Bob 'n Joyce Talk HR 'n OD
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© 2025 Bob Stapleton and Joyce Wilson-Sanford
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The Bob 'n Joyce Talk HR 'n OD podcast, hosted by Bob Stapleton and Joyce Wilson-Sanford, is for Human Resources and Organizational Development change-makers committed to bold work in an era that calls for the skills, values and partnership of these two disciplines. Bob and Joyce are former HR and OD C-suite executives who share their successes, failures, and hacks. They believe that it's an exciting time for this work and give specifics around acquisitions, policy nightmares, and grand moments. This podcast is to support your work and to take a moment to step away from the daily chaos. Come on in, grab a snack, and welcome!
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In this episode, Bob’nJoyce talk with Ryan Englin about what businesses can do to fully leverage the power of the people closest to the work. Englin is a gritty, no bull coach who helps business owners get real about what’s needed to build strong teams that drive business success.
Some of Ryan’s thought-provoking insights include:
Being authentic to your brand, even if it’s edgy and doesn't appeal to everyone.
The importance of building a strong connection between the culture you want and the people you hire.
Working from the top-down and bottom-up to make positive change stick.
Teasing out the difference between “training” and “learning” and why both are important.
What sets Englin apart is his passion for helping small business owners do a lot of the small things that make a big difference. Business big and small will benefit from his wisdom.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
If you'd like to meet with Ryan Englin, you can book a complimentary discover call at www.corematters.com
Today, Joris Merks-Benjaminsen joins us from the Netherlands to share his work helping companies cultivate leaders who emphasize both accountability and human connection to achieve extraordinary results. Joris is an award-winning author, brand and marketing expert, successful business leader, and entrepreneur. In 2022, after 22 years in various corporate roles, Joris launched his company, Managing without Power. He also wrote a book by the same title.
Joris personifies the key elements of his work - he is a very nice guy with an edge. He is also a smart, insightful and humble person.
If you would like to talk with Joris about what he can do for your team or organization, you can reach him through his website:
https://www.managingwithoutpower.com (https://www.managingwithoutpower.com)
Let’s get started. Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
Bob’ n Joyce look ahead to 2025 and share what workplace pundits tell us what we can expect this year. Instead of regurgitating a boring list, they synthesize them down to the 4 biggies, and then play their “What-if?” game to stimulate our thinking about actions we can take.
There are some pleasant surprises about what the experts* predict resulting in more productive, healthy and fulfilling workplaces. As the title of this podcast implies, the key is to have courage to take action. The courage comes from knowing that in these fluid times, not everything will work.
Come on in. Grab a healthy snack. Welcome!
• Based on Deloitte’s report in Global Human Capital Trends
In this episode, Bob ‘n Joyce put the spotlight on OD/HR practitioners and their role helping organizations navigate these exhilarating but terrifying times. Institutions, governments, and people worldwide are being challenged in ways not seen before.
What can organizational development and HR people do help their companies thrive in these times?
And what can we do on this podcast to support you?
Today, we attempt to answer these questions. Our goal is to be an island of sanity you can visit each week to get inspired and recharged. That why we have showed up every week for over three years. And in doing so, we get ourselves inspired and recharged.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob ‘n Joyce talk about the emotional highs and lows that surround the holidays. At a time when people feel compelled to be joyful, the holidays can also be a profoundly sad time. Today, we explore the power of expressing both the negative and positive emotions on any given situation or topic. We use the context of the holidays but it applies to most life circumstances and especially to the workplace.
Today’s episode was intended to express the positivity and joy of the season. Instead, Bob ‘n Joyce expose both the magic and hurt of the holidays. It was a cathartic conversation that was just what we both needed. We think you will too, so:
Come on in. Grab a holiday snack. Welcome!
In today’s episode, Bob’nJoyce discuss the impact OD/HR practitioners have shaping culture and transforming organizations. The spotlight, much to her chagrin, is on Joyce and her impact first at Central Maine Power, and later at Hannaford and Delhaize. It underscores the importance of what great leaders do – drive positive change while focusing on the business and its people, and not on themselves.
We are ending 2024 with episodes that inspire thought and positivity. Last week it was about the power of connection and community. This week it is about the work that makes it so. Kudos to my co-host and friend, Joyce Wilson-Sanford – who was and still is a force to be reckoned with.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome.
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce discuss why building community and connection in the workplace should be every leader’s responsibility. Research shows that the loneliness crisis is worsening as people are feel more isolated and marginalized. When this is prevalent in the workplace, overall morale, productivity, and safety suffer.
The opportunity for HR, OD, and Leadership is that a healthy workplace can be just what is needed for people to feel connected and seen. Bob’nJoyce put forward practical steps that leaders can take to promote true connection and camaraderie between employees. These actions, when done well are a win – win – win:
* Productivity improves.
* Worker engagement is enhanced.
* And employees feel less alone and hopeless.
Come on in. Grab a healthy holiday snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce rift on the recent trend of abandoning DEI programs in organizations and institutions. Companies that once were the champions of making all voices heard and valued, are tiptoeing, and in some instances, running away from their diversity initiatives. Spoiler alert – we think this is ill-advised and harmful.
There are many reasons for DEI’s demise - a prevailing scarcity mentality (I got mine, go get yours), and the far-right political tsunami to name a few. We believe smart organizations are bucking this trend and are continuing DEI work for the very reason they began them - the business case demands a high performing organization. Call it by another name if you must, but leaders, HR, and OD must carry this work forward.
Come on In. Grab a snack/ Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce discussed the power of guided dialogue for jumpstarting a team. This is a non-linear approach where new or struggling teams get together and use the power of dialogue to open up new possibilities and build trust. In HR/OD, some of our most important work involves getting teams and organizations unstuck. This inquiry methodology, in our experience, works better than most other interventions.
We resisted calling this a retreat (Breaking from day-to-day) as the work is a high intensity development experience for participants. The outcome is an accelerated getting clear about the who (we are), the where (we are going), and the why (it matters).
Here are a couple of rules that makes this approach work :
* No Selling, No Telling.
* Taking the 60 second pause
* When asking a question, people can say not now.
* Declaring I want…. We need…
* No notetakers or recording
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce muse about the paradox of being 'all in.' With the world in disarray, many consider withdrawing and checking out but more often than not end up choosing engagement and purpose.
So what is going on here? Being all in requires discipline and commitment to weather the tough patches. There is an expression that most of us start with the best of intentions and then life gets in the way. Well Joyce and I have been thrown a lot of life’s curveballs and we are still ‘all in’ on doing this work together. Join us to find out why we think this is so.
Come on in. Grab a Snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce muse on the X factor in why some leaders excel and thrive. The context is today’s podcast was recorded on November 5th, America’s election day and a new leader will be chosen. By the time you read this, we all will know the results and hopefully, what we shared will make sense of why either Trump or Harris won. My bet is that the winner possessed many of the attributes of this X Factor.
The bottom line is that while literally tens of thousands of leadership models have been written (We’ve created some of our own), what it often comes down to are a couple of the attributes you will hear today.
So, Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome.
In this Episode, exactly one week before the U.S. elections, Bob’nJoyce take on the timely topic of getting unstuck when uncertainty and anxiety run rampant.
As a country, we are trying to figure out how to move forward post-election despite half of the country being disappointed and angry. The same is true when a business is suddenly disrupted and what worked before no longer does. Bob’nJoyce lean into their experience and share lessons about ways to get organizations and its people unstuck and moving forward.
Come joins us in this doozy (Joyce’s word) of a topic and join us in taking a much-needed respite from political ads.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Joyce shares the characteristics and unique qualities of high performing CEOs she has worked with over her career. Again, Joyce reaches into her treasure chest of written reflections and makes them available to you, our valued listeners. Her observations are anything but your typical list of traits or rigid leadership models. What she shares may surprise you.
In Episode #165, Joyce shared a list of CEO flaws and flubs so it is only fair that we balance that with this episode. It is important to remember that all CEOs have flaws and signature strengths. This “perfect imperfection” is what makes a CEO both fully human and a leader worth following.
There is a lot of really good ‘stuff’ packed in today’s conversation.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce interview Corey Spitzer - serial entrepreneur, IT expert, start-up guru, and business change agent. Corey is a fractional CTO who helps clients solve the thorniest of product development and business growth challenges. He describes himself as an interpreter of sorts helping tech and business development people communicate and collaborate better.
Corey brings a wealth of experience and stories to help start-up execs get the most from their IT development teams. He is passionate about making a difference in the organizations and people he serves. We all know someone who loves riding on bumpy roads and solving hairy dilemmas. Corey is one of those people. And no, despite describing his work like making sausage, he has never actually done it as best we know.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce discuss how a network of auto repair tradespeople loosely organize as entrepreneurs to provide value and quality. There are a lot of ideas and lessons to be gleaned from this entrepreneurial innovation - think outsourcing done where everyone, especially the customer, wins. What can the rest of us learn from their example about org structure and how, when, and where work gets done?
In previous episodes, we discussed how org structures and traditional work arrangements are being replaced by innovative, flexible and, at times, counterintuitive approaches. We invite you to get curious about how your company can adapt using this innovative outsource model.
Come on In. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce discuss ways to unleash our best thinking when feeling stuck. We share concrete ideas to go from linear to lateral thinking that gets the creative juices following. In a world where dull thinking is way too common, these simple but effective ideas promote creativity and new thinking.
You will get:
* Meeting check-ins that get a group revved up and ready.
* How to use synectics - a creative problem-solving that combines seemingly unrelated things.
* An idea generator exercise that offers a lot of choices.
* An exercise that gets every voice heard.
This episode combines rigorous thinking with fun to bring out the best in our thinking.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce discuss CEO flaws and flubs they observed while working with them. CEO’s are human and therefore imperfect. The good news is that those we worked with possessed strengths that offset their shortcomings. Come listen and assess which flaws you may have.
Some of the flaws they observed include:
Failure to stay disciplined about messaging what matters most again and again..
Being susceptible to flattery and praise that impacts judgment.
Failure to hold in check the privilege and entitlement of power.
Not staying in touch with the grit of the business.
Being too protective and not demanding enough
We grimaced a lot at our own flaws and suspect you will too so buckle up.
So come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce address the challenge of moving from personal or organizational lethargy to vitality. Good leaders can sense the pulse of an organization and find ways to move the needle on the cultural vibe. So the question becomes how do you engage employees in order to make the shift?
Here are a couple of areas we mused on:
Responding to, ‘Well, it is what it is.’
Combating the malaise of boredom at work.
The importance of leaning into the discomfort through dialogue (versus measuring it through stay surveys).
The power of putting a name on what’s happening.
Joyce and Bob get feisty and gritty about what they believe is an oft ignored but important aspect of a healthy organization.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce muse on the merits and limitations of setting goals. Goal setting can both energize and move you to action but can also discourage and demotivate. It begs the question as to how you accomplish the former and avoid the latter. This topic is timely given the 2024 Paris Olympics and the stories athletes share about how they became the best in the world. The recurring theme is the power of goal setting that propelled them to become the best. The conundrum is to tap into that kind of goal setting and avoid that which distracts and bores.
Some take-a-ways include:
* Good goal moves you past your fear.
* Goal setting creates purpose and a path towards the next and that is a good thing.
* The power of collaboration and ownership when setting goals.
* Jettison goals that don’t inspire. This is a courageous act and not failing.
* The danger of goals handed down from above.
So come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
In this episode, Bob’nJoyce, go through a recent post where the author describes leadership attributes that makes a person worth following. While there are many leadership models, this one focuses on affinity, the ability to connect with others based on mutual respect and trust. The behaviors and attributes described in today’s podcast serves as a guide to assess how we are doing. Come listen to learn where you are nailing it and where you just might see an opportunity to be a better leader.
Come on in. Grab a snack. Welcome!
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