today are two of Canada's top insights and analytics leaders. Scott Megginson, president of Kantar Canada, is a veteran with over 30 years of market research. 00:00:46:05 - 00:01:14:17 Alison He's held significant roles at Angus Reid Group, Warner Lambert Canada, PepsiCo Canada and has led Kantar Canada for the past 15 years. Scott, also a regular industry speaker, the past Chair of Queen's University Dean's Council of Arts and Science and the founding president of the Canadian Advisory Council for the Insights Association. Joining Scott and me today is Sean Martin, general manager at Numerator, and a trusted advisor to many of the largest companies across North America. 00:01:14:19 - 00:01:35:09 Alison Sean also started his career working for leading brands and held senior roles at Mars, GSK and Procter Gamble before taking the lead role at Numerator, where he's led the Canadian business for five years. Scott can be sharing key insights from what Kantar is seeing about Canadians perspective and planned behaviours, and how they're changing as a result of the chaos that's emerging from south of the border. 00:01:35:11 - 00:02:01:23 Alison He's also covering important considerations for brands. Sean will complement this by highlighting the actual ways that Canadians' behaviours have changed when it comes to their purchase decisions and actions. Together, the three of us are diving into how Canadian consumers are responding to the call to buy Canadian, as well as the risks and opportunities for both domestic and international brands, and the very delicate balance between patriotic messaging and authentic brand positioning. 00:02:02:01 - 00:02:16:01 Alison From the pitfalls of maple washing to the surprising resilience of shopping habits, our guests will share their latest research and offer valuable advice for marketers navigating through these turbulent waters. Welcome Scott and Sean, it is an absolute pleasure to have you here today. 00:02:16:02 - 00:02:17:02 Scott Thank you Alison. 00:02:17:04 - 00:02:19:09 Sean Thank you Alison. Wonderful to be here. 00:02:19:11 - 00:02:28:17 Alison Now, I'd love to have you both answer my first question. Can you each share what your organizations are doing to track Canadian consumer behaviour? And, Scott, why don't you kick things off? 00:02:28:22 - 00:02:29:15 Sean We've been looking 00:02:29:15 - 00:02:59:14 Scott at different ways to to really understand what Canadian consumers are feeling, because there's just there's so much out there and there's so much in chat and social and everywhere else. And that's one of the first things that we started looking at, was, using our, we call it DX analytics, but really, analyzing search and social signals to get a good understanding of how Canadian consumers are seeing brands. 00:02:59:15 - 00:03:28:15 Scott I mean, do they see them as Canadian or not Canadian? With all the confusion of being in Canada and product of Canada and such, but also the sentiment, and that's been giving us some useful insights, both for Canadian brands and for multinationals. Secondly, there's a lot of polling and a lot of attitudinal data floating around out there, but we wanted to go a little bit deeper, and we've been engaging our Canada Monitor team to really look at the trends and how the values have shifted underneath that. 00:03:28:17 - 00:03:46:21 Scott And we've just launched a global study. We call it Barometer. And we did this during Covid as well. But it's a global study that we're going to have results for pretty soon and we'll be sharing them out with people and how consumers in different markets are really seeing tariffs and and what their responses are and with some of their shopping habits. 00:03:46:23 - 00:04:10:19 Scott And the third piece I think is important. It's been going back what we've learned. I mean, we've been through different crises before. I mentioned Covid. We've gone through different financial crises in the past as well. And we have a lot of learnings for brands and for advertising that we've gone back to look at and pull the dust off a bit, but also try to see which are relevant to bring back to the market for consideration. 00:04:10:20 - 00:04:13:23 Scott So those are your three areas for us basically. 00:04:14:01 - 00:04:27:01 Alison That's great. Scott. It will be fascinating to see how the global study around how countries around the world are reacting to tariffs. That will be very valuable insights for our listeners and certainly for Canadian brands and businesses. And Sean, what about you? 00:04:27:02 - 00:04:56:07 Sean Yeah. Thanks, Alison. For for those that you don't know Numerator we are the largest single source data lake in Canada. And so in a nutshell we collect 12 million receipts from 165,000 Canadians, including Amazon purchases, Walmart purchases as well as hundreds of demographics. And we put it all into our data lake. And with that, we seek to understand what people are actually doing with their purchases and how their opinions are changing, how their sentiment changes, and how it's impacting purchases. 00:04:56:09 - 00:05:29:15 Sean As it specifically relates to this, this Buy Canadian and tariff phenomenon, we've gone ahead and segmented our panel based on shoppers; claimed sentiment around their intentionality. Therefore, we now have segments for people that claim to buy Canadian, who want to avoid U.S. retailers or avoid U.S. brands. And so we're working with our clients to not only understand how their consumers are thinking about it, where they sit in this range, but also tracking their actual purchases and seeing if the sentiments they claim are results in real actions at the store. 00:05:29:17 - 00:05:54:10 Alison And that's a really powerful part of the conversation we can have today. It's one thing to understand how Canadians across the country are feeling and planning to behave, but to actually be able to back that up with actual change in behaviour will make for a very fascinating conversation. So thank you both for being here today. Now, Scott, what is your research showing when it comes to Canadian sentiment towards Canadian brands versus American brands versus international brands? 00:05:54:12 - 00:06:20:22 Scott This is an interesting one, Alison. And we're just starting to get into it. I'll share an example from coffee. What's more Canadian than coffee, right? But we're now digging into, ten different categories and different brands across this. And the first learning was that it's not that black and white, and it's not a clear correlation between how consumers see brands. 00:06:20:22 - 00:06:38:20 Scott So let's call it provenance or how Canadian a brand is, or created a Canadian index, you know, from 0 to 100 of how Canadian your brand is seen. And then we looked at sentiment as well. So positive or negative. So what's associated with that? And we're getting this from search and social like I mentioned before. And it was really interesting. 00:06:38:21 - 00:06:58:12 Scott Let's take a case of a few different brands here. And you have a brand like Second Cup. And if you look at it, Second Cup has become even more Canadian in association recently. I think a lot of that had to do with This Hour Has 22 Minutes. They have that viral thing and that's one of the brands that they called out. 00:06:58:14 - 00:07:24:08 Scott And, but we saw that their sentiment hadn't changed versus a year ago. Now meanwhile, it has, because back in the end of last year, their sentiment took a nosedive due to some, let's just say, political statements of one of their franchisee's owners. And it was, it made the news and it took a dive. But what's happened to Second Cup is they have, shot right back up to where they were. 00:07:24:08 - 00:07:50:10 Scott So they've recovered their sentiment and been seen as more Canadian. Then you have the big brands like Tim Hortons, which is, with all the scrutiny, is being seen as a little less Canadian as people look into ownership. But their sentiment hasn't changed that much. People love their Timmie's. And there's almost the same from McDonald's. I mean, McDonald's was never considered a Canadian brand, but their sentiment hasn't changed much, meaning, 00:07:50:11 - 00:08:21:09 Scott or you could interpret, that it's not just about being Canadian. And that's what we're seeing with the maple washing. It's a lot more than that for a brand. The last example of that is Starbucks. And Starbucks, clearly not a Canadian brand. I mean, what could be more Seattle, than Starbucks? But their sentiment has really, really improved. So this tells us that there's, just using a microcosm here of coffee, that there's room for all brands to improve their relationships with consumers, whether they're Canadian or not. 00:08:21:09 - 00:08:26:12 Scott And it's about getting the messaging right and the servicing right and delivering great

How are successful Canadian brands adapting to today's rapidly changing market? In this episode of CMA Connect, CMA CEO Alison Simpson sits down with Steven Allmen, Executive Vice President of Strategy and Partnerships at CAA National. They explore strategies for staying relevant and growing in Canada, from successful pivots to cautionary tales like Hudson's Bay. Discover the evolving role of trust in brand loyalty, what it truly means to be a Canadian brand today, and how companies respond to shifting consumer behaviours in the face of economic pressures. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:21:19 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:21:21 - 00:00:44:22 Alison In today's episode, we are exploring how one of Canada's oldest brands has evolved to stay relevant and grow for over 100 years. Clearly, that's not an easy feat, especially when you think about how much the world and Canadians have changed over that period. I am absolutely delighted to welcome Steve Allmen, the Executive Vice-President of strategy and partnerships with Canadian Automobile Association, who is joining me today. 00:00:45:00 - 00:01:15:02 Alison Before joining the CAA National, Steve held senior leadership roles in loyalty, retail, telecom and financial services, working for great businesses like Amia, Aeroplan and HBC, to name a few. With expertise in strategic alliances, program design and business development, Steve focuses on driving value through partnerships, data driven insights and loyalty marketing. His diverse background really reflects a passion for delivering growth and transformative results, and this work in the CAA is the latest example. 00:01:15:06 - 00:01:36:01 Alison Today, Steve and I are going to dig into what it takes to stay relevant and grow as a business and brand in Canada. Whether your brand has been around for decades or is in more nascent stages, there is absolutely lots of valuable learning that you can benefit from in our conversation. We'll also cover when you should pivot and futureproof your business by changing what's working well for your company in the past, and that's never an easy decision. 00:01:36:03 - 00:01:52:05 Alison We'll talk about the crucial role trust plays and what it means to be a Canadian brand, amidst the current political and economic upheaval. The CAA also has a unique lens into how Canadians are changing their behaviours across the country, which is valuable for all the marketers who have tuned in today. Welcome, Steve. 00:01:52:07 - 00:01:54:03 Steve Thanks, Alison. Great to be here. 00:01:54:05 - 00:02:10:04 Alison So, Steve, let's start with what's going on today and the recent resurgence of Canadian patriotism. I'd love you to share how CAA has seen Canadians adopting their behaviours in the face of tariffs and the increased loyalty to our country. And also, are you seeing any regional differences? 00:02:10:06 - 00:02:30:05 Steve Yeah. Thanks, Alison. It's a, it's a great topic. It's sort of an unfortunate topic that we have to cover today. But the reality is we're all living it. So one of the things that we've seen at CAA, I think as much as anybody else is we're very happy that we've got Canadian in our name, because it makes it very easy for people to understand who we are. 00:02:30:07 - 00:02:57:23 Steve We're we're a diverse group of clubs across Canada. We represent about 7.4 million Canadian members. We call them members, not as much consumers, but members of our program. We're very proud of the fact that we are coast to coast with offices from BC to Atlantic Canada. What we're seeing as much as anything else, is a lot of clarity around travel, a lot of clarity around, you know, the importance of being Canadian and a lot of pride. 00:02:58:01 - 00:03:26:12 Steve I can't quote all the numbers for you right now because we're still learning them as we go along. We are certainly seeing a dip in U.S. travel. We're certainly seeing an uptick in European, Caribbean, Mexico travel. So CAA is not just a roadside business. We're also a travel business. And so we have a pretty good sense as to what's going on from what our members are researching, what our travel agents are hearing from their consumers, and how we're promoting the business. 00:03:26:14 - 00:03:51:15 Steve It doesn't mean we're not promoting U.S. partners, but we're very aware of the fact that Canadians have changed their travel behaviour. One of the things I'm going to be most interested to see is because CAA is part of a North America wide alliance with Triple-A, which is very much the same business as CAA, we get a lot of trans-border traffic, so we get Americans coming up to Canada, we get Canadians going down to the United States. 00:03:51:17 - 00:04:12:19 Steve And in essence, if you break down as a CAA member in the middle of Tennessee and you phone CAA, a nice Triple A truck will show up. If you break down in the middle of Ontario and you're a Triple-A member, the same happens. So with summer travel coming up, it's going to be really interesting to see what impact that has on our business. 00:04:13:02 - 00:04:42:01 Steve Wha,t what impact that has on our call rates and what impact that has just on our forecasting for the future. We don't know yet. We're still learning. The only other thing I'd say is we've got some great partners, many of whom are Canadian businesses. And so we're very much promoting them. Again, we're not doing anything to stop people from coming to our partners, but we're very proud of some of our Canadian partners and promoting them as we go through the motions of whatever is next going to come out of the United States and the government. 00:04:42:03 - 00:04:52:16 Alison Now you highlighted some of the non-U.S. destinations that Canadians are now choosing Caribbean and others. Are we seeing them also booking more vacations in Canada? 00:04:52:18 - 00:05:16:14 Steve Yeah, it's a great it's a great question. I think we're going to start to see a lot more road tripping, where we're hearing a lot more about it. We still do a lot of regional partners, very much regional partners that have the flavour of B.C. or the flavour of Atlantic Canada. Again, I don't have final numbers yet. It might be an interesting thing to revisit it in a year, and then we can measure against it. 00:05:16:15 - 00:05:38:10 Steve But we certainly are having members asking about, what can I do in Niagara Falls? What can I do in beautiful Victoria? Where can I go in P.E.I.? And again, some of those are self-serving events versus using a travel agent. But I think we're going to see a real uptick in consumers either renting a car, we've got RV partners, 00:05:38:10 - 00:05:56:16 Steve We've got hotel partners, we've got dining partners. Regional events, regional fairs and all those other things that are really built for our members. So I'm very confident we're going to see an uptick in those. Just everything you're reading in the press, it makes sense. And our consumers are very representative of the Canadian population. 00:05:56:18 - 00:06:12:16 Alison Now, we're obviously seeing a huge Buy Canadian movement from your perspective with living, working with a brand that's been a part of Canada for 112 years. What does it mean to be a Canadian brand and how has that evolved during the current political and economic upheaval? 00:06:12:18 - 00:06:35:00 Steve Yeah, it's it's a really interesting time for us. You know, CAA is built on a couple of things. We're built on our very traditional roadside business. We're also very much built on advocacy and safety and trust. And I'll give you a couple of examples. You know, we recently did, for example, for those of you who are EV drivers, I'm not, 00:06:35:00 - 00:06:59:18 Steve But for those of you who are EV drivers, your biggest thing that you're worried about is range. So we did a very Canadian thing. We tested cars in the winter. That might seem unusual, but a lot of the EV cars that are out there have their ranges calculated based on California. We're not California. So in February, we actually did a test drive with using 14 EVs from beautiful Ottawa to even more beautiful Mont Tremblant. 00:06:59:20 - 00:07:22:03 Steve We actually drove the cars until they were empty of electrical charge and fuel and wanted to see how long would they take? What was the charging time to reboot them? How did we need to kind of get all those little nuances working so that people are comfortable? And we did it with a lot of Canadian pride. We had people from all over Canada driving these vehicles up into Mont Tremblant. 00:07:22:04 - 00:07:40:01 Steve It was fantastic. So the press that comes out of it is very much about CAA is trustworthy. And here's a Canadian view of EVs. So Canadian pride comes up. And again we are the Canadian Automobile Association, so we're reminded of it every day. 00:07:40:03 - 00:08:01:00 Alison So now let's take a step back. Thriving is a business. For 112 years it was to state the obvious very, very rare. And it absolutely has to provide valuable learning for marketers, and the company at any stage. So can you share how the CAA has evolved? And we'll narrow the timeframe down to the last decade, relevance and driving growth. 00:08:01:02 - 00:08:40:06 Steve Yeah. It's you know, we are 100 and I think we're 110 plus years old. And we started in a time of horse and carriage and bicycles and cars that were a little bit rickety. So we have evolved. I think the biggest thing that we've looked at is really the importance of trust around the data that we gather on our members and how we communicate with our members as we've migrated from very much a direct mail house - all of our clubs were very big on direct mail, either for acquisitio

In this live episode of CMA Connect for CMA Marketing Week 2025, Alison Simpson the CEO of the CMA welcomes Neil Patel, New York Times bestselling author, and the Founder of NP Digital. Their conversation covers various topics from the impact of AI on marketing, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation, to the changing nature of brand control and exposing the myth of controlling narratives. Listen in as Alison and Neil discuss the evolving landscape of the marketing profession in Canada and decide for yourself if brands still matter.  00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:05 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shift that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:07 - 00:00:45:09 Alison So it's an absolute pleasure to welcome everyone in the room today, as well as the hundreds of Canadians that are joining us from across the country to this live version of CMA connect. As we've heard throughout the morning, marketing isn't just changing. It is absolutely being redefined in real time. And it's so important to take time to reflect and digest and make sure that our pivoting makes sense. 00:00:45:11 - 00:01:07:03 Alison It's absolutely, very much a period of test and learn as well. And the most recent panel did a phenomenal job of sharing how that's working for them as well. And they both panels today have really given us a lot to reflect on. So building on that theme, I'm thrilled to be joined by Neil Patel and Years time bestselling author and also the founder of NP digital. 00:01:07:05 - 00:01:32:16 Alison He's going to be joining me on stage momentarily, but while he's coming up, I will share a little bit about Neil. Neil's full service digital marketing agency has helped industry giants like Microsoft and Google, just to name a couple, grow through revolutionary marketing strategies. He also has a marketing school podcast that attracts over 1 million listeners monthly. The United Nations recognized Neil as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under the age of 35. 00:01:32:18 - 00:01:49:15 Alison Oh, and The Wall Street Journal cited him as a top influencer on the web, just around things out. He made Forbes list of the top ten marketers. You know what? I thought my career was going pretty well until I started to learn a little bit more about Neil. So, you know, I've had the pleasure of meeting and doing a CME session with him last year. 00:01:49:15 - 00:01:52:18 Alison So it's great to welcome you back to Canada. 00:01:52:20 - 00:01:56:02 Neil Thank you. Thank you. 00:01:56:04 - 00:02:03:23 Alison So we're going to jump right in. What are the biggest rules you've seen rewritten. And then how are you going to rate us on our ability to adapt to those rules. 00:02:04:01 - 00:02:25:02 Neil Yeah. So when you're thinking about the rules of marketing, people just used to assume marketing wasn't very black and white. I'm not talking about from the creative aspect, but in marketing, in general, people are like, okay, you spend money on clicks and you get traffic to your website, you generate sales, you rank on Google, you get clicks, you generate sales. 00:02:25:02 - 00:02:48:06 Neil And one of the biggest rules has been changed in marketing is platforms now are trying to optimize keeping people on their own platform, their own site, instead of sending people off to your website. Marcus believe that you would have to have people coming to your website to drive revenue and sales. You can now purchase on Instagram or TikTok without ever leaving that platform. 00:02:48:09 - 00:03:13:04 Neil The business generates revenue and Instagram and TikTok, so have the user. They sell them more products, more services. So I would say the biggest rule that I'm seeing being rewritten right now is traditional form of marketing. Of sending them to a business to generate revenue is no longer the case. A business can make money on multiple platforms, and it's no longer about getting people over to your brand, your website. 00:03:13:10 - 00:03:22:14 Neil It's more so capturing their attention on whatever platform they are on and then selling them right then and there on that platform natively. 00:03:22:16 - 00:03:26:17 Alison And how are you writing marketers overall in our ability to adapt to that? 00:03:26:19 - 00:03:53:09 Neil Marketers have been adapting really well. What we typically see is the marketers who work for SMEs tend to adapt first, and then the marketers who work at large corporations typically adapt second, because it just takes time and energy. And when you're a big corporation, you know, that's publicly traded, that it has $100 billion market cap. It takes time to make adjustments versus when you're a five person start. 00:03:53:11 - 00:04:00:23 Alison Now you also work with a lot of big tech organizations. So are they a bit more agile or they're still suffering from the same? 00:04:01:01 - 00:04:04:23 Neil They're still suffering from the same thing that all the other corporations are. 00:04:05:01 - 00:04:16:14 Alison So, Neil, as we look to the future, there are some experts out there that are starting to question will brands continue to be relevant? So in your opinion, will Rand still matter in an age of algorithms and hyper personalization? 00:04:16:16 - 00:04:39:00 Neil AI brands, I think, matter more than ever before. Think of AI overviews. You do a search you may get mentioned in a overviews you don't necessarily always get a click back to your website. You do a search on ChatGPT. You may see a brand or a product or service recommended. You may end up purchasing later on. You may not purchase at all, but it's very rare that you're actually clicking over to the website. 00:04:39:06 - 00:04:57:07 Neil You see a real on Instagram or video. Whatever you want and calling it short form. See a product or service mention you don't go and buy right away. In most cases. That brand recognition, though, is what eventually leads to a sale. In marketing, they call something the rule of seven. Or there's this thing called the Rule of seven. 00:04:57:07 - 00:05:24:03 Neil When someone sees or interacts with your brand seven times, they're much more likely to engage, become a customer, evangelize. And we started looking at price points in both B2C and B2B. Of course, the cheaper the price point, the less interaction someone needed with the brand before they purchase. But when we looked at price points across the whole board for both B2B and B2C, the average number of interactions someone has with the brand when we did a study was around 11. 00:05:24:08 - 00:05:34:22 Neil So branding is more important than ever, because if you're not touching people multiple times and you're not saying top of mind, you're less likely to drive that sale when they're ready to make that decision. 00:05:35:00 - 00:05:56:14 Alison Now, awareness and trust in a brand is obviously yes. We heard the panel talk about the emotional part of a brand. It's there's always going to be product features and benefits. But as humans we react emotionally. And we also heard a lot about authenticity. What else would you add to what makes a brand as important or even more important today? 00:05:56:16 - 00:06:12:05 Neil So if you want your brand to be super important, I would say you got to figure out an angle. You know, trust, authenticity. These are all a lot of things that markers talk about. And it's been there for a very long time. But what are you doing that's different? So I'll give you a great example of this right. 00:06:12:07 - 00:06:37:01 Neil I'm listening in. I'm from the States. I'm not familiar with as many Canadian brands as you guys may be. So one of the panelists before me was from Farm Girl. Never heard of it. I have kids, don't give them cereal in the morning. Why? It's terrible for you in most cases, right? The advantage you guys have here in Canada is you guys typically have cleaner ingredients. 00:06:37:03 - 00:07:01:00 Neil Our box of FrootLoops is much worse, at least from what we see on Instagram Reels when they compare versus what the Canadian version of FrootLoops is. All right, so when I saw Farm Girl, the first thing I did, even if there's a tariff for me, I tried to purchase it on Amazon, I think was like 20 something dollars, USD per package. 00:07:01:00 - 00:07:17:01 Neil I added three to a cart, and then I was like, I'm like, wait, I'm here for extra like few hours. Can I just go to the grocery store and pick some up? Because my suitcase is half empty? I'm literally here for a day, right? Like I should just go to the grocery store and just see if I can shove a ton in. 00:07:17:03 - 00:07:54:05 Neil I don't know what's going to happen at the customs or I'm Global Entry, so hopefully I don't get any beef, but that was a unique angle, solving a problem that people have. When I grew up, I eat cereal and my parents didn't know any better. Immigrants from India, you know, they look at it as like, anything's great. We're not living on the street, you know, give your kid whatever is on sale, affordable cut coupons, etc. at this point in time, we're much more educated as parents then I would say that the previous generations were, and it has nothing to do with intellect. 00:07:54:05 - 00:08:17:21 Neil I think a lot of it has to do with the data and the social platforms pushing out so much information that we're able to consume it and learn more. But going back to it, that brand stood out to me. She's booming. Great growth. I'm happy for her. But as a consumer, her success of her generating tons of revenue and growing fast is why I would buy the product. 00:08:18:02 - 00:08:38:10 Neil I'm buying the product. You know, either it's going to be Amazon or in-store if I can find it, but I'm buying the product for one simple reason a unique value p

Where do you stand on Trump and the tariffs? CMA CEO Alison Simpson welcomes Gregory Jack, SVP of Public Affairs, Strategic Communication & Market Research, and Naumi Haque, SVP of Research – Market Strategy & Understanding, both from Ipsos. Their timely discussion highlights an Ipsos member survey quantifying Canadians' sentiments about today's economic and political climate. Learn how Canadians unite to defend the country's economy and sovereignty and discover how you can stand with your fellow Canadians. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:21 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:23 - 00:00:58:00 Alison We are certainly living in interesting times with tariffs and the 51st state nonsense creating uncertainty, we're seeing Canadians come together to defend our economy and also our sovereignty. In today's episode, we are sharing new research that quantifies how Canadians are reacting to Trump, tariffs and the turmoil that they're both creating. The ongoing study by CMA member Ipsos is tracking Canadians' sentiment and how it's quickly evolving on many key measures, including buying Canadian and how Canadian consumers are balancing their desire to support local brands with concerns about rising costs and affordability. 00:00:58:01 - 00:01:24:21 Alison Joining me today are Naumi Haque, Senior Vice President of Market Strategy and Understanding, and Greg Jack, Senior Vice President of Public Affairs, Strategic Communication Market Research, both from Ipsos. Naumi is an Insights Leader with over two decades of experience in the research and advisory industries across several great companies, including Google. In his current role, Naumi is managing customer research projects for companies in a variety of sectors including retail, cannabis and tech. 00:01:24:23 - 00:01:45:07 Alison He was at the forefront of global research that tracked the impact of Covid 19 on citizens and consumers, and is now leading a tracking study on how Canadians are responding to Trump and tariffs. Greg leads the Ottawa Public Affairs practice for Ipsos. He's also a Boomerang member of their team, having first worked there as a VP in their Calgary office in 2019 to 2023. 00:01:45:08 - 00:02:06:05 Alison Greg's held a variety of roles in the federal government and also worked for Suncor and the Government of Alberta early in his career. He brings extensive experience in both market research and helping brands and governments get their message out. Today, Greg, Naomi and I are digging into the research findings to discuss the impact that the economic and political uncertainty are having on Canadians. 00:02:06:07 - 00:02:27:02 Alison We'll discuss intriguing generational differences and also how Canadian consumers' attitudes towards US-based companies that are operating in Canada are changing. We'll highlight the opportunities and challenges that the rise of Canadian patriotism and the shifting sentiment and marketplace can represent for marketers. Welcome, Greg and Naumi, it's a pleasure to have you both with us today. 00:02:27:04 - 00:02:27:21 Gregory Thank you. 00:02:27:23 - 00:02:29:08 Naumi Thanks for having us. 00:02:29:10 - 00:02:39:15 Alison So Naumi, I'd love you to kick things off. How has the "Buy Canadian" sentiment evolved since the start of the US Canada trade tensions? And what implications does this have for marketers? 00:02:39:17 - 00:03:03:07 Naumi For sure. I mean, it's been, it's been a crazy month. So there's definitely the "Buy Canadian sentiment", is going strong. There's actually, you know, we see two things happening, right? There's patriotic purchasing, so people trying to buy Canadian or avoid American. And there's another shift happening with consumers, which is that we see just general conservatism. People are pulling back a little bit on spending because of all the uncertainty that's happening around the tariffs and the impact on prices. 00:03:03:08 - 00:03:23:13 Naumi So in terms of how it's evolving, we're definitely seeing the sentiment grow. So it's not just Buy Canadian, it's avoid American. And right now we're looking at the two thirds of Canadians that say they're making an effort to buy Canadian. And that's gone up from just over half of Canadians about a month ago. And on the boycotting American side, we're also seeing growth in that number. 00:03:23:14 - 00:03:46:07 Naumi So it's 58% of Canadians, right now are saying they're avoiding American products. And that's up from 47% a month ago. And then there's also, you know, about a third of Canadians that are stopping traveling from the US. So there's just right now a lot of, I think, angst with Canadians in terms of the US. And then there's the other part that I mentioned, the sort of being a little bit more conservative. 00:03:46:09 - 00:04:16:18 Naumi We see Canadians generally pulling back on spending. So about a third of them right now are telling us that in the past, two weeks, they've pulled back on spending or more tightly budgeted their money because of everything that's happening with tariffs and uncertainty. So it's definitely, you know, a strong sentiment amongst Canadians. It's growing. And I think the implication for marketers is there's there's obviously a risk if you're an American company, there's an opportunity if you're a Canadian company and can sort of communicate your Canadian credentials. 00:04:16:20 - 00:04:39:02 Naumi And then there's also this focus on value. But to to capture some of those people that are pulling back on spending. But ultimately, the bottom line I think for marketers is that, you know, like I said, the last month had been crazy. It's been crazy for us as market researchers, but it's been crazy for consumers. And the most important thing to remember is that right now, all of those brand decisions that consumers are making, they're they're sort of up in the air, right. 00:04:39:03 - 00:04:59:20 Naumi Like we we as marketers, we spend a lot of time thinking about, oh, how do we how do we break through? Right. How do we get our message to resonate with Canadians? And, you know, in some categories we see that it's really tough to break through. Right. Like in CPG categories, it can be 60, 70% of people are on autopilot. Well, right now that inertia around brands is broken. 00:05:00:00 - 00:05:07:03 Naumi And so it's an opportunity. And I mean, we're expecting to be very busy as market researchers in the next little bit. Let's put it that way. 00:05:07:05 - 00:05:18:04 Alison It's amazing. And it's moving at such warp speed. It's incredible. I'd love to hear if you're seeing any regional differences, because typically in Canada we would see regional differences. But I don't know that that's applying in the situation. 00:05:18:06 - 00:05:37:09 Naumi I mean, the sentiment is across the country, but we definitely do see regional differences. What's interesting is, you know, even in places where do you think, oh, well, you know, them a little bit holding back like in Quebec. Right. It's even people in Quebec now rallying around Canada and sort of that national pride. So it really is coast to coast. 00:05:37:11 - 00:05:54:06 Gregory You know, I think Naumi really hit the nail on the head in. What we're seeing in Quebec is fascinating because all of a sudden, Québecers are rallying around the Canadian flag, and we are seeing that in some of the voting intentions during the federal election in our polls. And we're also seeing it anecdotally in stories that you see in the media and in our numbers. 00:05:54:08 - 00:06:06:02 Gregory The real difference, as we're going to discuss, I think, is not regional but generational. But Canadians from coast to coast have really signed up to this Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement that we're seeing emerging. 00:06:06:04 - 00:06:18:14 Alison That's a great shout out, Greg, and I'd love you to drill down on that and really help our listeners understand the generational differences that we are seeing based on the current economic situation and how this is also impacting marketing strategies. 00:06:18:16 - 00:06:40:01 Gregory Right. And Naomi and I wrote a while ago paper called "Nuanced Nationalism", and the paper talked about how the nationalist movement or the Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement has significant generational differences. And what we're finding is that it's the Baby Boomers who are leading the charge here. Younger Canadians are more likely to put price over patriotism. Now, that's not to say that younger Canadians aren't behind this. 00:06:40:01 - 00:06:58:15 Gregory They are. And these numbers are, are still showing majorities in most groups. All age groups, in fact, have been saying that they've been changing their behaviour and they've been paying attention. But there are some generational differences. Right now, for example, 66% of Baby Boomers say that we can never again trust the Americans the same way. And that's just 45% of Gen Z. 00:06:58:17 - 00:07:15:00 Gregory We see 80% of Boomers saying that despite the current dispute with the U.S. is going to bring Canadians together, which we've been saying it's been doing, j  ust 63% of Gen Z are saying that. And so these are these are, you know, big differences that do suggest there's there's some nuanced nationalism happening. And we see this in purchasing, too. 00:07:15:01 - 00:07:45:19 Gregory While 7 in 10 Canadians say that we should stand up to Trump with retaliatory tariffs, even if that means Canadians have to pay more, that number goes up to eight in ten among Boomers, and it's just five in ten among Gen Z. So Naumi alluded earlier to how Canadians are pulling back their spending. And really the group that is most affected by this, who may have the most to lose