Can Canadian innovation change the world? In today's episode, Alison Simpson interviews Mark Mandato, Senior Manager of Key Growth Initiatives at CBC, and Chris Sewell, CEO & Founder of Net Zero Media. With advertising emissions approaching 4% of global emissions—rivalling the entire aviation industry—and 74% of Canadians factoring sustainability into their purchasing decisions, this partnership is pioneering breakthrough measurement technology. Discover how CBC and Net Zero Media are giving marketers the precise data they need to track their campaigns' carbon impact and make informed decisions that benefit both their bottom line and the planet.

Presenter  0:01  
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's Marketing Podcast where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson,

Alison  0:25  
The advertising industry accounts for as much as 2% of global carbon emissions from digital alone, with total advertising approaching 4% of all global emissions. That actually rivals the entire aviation industry. But here's what is particularly relevant for us as Canadian marketers. 74% of Canadians consider sustainability important when making purchasing decisions, and two thirds say they're willing to pay above average prices for products that have a lower carbon footprint. Plus 70% of TSX 60 companies have already committed to net zero emissions by 2050. Canadian marketers are sitting at a pivotal moment and navigating both unprecedented consumer expectations as well as evolving compliance requirements. This can create both opportunity and urgency for our profession. While consumer demand accelerates and regulatory frameworks tighten, we're seeing genuine innovation emerge right here at home. Today, we're exploring how Canadian innovation is setting new global benchmarks for environmental responsibility in advertising. CBC is pioneering sustainable media practices that are best in class, not just in Canada but globally. With the breakthrough measurement technologies that are giving marketers the precise, actionable data that they need to track their campaign's carbon impact. Today, I'm joined by Mark Mandato, who is Senior Manager of Growth Initiatives for the CBC. At the CBC, he is leading initiatives to position Canada's national broadcaster as a sustainability leader in Media Solutions. Mark's background spans Rogers Communications and Media Propulsion Laboratory, and he brings a unique commercial perspective to CBC's groundbreaking environmental programs. I'm also joined by Chris Sewell, the Head of Research and Co-founder of Net Zero Media. Chris is the technical architect behind carbon measurement methodologies that are revolutionizing how we understand advertising's environmental impact. Since developing his world leading methodology for quantifying carbon emissions and media activities back in 2007, Chris has worked with leading global brands, proving that sustainability and marketing effectiveness are not mutually exclusive. So welcome Chris and Mark. I am absolutely thrilled to have you both with me today, and I'm looking forward to diving into this conversation that matters more than ever for Canadian marketers.

Mark  2:45  
Thank you. Great to be here. 

Chris  2:47  
Good to be here. 

Alison  3:14  
So Mark,let's start with the fundamental question. Given everything else that's competing for marketers'  attention right now, whether it's AI, tariffs, economic pressures, why should sustainability be a priority for marketing and media professionals? 

Mark  3:02  
Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question to start off with. I think, I think it's gone from being a nice to have in a marketer's, you know, repertoire of things they have to worry about, down to an essential business imperative. Right? So it affects your brand's reputation, it can affect the consumer behaviour and even financial performance. So you had briefly mentioned that as of today, I think there's 301 companies that have signed on for the, you know, the net carbon zero for 2050, and it's appearing in annual reports as something that they are reporting against on a go forward basis. 

Mark  3:32  
So at one point it was like, yes, it was a nice thing to do because it was a right thing to do for the planet, but now it has actual business impact that's related to the marketing department. So that's why sustainability has to come back onto the radar. It's not going away. It's not something that's going to get sort of better on its own. So having the ability to report on a granular level is becoming more and more important for marketers.

Alison  3:54  
That's great to hear. It's obviously mission critical from a planet  perspective, but to see the business impact, to see the customer demand and increase the expectation, and now to have an ability to actually track it, is everything coming together, you know, the way it's meant to. Chris, you've been measuring advertising's carbon impact for over a decade. So for companies that are already tracking campaign metrics, why is carbon measurement important, and why does it matter for their bottom line?

Chris  4:23  
Actually, Alison, it's getting on for two decades, which I suppose shows both my commitment and my stubbornness in this area. Yeah, the importance of carbon measurement is often overlooked by the marketing team as they are busily focused on existing business objectives, which as we know today, are getting m ore and more challenging. The carbon emanating from the marketing budget is being measured and reported today. It's just being managed by other parts of the organization, so there's not necessarily a clear line of sight, and there's two reasons this has been done and how it affects the bottom line. As Mark was saying, 70% of TSX companies are actually have net zero targets, and therefore someone has to be measuring what's occurring today. 

Chris  5:10  
So there's two reasons why this is important. Obviously, to meet those targets, but also how it affects the bottom line. Firstly, these companies who are talking about targets, are legally compelled to understand and report future business prospects. So this is a business, it's got nothing to do with climate at the moment, but, climate change is there as a reality. Therefore they have to take this into account when they're saying what's going to happen in the future. So this requires analysis of the external risks that are going to occur in future years, and the current emissions from the area of the business that's occurring today, which includes the marketing spend. 

Chris  5:50  
So market emissions are being measured and reported using what's called, currently is a spend based method. This is where each dollar spent on marketing, regardless of what channel or the activity, is converted into a carbon equivalent based on the local market factor. So it's a simple thing. I spend $100, we convert it by that factor, that's how much carbon on the site, regardless of what's actually occurring. It's a flat number. Everything is actually counted the same. So while this covers any internal or external legal or voluntary portion requirements that these companies are using, it does nothing to help understand the carbon intensity areas of spend. As I said, every dollar is given the same carbon value, and that's just not true. 

Chris  6:37  
Different channels, different activities, actually have different carbon intensity, and that method will not work in the future. So if it's not understood, it can't be managed. So the only way to reduce emissions is to reduce the budget, which I'm sure no marketer would want to hear that, if we're going to reduce emissions, because we have this target, therefore we will spend less on marketing. So it's not a great position to be in where we currently sit. So while this first reasoned about future risk, it is often the current cost with a direct link to the bottom line. Companies with net zero targets in a number of jurisdictions are neutralizing emissions. This might be an internal policy or maybe legislated requirement. If these marketing emissions are unable to be understood with no pathway to reduction, this cost will only increase with time, as budgets increase, and the cost of compensation or offsets is rising steadily all the time, because more and more companies are looking for, let's call it an easy way out. So marketers are increasing long term liability cost beyond the simple line items of the budget. This will be addressed again by business decisions outside the marketing department, and it's a greater understanding and action is taken. And what CBC is doing is that first major step for an organization to help marketers and the corporate clients understand in detail and they will start reducing into the future. 

Alison  8:07  
Thanks, Chris, that's super helpful. So we have Canadian consumers who absolutely increasingly expect businesses and brands to be paying attention to sustainability and climate change. We have businesses that are stepping up as they should, to also protect climate change and the challenges that's being measured in that sounds like quite a simplistic way that ultimately could reduce marketers budget. So to have a more sophisticated way to measure it is in the best interest of marketers or budgets the business and ultimately, Canadian consumers as well. Mark, I know the CBC has a real commitment to responsible media and sustainability. I'd love you to walk us through your "Greening Our Story" strategy