Chasing Leviathan

Why have we reduced the profound, human experience of eating into a sterile game of counting calories, optimizing nutrition, and "maxing" our productivity?Iowa State University's professor of practice, Dr. Scott Samuelson, joins host PJ Weary to discuss how the simple act of cooking can serve as a profound paradigm for leading a meaningful life.Dr. Samuelson explores the deep intersections of culinary arts and philosophical inquiry in his book, To Taste: On Cooking and the Good Life. They examine how true nourishment isn't found in abstract nutritional labels or industrial farming models, but rather requires active engagement, tradition, and shared human connection.In this conversation they explore: How conversations about Italian food with a Hegel scholar and moonlighting as a sous chef at a farm-to-table French restaurant revealed that cooking and philosophy are fundamentally the same pursuit. The dangers of the "barbarism of reflection"—how abstracting food into mere data points (like calories or gut biomes) strips away the cultural and relational essence of eating. Why the philosopher Alfred North Whitehead's stages of education—romance, discipline, and synthesis—perfectly mirror the journey of becoming a skilled cook and developing a personal style. The concept of playing the "Dodgeball of Evil" versus planting a "Garden of the Good," and why trying to be perfectly pure in our food ethics is less effective than actively growing honest practices around us. The problem with the modern obsession of "maxing" and optimizing our lives like industrial machines, rather than growing like diverse, resilient ecosystems. A poignant lesson from end-of-life care: why asking "what does a good day look like?" almost always centers around the simple joy of sharing a leisurely meal with loved ones.This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, culinary arts, and intentional living who wants to reconnect with the rich, sensory experiences that make life truly worth living.Make sure to check out Dr. Samuelson's book: To Taste: On Cooking and the Good Life: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226853667/Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. Timestamps0:00 Introducing Dr. Scott Samuelson 1:06 How Moonlighting as a Sous Chef Inspired a Philosophy Book 4:22 Why Cooking is the Perfect Paradigm for a Meaningful Life 7:44 Alfred North Whitehead and the Rhythm of Romance and Discipline 11:27 The Barbarism of Reflection and the Dangers of Abstracting Food 14:30 Why Reducing Meals to Pure Nutrition Harms Human Connection 17:20 How the Culture of Maxing and Optimization Weaponizes Health 19:17 Why Spending Leisurely Time in the Kitchen Defines a Good Day 25:53 Discovering the Romance of Culinary Arts through Lebanese Traditions 32:47 The Deep Intersubjective Meaning Behind Seasoning to Taste 36:27 Sourcing Fresh Ingredients and the True Ethics of Farm-to-Table Cooking 41:15 Why Cultivating the Garden of the Good Beats the Dodgeball of Evil 45:41 The Dangers of Monoculture Farming and the Industrial Human Model 49:49 Closing Thoughts

Why does modern morality often feel like an exhausting, impossible burden rather than an inspiring way to live? Are we all required to be perfect "moral exemplars," or is there a strong philosophical case for simply living a decent life?Dr. Todd May, the Nielsen Professor of the Humanities at Warren Wilson College (Asheville, NC), joins host PJ Weary to discuss how we can rethink our moral obligations and expectations in a highly demanding world.Dr. May explores the realistic boundaries of human goodness in his book, A Decent Life: Morality for the Rest of Us. They examine how genuine decency doesn't demand extreme altruism or austere self-sacrifice—like donating a kidney to a stranger just to maximize utility—but rather requires a "moral gracefulness" that allows us to care for others while still enjoying rich, meaningful human lives.In this conversation they explore: 🔷 Why the extreme utilitarian demands of philosophers like Peter Singer pushed Dr. May to write a practical moral framework designed for "sane people." 🔷 Susan Wolf's concept of "Moral Saints," and why a world full of perfect moral exemplars would actually force us to abandon deeply meaningful human experiences like art, music, and close friendship. 🔷 The crucial difference between altruism (strict self-sacrifice) and decency, and how to carry your morality as an inspiring opportunity rather than an exhausting lifelong burden. 🔷 Thomas Nagel's concept of "conditional moral luck," and how specific historic circumstances, like the Civil Rights movement in the South or today's climate crisis, can temporarily call us to step up beyond basic decency. 🔷 How to expand your circle of sympathy (borrowing from David Hume) starting with those closest to you in everyday life, and moving outward to future generations and non-human animals. 🔷 The concept of "backward causality" and how the climate legacy of the Boomer generation directly impacts their moral standing with Gen Z and Gen Alpha. 🔷 The profound importance of curiosity and visibility in ethics, from the ethics of dog ownership to the simple, humanizing act of looking unhoused individuals in the face. 🔷 How to practically navigate politics and road rage without burning out or losing your own humanity.This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, ethics, and healthy living who wants to understand how to be a genuinely good person and improve their local communities without sacrificing their own well-being or burning out in a polarized world.Make sure to check out Dr. May's book: A Decent Life: Morality for the Rest of Us: https://www.amazon.com/dp/022660974XCheck out our website at chasingleviathan.com Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. Timestamps0:00 Introducing Dr. Todd May3:17 Defining Decency and the Problem With Moral Exemplars3:43 Lessons on Moral Expectations From Teresa of Avila and Elijah7:40 Susan Wolf and the Hidden Cost of Being a Moral Saint11:14 Altruism vs. Decency and Finding Moral Grace14:30 Cultural Decency Norms in Copenhagen vs. the United States15:50 Thomas Nagel and the Realities of Conditional Moral Luck20:00 David Hume and Widening Our Circle of Sympathy22:20 Practical Decency and the Controversial Coffee Cup Example24:45 Why Curiosity is the True Foundation of Moral Decency28:40 Extending Ethics to Future Generations and Non-Human Animals32:00 David Boonin and Our Moral Obligations to the Dead33:00 Climate Change and the Boomer Generation's Moral Legacy35:40 Moral Individualism and the Ethics of Animal Rights39:15 The Complexities of Factory Farming and Real-World Policy40:40 Navigating Modern Politics With Decency44:40 Analyzing Personal Narratives and Road Rage Values50:50 Practical Tips for Living a More Decent Life Today

Why do we claim to love our dogs while breeding them for dependence and keeping them in environments that strip away their daily choices?Bioethicist and author Dr. Jessica Pierce joins host PJ Wehry on Chasing Leviathan to discuss human-animal relationships and the profound interconnections between ecosystems and health.Dr. Pierce explores the ethics of our canine bonds in her book, Who's a Good Human? Practical Exercises for Living Mindfully with Dogs. They examine how an ethical relationship isn't about demanding strict obedience from a "pet," but rather requires the skills of curiosity, collaboration, and care.In this conversation they explore:Why the standard model of viewing dogs simply as pets is flawed, and how to embrace the collaborative, often messy project of living together. The concept of "experiential ethics"—or embodied ethics—and how mucking through complex life experiences teaches us more than abstract philosophical principles. How a scientific thought experiment about dogs surviving a human-erasing rapture revealed that dogs might actually be better off without us. The "phenomenological recalibration" Dr. Pierce experienced after becoming a volunteer firefighter in her mountain community, and how it radically shifted her perception of the natural world. The dark side of modern dog breeding, the cultural obsession with unhealthy breeds like pugs and French Bulldogs, and why humans are psychologically drawn to canine dependence. Why we should view modern companion dogs as "captive animals" and how introducing micro-choices into their daily routines can profoundly improve their welfare. How applying the Zen Buddhist concept of "beginner's mind" and practicing deep curiosity can transform our knee-jerk annoyances—like a dog barking—into moments of mindful communication.This is a conversation for anyone interested in bioethics, dog ethology, and mindfulness who wants to understand how to sincerely navigate our relationship with animals while honoring their fundamental needs and agency.Make sure to check out Dr. Pierce's book: Who's a Good Human? Practical Exercises for Living Mindfully with Dogs 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226854213/Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. Timestamps00:00:00 Introducing Dr. Jessica Pierce00:04:08 Experiential Ethics and Training Attention 00:05:22 Would Dogs Survive Without Humans?00:07:30 Firefighting and Phenomenological Recalibration 00:16:00 The Problem with Armchair Philosophy 00:19:21 Navigating Imperfect Moral Choices 00:23:42 The Dark Side of Dog Breeding 00:26:18 The Environmental Impact of Healthcare 00:29:26 Navigating End of Life Pet Care 00:33:51 Ethical Complications of Owning Dogs 00:40:36 Recognizing Dogs as Captive Animals 00:43:10 Providing Choices for Captive Dogs 00:45:32 Engaging with Anti-Dog Sentiments 00:51:00 Why Dogs Deserve Meaningful Work 00:54:19 Applying Beginners Mind and Curiosity 

Why did one of the most famous and ambitious philosophers in European history fall completely out of favor in just a few decades, and why is his totalizing view of reality still relevant today? Northwestern University's associate professor of philosophy and president of the Hegel Society of America, Dr. Mark Alznauer, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the breathtaking scope and historical impact of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. Dr. Alznauer explores Hegel's attempt to map the entire cosmos, human civilization, and religion from a single logical concept in his book, Hegel's Sole Idea: The Last Great Metaphysical System. They examine how Hegel's "encyclopedia system" served as the last grand metaphysical project in Western thought, why his immediate successors violently rejected it, and how his legacy continues to shape our modern historical awareness. In this conversation they explore: Why Hegel’s system is comparable to monumental literary works like Dante's Divine Comedy or Tolstoy's War and Peace in its attempt to provide a comprehensive, organized worldview. The provocative way Hegel positioned his philosophy as the "Holy Spirit," claiming it could conceptually prove the theological truths that Christianity only provided in pictures or representations. The swift collapse of Hegel's reputation after his death in 1831, leading to the deep divide between the Right and Left Hegelians, including the materialist critiques of Ludwig Feuerbach and Karl Marx. Søren Kierkegaard's fierce rejection of Hegel's objective system, arguing that true Christianity requires a passionate, existential decision rather than cold, speculative contemplation. How Hegel’s philosophy of history—arguing that human epochs unfold with internal, logical necessity toward freedom—differs radically from the contingent, sociological explanations we rely on today. The neo-Hegelian influence on Francis Fukuyama’s "End of History," and how questioning the ultimate direction of political history remains deeply relevant as our democratic landscapes continue to evolve. This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, history, and theology who wants to understand the dizzying ambition of the last great metaphysical system and the profound ways its failure shaped the modern intellectual landscape. Make sure to check out Dr. Alznauer's book: Hegel's Soul Idea: The Last Great Metaphysical System 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226853675/ Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. Timestamps0:00 Introducing Mark Alznauer 00:01:08 Why Hegel's Encyclopedia System Matters Today   00:04:18 Comparing Hegel to Dante and Tolstoy   00:12:47 Understanding the Logos and Absolute Idea   00:17:15 How Philosophy Replaces Religion in Hegelian Thought   00:20:07 Karl Marx and the Left Hegelian Critique   00:26:54 Kierkegaard's Existential Rebellion against Hegel   00:33:56 The Ultimate Failure of Western Metaphysics   00:39:16 Charles Taylor and the Neo Hegelian Historical Method   00:44:46 Historical Necessity Versus Sociological Contingency   00:47:56 Francis Fukuyama and the End of History   00:58:40 How Hegel Influenced the Modern Social Sciences   01:00:53 Closing Thoughts

Why do morally good people often hesitate to change other people's minds, viewing persuasion as presumptuous, obnoxious, or downright creepy? The University of Washington's professor of philosophy, Dr. Colin Marshall, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss how to successfully bridge deep divides in our highly polarized climate.Dr. Marshall explores the ethics and psychology of civil persuasion in his book, Just Hear Me Out: How to Change Minds Without Lies, Bullshit, or Moral Compromise. They examine how genuine persuasion isn't about manipulation or aggressive takedowns , but rather requires a delicate balance of respect, compassion, and the right environment.In this conversation they explore: Why the fallout of the 2016 US presidential election pushed Dr. Marshall from pure theoretical philosophy into finding practical tools for civil engagement. The crucial difference between manipulative persuasion—where people are treated as obstacles to maneuver—and civil persuasion that honors a person's complete humanity. How combining Immanuel Kant's emphasis on rational respect with Arthur Schopenhauer's focus on deep compassion creates a coherent framework for changing minds. Why attempting to persuade someone at the Thanksgiving table almost always fails, and the importance of establishing an "attention-friendly context" like grabbing a coffee or a beer. Incredible real-world examples of successful persuasion, including Daryl Davis persuading extremists to leave the KKK and Megan Phelps-Roper leaving the Westboro Baptist Church after patient, charitable interactions on Twitter. The concept of "moral myopia"—the deeply human tendency to become so hyper-focused on one moral issue or our own self-respect that we lose sight of the other person's bandwidth and feelings. The psychology of building trust, and why establishing warmth and shared humanity must always come before proving your intellectual competence. This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, psychology, and healthy communication who wants to understand how to sincerely navigate our modern disagreements without sacrificing their own moral integrity.Make sure to check out Dr. Marshall's book: Just Hear Me Out: How to Change Minds without Lies, Bullshit, or Moral Compromise 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226842002/Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. Timestamps0:00 Introducing Dr. Colin Marshall1:17 Why Good People Avoid Persuasion After the 2016 Election4:32 Respect and Compassion in Kant and Schopenhauer6:16 Balancing Respect and Compassion in Difficult Conversations8:38 Thanksgiving, Arguments, and Creating Better Conversation Contexts9:09 Daryl Davis, Jane Addams, and Megan Phelps Roper as Persuasion Case Studies13:17 Curiosity, Compassion, and Seeing People You Disagree With15:57 Self Respect, Boundaries, and When to Disengage or Walk Away18:15 Mr. Rogers' Congress Testimony and Quiet Moral Confidence19:35 Manipulation Versus Civil Persuasion and the Marionette Metaphor24:32 Attention Friendly Contexts and Why Rushing Arguments Fails33:42 Moral Myopia and Missing Key Ethical Pieces in Arguments40:34 Respect Versus Trust and When Not to Trust Someone44:44 Warmth, Competence, and the Psychology of Building Trust47:53 Practical Ways to Build Trust and Show You Know What You are Talking About52:02 Closing Thoughts