Committing to Cloud Native

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Alex Ellis Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native technology and Open Source. Today, we are super excited to have as our guest Alex Ellis, who is the Founder of OpenFaaS, which is one of the most popular open source serverless projects, as well as a CNCF Ambassador. Alex takes us on his journey on how he Founded OpenFaaS. He talks about how important independence is to him, OpenFaaS, and other projects he’s worked on, and shares some influential books that he read that helped him in his journey of setting up a company. We also hear his views on how to build a sustainable open source community. Alex goes in depth about some of his other projects he created, recently being invited to join GitHub Stars program, and three eBooks he self-published that you should check out online! Go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=107)] Alex tells us what OpenFaaS is, how adoption has gone, and how many people have used it and committed to it. [00:04:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=267)] Richard wonders how Alex funds the project, if there’s a business model, and if it’s big enough to have people afford to work on it. [00:07:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=451)] Justin brings up a keynote that Kelsey Hightower did on the benefits of Amazon’s Lambda at KubeCon and wonders if that or just other presentations in the community have an effect on OpenFaaS to become a project of its size now. [00:11:06 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=666)] How do people react to using OpenFaaS in their organization since it’s not in the CNCF as an incubation project? [00:12:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=772)] Alex talks about independence and how important it is to him, OpenFaaS, and all the other projects he’s worked on. He also talks about a few good books he read that helped him with his journey in setting up a company such as, Million Dollar Consulting. [00:17:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1042)] We learn from Alex his views on how to build a sustainable open source community and another great book he learned from called, The Right It by Alberto Savoia, who is the Head of Innovation at Google. [00:22:42 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1362)] Alex is known for creating other projects which seems to go against the idea of doing something small and seeing if it works, so we find out why he likes to create other projects. [00:27:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1671)] Alex tells us about being very active on Twitter, he talks about Daniel Vassallo who created a course on how to create a Twitter following, and about writing his blog posts. [00:31:38 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1898)] Alex got something from GitHub twenty-three hours ago. Find out what he got and why. [00:36:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=2207)] What is GrowLab? [00:39:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=2347)] Find out where you can follow Alex online and three eBooks he self-published. Quotes [00:04:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=286)] “Yeah, I mean it isn’t big enough to have people afford to work on it. That’s probably the biggest lie of open source is, the bigger something is that the more money is rolling into it.” [00:05:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=300)] “Even community contributions, as lovely as they are, there aren’t people with full-time jobs who said on their CV that says ‘Full-Time OpenFaas Contributor.’ That just isn’t the case with something like this.” [00:05:42 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=342)] “It basically says something like open source isn’t about you.” [00:06:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=412)] “In marketing framework, you’ll read is that a sustainable business has value exchange or value capture that is equal between all three parties: the consumers of it, the company or the creator behind it, and the community of partners, contributors, and sort of third parties.” [00:08:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=508)] “I actually think that managed Cloud functions are a really smart idea. They’re great to use. The cost cannot be beat in any way.” [00:10:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=635)] “What you don’t want to create, something I’ve really learned, is a commodity. And further than that, you don’t want to create something where there’s no capability for you to capture value from it.” [00:13:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=780)] “I mean, for me, what I mean by independence is not being employed by any one company.” [00:14:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=857)] “I had created some insights in the industry and the only way I could get the job that I wanted was by creating it myself.” [00:25:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1522)] “Well, some of the earliest clients I was working with, their audience wasn’t really at the stage where they were ready for full on Kubernetes, but K3s was nascent, it was stirring a lot of hearts, and people really like the idea of simplicity.” [00:30:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/25?t=1841)] “And what I learned in the industry was you really want to focus on the impact that you’ve had rather than on the detail.” Links Alex Ellis Twitter (https://twitter.com/alexellisuk/) Alex Ellis Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexellisuk?originalSubdomain=uk) Alex Ellis Website (https://www.alexellis.io/) OpenFaaS (https://www.openfaas.com/) Open Source is Not About You-GitHub Gist (https://gist.github.com/g1eny0ung/9e7d4d0f72547a8d156452e76fa8f7a3) GrowLab (https://growlab.dev/) Million Dollar Consulting: The Professional’s Guide to Growing a Practice by Alan Weiss (https://www.amazon.com/Million-Dollar-Consulting-Professionals-Practice/dp/1259588610/ref=sr_1_3?crid=ELRL5Y8FVNF8&dchild=1&keywords=million+dollar+consulting+by+alan+weiss&qid=1634322457&sr=8-3) The Right It: Why So Many Ideas Fail and How to Make Sure Yours Succeed by Alberto Savoia (https://www.amazon.com/The-Right-It-Alberto-Savoia-audiobook/dp/B07MWD2GKL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3UIUG8KNB14XU&dchild=1&keywords=the+right+it+alberto+savoia&qid=1634323412&sr=8-2) Everyone Can Build A Twitter Audience Course by Daniel Vassallo (https://dvassallo.gumroad.com/l/twitter-audience) Daniel Vassallo Twitter (https://twitter.com/dvassallo?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Serverless For Everyone Else by Alex Ellis (https://openfaas.gumroad.com/l/serverless-for-everyone-else) Netbooting Workshop for Raspberry Pi with K3s by Alex Ellis (https://openfaas.gumroad.com/l/netbooting-raspberrypi) Everyday Golang by Alex Ellis (https://openfaas.gumroad.com/l/everyday-golang) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Processing... 😅 Special Guest: Alex Ellis.

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman Guest Justin Garrison Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast sponsored by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native technology and Open Source. Today, our guest is Justin Garrison, who is a Developer Advocate at Amazon. He also worked at Disney Animation and Disney Streaming Services, and we found out what he did there before going to Amazon. Justin created bashScheduler, and he tells us why he said, “This is a really bad idea!” We learn more about his book, Cloud Native Infrastructure: Patterns for Scalable Infrastructure and Applications in a Dynamic Environment, a blog post he wrote about “The Economics of Writing a Technical Book,” a talk he did for DevOpsDays Portland 2021 called TikTalk, and his cool “manpage” resume. Also, he shares some insight on how he sees recognition as something we could really bring into the software industry. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out so much more! [00:01:18 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=78)] Before Amazon, our guest, Justin, worked at Disney and he fills us in on what he did there and what he does now. [00:04:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=276)] Justin tells us more about his book, Cloud Native Infrastructure: Patterns for Scalable Infrastructure and Applications in a Dynamic Environment. [00:08:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=526)] What’s going on with remote conferences and talks? [00:11:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=677)] Find out more about a talk Justin recorded for DevOpsDays Portland 2021 called TikTalk. He also tells us if there is an open source community on TikTok. [00:14:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=867)] Justin created bashScheduler and we find out what it does and why he said, “This is a really bad idea!” [00:20:50 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1250)] How did Justin get a Linux.com email address? [00:21:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1303)] Justin Dorfman is impressed with Justin’s man-page resume and he fills us in on the details and some tips on doing a resume. [00:24:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1466)] Justin mentions a brag document that he used by Julia Evans and her website called Wizard Zines. [00:26:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1585)] Will Justin write a follow up book to the Cloud Native Infrastructure? [00:29:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1752)] Justin tells us about a blog post he wrote three years ago called, “The Economics of Writing a Technical Book.” [00:30:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=1843)] When Justin was at Disney, he got a movie credit for working on Zootopia which won an Oscar, and he talks about recognition being something he could see bringing into the software industry. He also shares something interesting about movie credits and recognition. [00:34:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=2073)] The guys chat about how CNCF has done a great job about having the “Chop Wood Carry Water” Awards at KubeCon and the people behind the scene that have such a huge impact in the foundation. [00:36:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/24?t=2206)] All Things Open 2021 is coming up and Justin will be giving a talk called, “Internet Scale, Open Source with Kubernetes,” that you should check out. Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Justin Garrison Twitter (https://twitter.com/rothgar) Justin Garrison Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/justingarrison/) Justin Garrison Website (https://www.justingarrison.com/) Justin Garrison TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@justinleegarrison) Infrastructure for Entertainment-Justin Garrison (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtedIghTPzI) DevOpsDays Portland 2021- Justin Garrison- Ignite- TikTalk (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQJYlZUhBt8) Cloud Native Infrastructure: Patterns for Scalable Infrastructure and Applications in a Dynamic Environment by Justin Garrison (https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Native-Infrastructure-Applications-Environment/dp/1491984309) The Economics of Writing a Technical Book by Justin Garrison (Medium) (https://rothgar.medium.com/the-economics-of-writing-a-technical-book-689d0c12fe39) bashScheduler-GitHub (https://github.com/rothgar/bashScheduler) Committing to Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 22-Thoughts on Bash Becoming Interplanetary and More with Brian J. Fox (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22) Justin Garrison - man-page resume (https://www.justingarrison.com/resume.html) Wizard Zines (https://wizardzines.com/) Get your work recognized: write a brag document by Julia Evans (https://jvns.ca/blog/brag-documents/) All Things Open 2021 (https://2021.allthingsopen.org/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:02] Justin Garrison: It's slightly different than infrastructure is code environment where you have a repo of YAML files or something. Whenever you change them, it pushes out and it says, okay, now I'm going to make the world look like that. But this infrastructure of software has a tighter loop. It has more consistency to say, hey, if anything changes, right now, I'm going to revert that change, I'm going to make sure that the world concept looks like this with running software, and not just a repository full of code. That really was like the key thing that we came out of cloud native infrastructure. We saw that pattern over and over again, at successful companies. Amazon, Netflix, Google, Microsoft, like all these companies are focusing on how do we run our infrastructure, not by people, always reverting changes, but software doing that, and Kubernetes was, again, the controllers pattern was kind of the Northstar for us to say like, this is how it's done. [00:52] Announcer: Hello, and welcome to committing to cloud native, the podcast where we talk about the interface between open source and cloud native. We're super excited about our guest today. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. [01:07] Justin: Hey, everyone, I'm here with Justin Garrison. He's a developer advocate at Amazon. He lives in Los Angeles like me, we share a first name. Hey, Justin, how are you doing? [01:16] Justin Garrison: I'm doing just fine, Justin. [01:18] Justin: Awesome. Before Amazon, you were at Disney, what's under the hood there. You work on Disney plus talk about this. [01:26] Justin Garrison: I was at Disney animation for four and a half years doing infrastructure for the future animated films, working on render farm artists, workstations, internal servers, which is a great eye opening experience. I learned a lot of deep Linux technology and kind of how to run things at scale, especially on prem. But we're also using multiple different services and that was really when containers were starting to come around. I started focusing more and more on how that can enable developers to deploy things on prem or in the cloud. It was really impressive for me just to be able to work in that environment. [02:00] Then I moved over to Disney streaming services, which created Disney plus ESPN plus a lot of different smaller streaming services in there. I write infrastructure for them. Behind the scenes of Disney plus as Amazon. It's a lot of Amazon, I really started learning a lot more about how to run services in Amazon at scale, and how to do things with native services. My team was specifically in charge of the centralized container infrastructure we had. With the containers that we were running in Amazon, what does that look like? How did we enable developers to deploy in simple ways, so there's actually quite a few different Disney plus talks that reinvent from last year. [02:37] If you want to find out some of the details about how Disney plus runs very specific things, I did three or four talks at reinvents, which go deep into how we were deploying things, how we were running things, what native services we were using at Disney plus. I actually, I did a talk with my old co worker Zack. We were on the same team at Disney plus, and then I had switched over to Amazon. It was great talking to him about how we created the deployment tools and how we were managing the centralized infrastructure. Lower the cognitive load for a lot of developers to not have to learn everything about the entire stack of like, okay, where's the Linux running? Where's the container fit in? Where's the scheduler fit in? Where's Amazon components and VPC in there. [03:17] We kind of took care of all that for them, and gave them more of a platform style environment of just saying, hey, I have an app, here's my container, deploy 100 bucks, and we'd make sure that gets done, it's highly available and all of the best practices that we had for logging and monitoring and some defaults for dashboards. All that stuff just got created for them out of the box, and they didn't have to really worry about it or think about it. Then they could tweak or change things as they had need. [03:44] Justin: Did they just like poach you from reinvent? [03:49] Justin Garrison: I was really excited learning so much about Amazon from Disney Animation, and Disney streaming, and just saying, hey, like I have learned a lot in the last six years at Disney. I could really turn that around and help more people do these things in Amazon do very similar things in Amazon. I was first and foremost a customer that was just like, telling people about it. I was going into my own conferences and telling people hey, this is Kubernetes. Here's EKS, here's how containers help and doing those things day to day. Then now I do it for my day job. It's not actually something I do on t

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Andrew Martin Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast sponsored by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native technology and Open Source. We have a great guest today, Andrew Martin, joining us from London. He is the CEO of Control Plane, a Cloud Native security consultancy training and pen test firm. We learn more about Andrew’s background, how he got involved in Kubernetes and Cloud security, and more about Cloud Plane. In 2019, Andrew made some Kubernetes predictions, and we find out today if any of them came true. We also find out how he keeps updated on what’s going on with open source in Cloud Native and other things. Since he has such a wealth of knowledge, Andrew fills us in on his book coming out soon called Hacking Kubernetes: Threat-Driven Analysis and Defense, and what chapter he’s most looking forward to people reading and why. We couldn’t let Andrew go without asking him for his “Predictions for 2023!” Go ahead and download this episode now to learn so much more from Andrew! [00:01:34 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=94)] Andrew tells us what Control Plane is, what does it does, and how many people they have working there. [00:02:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=133)] What is the average size of company in this space and why would someone need extra security on top of Cloud Native? [00:06:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=418)] Andrew tells us how he got involved with Kubernetes, Cloud security, and more about his background. [00:10:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=622)] We find out why Andrew thinks Kubernetes succeeded and Docker Swarm didn’t. [00:11:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=717)] In 2019, Andrew made some predictions and Justin wants to see if any of them came true. First prediction, did hosted services catch up with GKE? [00:12:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=779)] Second prediction, did non-container VM-based isolation improvement happen? [00:16:39 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=999)] With Andrew’s vast knowledge Richard wonders what he uses to keep updated on how open source works in Cloud Native and if there’s a Medium Blog that he’s subscribes to. Also, he shares which conference he will be attending this year and others he recommends. Justin gives a shout-out to TAG Security and their meetups. [00:20:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1205)] Andrew’s book he co-wrote with Michael Hausenblas, Hacking Kubernetes, is discussed and he tells us the chapter he’s most looking forward to having people read. [00:23:49 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1429)] Justin wonders if any of Andrew’s colleagues reviewed the book or if it’s all done with O’Reilly. [00:25:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1526)] Andrew explains what he does to make sure that people at Control Plane are actually getting the best of the open source world without which it wouldn’t exist. [00:29:03 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1743)] Richard is curious to know what method Andrew uses to find an interesting problem and how does he do security research in a way that makes him feel really excited about doing that sort of work. [00:32:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1942)] We hear one last 2019 Kubernetes prediction and that is, if the tangle of YAML was going to unravel by 2019? He also talks about image and build metadata security matures which was another prediction. [00:35:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=2153)] Richard asks Andrew if he’s worked with Dan Lorenc in the Sigstore Project and Justin gives a shout-out to Dan and Episode 20 on this podcast to check out. [00:36:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=2174)] Andrew shares his predictions for 2023. [00:39:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=2367)] Find out where you can follow Andrew and the work he does. Quotes [00:03:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=201)] “The shared responsibility model gives us a different level of interaction with our cloud provider based upon what is ultimately platform as a service or infrastructure as a service or software as a service as well.” [00:04:03 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=243)] “But when it comes to how we behave operationally the cloud provider can make no guarantees that we’re not shipping bad code to production.” [00:10:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=651)] “And service meshes were being shipped by Docker Swarm before they were cool.” [00:11:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=689)] “So, from a networking perspective, Docker Swarm was much better out of the box because it was batteries included, but changeable, and came with its own networking paradigm.” [00:11:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=700)] “However, the inability to run multiple containers in a pod meant that there was no flexibility of application to Pology, and that’s really where Kubernetes stole the show.” [00:13:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=794)] “Google had this huge infrastructure, all these Borg cells, Flexible Compute to host Gmail and Google Search and calendar, and maps.” [00:14:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=850)] “And so still definitely harboring loads of zero days that are probably being exploited somewhere by somebody.” [00:25:32 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1532)] “Democratization and open sourcing of security, tooling, and information has been a constant source of utter amazement to me.” [00:26:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1573)] “At some point, I have wondered, and I noticed the case for other security researchers in the Cloud Native space as well, if actually we’re a bit further ahead with the art of the possible than the current state of the art.” [00:26:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1596)] “So we try very hard to open source everything.” [00:29:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=1763)] “I think the most important think speaking personally, but also infusing teams and displaying leadership, is to infuse or inculcate a shared sense of passion for thing.” [00:37:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=2231)] “So actually, one of the things that I really love is the function as a service approach, on top of STO, on top of Knative, on top of Kubernetes, because you then get the full observability of the whole platform.” [00:37:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/23?t=2243)] “You can apply this intrusion detection, you can use your namespace, aware tools in order to introspect more deeply, and you can also satisfy what ultimately the kingmakers, the developers require because there’s no point building a secure system if the developers can’t ship business functionality through it.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Curiefense Blog (https://www.curiefense.io/blog) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Andrew Martin Twitter (https://twitter.com/sublimino) Andrew Martin Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/andr3wmartin/) Control Plane (https://control-plane.io/) Hacking Kubernetes: Threat-Driven Analysis and Defense by Andrew Martin and Michael Hausenblas (https://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Kubernetes-Threat-Driven-Analysis-Defense/dp/1492081736/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Hacking+kubernetes&qid=1633728820&sr=8-3)_ Hacking Kubernetes: Threat-Driven Analysis and Defense by Andrew Martin and Michael Hausenblas (Amazon UK) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hacking-Kubernetes-Threat-Driven-Analysis-Defense/dp/1492081736/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=hacking+kubernetes&qid=1630843908&sr=8-3&pldnSite=1) Committing to Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 20: Taking Open Source Supply Chain Security Seriously with Dan Lorenc (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20) SANS SEC584: Cloud Native Security: Defending Containers and Kubernetes-Course with Andrew Martin (https://www.sans.org/cyber-security-courses/cloud-native-security-defending-containers-kubernetes/) O’Reilly Kubernetes Threat Modeling Course with Andrew Martin (https://www.oreilly.com/live-events/kubernetes-threat-modeling/0636920055610/0636920055609/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:02] Andrew Martin: One of the things that I really love is the function as a service approach on top of STO, on top of K native on top of Kubernetes. Because you then get full observability of the whole platform, you can apply this intrusion detection, you can use your namespace, aware tools in order to introspect more deeply, and should also satisfy what ultimately the kingmakers, the developers require. Because there's no point building a secure system if the developers can't ship business functionality through it. Platform for functions with Kubernetes is underneath. [00:33] Richard: Hello, and welcome to committing to cloud native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of cloud native technology and open source. Super excited to talk to you today, been a while since we've had a podcast, very happy to be back at the track or whatever. I don't know something. Anyway, our other panelists we had today besides the illustrious Richard [inaudible 00:55]. That

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Brian J. Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native and Open Source. Today, we have an amazing guest with a long history of open source in the space and that is the legendary Brian J. Fox, who is the Co-Founder of Orchid, a blockchain company that started in 2017. Also, he created the Bash Shell and he was the first employee of the Free Software Foundation. Brian shares the story of how he ended up at FSF, his thoughts on the success of Bash after all these years, which includes running on Mars currently. We learn everything he did before he Co-Founded Orchid, he tells us all about Orchid and how it works, his thoughts on the open source movement and where he sees it going, and more about the value of cloud companies. We also find out Brian is a bassist in a band, so if you want to find out more go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=111)] Brian tells us how he ended up at the FSF. [00:05:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=308)] Justin wonders if Brian thought Bash would still be around and he tells us it’s running on Mars in the helicopter. [00:07:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=428)] Richard brings up that Bash is on Windows and asks Brian to talk about how that happened and what his reaction was. [00:09:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=540)] At some point Brian left FSF and went to Orchid, and Richard wonders how that started. Brian fills us in on all the things he did in between FSF and Orchid. [00:14:01 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=841)] We learn how Orchid works and its physical infrastructure. [00:18:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1131)] Brian tells us about the protocol being strictly peer to peer, and he explains more about the Orchid network and the bandwidth. [00:22:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1331)] Justin asks if Brian still seeds or if he has enough users where it’s just kind of self-sustaining. Brian mentions OXT which is the name of the Orchid cryptocurrency. [00:23:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1416)] Richard is curious and wants to know what Brian thinks about open source as a movement in the last two or three years, where does he think it’s going, and how does he think he’s leveraging that in Orchid in as best a way possible to make sure the success of the system that he’s building. [00:27:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1677)] We find out from Brian that he’s all about problem solving and the architecture that goes into the problem solving and it’s about the expression. [00:29:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1780)] How does Brian thread the line between being an open source diehard and I run a capitalist firm. [00:32:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=1953)] Justin does a U-turn to the conversation and goes back to the VPN industry and wants to know Brian’s thoughts on the current market of traditional VPN’s that are not crypto powered. [00:33:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=2013)] Brian tells us how he deals with requests from law enforcement agencies. [00:35:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/22?t=2154)] We end with Brian telling us where you can find him online, he tells us about his band Chillpoint that you should checkout, and he leaves us with thoughts on cloud companies not going away. Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Curiefense Blog (https://www.curiefense.io/blog) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Brian J. Fox Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianjhanfox/) Brian J. Fox Twitter (https://twitter.com/brianjfox) Chillpoint Band (https://chillpointband.com/) Bash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_(Unix_shell)) GNU Bash (https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/) Free Software Foundation (https://www.fsf.org/) Orchid (https://www.orchid.com/) Orchid OXT (https://www.coindesk.com/price/orchid) nixCraft (https://bash.cyberciti.biz/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:01] Richard: Bash is awesome, I use bash every single year as it is. [00:03] Justin: I do too, it's always open. [00:05] Richard: So I'm also just incredibly grateful for your work. [00:07] Brian J Fox: Thank you guys so much. I use Bash all the time and I just want to quickly say that the people who provide documentation and instructions on how to use these tools that have been around a long time, they are doing a fantastic service and NixCraft is one of those. You should check them out if you can online. [00:26] Richard: Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud-Native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of the cloud and open-source. Today, we have an amazing guest with a long history of open-source in this space. Super excited to have him on. Before I introduce our guest, I want to make sure that the audience knows who was talking. I'm Richard Littauer, I'm your normal host and then we also have Justin Dorfman, the other normal host. Justin, how are you today? [00:57] Justin: Normal. [00:57] Richard: Yes, me too, just totally normal, just in no way exceptional or interesting. [01:02] Justin: I'll be honest. I'll be honest, Richard, I am a little nervous because who we have on right now is a legend. So go ahead. [01:10] Richard: Yes, but he hasn't done that much, right? Like Brian J. Fox, he's smiling right now. He's just a normal guy, right? Wearing a black t-shirt, got glasses on. [01:18] Brian J Fox: Yes, I would say of the three of us I am definitely the most normal. [01:21] Richard: That's true. That's true. [01:22] Justin: Could be. [01:23] Richard: Audience, you can't tell I'm wearing a pizza for a hat, not true. Brian has a long history in this space. He's the co-founder of Orchid, a blockchain company, started in 2017, but he's also done a lot more than that. So he created the Bash Shell. He was the first employee of FSF, otherwise known as the Free Software Foundation. That's about where my brain just stopped and was like, wow, I don't even know where else. How did you end up there? How did that happen? [01:54] Brian J Fox: How did I end up at the Free Software Foundation? [01:56] Richard: Mhmm. [01:57] Brian J Fox: So, I was excited about working with computers and I started writing some software on an Apple two computer around, I don't know, 1980, 1981 and I was teaching a gifted and talented; I'm ancient, by the way, I'm about a million years old. [02:14] Richard: He looks like it too. [02:15] Brian J Fox: Yes, I do. I appear quite old. I'm just kind of a bent-over, decrepit old man. I was teaching gifted and talented seventh and eighth graders and the language that they were learning, I was doing some computer stuff with them, and the language that they were using was called terrapin logo and the terrapin logo software was somewhat broken and I used to delve in there and fix it in the Apple two, you could break into the monitor and make changes to your running software by actually just patching the code live. So I was doing that one day and the owner of the Terrapin company saw me doing that and said, wow, would you like a job? I said, sure, why not? And I already had relationships at the MIT AI lab, Marvin Minsky was a family friend and I went to school a few years ahead of his youngest twins, Henry and Julie Minsky, who are still great friends of mine by the way, wonderful human beings. [03:12]So anyway, I started working for Terrapin and the two other guys that were working at Terrapin were also grad students at the AI Lab. So there was a lot of overlap between things that were happening at the artificial intelligence lab and this job I was doing, and I wrote a full-blown version of Emacs for the Apple two called A-Macs. It was an 80 column editor with dynamically loaded libraries and printing modules and multiple languages. It was free. It was pretty full-featured and I was very excited about it and I wanted to show it to my, then at that time hero Richard Stallman, because he had written Emacs and Emacs to me was the embodiment of how to think about software architecture. I could see from using the program, I could kind of understand the architecture behind the way in which it was built and I thought that was super elegant. So that kind of made me want to write a version of Emacs, so I did that and then I ran over to the lab and I saw Richard Solomon coming down the steps and I said, Richard, I have to tell you something. He said, what? He didn't know me at all. I said, I wrote this complete version of Emacs for the Apple two, and it's called A-Macs and it's got all medics completion and everything, it's super good and he says, well, I don't think I'm a good distribution point for that and then left. [04:25]He kind of had completely missed that I was saying, you're my hero and I tried to emulate you and thought that maybe I was talking about distributing software. So the guys I was working with a Terrapin about six months after that said to me, you should talk to Richard Stallman, he's

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Snow Pettersen Envoy Proxy Senior Maintainer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native and Open Source. Today, our special guest is Snow Pettersen, who is an Envoy Proxy Senior Maintainer working at Lyft on the Resilience team. Snow has done Cloud Native at Square, Netflix, Lyft, and he tells us how it’s changed over the years and a particular challenge he had recently. He also shares with us about problems with the release and rollout with sidecars in Envoy. Speaking of Envoy, Snow explains exactly what it is and what it does. We also learn the architecture of Envoy, the new contrib folder proposal, extensions coming out, and the “golden rules” to follow when reviewing a code. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more and thank you for joining us today! [00:02:06 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=126)] Snow has done Cloud Native at Square, Netflix, and Lyft. Find out how it’s changed over the years. He also tells us about a recent challenge he had. [00:03:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=227)] We learn from Snow that the biggest headache he’s seeing with people using Envoy has been the release and rollout problem with sidecars. [00:06:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=407)] Tzury wonders how Snow would explain Envoy to someone. He also tells us how it switches to the new set of configurations while processing and Envoy’s scalability on a single machine. [00:13:16 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=796)] Snow goes more in depth about the architecture of Envoy and the new contrib folder proposal. [00:20:24 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1224)] Find out how many people are actually maintaining, monitoring, and moderating the process. [00:24:02 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1442)] Justin asks what Snow anticipates on extensions that will be coming out that can’t make it to core and what is it that people want that they can’t get right now. [00:26:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1603)] Tzury wonders what the most obscure, unexpected use of Envoy was in production that Snow came across. [00:28:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1697)] Over the years that Snow has been at Envoy, he tells us how much of his time he spends writing new code versus reviewing others versus answering emails and file or responding to issues on GitHub. Justin shares some stats from Snow’s GitHub profile. [00:29:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1794)] Snow shares the “golden rules” when you review a code. [00:33:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/21?t=1984)] Find out where you can follow Snow online, and he gives a shout-out to the entire Envoy community! Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Curiefense Blog (https://www.curiefense.io/blog) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Snow Pettersen Twitter (https://twitter.com/snowypeas) Snow Pettersen GitHub (https://github.com/snowp) Lyft (https://www.lyft.com/) Envoy (https://www.envoyproxy.io/) Episode #17: “99.99999% Uptime with Anna Berenberg” (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:00] Snow Petterson:There was a period of time around this time when I started being a maintainer and a bit before when I was writing a lot of code, just because again, I think it aligned very well with what my company needed at the time. Now, over time I've just gotten review ownership over more and more codes and being brought into more and more like, hey, you know how this works, so can you chime in? So I've definitely like drifted away more towards the side of communication. It's always nice to get some code written every now and then, but there's so much other stuff that happens that I always have to be careful about making myself the blocker for the code landing. [00:42] Intro: Hello, and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the interface between open source and cloud native. We're super excited about our guest today, can't wait to introduce him. Our panelists today are Justin Dorfman and Tzury Bar Yochay, and they're going to have an awesome conversation. I really enjoyed listening to it and I really hope you enjoy this conversation. [01:06] Justin: Today we have Snow Peterson joining us from Lyft. He's on the Envoy Proxy Project as well, senior maintainer. Tzury, you're here, what's up? I thought you almost had a COVID, but you're good. [01:18] Tzury: Hey JD. Hey Snow. How are you guys? I'm all good. I'm fine. Thank God. [01:22] Justin: Okay. Thank God and Snow, how are you? Are you doing good? [01:26] Snow Petterson:I'm doing great. yes. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. [01:30] Justin: I really appreciate you coming back because for the audience that doesn't know the backstory, Snow was on like a month or two ago and the audio was so bad that we had to pull the plug. So we rescheduled and Snow, thank God said yes and that's where we're at. And we just want to basically go over what we talked about, but this time with a new recording platform and new equipment. So thank you again, Snow for really taking the time to do that. [02:04] Snow Petterson:Yes, no problem at all. [02:06] Justin: So cloud-native, you've done it at Square, you've done that Netflix, you've done it at Lyft. How has it changed over the years? [02:13] Snow Petterson:It's definitely matured a lot. I think a lot of the stuff we were doing early on at Square, particularly in the Envoy spaces, which is how I ended up in this whole space. It was rough around the edges and it took quite a while to ramp up on things and things didn't always work the way you wanted and I think now things have definitely matured. I guess it's been four or five years at this point. So more problems are solved, things are easier to do, but still a lot of challenges. [02:42] Justin: What's a major challenge that you've recently experienced, whether it's at Lyft or just maintaining the project? [02:49] Snow Petterson:I think one of the interesting [Inaudible 02:51] there's been this push towards like a [Inaudible 02:58]approach where a lot systems are relying more and more on these open source projects that run next to their services and Kubernetes and assessments as well and this has been like a trend in cloud-native where more and more problems have been sold via site cars, which on its own has cost like a bunch of new problems around like management of these site cars. And I think a lot of people who jumped on the site car bandwagon early on are now running into issues with managing all of these site cars with companies having 5, 10, 15 site cars running and their pods resulting in a whole set of new difficulties that people didn't realize would be this bad once when they were preaching about the value of site cars. [03:48] Justin: Is it like a performance issue or is it more of a security? What's the biggest headache that you're seeing with people using Envoy and site car to loading? [03:57] Snow Petterson:It's a release and rollout problem, that's a huge one where it's tricky to have a good release policy for site cars because you're kind of torn between two sides. One which you want to get new code out quickly and safely, but it's hard to do quickly if you have to roll your entire fleet, there's a lot of work to do this safely because you can try to roll your entire fleet, what kind of stats are you monitoring, what kinds of systems are in place to make sure that things don't go wrong and just the idea of having a gradual rollout of site cars can be very tricky because you end up having to often the build your own systems if you want something more granular than like per Kubernetes cluster, for example. So what you get per cluster, it's probably not too bad because you can just kind of do them one at a time, but taking down an entire cluster can be pretty bad as well, depending on your setup, not everybody runs with a bunch of redundant clusters. [05:01]Then you have this problem of once you start building automation for rolling the fleet to up-to-date site car, if you have a lot of site cars that need constant updating because you not only do you have like the open-source readily available site cars for you also building your own internal site cars, you end up having to roll your fleet quite a lot and it just creates a lot of churn and each one of these can cause a lot of issues. Sometimes you bundled multiple site car updates into the same update and then it gets very complicated because the person doing the actual rollout might not have any context around the site car being updated. And then the other way of doing it, where you don't roll the fleet, you put the onus on service owners to manage it whenever they update, they got a brand new set of site cars as its own set of problems where like, oh, you updated your app, you have seven new site cars, something's wrong. What do you do? [05:55] Justin: That's defeating the purpose of the whole microservices architecture.

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Dan Lorenc Software Engineering Lead, Google Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native and Open Source. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Dan Lorenc, who is a Staff Software Engineer and the lead for Google’s Open Source Security Team. Also, he founded projects like Minikube, Skaffold, TektonCD, and Sigstore. Dan will take us back to how he got into open source, Google, Cloud, and how he ended up being a lead for Google’s Open Source Security Team. We learn more about one of the bigger attacks that happened when Codecov Bash Unloader got compromised, what SGET is, what Google is doing to stop dependency nightmares, zombie dependencies, vectors, and why people should not sign Git Commits. Dan has written several blog posts and he talks more about some of them, and he shares some tips on the easiest way to get your security up if you are using cloud providers for working on open source projects. Download this episode now to find out much more from Dan! [00:01:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=113)] Dan tells us how he got into open source, Google, Cloud, and how he ended up being a lead for the Open Source Security Team. He tells us about his first open source project called Minikube. [00:05:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=307)] Justin brings up the safer curl URL pipe to bash which has been a topic on Hacker News. We learn more about the attack that happened earlier this year when Codecov bash installer got compromised and Dan explains more about that. Dan goes in-depth about what SGET is. [00:11:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=664)] Richard asks Dan if he thinks it’s important that people sign their Git commits and he talks about a blog post he wrote a couple of weeks ago about this. [00:12:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=724)] Dan explains how we can deal with security with stuff in the cloud and he tells us one of the biggest concerns he has right now. [00:15:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=912)] Find out more about the security leads across Google, and he tells us about an amazing paper that he recommends reading called “Reflections on Trusting Trust” by Ken Thompson. [00:17:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=1043)] Some people at the PSF got a $300,000 grant for supply chain security and Justin asks Dan if he had a role in that. Also, Justin mentions the reports going to Congress and the powerful XKCD graphic. [00:19:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=1197)] Learn what Google is doing to stop dependency nightmares, zombie dependencies, and vectors hitting that area. Also, Richard wonders if you can know as a cloud user what the dependencies actually are that you’re able to be exploited by. [00:26:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=1614)] Richard wonders how Dan stays sane, and how does he decide what to work on next. Also, Dan wrote a blog post called, “Procrastination Driven Development” and he describes how this all works in his brain. [00:31:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=1867)] One thing Justin wants to know is what repository or what package manager keeps Dan up at night. He wonders if there are any out there that need attention, or are they getting the attention that they need. [00:33:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/20?t=2010)] Find out where you can follow Dan on the internet and also some great tips to get your security up if you are using cloud providers at the moment for working on open source projects. Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Curiefense Blog (https://www.curiefense.io/blog) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Dan Lorenc Twitter (https://twitter.com/lorenc_dan) Dan Lorenc Website (https://dlorenc.medium.com/) “Codecov Bash Uploader Dev Tool Compromised in Supply Chain Hack” By Ryan Naraine (Security Week) (https://www.securityweek.com/codecov-bash-uploader-dev-tool-compromised-supply-chain-hack) SGET (https://sget.org/) “Should You Sign Git Commits?” By Dan Lorenc (https://dlorenc.medium.com/should-you-sign-git-commits-f068b07e1b1f) “Reflections on Trusting Trust” By Ken Thompson (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf) “Securing Open Source Software at the Source” By Ashwin Ramaswami (https://www.plaintextgroup.com/reports/securing-open-source-software-at-the-source) “Zombie Dependencies” By Dan Lorenc (https://dlorenc.medium.com/zombie-dependencies-77c34740a7a8) “The Dependency Jungle” By Dan Lorenc (https://medium.com/swlh/the-dependency-jungle-841bd1c7bce0) “Procrastination Driven Development” By Dan Lorenc (https://dlorenc.medium.com/procrastination-driven-development-56f0aa17c0d4) “Open Source is Under Attack-Dan Lorenc (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejcrUDaH1ZQ) Dependency - XKCD #2347 (https://twitter.com/jdorfman/status/1417605268708331524) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:01] Dan Lorenc: Open source is starting to become a worry because the tigers are starting to attack it. It was known about these attacks and supply chain attacks in general for decades, right? They go back to at least 1984 I think when Ken Thompson published this amazing paper called reflections on trusting trust, he pranked a bunch of his coworkers at Bell Labs by putting a backdoor into a compiler, that back door was so smart that it would insert backdoors into everything it compile. His coworkers were very smart though. So they know how to disassemble these binaries and [00:27 inaudible], but his backdoor was so good that it also inserted a backdoor into all the disassembling tools. So it would hide the back doors when his coworkers looked at it. So he really baffled everybody and kind of showed that unless, you know, the tools that built all of the tools that built the tools you built all the way down, it's hard to build up trust and software at all. [00:44] Richard: Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of cloud native and open source. Very excited to introduce our guest today. Before I introduce him, I want to make sure we get to the other panelists on this episode. I am, of course, Richard, Littauer the man without the plan. And then we have Justin Dorfman, the man with the Dorf, Justin, how you doing? [01:08] Justin: I'm doing great. I'm really excited to talk to Dan. [01:12] Richard: Me too, Dan, as Justin just said, is our guest. This is Dan Lorenc. He is calling today from Austin, Texas. Dan is a staff software engineer and the lead for Google's open source security team. He looks very secure where he is. I can see lots of, no he's just a normal guy in a t-shirt. So don't be overwhelmed by how awesome his title is. Dan, how are you doing today? [01:36] Dan Lorenc: I'm having a great day. Thanks for having me on. [01:38] Richard: Is it really hot in Austin right now? It's really hot everywhere else. [01:41] Dan Lorenc: Yeah, it's pretty warm. It's not as hot as it can get here in the summer, so don't want to brag too much, but yeah, we're warm. [01:48] Richard: Pretty good. Now you live in Austin, but you've been in the cloud space for eight years. Tell us how you got where you are. How did you get into open source and Google and cloud? [01:58] Dan Lorenc: So I've been at Google for about nine years now, in the cloud space for pretty much the entire time since before it was called cloud. My first shop at Google was on the app engine team when that was kind of the only product Google had in the cloud area. If you're not familiar with it. It was a kind of platform as a service product before any of those buzzwords existed. So cloud kind of popped up around it, and around me as I was working on kind of this developer tooling, developer experience area. I got more into open source probably right around when Kubernetes and containers started to pick up. I started playing around with Docker pre 1.0, I remember all the old glory days there and got into the Kubernetes ecosystem right when that started to take off. So it's been a fun ride since. [02:38] Richard: So how do you end up being a lead for the open source security team? If you're first in a space, someone has to hire you or something, right? So like how did that happen? [02:48] Dan Lorenc: Yeah. So in the open source, in the supply chain security area, and it was a case of just kind of being really worried about it before anybody else was, I guess. And actually, yeah, that kind of connects back to how I got into open source. When I started at google, I was doing some work on our cloud platform and stuff, but from the inside and Google’s got a pretty different development process than a lot of other companies. Everything's in a big mono repo. And you've probably heard some stories about that. When you step outside of that mono repo and start building things, open source and all the tooling disappears. You're not using these same internal build systems and everything. And it was kind

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Prajakta Joshi Group Product Manager, Edge Cloud for Enterprise and Telecom Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Today we have as our guest, Prajakta Joshi, who is a Group Product Manager at Google driving Edge Cloud for Enterprise and Telecom. She joined Google in 2015, has been working with Tzury since 2016, and really knows all about the history of Cloud Native and how it really started. Prajakta tells us about her background and how she ended up in the Edge Cloud space. We also find out where open source fits in, revenue streams going towards the open source ecosystem to make it more sustainable and more useful to Enterprise and Telco users, and more on the evolution of server less gRPC service mesh. We also hear Tzury’s really interesting idea of the future Cloud, and Prajakta shares her perspective on how she handles the good and the bad and where the focus should be. Download this episode now to learn much more! [00:02:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=130)] Prajakta tells us about her background and how she keyed into Telcos. [00:04:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=267)] We learn more about the Edge Cloud product, how Prajakta ended up there, and how she manages consistency. [00:10:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=637)] Prajakta mentions Kubernetes and Richard asks where open source fits in. [00:15:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=912)] Richard asks Prajakta if she has any thoughts about revenue streams going towards the open source ecosystem and how that would work. [00:20:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=1233)] Prajakta explains more about how we have revenue streams going from Enterprise and Telcos back into the open source projects to make the entire system more sustainable and ultimately more useful to Enterprise and Telco users. [00:25:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=1527)] Tzury wonders instead of having so much manual labor, he thinks the real future Cloud would be fully automated cloud, bottom up from the infrastructure level itself and Prajakta tells us what she thinks about this. [00:28:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=1711)] Prajakta elaborates more on the evolution of server less gRPC service mesh. [00:34:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=2091)] Tzury wonders what the oldest service is in Google that Prajakta knows of that is still running the same way it was running at the beginning, and it was not migrated to any fancy schmancy new tech that she can share with us. [00:38:06 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=2286)] Find out about the two parts of service mesh and what the traffic director does. [00:39:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=2348)] Tzury asks how Prajakta how it feels being the greatest on one end and still the underdog on another. Also, how does she deal with this frustration or excitement and affect her day to day. [00:44:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/19?t=2667)] Find out where you can follow Prajakta on the web. Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Curiefense Blog (https://www.curiefense.io/blog) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Prajakta Joshi Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/prajaktasjoshi/) Prajakta Joshi Twitter (https://twitter.com/prajaktaplus) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:00] Justin: Hey, it's Justin co-host of this podcast. We just released Curiefence version 1.4, which includes support for NGINX. It has UI improvements, security improvements, and much, much more. So just go to curiefence.io/blog to see what else we improved. Now enjoy the show. [00:21] Prajakta:  When I started off as well. Like a lot of the focus was on, okay, what's the next cool tech we built. And slowly as you start building it, you start realizing like for example, service mesh, it doesn't solve all problems for customers. You really need to bring other bits and pieces and you need to keep evolving these technologies. And I think the thing, the pivot that I made was okay, let's not start from the tech. Let's start from the problem we are trying to solve, or the new experience we are trying to deliver or whatever business value you're trying to build and then build backwards, or integrate the stuff that exists. I think that is sort of the thing nobody really talks about. [00:58] Richard: I love that perspective. That's brilliant, everyone that is Prajakta Joshi. She has joined us today from Google and she is so on top of her game that she immediately launched into one of the most insightful things we've had on this podcast. So welcome to the Committing to Cloud Native Podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about the confluence of cloud native and open source, how we get them together, how we build great things. Today, I'm joined by Justin Dorfman as usual Tzury Bar Yochay . Hi, as usual. Thank you so much for joining us. Both of you, other hosts. I'm Richard Littauer and we have our guest today is Prajakta Joshi. Prajakta Joshi is a group product manager at Google, driving edge cloud for enterprise and telecomm. She joined Google in 2015. Been working with Tzury since around 2016, and really knows all about the history of cloud native and how it really started. So Prajakta, you were just saying that what's happened already is that we just start building stuff, but we're not stepping back and saying, okay, who we're building this up for? How can we solve the problem? And what is the problem in the first place? Can you expound a bit more about your background? Because I know that you don't just think in terms of business needs and in terms of like the community, but you also are actually really keyed into telcos. Can explain how that happened? [02:24] Prajakta: So a little bit about my background, I started off as an engineer. At the time, you know, this was in the early two-thousands, the problems for point problems, if you will, where somebody has an application and they need to scale it up because they have this massive growth of users. And at the time it was just load balancing technology. So I started working on that and then along the way, as different customer problems started cropping up, there was technology like CDN that I built out and perimeter based security and so on and so forth. And then slowly what happened was customer workloads themselves stop being in a data center or in a single place. And they started proliferating and appearing wherever they showed. For example, somebody could not migrate all at once to cloud and they were sitting on premises and slowly the kind of technology that you needed to solve these problems got more and more complex. [03:18] You needed multiple pieces to go solve a customer problem. And then, you know, often like you brought up the case of telcos. For cloud providers, our first set of stakeholders that we solve for enterprises like your retailers and your financial institutions and healthcare and so on and so forth. In the last few years, you've seen a lot more interest of telcos to go adopt those same cloud native paradigms. So, which is where the telcos came in the mix. And I think one of the best things about cloud native is that it is breaking down very traditional silos that have existed, say between enterprise and cloud or how we solve for enterprises versus how we solve for telcos. And a lot of what I'm building or doing right now is about building common technology that can solve for each of these stakeholders in a consistent way. At the same time, we have to meet them where they are. So not all traffic of telcos is going to be HTTP HTTPS, and we have to build for that, just as an example. It has been an evolution. Even on my part, I went from building products to actually starting with the solution and building products backwards. And I'm still on the journey of learning how to do that as well. [04:27] Richard: So I'm new to the cloud native space. And so I'm not entirely sure what edge cloud is in particular. Can you describe what that product is and how you ended up there? [04:38] Prajakta: Let's talk a little bit about edge. When you say edge different people will probably have a different version of what edge is and a really simple way to think of edge is, it's everywhere. It's like we have this massive global distributed edge. And so the edge, if you're on premises in your data center, that's an edge. If you really think of it that way, or if you're actually sitting in a retail store, or if you're even, even when you have a cell phone, the device actually could be an edge. And then obviously you've got other edges. Like we have [05:08 our pops], the telcos have their network edge. We have third-party providers who have their edges. So I think very simply when we say edge cloud in Google cloud, what we really mean is, you know, you bring your workloads to the cloud. You need to have similar constr

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. This episode is a little different than others because we decided after publishing seventeen episodes this year, we want to take a trip down memory lane and look back at our most popular ones. Today, you will hear clips from our “Top Five” episodes which include the following guests, Kelsey Hightower, Les Jackson, Sergio Méndez, Chris Ferreira, and Richard Li. Sit back, relax, and enjoy! Oh, and go ahead and download this episode now! [00:01:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/18?t=65)] We start with Episode #8 which was our most popular downloaded episode. Our guest was Kelsey Hightower, who is Principal Engineer and Principal Staff Advocate at Google in the Google Cloud Platform Division. We learn how he ended up in the Cloud Native space, joining Google, and his job offer at NASA. Kelsey shares an abundance of information and we find out the amazing story behind “No Code.” [00:04:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/18?t=298)] Our next top episode was Episode #9 with Les Jackson, who is Developer Advocate at Marketplacer. Les explains his creative process and why he was interested in using Envoy to begin with to make microservices. We also hear his cool experience with writing his book, The Complete ASP.NET Core 3 API Tutorial, which he self-published versus going with a publisher. [00:09:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/18?t=581)] Episode #4 brought us a super fun guest, Sergio Méndez, who is an SRE, Professor, and CNCF Ambassador to Guatemala, as well as the organizer of the Cloud Native Guatemala Community Group and is working to get students and people from Central America involved into the CNCF ecosystem. Sergio is a “Linkerd Hero” and he is working on two contributions for Curiefense, which are Linkerd and Rancher, which we learn more about. [00:14:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/18?t=866)] Kubernetes is the topic of Episode #10, and we brought in Chris Ferreira, who is the Principal Engineer and Architect for the WebEx Platform at Cisco. Chris shares how he started out in culinary school and ended up in the IT world, working in startups on the front end and the back end, working for Microsoft, and now Cisco. He tells us about getting introduced into Kubernetes and becoming a code contributor to Istio in a pretty big way. [00:20:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/18?t=1233)] We end with Episode #7, with our guest Richard Li, who is the Co-Founder and CEO of Ambassador Labs, which builds popular open source tools for Kubernetes. We learn about the “Golden Rules” to building a successful open source company or project, and things you must do from the very beginning to keep the project interesting to the community and to get it out and reach out to those achievements. Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Committing To Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 8-Learning in Public with Kelsey Hightower (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8) Kelsey Hightower Twitter (https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Committing To Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 9-Microservices are Interesting with Les Jackson (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9) Les Jackson Twitter (https://twitter.com/binarythistle?lang=en) The Complete ASP.NET Core 3 API Tutorial: Hands-On Building, Testing, and Deploying by Les Jackson (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-ASP-NET-Core-Tutorial-Hands-dp-1484262549/dp/1484262549/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=) Committing To Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 4-Sergio Méndez: SRE, Professor & CNCF Ambassador to Guatemala (https://podcast.curiefense.io/4) Sergio Méndez Twitter (https://twitter.com/sergioarmgpl) Committing To Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 10-Kubernetes, (Almost) Love at First Sight with Chris Ferreira (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10) Chris Ferreira Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chferrei) Committing To Cloud Native Podcast-Episode 7-Building a Business Around Popular Open Source Tools for Kubernetes with Richard Li (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7) Richard Li Twitter (https://twitter.com/rdli) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guests: Chris Ferreira, Kelsey Hightower, Les Jackson, Richard Li, and Sergio Méndez.

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Anna Berenberg Google Cloud Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Justin has some shirts and stickers that he wants to give away to fans of this show, so listen right now to find out how to get some! Today, we have a super exciting guest, Anna Berenberg, who is a Distinguished Engineer at Google. Anna goes in depth about her position at Google and what she does there. She tells us about the “Five nines” applications, how proxies are used on a day-to-day cloud basis at Google, and how security and reliability come together with what they’ve done at Google for Envoy. Also, Anna explains how listening and being attentive to people and customers who contribute to open source plays an important role. Download this episode now to learn so much more from Anna! [00:02:15 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=135)] Anna tells us what she does as a Distinguished Engineer, what her specialty is, and what Uber TL means. [00:03:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=210)] Richard reads some things from Anna’s Bio and she describes in depth what it all means. [00:05:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=335)] Justin asks if Google Search ever goes down because he’s never seen it down, and it seems very critical that it’s always up. Anna tells us all about the “Five nines" applications and she mentions a paper that was recently published called, “Deployment Archetypes for Cloud Applications.” [00:09:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=575)] Anna explains how she thinks about her role and what her goal is. [00:11:50 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=710)] Richard wonders how proxies are used on a day-to-day cloud basis at Google. [00:13:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=821)] Anna explains what proxyless means and how it works. She mentions a single general-purpose RPC infrastructure called Stubby that Google uses. [00:19:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1160)] Tzury asks Anna how we can make software more secure, especially critical pieces of actually handling infrastructure, and Anna tells us how security and reliability come together and what they’ve done at Google for Envoy. [00:23:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1421)] Tzury wonders what kind of things Anna is doing within Google or outside of Google, involving open source related products to make the entry point easier for newcomers and developers who come from different platforms and different technologies to adopt new technologies. [00:26:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1603)] Speaking of extensions and platforms, Justin asks Anna when Google is going to adopt Curiefense. ☺ [00:29:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1757)] Richard asks Anna how do they incentivize clients, communities, coders, developers, projects, and products like Curiefense to get involved in the planning stage, and what are her teams doing to make sure the needs of Curiefense and other projects, like our listeners may have, are taken into account at a very high level. [00:32:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1941)] Find out where you can follow Anna online. Quotes [00:03:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=235)] “So, we had our own proprietary load balancing proxies and control planes.” [00:04:01 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=241)] “And then a time came when we realized that for Google Cloud to achieve its principle, Google Cloud considered itself to be Open Cloud where we embrace open source technologies, and we basically essentially can think about cloud without borders.” [00:04:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=273)] “And at the same time, Lyft came out with this new, brand new proxy called Envoy Proxy, which had an amazing architecture.” [00:05:42 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=342)] “Well, this is actually another passion of mine is a design of Five nines applications.” [00:11:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=664)] “People should be thinking about policies and not the infrastructure that allows them to propagate and allows them to enforce.” [00:12:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=733)] “So think about it as like a gateway, the place where I trust the mains meet together.” [00:14:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=845)] “And what we developed actually, a service mesh before service meshes were cool.” [00:15:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=909)] “So when I looked at Cloud and how important gRPC is to cloud because it allows for much better productivity and velocity of cloud developers when using Protobuf’s and how well it feeds with the Kubernetes as modernization.” [00:15:50 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=950)] “We actually reuse the same API’s that we are using for Envoy.” [00:16:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1006)] “So, if you think about Gmail or something like this, some big application, or customers that big, that if you put proxy in each home, and you have hundreds of thousands of microservices, the daily job will be restarting proxies.” [00:27:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1631)] “An interesting conversation to have is how Envoy as a platform can allow co-existence of a functionality, in some cases could be competing, in some cases complimentary.” [00:30:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/17?t=1800)] “Well, we’re always listening. I think listening is under appreciated activity and it’s important to listen and important this time, not a single requirement but a collection of requirements.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) podcast@curiefense.io (mailto:podcast@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury) Anna Berenberg Twitter (https://twitter.com/kniga) Anna Berenberg Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaberenberg/) “Deployment Archetypes for Cloud Applications” by Anna Berenberg, Brad Calder (https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.00560) gRPC (https://grpc.io/) “gRPC Motivation and Design Principles” By Louis Ryan (Blog post) (https://grpc.io/blog/principles/) Envoy (https://www.envoyproxy.io/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript Justin Dorfman 00:00 Hi! it's Justin cohosts of this podcast, we got some new shirts and stickers and we really want to give them away to fans of the show. All we ask is you share one of your favorite episodes on Twitter and DM the link to at Cariefence and if you prefer email drop a line to podcast @curiefence.io. Thanks and I really hope you enjoy the show. Anna Berenberg 00:25 It's actually very interesting point about core versus extensions. Which brings us back to the question of reliability. The reason that the core is not kept figure limited is to ensure stability, reliability and security of the core and so let's say Google doesn't need all this extensions, then it can compile them out. It doesn't compile them in as core, and then they can guarantee quality. Now everybody needs extension [phonetic 00:56] right because Envoy is not just a proxy to platform. Richard Littauer 01:02 Hello, and welcome to "Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the consequences of open source and cloud native technology. We have a very exciting guest today from Google. But before I get around to introducing her, I want to make sure that the listeners know about the panelists, because our voices are going to come up and it's nice to know who we are. So I'm Richard Littower [phonetic 01:25]. I'm your host today with me is my co-panelists, Justin Dorfman. Justin, how are you? Justin Dorfman 01:31 I'm great, Richard, how are you? Richard Littauer 01:33 Always good and my other co-panelists, Tzury, how are you doing? Tzury Bar Yochay 01:38 I am great, Richard. How are you today? Richard Littauer 01:41 Also, still good, hasn't changed in the last 10 seconds. Thanks for asking. All right. Getting to our guest today. Our guest is a Distinguished Engineer at Google, who when I asked her to describe in more detail what that means use a lot of words that I would like you all to hear. So I will ask her soon. Again, we have Anna Baron Berg today calling from San Francisco. Anna, how are you doing? Anna Berenberg 02:04 I'm great. How are you all? Richard Littauer 02:06 I think we're all still good. Okay. All right. So when I asked you, how else I might introduce you, you said a lot of things about load balancing and so on. What is it that you do as a Distinguished Engineer? What is your specialty? Anna Berenberg 02:20 I am Uber TL for load balancing products and technologies at Google, I work to make sure that load balancing works for both Google products as well as Google Cloud product and I've been at Google for 15 years doing just that. Richard Littauer 02:39 So I have a silly question. 15 years is awesome, by the way, wow, I'm unfamiliar with the term Uber TL and that may just be me. But in cases, any of our listeners, can you describe what Uber TL means? Anna Berenberg 02:49 Well, there are very useful people as engineers who implement code, and then you have TLs, who actually guide them to build and design services and systems and then when the scope becomes too big for one T

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guests Tom Kerkhove Zbynek Roubalik Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. We are super happy to have two guests with us today, Zbynek Roubalik, a Senior Software Engineer at Red Hat, and Tom Kerkhove, Azure Architect at Codit. Also, Zbynek and Tom are both Maintainers for KEDA. They are here to tell us more about KEDA, why it’s so cool, what they do as Maintainers for it, their challenges, and personal goals they have with helping them become better Cloud Native Engineers. There is a discussion about how it’s not just about code, but all the other pieces that really make a project, and knowing how to manage everything in between. Go ahead and download this episode to hear much more! [00:02:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=120)] We start with finding out what KEDA is, how long it’s been around, and how large the open source community is. [00:04:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=260)] Justin wonders if Tom and Zbynek were there from the beginning of the sandbox onboarding or if they came after. [00:06:32 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=392)] Tom tells us about doing case studies they’ve done for Alibaba Cloud and the CNCF blog. [00:08:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=515)] Richard asks Tom and Zbynek why this project and what is so cool about KEDA compared to anything else in the Cloud Native space, and they tell us what sort of stuff they do as Maintainers for KEDA. [00:11:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=707)] Justin brings up that he saw “Merch” in their store, and he wonders how Tom and Zbynek are fulfilling that and if they use a service. [00:15:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=936)] Richard wonders about Tom and Zbynek getting paid to do this work, and Tom fills us in. [00:16:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=993)] Tom and Zbynek talk about the major challenges that they’re facing, which include “commit and run.” [00:24:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1440)] Richard asks Tom and Zbynek to share their personal goals for being with this project, where do they want to be in five years, and how is KEDA helping you become a better Cloud Native Engineer. [00:27:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1672)] Richard mentions Tom’s website you should check out and he asks him if people could only read one of his blog posts which one would it be. [00:30:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1828)] The guys all discuss how it’s not just about the code, but about all those other pieces that really make the project and knowing how to manage everything in between. [00:33:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1989)] Find out where you can follow Zbynek and Tom online. [00:33:45 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=2025)] We end with Justin asking Tom and Zbynek who they would like to thank at the CNCF or anyone in the Cloud Native community. Quotes [00:02:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=125)] It’s basically aiming to make application autoscaling that simple on Kubernetes because it isn’t. So, we try to make it super simple for you so you can focus on your application and not the scaling internals of Kubernetes.” [00:05:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=307)] “Funnily enough, that’s a very hard piece of maintaining open source, knowing who is using it because you cannot measure it in any way.” [00:24:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1469)] “By not having to worry about how Kubernetes scales.” [00:24:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1477)] “I bluntly set this one. We would present the KEDA for the incubation graduation. I want this to be the standard application autoscaler so that everybody uses the same thing, that you don’t have to worry about it, and we just handle everything for you, frankly.” [00:24:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1486)] “I like the simplicity because I like when things are from the user perspective because usually, we are developers, engineers, and we are focusing just on the codes, technical side.” [00:25:49 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1549)] “And now I’m sometimes exaggerating, but they still understand how to just scale this freaking thing, while it’s just the helm install away and you’re good to go.” [00:26:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1590)] “That’s also a good example because we are working on a new reference case with CAST AI and they basically use KEDA to make Kubernetes cost efficient and make sure that we don’t waste electricity and all this kind of stuff and make the environment a better place just by optimizing your workloads.” [00:28:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1738)] “And that’s why for my projects I always use the mantra which is, It’s just a pull request away.” [00:29:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1788)] “There’s so many things you need to do which is not code, it’s ridiculous.” [00:30:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1854)] “I haven’t written a single letter of code for KEDA. I’m doing all the other things.” [00:31:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1901)] “I would like to say that this is super important, like not just doing the code as mentioned, but all the stuff around, it is very important to have like active project and the health, because if you don’t have the healthy environment around, the project was stale basically.” [00:31:56 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=1916)] “I fully agree on one the typical things that I see is you go to a project and you look for documentation. If you’re lucky you find documentation, then you ask, do you have any documentation.” [00:34:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/16?t=2049)] “So, Chris Aniszczyk, the CTO of CNCF, because although he’s super busy, he’s always supporting us definitely. The fact that he’s helping KEDA from the early days when we were so small project and he believed in us from the start.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) jdorfman@curiefense.io (mailto:jdorfman@curiefense.io) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?lang=en) Tom Kerkhove Twitter (https://twitter.com/TomKerkhove) Tom Kerkhove Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomkerkhove/) Tom Kerkhove Website (https://blog.tomkerkhove.be/) Zbynek Roubalik Twitter (https://twitter.com/zroubalik) Zbynek Roubalik Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/zbynek-roubalik/) KEDA (https://keda.sh/) Codit (https://www.codit.eu/en/) Red Hat (https://www.redhat.com/en) Committing to Cloud Native Podcast-“How to manage a successful CNCF project” with William Morgan of Linkerd-Episode 5 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/5) Sticker Mule (https://www.stickermule.com/) CAST AI (https://cast.ai/) Chris Aniszczyk Twitter (https://twitter.com/cra?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Tom [00:01]: We have some case studies on the blog, for example, Alibaba Cloud. We did one even for the CNCF blog, but I never taught I would say this about myself, but I'm really one of the PMs for this project. And I don't mean this badly to a PM, but I never saw myself as a PM, but that's just all I do reach out to people. Hey, cool stuff. Can we do something together? Because that really helps people convince that the project is used. People rely on them. Certainly, if you see big names, if they use it, then we probably should use it as well. It must be good. And that really helps. In terms of the CNCF incubation, luckily there end users can talk off the record. So we have some of the people with the big companies that we cannot list that are apart of it. Still you want to talk to your friends and colleagues about the ones. And obviously there are still ones that we do not know about because it's free in open-source Richard [01:00]: Hello and welcome to committing to cloud-native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of cloud-native and open source. Super excited to talk about our guests today and to talk with them even cause that's what we do here on the Committed To Cloud Native podcast, besides me, Richard Littauer. We also have Justin Dorfman as a panelist. Justin, how you doing? Justin [01:20]: I'm doing great. How are you? Richard [01:22]: I'm doing excellent. Happy to be here talking with two guests today. One of them is calling from my favorite city in the Czech Republic from Bruno and we have Zbynek [name], which I probably totally butchered his name for which I apologize sincerely. I do not speak Czech. I am so sorry. We also have Tom Kerkhove. Zbynek is joining us today as a senior software engineer from Red Hat, whereas Tom is joining us as the Azure architect at Coded. Both of them together are maintainers for KEDA, capital letters please. What is KEDA? Which one of you wants to go first? Tom [02:05]: Well, I can get started. It's basically aiming to make application auto-scaling that simple on Kubernetes because it isn't. So we try to make it super simple for you. So you can focus on your application and auto scaling internals of Kubernetes. Richard [02:22]: I thought Kubernetes wasn't na

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Avi Press Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. We are super excited to have as our guest today, Avi Press, Co-Founder and CEO of Scarf. We learn all about Scarf, how it works, and what it has to do with Cloud Native. Also, Avi tells us about the newest product, The Scarf Gateway, how Linkerd and Rocket.Chat are using it, and a new longer-term project they are working on called Nomia. Avi shares what he’s most excited about for Scarf in the future, his mission for Scarf, resources Scarf is providing to users, and he tells us more about why they are focusing more on the tooling right now and not the monetization. Download this episode now to find out more from Avi! [00:01:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=70)] Avi tells us what Scarf is, how it works, and what it has to do with Cloud Native. [00:02:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=148)] We learn how Linkerd is using the new product, Scarf Gateway, and what they’re doing. [00:05:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=323)] Justin asks if there’s a company or something they do at Scarf, that tracks uptime of different container rate registries. Avi explains one of things they are working on with the Gateway. [00:06:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=371)] Avi talks about their infrastructure and CloudStack. [00:07:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=463)] AWS billed Scarf for $482 for the “support” needed to fix their original monthly bill and Avi explains. [00:09:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=565)] Since Scarf is the middle layer for interfacing with other large cloud providers that gives more data to the users, Richard wonders why the cloud providers are working with Avi and why doesn’t AWS just block all of their ports and requests. [00:11:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=711)] Richard is curious to know Avi’s perspective on the Legion aspect and wonders how Avi helps show Google is using his product and how does he connect people to people at Google without violating GDPR or other massive privacy concerns. [00:14:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=865)] If you’re a developer who’s running a Cloud Native project, find out how easy it is to set up the process to start using Scarf. Justin mentions some of Scarf’s users and Avi talks about Rocket.Chat using the Gateway. [00:16:38 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=998)] Avi fills us in on a new longer-term project they are working on called Nomia. [00:18:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1134)] Avi tells us how they found Shea and all about his vision when he came to Scarf. [00:21:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1319)] Besides Nomia, Avi shares what he’s most excited about for Scarf in the future and Justin asks him how his friend Havi Hoffman is doing. [00:25:32 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1532)] Avi talks about how they’re focusing on the growth of their tooling right now, not the monetization. [00:26:24 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1584)] Justin asks Avi to describe his company in five words, or more, his mission, and what it would be like. [00:28:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1707)] Richard asks what Avi is doing to ensure that he’s not myopically focused on helping developers only focus on what companies that they can get something out of, how is he making sure that the tools he builds empower disempowered communities of developers and people of color and women, and what is he doing to make sure that these users are also being cared for and are a priority in what he’s doing. [00:29:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1775)] Avi tells us what he’s doing to listen to other voices in how he develops these dev tools. He also tells us what resources Scarf is providing to users. [00:34:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=2054)] Find out where you can follow Avi online. Quotes [00:10:03 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=603)] “And so in that way, we’re basically an element of letting projects and companies choose the best registry.” [00:10:44 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=644)] “And so by being an agent of shifting some of that leverage back to the project owners we are creating a space where the best registry should win and not the registry that’s just most established should continue to win.” [00:18:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1101)] “And so our goals for Nomia is that by offering a very generic framework and ecosystem around resource management, we can help maintainers with even more information about how their dependencies that they maintain the distributor getting used kind of regardless of how and where and from what registries, etc.” [00:19:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1150)] “Can Scarf help me monetize it and like figure out how I can make a sustainable business out of Nomia?” [00:22:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1327)] “I think in the long run what I’m really excited about for Scarf’s future is how we can really help the businesses behind a lot of these Cloud Native projects and help them be more successful.” [00:23:49 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1429)] “And I think that the secret to that success is really not anything that I’m doing, but really just the problem we’re working on and trying to solve these problems in open source of how we share data with each other and how that can be a driving force for change and improvement in the Open Source and Cloud Native spaces is something that resonates with a lot of people.” [00:25:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1500)] “You can never really put enough effort into the docs.” [00:25:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1536)] “We’re really focusing right now on the growth of our tooling.” [00:26:49 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1609)] “We want to empower open source developers to have sustainable businesses and projects.” [00:31:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/15?t=1865)] “And so, I think that’s what I would point to that not everything that we try is going to be popular or stick, and what we do is we just listen, and we adapt, and that’s how documentation insights came to be.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) SustainOSS Podcast-Avi Press and Scarf-Episode 70 (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/70) Avi Press Website (https://avi.press/) Avi Press Twitter (https://twitter.com/avi_press?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Avi Press Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/avi-press-4437a356) Avi Press-GitHub (https://github.com/aviaviavi) Scarf (https://about.scarf.sh/) Scarf Blog (https://about.scarf.sh/blog-2) The Scarf Gateway (https://about.scarf.sh/scarf-gateway) The New Stack-“Scarf Takes Aim at Package Manager Lock-In with Scarf Gateway.” (https://thenewstack.io/scarf-takes-aim-at-package-manager-lock-in-with-scarf-gateway/) Rocket.Chat (https://rocket.chat/) “Announcing Nomia and the Scarf Environment Manager,” Scarf Blog by Shea Levy (https://about.scarf.sh/post/announcing-nomia-and-the-scarf-environment-manager) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Avi [00:00]: A lot of projects will even go publish containers to multiple places. And it's good to do that because registry sometimes go down and depending on what you're pushing out there, like that could be a runtime dependency that might may or may not be depending on kind of the nature of how people run their containers, but being robust to that and being able to actually understand usage across those registries and being able to switch what you need to, is something that ultimately just gives maintainers more control and more ownership of our software. Richard [00:31]: Hello, and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of open source and cloud native technology. Super excited to have a guest on today. Justin Dorfman and I, Justin is the other panelists, have already talked to Avi Press before on another podcast called Sustain, about his amazing company. Avi is the co-founder and CEO of Scarf spelled like scarfing something down or like the fancy neck wear, which he is unfortunately not wearing today is open department. Avi, how are you doing? Avi [01:07]: I'm doing well, how are you? Richard [01:09]: Doing great. Could you give us like a two minute pitch for what Scarf is and how it works? Avi [01:14]: Yeah. So Scarf as a company, that's all about trying to help open source developers and projects and get better understanding of how their software is being used and to connect with their commercial users. We're all about trying to help open source developers support themselves and helping businesses leverage open source dependencies as effectively as possible. And just connecting the two sides of that. Richard [01:35]: What does this have to do with cloud native? Avi [01:36]: The initial product that we are working really hard on right now is a very cloud native focused technology, where

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Jérôme Petazzoni Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Our amazing guest today is Jérôme Petazzoni, Founder of Tiny Shell Script, LLC, a long-time operator in the Cloud Native space, and was part of the team that built, scaled, and operated dotCloud PaaS before that company became Docker. We learn how Jérôme became involved in Docker, his involvement in Helm, how he loves teaching complicated things to people because he finds it a motivating challenge, and how he has a ReadMe driven development. Jérôme tells us more about what his company Tiny Shell Script does, what he’s doing with Cloud Native Islamabad, and if that’s not enough, he tells us more about how a Launchpad became his travel instrument, and how he can play the theme of Zelda with a Launchpad, Raspberry Pi, and 3000 lines of Python. Download this episode to find out much more from Jérôme! [00:01:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=93)] Jérôme fills us in how he got involved in Docker, which was dotCloud PaaS when he started, how he ended up doing the job he did there, and what parts of the code base of Docker he’s touched. [00:09:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=561)] Justin wonders how many talks Jérôme has given in his career at Docker. [00:13:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=815)] Justin asks Jérôme if he feels that Docker paved that path to the Cloud Native space or if he thinks there’s more to it. [00:14:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=898)] Richard wonders where Jérôme sees the role of the developer evangelist of people like him, who accidently randomly do all of this marketing and work in building open source communities in the Cloud Native space. [00:17:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1068)] We find out how Jérôme is a massive proponent of good documentation. [00:19:42 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1182)] Learn about Jérôme’s involvement in Helm. [00:22:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1373)] Jérôme tells us what Tiny Shell Script, LLC does. [00:24:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1492)] Justin wonders what made Jérôme just go and do his own thing. [00:29:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1791)] Richard asks if Jérôme trains his developers in French as well, and Tzury asks him if he can come do training at Reblaze. [00:31:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1897)] Since Jérôme has done a lot of work elsewhere, Richard is curious in what’s going on with Cloud Native Islamabad. [00:33:18 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1998)] Jerome tells us about his launchpad that became his travel instrument and making music. [00:35:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=2155)] Justin asks Jérôme if Kubernetes be what it is today without Docker, and Justin says no and wonder if he agrees. [00:37:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=2232)] Find out where you can follow Jérôme online. Quotes [00:15:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=917)] “And I would even say for any company who’s going to interact with developers because in a way we have a lower attention span.” [00:15:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=929)] “So, you know if I have five different containers storage products to choose from in ten minutes, basically I expect all of them to give me a two-minute video that’s going to explain why they’re the best solution.” [00:18:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1093)] “Now in a way, I think it may be Lauri Apple who gave me this notion of maybe she doesn’t call it like that, but ReadMe driven development in a way.” [00:18:34 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1114)] “Kind of start with the ReadMe because that’s how you’re going to explain to the world what that is and how it works and how folks should get started.” [00:21:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1303)] “Sometimes I say, maybe I stole that from someone, that is kind of the missing package manager for Kubernetes.” [00:25:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1511)] “At some point in 2015 when I was kind of questioning myself and what I wanted to do, I went around an interviewed at a few places and that was really interesting and I totally recommend to do that once in a while because it helps to kind of ground your expectations and everything.” [00:26:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=1570)] “That was part of their greatest course, but I don’t remember a single thing about them.” [00:34:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=2083)] “Until at some point again, I’m going to say accidentally stumbled upon the right combination while I realized I could very easily process media messages with that thing.” [00:36:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/14?t=2169)] “It’s one of these things where you need a “what if machine.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Jérôme Petazzoni Twitter (https://twitter.com/jpetazzo) Jérôme Petazzoni Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpetazzo) Jérôme Petazzoni Website (http://jpetazzo.github.io/) Tiny Shell Script, LLC (https://tinyshellscript.com/) Docker (https://www.docker.com/) Helm (https://helm.sh/) Cloud Native Islamabad (https://community.cncf.io/islamabad/) Cloud Native Islamabad Twitter (https://twitter.com/CloudIslamabad?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) FluidSynth (https://www.fluidsynth.org/) Container Training with Jérôme Petazzoni (https://container.training/) Zelda with a Launchpad, a Raspberry Pi, and 3000 lines of Python- Jérôme Petazzoni-YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzBBoJhk1tY) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Jérôme [00:01]: When I joined dotCloud, I was joining with a strong infrastructure background. I knew how to run servers and whisper in their ears when things weren't going well. And I did that for maybe two, three years, moving from managing our EC2 Fleet. Then being part of the big engineering mutation, then managing a small team of SREs and then suddenly Docker happened. Richard [00:28 ]: Hello, and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native. The podcast where we talk about the confluence of cloud native and open source. We have an amazing guest on today. Before we get around to introducing him. I want to introduce the other panelists. So we have Richard Littauer hello, everyone, that guy. And then we have Justin Dorfman. Justin, how are you? Justin [00:47]: I'm great, Richard. I'm just so glad you're back. Never leave again. Richard [00:51]: I'll try not to. And Tzury Bar Yochay. Tzury [00:55]: How are you today? Richard [00:56]: And our guest today is Jérôme Petazzoni. Jérôme is calling today from Berlin. Jérôme, how are you? Jérôme [01:03]: That's great. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm doing well today. I just got my first [01:08 inaudible] actually this afternoon. So looking forward to positive things in the future. Richard [01:14]: Well, that is awesome. Welcome. Jérôme is the founder of Tiny Shell script, LLC. He's been a long time operator in the cloud native space. He was part of the team that built scaled and operated dotCloud Paas and before the company became Docker. So you've been around forever. How did you get involved with that company? Jérôme [01:36]: How did I get involved with a Docker and more specifically dotCloud since it was not called Docker when I joined. Well, I happened to coincidentally work as a soldier of fortune, a long time ago with another consultant named Solomon Hikes. We both worked for the same company back in France, and I don't it was maybe 2005 ish, something like that. And then we stayed in touch. He was starting to do this container thing. And I had this hosting company and he was looking for servers to host his [02:12 weird chritam] channels to do his container things because back then that was complicated. [02:18]: And on the other hand, I had servers and I was looking for things to run on, said servers. So that was a good match. So basically every around six months we would get together and talk about containers and hack on things. And until eventually at some point in the summer of 2010, I was in Paris and I got a phone call like, "Hey, this is Solomon, long story short, we just raised some money after YC and we are trying to build a team. Would you like to work in California? And I was like, yeah, sure. Sign me up. And six months later, I was in a big plane on my way to San Francisco. And that's how it started. Richard [02:57]: So many questions. So how did you end up, where were you in this role? How did you start? Where did you segue to? I know that you've given tons and tons of talks and that you're really big on teaching other people how to scale stuff, but you're also a coder in your own right. So like what parts of the code base of Docker have you touched? Jérôme [03:12]: So initially when I joined dotCloud, I was joining with a strong infrastructure background. I knew how to run servers and whisper in their ears when things weren't going we

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Alexis Richardson Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. We are super excited to have as our guest, Alexis Richardson, who is the co-founder and CEO of Weaveworks, the creator of GitOps that unlocks cloud native agility, reliability and scalability. Previously he was the TOC chairman at the CNCF, and co-founded RabbitMQ. Today, Alexis shares his advice on how to build a successful open source community and an open source company. Some key things he talks about if you want to build a successful business around open source are trust, communication, and incentives. Also, we learn more about Weaveworks, the products, and the solutions to make your life easier. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn much more from Alexis! [00:01:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=83)] Alexis shares with us his history of what he did in the tech industry before he co-founded Weaveworks. [00:08:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=492)] Tzury asks Alexis if people are preferring open source as sort of an insurance policy to get more confidence with the software they’re using, or are they actually preferring the open source so they can actively contribute and get involved in the development and patch. [00:10:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=600)] Alexis tells us that open source coincides with two phenomena that they’ve seen that are very important, self-service and agile. [00:13:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=820)] Alexis shares his thoughts on what an open source company is and how an open source company operates. He talks about Confluent and how they work on Kafka, which is an open source product. [00:16:34 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=994)] We learn from Alexis his recommendations if you want to build a successful business around open source. [00:21:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1260)] Alexis shares his advice on the secret of building a successful community, and he talks about trust, communication, and incentives. [00:22:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1372)] Justin asks Alexis how it went in terms of relying on the community to come up with those plugins he mentioned. [00:25:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1529)] We learn more about Weaveworks, the products, and the solutions. [00:28:44 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1724)] Alexis shares his opinion of the role of CNCF within the Cloud Native movement and the Cloud Native Open Source. [00:29:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1799)] We learn who coined GitOps, Alexis tells us why he’s a big fan of Kelsey Hightower, and Tzury asks Alexis how long he thinks it will take Kubernetes to be really simple to use. [00:34:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=2057)] Alexis fills us in on the industry being cyclical, the new buyers, and if technologies are growing that rapidly. [00:41:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=2501)] We end with Alexis saying to buy from Weaveworks and use GitOps to make your life easier. Quotes [00:02:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=175)] “One of the lessons we had learned was that open source software was going to be how people would consume infrastructure, at least at some base level.” [00:06:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=365)] “Instead, we focused on, you know, solving problems for the cloud generation of apps represented by the Silicon Valley companies.” [00:12:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=733)] “And if you think about software developers as people, which we do now luckily, then it’s really easy to see that people want to have convenience in their work.” [00:13:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=828)] “An open source company is a company that primarily works with or produces open source tools in order to engage with customers who are users first because they have a free experience as well as potentially a paid experience.” [00:15:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=917)] “The question then becomes what is open, and for some companies, the answer has been everything has been open because we sell a complimentary product.” [00:16:34 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=994)] “Anyway, today my recommendation would be that you know, you really need to think that if you want to build a business around something open source, number one rule, your open source project has to be successful.” [00:18:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1094)] “So, you need to be a leader for your project to be successful and people need to be aware that you’re the leader. And for that to be true, you really need to be pretty fully featured.” [00:20:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1213)] “And obviously everyone knows that engineering the results those are not infinite, and nobody expects you to have all the features that they could possibly imagine, and you should always be prepared to say no.” [00:21:19 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1279)] “So the secret of good community is trust and communication, and I think thirdly, incentives.” [00:21:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1306)] “You can’t be a leader if you’re not actually telling people what’s going on.” [00:22:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1350)] “You need to find a way to encourage contributors to take ownership so then you can have an ecosystem.” [00:22:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1378)] “Well you have to seed it yourself. So, you need to go out and be prepared to go and find people to build first ones, and then you create the momentum.” [00:24:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1488)] “And once you have that, you’ll have enterprise series users coming along and you won’t just have small scale use or people with no money, but also people who actually have real business problems that need solving around operations, and scale and security and governance, automation, BI, AI, everything.” [00:29:12 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=1752)] ”That is why we put our GitOps application CD tool Flux and our progressive delivery tool Flagger, for example, into the CNCF, so we can co-invest in them with Amazon and Microsoft and Alibaba for example.” [00:36:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/13?t=2182)] “But if you’re building a business, it’s a really good chance to find areas where you can solve problems that generate revenue.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Alexis Richardson Twitter (https://twitter.com/monadic) Alexis Richardson Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardsonalexis) Weaveworks (https://www.weave.works/) Confluent (https://www.confluent.io/) GitOps (https://www.weave.works/technologies/gitops/) “Kelsey, Kubernetes, and GitOps”-GitHub Universe 2020-YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAa5wHsfw4) “A Hands-on Walk Through of GitOps”- Kelsey Hightower-GitOps Days 2020-YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbDidLauGtQ) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript One of the lessons that we have learned was that Open source software was going to be how people would consume infrastructure, at least at some base level. We weren't sure exactly what the business model was going to be, but we could see it was going to be important. For example, Metalogic in Finland, we've been introduced them all to Martin Micus at mysql and he'd say, yeah, sure I'd be very happy to distribute your app server with my database, but you'll need to make at least some source, we weren't sure what that would mean.  Intro [00:28]: Hello and welcome to committing to cloud-native, the podcast where we talk about the interface between open source and cloud-native. We're super excited about our guests today, can't wait to introduce him. Our panelists today are Justin Dorfman and Dory [Name] and they're going to have an awesome conversation. I really enjoyed listening to it, and I really hope you enjoy this conversation. Justin [00:52]: How are you doing today, Alexis?  Alexis [00:54]: Very well. Thank you. Nice to be here.  Justin [00:57]: Thank you, Justin. Thank you Alexis for coming out. I'm very excited and the very early days of thinking, considering and planning out to make your [01:07inaudible] as a public officers project. We have a really insightful and effective conversation and some of those great ideas I hope you can elaborate today and repeat them to the benefits of our audience. So Alexis, would you mind sharing with us your professional history before you came about co-founding and running Weaveworks? Alexis [01:34]: I'll try. I mean, I've been in the tech industry for about 20 years, before that I was in financial services. My first job after leaving university was with Goldman Sachs where I was a derivatives trader for a while, and I had a background in mathematics and computation and things like this and an interest in technology. [01:55] So when I was working in the city, I became very interested in how technology was affecting, how people made money and did their busi

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Flavio Percoco Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Today, we have a special guest joining us from Italy, Flavio Percoco, who is Senior Principal Software Engineer at Red Hat. Flavio tells us about working at Red Hat, why he uses OpenShift, and how he stays relevant and chooses what projects he’s interested in. We also learn the moment Flavio realized he made the right choice about his profession, where he thinks Cloud Native is going, the project he is most interested in now, and his thoughts on why Curiefense is the best community right now. Download this episode now to learn so much more! [00:02:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=150)] Flavio tells us about working on OpenStack and Elastic. [00:04:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=287)] We find out why Flavio uses OpenShift versus another. [00:06:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=381)] Flavio tells us about the CNCF project Kubernetes. [00:07:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=460)] Richard asks Flavio since he’s building the tools for people, how does he stay relevant, how does he know what the clients need, and how does he choose what projects he’s interested in. [00:12:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=771)] Justin wonders what made Flavio want to go back to Red Hat. [00:15:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=905)] Tzury asks Flavio to share his “moment” in life when he realized he made the right choice with his profession. [00:17:50 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1070)] Flavio tells us where he thinks Cloud Native is going and how he thinks we can get there. [00:27:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1634)] Richard wonders why Flavio is doing the exact thing he is doing now, how did he decide that this was interesting to him, and why Cloud Native. [00:30:45 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1845)] We learn what project Flavio is most interested in right now. [00:31:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1914)] Flavio talks about Curiefense, and why he thinks this is the best community right now. [00:35:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=2131)] Justin talks about what really impressed him about Flavio when the GitHub thing came out when they changed from master to main. [00:36:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=2185)] Find out where you can follow Flavio online. Quotes [00:03:56 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=236)] “You work with like fewer resources and you’ve got to get creative on how to build your regions and data centers, and how to automate that in a way that you can deploy thousands and thousands of those bare metal nodes.” [00:04:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=266)] “The real hard problem comes from day-to-day operations, where you have to actually manage the whole cluster, and all of your regions, and all your zones, and all that kind of things.” [00:08:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=537)] “It’s one of those stories that it works in my laptop, but like, there’s so many gotchas when you actually run yourself, then you put it in production and you actually have people using your stuff that you don’t realize then until you’re actually running it.” [00:09:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=551)] “And many times people don’t run your software through the way you think they’re doing it, and many times they’re not even using it for the stuff you created it for.” [00:11:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=717)] “It’s good to have good processes so that engineers know you know what things to work on and what things are important, but it’s also true that it’s also the engineer’s responsibility or the developer’s responsibility to go and try to find this information because at the end of the day you’re building a software that someone else has to use.” [00:13:02 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=782)] “To me it was a lot of people, culture, and the fact that Red Hat is an open source company.” [00:13:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=806)] “I have no time to be fighting with people. I have zero patience for people that are not willing to contribute and cooperate and stuff like that.” [00:16:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=993)] “That was the thing that really just like made me fall in love with computers is the fact that you’re bringing in this access to technology, you have the power to bring technology to many people in different places and improve people’s lives and have a huge impact in what society looks like today and what the world is going to look like tomorrow.” [00:19:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1163)] “It’s extremely important for people to have the right infrastructure to be able to develop whatever they’re doing research on and be able to do it also without having to do a massive upfront investment, which is something that tends to be a massive impediment for people to actually move on into the stuff they’re interested in.” [00:19:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1187)] “And this is the other thing that to me, not only in the Cloud Native world, but like all the open source is extremely important because I didn’t go to college.” [00:32:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1940)] “It really excites me that from day zero where we’re all being open to making the right calls that will favor community, and it will favor contribution over just pushing features and just like adding stuff to the software.” [00:33:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=1988)] “But, even at the cost of moving slower or taking care of very important things like having proper CI, and I don’t mean CI in terms of we need to test our software, I mean CI in the sense of if someone comes and submits a PR and that PR is not correct, what is the best way for us to communicate that to the person that is contributing that PR.” [00:34:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/12?t=2077)] “I’m extremely excited about this and this is something that it’s close to my heart, like in communities and cultures are really close to my heart way more than software is.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Flavio Percoco Website (http://flaper87.com/) Flavio Percoco Twitter (https://twitter.com/flaper87) Flavio Percoco Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/fpercoco/) Red Hat (https://www.redhat.com/en) Red Hat OpenShift (https://www.openshift.com/) OpenShift Assisted Installer-GitHub (https://github.com/openshift/assisted-installer) Metal3 (https://metal3.io/) OpenShift Assisted Installer #278-GitHub (https://github.com/openshift/assisted-installer/issues/278) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Flavio [00:02]: I wasn't into computers until I was probably 18 years old. In my childhood I only played outside in the mountains, in the rivers. I used to run with a machete in my hand, just like cutting grass. Man I'm from South America. That's how we do it. It is like that. I say this because I'm actually happy that I had this childhood when I could just like interact with nature and eventually just find this thing that is going to be the tool and the stuff that I want to. Richard [00:33]: Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of Cloud Native and open source. Super excited about our guest today, which is kind of what I say for most guests, but this one in particular, just because he is awesome energy and helped us deal with some squabbles in the beginning with technology, which makes me think that open source and cloud native will also be dealt with appropriately. Very excited about that. Before I introduce Flavio. Oh no, I already did. I want to introduce the other panelists here. We have Justin Dorfman. Justin, how are you? Justin [01:05]: I'm doing great. How are you, Richard? Richard [01:07]: I'm good. Thanks for asking and Tzury Bah Yochay. Tzury how are you doing? Tzury [01:12]: It's bah-yo-hi, not bah-yo-hay. Richard time for you to get it right. Richard [01:18]: Tzury Bah Yochay Tzury [01:18]: There you go. Episode number eight or number 10, who knows and you got it correctly. I'm fine by the way. Great day today. Richard [01:28]: Glad to hear it. Flavio Percoco. Did I get that right? Flavio [01:33]: You did yeah. Richard [01:39]: It's so good to have you. Flavio is joining us today from his beautiful mansion in Lake Como, because I can't imagine anyone living in Lake Como and not having a giant awesome house on the lake. He's a software engineer at Red Hat. Flavio, how often do you just sit and look at your lake mansion and think this is it, I've made it? Flavio [01:58]:Quite often. I'll have to invite you over to show you what a mansion actually means in Italy. It's like very packed. It's not what you're thinking right now. The only people that have mansions here is like [inaudible 02:11] those people. I guess it's fine, but like, it's awesome. I go there quite often when I'm in tow

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Connor Hicks Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Today as our guest, we have Connor Hicks, Maintainer of Suborbital and Staff Software Developer, Product Discovery Lead at 1Password. We will learn all about Suborbital and how it’s going to make Cloud Native better, and the three projects that he refers to as the building blocks. We also find out more about 1Password, how they are using 1Password with Cloud Native with their projects, and their most recent launch of 1Password Secrets Automation. Connor talks about his partnership with HashiCorp, and we hear his thoughts on the complexity in the Cloud Native world. Go ahead and download this episode now because there is so much more we talk about with Connor! [00:01:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=101)] Connor explains what Suborbital is and how it’s going to make Cloud Native better. [00:03:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=184)] Microsoft, Google, Intel, and Mozilla want to move WebAssembly beyond the browser, and Conner explains what this means. [00:05:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=300)] Connor tells us a little bit about himself and how he got into computers and software, and why he decided iOS development was not for him. [00:09:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=586)] We find out more about how many front-end applications there are today using WebAssembly, and he mentions Figma and Internet Archive. [00:10:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=633)] Connor explains two ways you can take advantage of Suborbitals projects. He explains the three projects that he refers as the building blocks: Graph, Reactr, and Vectr, which together form Atmo. [00:14:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=868)] Justin wonders since Connor is not looking for sponsors, donations, or patrons, how is he sustaining this and what’s the plan. Also, Justin wonders if he’s considered submitting any of his projects to the CNCF. [00:15:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=925)] Tzury asks Connor if he’s doing all this work by himself or if he’s collaborating with others, and Justin asks how he’s managing his community. Connor talks about their recent launch of 1Password Secrets Automation, and how they’re now also offering Cloud Native software to their customers to run, which are the 1Password Connect Server, 1Password SCIM bridge, and 1Password command-line tool. [00:19:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1175)] Connor tells us about his partnership with HashiCorp. [00:20:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1223)] We find out how Connor feels about the complexity in the Cloud Native world. [00:25:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1505)] Tzury asks Connor if Atmo is used to replace obligation from development or if it used to empower existing ones, and if it’s extendable and pluggable. Connor also tells us about using programming languages that they support such as Rust, Go, Swift, and AssemblyScript. Connor mentions using Unicorn Platform in helping him design his website. [00:29:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1745)] Find out why Connor recommends not using Atmo for production use yet. [00:30:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1814)] We learn what the available server-side technologies are to plugin and to integrate with WebAssembly modules or WebAssembly code. [00:34:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=2049)] Connor tells us where the 1Password name came from and where he came up with the name Suborbital and Atmo. [00:40:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=2428)] Connor tells us how he would like Atmo to replace Lambda in some ways. He tells us he would love to get feedback on the Suborbital projects so you can join the Suborbital discord, file issues in the GitHub repos, or join the GitHub discussions in their Meta Repo and reach out to Connor. Quotes [00:01:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=111)] “It’s a family of open source projects and each of them individually may not stream WebAssembly, but that is actually the main theme, enabling WebAssembly specifically on the server side.” [00:10:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=653)] “And that’s because the projects are organized to be a set of building blocks and then a platform built on those building blocks. So, the three projects that I refer to as the building blocks are Grav, Reactr, and Vectr.” [00:14:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=883)] “It’s something that I just love doing.” [00:15:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=914)] “Once WebAssembly as a whole kind of builds up a bit more steam and once the user base grows a little bit, it’s definitely something that I want to think about doing.” [00:17:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1042)] ”Yeah, there’s a little bit of use of some of the Suborbital building blocks.” [00:17:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1072)] “And so, we’ve built up quite a lot of experience running Cloud Native at 1Password.” [00:18:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1117)] “There’s been a bunch of lessons learned, because not only are we running Cloud Native software to power 1Password, but we’re now also offering Cloud Native software to our customers to run.” [00:19:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1181)] “So what you can do now is you can actually, there’s a plugin for HashiCorp vaults with 1Password Secrets Automation so you can actually make your 1Password data available through HashiCorp vault using their backend system.” [00:20:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1233)] “So, I definitely have thoughts here and that’s one of the main drivers when I’m building Suborbital.” [00:22:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1356)] “But you can imagine where a system that can intelligently decide where to run the different pieces of compute that comprise your application, and that’s something that I’ve been calling decomposed computing.” [00:23:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1434)] “Absorbing complexity where it makes sense is always the right call.” [00:26:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=1568)] “And I won’t go off on too much of a tangent, but I do believe “Go” is the best thing to be using for Cloud Native right now.” [00:42:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/11?t=2560)] “And if there’s one kind of idea that I could leave off with is that I’m hoping a couple of years from now, WebAssembly will just be an implementation detail. I don’t want WebAssembly to be the headline feature on my website in three years, I want it to be a footnote.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Connor Hicks Twitter (https://twitter.com/cohix) Connor Hicks Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/connor-hicks-05044166/) Suborbital (https://suborbital.dev/) WebAssembly (https://webassembly.org/) 1Password (https://1password.com/) 1Password Secrets Automation (https://1password.com/secrets/) 1Password SCIM bridge (https://blog.1password.com/scim-bridge-release/) 1Password command-line tool (https://1password.com/downloads/command-line/) HashiCorp (https://www.hashicorp.com/) Go (https://golang.org/) “Microsoft, Google, Intel and Mozilla want to move WebAssembly beyond the browser”-ZDNet (https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-google-back-bytecode-alliance-to-move-webassembly-beyond-the-browser/) Unicorn Platform (https://unicornplatform.com/) WebAssembly Summit 2021 (https://webassembly-summit.org/) WebAssembly Live! (https://www.webassembly.live/) Cloud Native Wasm Day 2021 (https://cloudnativewasmeu21.sched.com/) KubeCon/CloudNativeCon 2021 (https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-north-america/) Suborbital Meta-GitHub (https://github.com/suborbital/meta) Suborbital Discord (https://discord.com/invite/dyTQJhwqgW) Suborbital-GitHub (https://github.com/suborbital) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Connor: 00:02 The number of layers that you need to be thinking about constantly is crazy. Orchestration, networking. Do I add a service mesh? How do I run my database? What are the differences between the cloud providers, Kubernetes distributions. What's this K3S thing thing over here. There's just so much to think about. It used to be so simple. You would throw up a VM, you would auto scale it and you would run your monolith. I don't think we should go back to that by any means, but I think there's a new generation on the horizon that gives us some of the best of both. Announcer: 00:39 Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the interface between open source and cloud native. We're super excited about our guest today. Can't wait to introduce him. Our panelists today are Justin Dorfman and Tzury [inaudible 00:54] and they're going to have an awesome conversation. I really enjoyed listening to it and I really hope you enjoy this conversation. Justin: 01:03 Hey Connor, how are you? Connor: 01:04 Hey, doing well. How are you? Justin: 01:06 Great,

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Chris Ferreira Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Today as our guest, we have Chris Ferreira, who is the Principal Engineer and Architect for the WebEx Platform at Cisco. Chris tells us how he started out in culinary school and ended up in the IT world, working in startups on the front end and the back end, working for Microsoft, and now Cisco. He shares the story of his first day at Cisco, the deal he made with his teammates, and the amazing results. We learn how he became a Product Advisor for Curiefense that started when he met Tzury, and what transposed after he drew his ideas on a napkin. Also, Chris explains the methodology behind the “Four Knows” that he believes the tech industry gets best. Download this episode now to find out so much more! [00:01:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=91)] We hear Chris’s unorthodox background and how he built his career. [00:05:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=354)] Chris tells us about getting introduced into Kubernetes and becoming a code contributor to Istio in a pretty big way. [00:12:24 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=744)] Justin wonders what was it that made Chris want to leave Microsoft to go work at Cisco. [00:14:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=865)] Chris shares his story about his first day of work at Cisco and what escalated from that day on. [00:17:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1033)] Justin asks Chris if he would classify Cisco as a hybrid architecture. [00:18:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1111)] We hear a great story from Chris when he met Tzury in London right before COVID. [00:24:31 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1471)] Chris shares Cisco’s strategy in the Cloud space. [00:29:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1770)] Chris talks about how layers of software add complexity and he explains what he does. [00:32:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1960)] Tzury wonders why tech is the pioneer of this open source phenomena and Chris explains the methodology of the “Four Knows.” [00:33:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=2035)] Tzury asks Chris if there are features or capabilities that he would love to see in Curiefense for Cisco. Quotes [00:05:56 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=356)] “And at the time, Kubernetes was a whisper in the background.” [00:06:06 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=366)] “But, shortly after that I got introduced to Kubernetes and I don’t want to say it was love at first sight, but it was pretty darn close.” [00:07:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=434)] “The service mesh wasn’t really a defined term.” [00:08:24 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=504)] “And the response I got was no one’s ever moved a multi-billion-dollar AR business into microservices. He was probably correct, I’m not gonna lie, but like I said before, I’m pretty stubborn.” [00:08:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=533)] “And we started tinkering with the Linux containers doing code check-ins and doing things in the Kubernetes infrastructure, and implementing the Istio service mesh with the Envoy Proxy, handling communication paths and so on and so forth.” [00:12:32 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=752)] “However, an opportunity came over here in Cisco and it was like look, we want to run, not just in one cloud, we want to run in every cloud.” [00:14:01 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=841)] “They were building out data centers and geographic expansion would take months to do, to just stand up a single data center.” [00:14:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=899)] “I feel everyone should have skin in the game. If you don’t have skin in the game, then why trust the person?” [00:15:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=921)] “I don’t want to be building physical data centers, especially with the VM based infrastructure.” [00:15:44 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=944)] “We went down from a 6-7-month timeframe down to right around 60 minutes.” [00:16:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=980)] “We put the right tools in place that we could kind of track our capacity in a better way which allowed us to do that expansion so quickly.” [00:21:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1303)] “WAF doesn’t have to be this overbearing heavy component that you have to run into your infrastructure that adds extreme amounts of latency and it can become a security filter in the entire communication path.” [00:24:43 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1483)] “Cisco’s strategy in the cloud has been strategic, right, that you see certain acquisitions that have been done.” [00:30:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1836)] “For example, everyone has Android and iOS phones. iOS phones from a hardware perspective are significantly underpowered here too, the specs you see in the Android device. But for some reason, iOS destroys Android in those benchmark cases.” [00:31:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1895)] “Cloud Native has been one of the critical pieces to getting some of the things we have done recently, and it has allowed us to do so much more than we ever have before with so much less.” [00:31:50 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1910)] “The open source community is just so incredible.” [00:32:49 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=1969)] “I always come back to the methodology that someone told me a couple of years back that there’s the four knows, and I think that the tech industry gets it the best. You know what you know what you don’t know, sometimes you don’t know what you know, and there are definitely cases where you don’t know what you don’t know.” [00:34:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/10?t=2049)] “So, security in Cisco is not a P1 or P2, it is a P0! And it’s really important that a company that does networking, that does hardware in certain ways, security is the fundamental base of everything that Cisco does.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Chris Ferreira Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chferrei) Cisco (https://www.cisco.com/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Chris [00:02]: Shortly after that, I got introduced to Kubernetes and I don't want to say it was love at first sight, but it was pretty darn close. I really liked the simplicity. I'm a very simplistic person. If it's over-complicated and over-engineered people just didn't understand the problem well enough, in my opinion. So when I looked at Kubernetes, I was like, okay, just something simple, you pass it in, you execute, it dies. That's the way things should be looking like.  Richard [00:28]: Hello and welcome to committing to Cloud Native, the podcast where we talk about the confluence of open source and cloud native infrastructure. Our panelists today are Justin Dorfman and [inaudible 00:38] and they're going to have an awesome conversation, I really enjoyed listening to it, with Chris Ferrera. Chris is joining us today from Austin, Texas. He's the principal engineer and architect for the WebEx platform at Cisco and I really hope you enjoy this conversation. Take it away, Tzury.  Tzury [00:56]: Hello Chris, how are you today? Chris [00:59]: I'm good. And yourself? Justin [01:00]: Hey Chris.  Tzury [01:02]: Doing great. Hey Justin.  Justin [01:03]: Hey Tzury. So today we have Chris here, Chris, our friend from Cisco and before we going to jump into our short story, which is [inaudible 01:13] we would love to hear Chris's history in the world and he has a bunch of great stories, which when I heard him back in the day in London, when we met about year and a half ago, I was fascinated and I hope he'll share some of those with us today.  Justin [01:31]: Chris, I want to hear what's your background, where'd you come from and how have you built your career?   Chris [01:37]: I have a bit of an unorthodox background, I think that's probably the best way to put it. When I actually went to college, I went for culinary school and I went there to become a chef. So that's kind of where my discipline and my rigor I think originated from because of the way you kind of operate in a kitchen is almost like a militant style. But I did go to obviously the IT world because I had spent a good amount of time in my youth and I always had a knack for it and I bounced around in a couple of startups to begin with and the startup story was pretty awesome because it was never boring, we got to wear a different hat everyday and you had to take on a different role every day. By doing that, I got to fill up my trivia pursuit pie if you will, of knowledge and I got to work on the front end, I got to work in the back end and then I started to kind of look into platform. But the last startup that I was at was a company called Parature, which was a CRM and we were completely cloud. Now we run our own data centers and [inaudible 02:41] and we had components at the time in AWS. AWS was pretty much th

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Les Jackson Developer Advocate · Author Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the Cloud Native space. Today, we have an exceptional guest, Les Jackson, who is a Developer Advocate at Marketplacer. Find out what Les does at Marketplacer, the story of how his awesome YouTube channel and the Dotnet Playbook started, and the idea behind his book, The Complete ASP.NET Core 3 API Tutorial, developed. Also, Les explains what got him started doing Cloud Data content, and his interest in using Envoy to make microservices. Download this episode now to find out much more! [00:01:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=113)] Les tells us about himself, how he ended up a developer, and how he got to where he is now. [00:04:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=251)] We find out what Les does as a Developer Advocate for Marketplacer and the main frameworks and languages that he uses. [00:06:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=360)] Les tells us the story of how his YouTube channel and the Dotnet Playbook started. [00:07:39 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=459)] We learn the story behind Les writing a book called, The Complete ASP.NET Core 3 API Tutorial. [00:12:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=742)] Les talks about what got him started doing Cloud Data content. Also, he mentions an API Gateway called Ocelot. [00:16:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=973)] Les explains his creative process and why he was interested in using Envoy to begin with to make microservices. [00:20:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1202)] Tzury wonders if Les was always around Microsoft tech. [00:25:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1505)] If Les wrote another book, he tells us what it would be about. [00:29:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1742)] Richard asks Les if he can speak more about how he feels that open source has influenced his time as a YouTube code reviewer and code maker. [00:32:45 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1965)] Richard shares his thoughts about whether providing a credit card to sign up is a barrier to entry to adopting Cloud. [00:35:18 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=2118)] Tzury asks what efforts Les is taking as Developer Advocates, in making sure what code people are writing and using on your platform, and if they provide guidelines, tutorials, or tools for testing. [00:37:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=2260)] Find out where you can follow Les online. Quotes [00:14:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=865)] “They then pivoted to Envoy, and I thought this looks like a really interesting platform, so that’s actually where the idea for the video came from.” [00:17:03 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1023)] “But going back to why do I find microservices interesting, I think cause you kind of mentioned possibly, they’re hard, so it’s a bit of a problem. They’re really not an easy thing to implement.” [00:17:25 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1045)] “And I think I did mention that again, I’ve looked at some reference architectures and often what I like to do is pick them apart and kind of reverse engineer them to see if I can get them to work, because often I can’t get them to work out of the box where they maybe give you everything you need, do you try and run them up and there’s just this whole morass of errors.” [00:19:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1145)] “So, that’s why I picked Envoy, number one, I think it’s going to be around for a while.” [00:23:15 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1395)] “What actually got me back into development, one of the things that got me back into it was when Microsoft brought out .NET Core, which is this kind of open source secondary branch.” [00:30:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1820)] “Open source has completely changed things.” [00:30:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1855)] “Going back twenty years, everything was kind of locked down. You had to pay for absolutely everything and the quality wasn’t even sometimes that particularly good.” [00:33:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/9?t=1990)] “On the flip side, what I think that people who are proponents of Cloud Native things, and I think that’s really interesting technology. So, I thought about why is it good is because it just gives you so much more massive power then you’re able to do at home.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Les Jackson Twitter (https://twitter.com/binarythistle?lang=en) Les Jackson YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIMRGVXufHT69s1uaHHYJIA) Dotnet Playbook (https://dotnetplaybook.com/) Marketplacer (https://marketplacer.com/) Leanpub (https://leanpub.com/) The Complete ASP.NET Core 3 API Tutorial by Les Jackson (https://www.apress.com/gp/book/9781484262542) Ocelot-GitHub (https://github.com/ThreeMammals/Ocelot) The Kubelist Podcast-Episode 13-Curifense with Tzury Bar Yochay and Justin Dorfman of Reblaze (https://www.heavybit.com/library/podcasts/the-kubelist-podcast/ep-13-curiefense-with-tzury-bar-yochay-and-justin-dorfman-of-reblaze/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript [00:00:01] Intro: A problem that really not an easy thing to implement. And I totally understand why people maintain monoliths for such a long time, because going to microservices architecture is very difficult. And so I think that just appeals to me to try and pick it apart. And I think I did mention that again, I've looked to some reference architectures and often I like to do is pick them apart and kind of reverse engineer them to see if I can get them to work. [00:00:27] Richard Littauer: Hello, and welcome to Committing to Cloud Natives, the podcast where we talk about committing to both open source and the Cloud. How do they go together, how they work to make a better internet world, and how we're here to make sure that we can continue doing awesome stuff with Cloud technology? Today, we have two other panelists besides me. I'm Richard Littauer. Hello everyone. We also have Justin Dorfman. Justin, how you doing? [00:00:52] Justin Dorfman: I'm great, Richard. How are you? [00:00:54] Richard: Doing good. Thanks for being here. And we have Tzury Bar Yochay. Tzury, how are you doing? [00:01:00] Tzury Bar Yochay: Doing great, Richard. Thank you. [00:01:02] Richard: Excellent. And because we don't necessarily like recording talking to just ourselves, we also have a guest on today as is normal. Our guest, however, hopefully, is not normal, but rather an exceptional person. I'm really excited to introduce him. We have Les Jackson. He's calling in today from Melbourne. He is a developer advocate at Marketplacer and has done a ton of really interesting stuff in this space. Les, how are you doing today? [00:01:30] Les Jackson: I am very good. Thank you. I'm very flattered that you would call me exceptional. I'm not sure that's the case, but I will accept your compliment. Thank you very much. [00:01:40] Richard: So Les, you also do a few other things. First off, to just background, to me, it's really obvious that you're not actually Australian. I went to the University of Edinburgh. I lived there for five years and you sound pretty Scottish to me. How did you end up where you are? [00:01:57] Les: That's a good question. So you are very much correct. I'm from Scotland originally. I'm actually from Glasgow, which is like the other big city in Scotland. I moved to Australia about 11 years ago. And when people ask me why I did that, there isn't really a good reason. I had a visa that I had applied for just sort of randomly and it was going to expire. So I thought, well, that was a good time as any. It was really just the change I was after. And yes, it's worked out pretty well. Been here 11 years, so yeah, it's a nice place to live. [00:02:26] Richard: It would be. One of the things I really like about your Twitter handle is that it's Binary Thistle, which shows that you're from Scotland because thistle is the national flower of Scotland, quite thorny, but also binary. Right? So you're interested in code. So you moved to Australia 11 years ago. How did you end up as a developer and how did you get to where you are now? [00:02:45] Les: Sure. Well, I mean the developer journey started way back in Scotland in the UK. So went to university in Glasgow. I did a degree in computer science, which was predominantly maths, which I probably should have researched the course a bit more thoroughly, I always thought I was just going to do a lot of coding, but it was mostly really heavy mathematics, which was okay. Anyway, I joined when I left uni and I was fortunate enough to join the National Telco, which is British Telecoms a big company, lots of opportunities there. And I really started as a developer there and that's really what got me started many years ago, more years ago than I would care to mention. Looking at the young faces around the room, I'm probably the oldest person here and

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Kelsey Hightower Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the cloud native space. If you are ready to be taken on a magical journey look no further. We are super excited to have as our awesome guest today, Kelsey Hightower, who is Principal Engineer and Principal Staff Advocate at Google in the Google Cloud Platform Division. Kelsey shares with us how ended up in the Cloud Native space, joining Google, and his job offer at NASA. We also learn about how Kelsey succeeds with his live demo’s, why he calls himself a Minimalist, and the amazing story behind No Code. Find out why Justin calls Kelsey the “Metaphor King,” and how Kelsey thinks engaging people and telling stories can help a little better at building things. Don’t wait any longer and download this episode now to find out more magical things from the “Principal Storyteller!” [00:02:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=140)] Kelsey talks about how he ended up in the Cloud Native Space and how he joined Google. [00:04:20 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=260)] Find out about Kelsey’s job offer at NASA. [00:06:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=393)] Richard wonders since open source has longer timelines if it resonates with Kelsey. [00:09:38 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=578)] Kelsey tells us his role in Google with open source projects. [00:11:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=719)] We hear Kelsey’s thoughts on if Istio is really good at delivering all that documentation, if it could use work, or if that’s the Google way when it comes to open source. [00:17:27 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1047)] Tzury wonders how Kelsey’s been doing all these years pitching to the Developers who can be a tough crowd in the industry. [00:19:18 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1158)] Justin mentions how “suspenseful” Kelsey’s live demos are and he wonders how he goes in front of thousands of people without freaking out. [00:23:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1402)] Tzury wonders why Kelsey calls himself a minimalist on his Twitter when he’s so fascinating on stage. [00:24:55 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1495)] We learn about Kelsey’s GitHub repo called No Code, which has 46,000 stars. [00:28:15 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1695)] Kelsey tells us how he came up with the No Code idea. [00:30:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1854)] Kelsey shares where he sees Cloud Native going in the future. [00:33:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2034)] Find out why Kelsey said, “Magicians are cool, but teachers are better!” [00:37:24 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2244)] Justin calls Kelsey the “Metaphor King” since he’s so successful at communicating what he sees and his values, and Richard wonders if he has any tips to share on how to do that effectively do that. Kelsey shares some outstanding advice! [00:40:21 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2421)] Justin wonders if it’s been a blessing in disguise for Kelsey to have the year off speaking at conferences because of the COVID 19 breakout. [00:43:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2626)] Find out where you can follow Kelsey online. Quotes [00:03:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=220)] “So, when Kubernetes dropped I kind of looked at it and said you know what, this is probably it!” [00:04:29 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=269)] “After I left CoreOS I actually signed, you know, my deal to go work for JPL out in Pasadena, and I had done a little bit of work before then on the open source front, and they were using Kubernetes to power their kinda on-site data center there.” [00:05:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=335)] “They explained to me some of the projects you work on at NASA, I think there was one project where, you know, one of the spacecrafts flew past Pluto and took a bunch of pictures, and it’s like that person that worked on that retired two decades ago.” [00:06:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=396)] “It depends on how these projects are launched.” [00:07:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=442)] “And then you have things that are kind of wide open, hey, we’re taking all contributions and then maybe you find out that may or may not be sustainable.” [00:07:37 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=457)] “You build a product, you gotta make that thing profitable day one. That is the success metric.” [00:08:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=528)] “Because when you say yes or no, you’re signing up for long-term maintenance. Someone can drop by with a contribution and then be gone forever, but it’s on you to maintain.” [00:09:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=551)] “You see people get mad. It’s like, when is this thing going to get updated. I’ve been using it for twenty years for free and this is unacceptable. And you’re like, I’ll give you a refund?” [00:09:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=597)] “I think what people may not understand is Google doesn’t have to try very hard on the open source side.” [00:10:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=646)] “So when it comes to open source and when people say Cloud Native, I think Google has earned appropriate credit for helping spawn this thing. At CoreOS, our mission was GIFEE (Google’s Infrastructure for Everyone Else). [00:12:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=731)] “I mean if you think about it, what does have great documentation? Almost no one likes any documentation anywhere. “ [00:12:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=742)] “What’s the documentation for Bash?” [00:12:46 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=766)] “I think documentation is kind of a community thing. You can always go write a book to fill in the gaps. You can always create a documentation site all on your own.” [00:13:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=787)] “Google’s approach has been, number one, Envoy is amazing. Let’s contribute to it.” [00:14:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=898)] “But, I also am one of those persons that wrote Kubernetes the hard way because I thought there was a lack of documentation.” [00:17:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1048)] “So I don’t pitch to them which is the key. The key is I’m just learning in public.” [00:17:33 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1053)] “I think when people say, when Kelsey talks about something, I have that empathy that you can see yourself probably typing the same commands that I do in my live demo.” [00:18:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1134)] “Imagine if every developer had to implement HTTP first, we would all be like this is crazy. But that’s kind of what we’re doing on the infrastructure side and we’re proud of it.” [00:20:17 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1217)] “All those micro feelings of joy that I get from making these work, I try to bottle them up and make that part of the talk.” [00:22:40 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1360)] “I feel like I’m being the Dungeon Master. I’m telling the story and you can see people leaning in like, this ain’t gonna work!” [00:25:22 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1522)] “So No Code, honestly I think the people took it and ran with it, but it told me one thing, that I think people are getting tired of all this complexity.” [00:31:01 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1861)] “I just think any technology that’s super successful has to get democratized, that the people who use it in mass shouldn’t know how to actually build it. That shouldn’t be a requirement.” [00:31:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=1873)] “If you want to see any technology, see global adoption, then it can’t require everyone to know how to operate it at the very lowest levels.” [00:33:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2034)] “I would say magicians are cool, but teachers are better!” [00:36:39 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/8?t=2199)] “If you’re listening to this and you’re struggling, like why language is good for diversity, some people resonate with food better. You go and taste food from another country it’s like, wow, I would have never thought to put those things together! This is delicious! That’s what diversity gets you when people are trying different things based on their own independent culture, so maybe that would help a lot more people understand and maybe appreciate diversity exists.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Kelsey Hightower Twitter (https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Google Cloud (https://cloud.google.com/) “From McDonald’s to Google: How Kelsey Hightower became one of the most respected people in cloud computing” by Tom Krazit (Protocol) (https://www.protocol.com/enterprise/kelsey-hightower-google-cloud) No Code-GitHub (https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode) GIFEE (Google’s Infrastructure for Everyone Else)-GitHub (https://github.com/linearregression/GIFEE) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Transcript by Layten Pryce (https://www.fiverr.com/misstranscript) Transcript Intro: Hello, welcome to Commit

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer | Tzury Bar Yochay Guest Richard Li Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the cloud native space. Today, we have as a panelist, Tzury Bar Yochay, who is the CTO and Co-Founder of Reblaze. Also, joining us as our guest, we have Richard Li, who is the Co-Founder and CEO of Ambassador Labs, which builds popular open source tools for Kubernetes. Today, Richard explains to us the story behind starting Datawire and the different projects that were built out of that, including Telepresence and Ambassador API Gateway. We also find out about Richard’s experience at Red Hat and why he moved on to becoming an entrepreneur. He shares two areas to focus on in order to build a successful open source company, as well as the process he went through starting his company, and what his first product was. We also learn more about Argo and the things Richard sees Ambassador Labs focusing on in the next few years. Download this episode now to hear many more fascinating things! [00:01:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=96)] Richard explains what Datawire, Ambassador API Gateway, and Emissary- Ingress is. [00:03:58 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=238)] Tzury gives us his insight into his experience in CNCF licensing. [00:05:11 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=311)] Speaking about the new project and the donation that Richard did, Justin wonders what his expectations are in getting to graduation and if he’s looking to accelerate getting it to the next level. [00:06:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=407)] We learn how long it took Richard to get to 150 contributors and how closely he works with the Envoy team. [00:08:57 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=537)] Find out the “golden rules” to build a successful open source company or project, and things you must do from the very beginning to keep the project interesting to the community and to get it out and reach out to those achievements. [00:10:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=653)] Richard explains to us about having a business on top of an open source, the success with open source, where he draws the line between the paid and the free, and all the ecosystems around it. [00:13:32 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=812)] Justin mentions that overall what Richard is doing for the Cloud Native ecosystem seems to be helping a lot of companies that could turn into monthly recurring revenue or whatever packages he sells and wonders if this is happening. [00:15:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=930)] Richard tells us about his experience at Red Hat and why he moved on to becoming an entrepreneur. He also tells us he is hiring at Ambassador Labs. [00:18:05 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1085)] Learn where Richard was in his career that got him into The O’Reilly Velocity Conference back in the days. [00:19:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1170)] Richard tells us the process he went through starting his company, what his first product was, and the first thing he was working on. He also elaborates on Telepresence and how it has changed the development life cycle. [00:24:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1487)] With Richard’s awesome education background, Justin wonders what he did at MIT. [00:25:52 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1552)] Tzury asks Richard to explain what Argo is. [00:27:47 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1667)] Richard tells us the first product he released under Datawire, which is today, Ambassador Labs. Also, he explains what goes into the API Gateway, what he thinks should go into the Proxy, into the Envoy, and what type of functionality he would keep out of the API Gateway. [00:31:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1911)] Richard gives us his take on how the nature of software development has changed with Kubernetes being in the cloud. [00:34:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=2088)] Learn where Richard sees Ambassador Labs in five years. [00:35:45 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=2145)] Find out Curiefense updates for the week. Quotes [00:02:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=120)] “So, we ended up basically just using instant domain search and just typing in random things, and we ended up with Datawire, and it was a Black Friday sale, it was five bucks!” [00:02:16 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=136)] “The reason we called it Ambassador API Gateway was because it was built on Envoy and an Envoy Proxy, an Envoy in the U.S. Department of State Hierarchy actually reports to an Ambassador, so Ambassadors are at a higher-level Envoy.” [00:02:54 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=174)] “And the CNCF says, well, in order to donate the technology, we need to take your trademark, which is Ambassador, and we said, well, but that’s the name of our company, and they said, well, the only thing you can do is to rename it.” [00:07:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=424)] “And if you’ve ever tried to use Envoy Proxy on its own and then try to use, deploy it on much less deployed on Kubernetes, you would realize, oh, this is actually quite complicated.” [00:09:28 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=568)] “Especially if you’re a startup, I think the two areas I would focus on is making it easy to install and use, and then two, sort of correlated to that, is to have good documentation.” [00:10:42 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=642)] “Everyone loves Istio until they try to upgrade it in production at which point they realize it’s actually terrifying.” [00:11:09 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=669)] “My opinion is my next company is I’m not going to do an open source company because you really have to figure out two different kinds of products and that’s twice as much work as a regular kind of company.” [00:22:08 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1328)] “I think one of the things is that what developers discover is that when they start developing a microservices-based application on Kubernetes, life gets very complicated.” [00:26:35 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1595)] “And so, we’re big fans of Argo and we’ve actually integrated Argo with our API Gateway so that you can do something like I have a new version two to replace version one of my software." [00:29:48 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1788)] “I think the thing that we’ve seen people run into trouble with is when people start to put too much business logic into the API Gateway.” [00:31:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1919)] “I think with Kubernetes itself, I think the key difference is that the nature of software development has actually changed in a very fundamental way.” [00:32:36 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=1956)] “So, I like to say a full stack developer now is a full lifecycle developer.” [00:34:23 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/7?t=2063)] “You could argue that Kubernetes has accelerated productivity in some dimension, like the last mile soft delivery, clearly Cloud beats CD ROMs any day of the week.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) Cloud Native Community Groups-Curifense (https://community.cncf.io/curiefense/) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Tzury Bar Yochay Twitter (https://twitter.com/tzury?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Li Twitter (https://twitter.com/rdli) Richard Li Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardli/) “CNCF Adopts Ambassador’s API Gateway, Emissary Ingress” by Mike Melanson (The New Stack) (https://thenewstack.io/cncf-adopts-ambassadors-api-gateway-emissary-ingress/) Datawire-GitHub (https://github.com/datawire) Ambassador Labs (https://blog.getambassador.io/) KubeCon 2021 (https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-europe/) “No one wants to manage Kubernetes anymore” by Scott Carey (InfoWorld) (https://www.infoworld.com/article/3614850/no-one-wants-to-manage-kubernetes-anymore.html) Argo (https://argoproj.github.io/argo-workflows/) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Richard Li.

Sponsored by Reblaze, creators of Curiefense Panelists Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Mike Sparr Staff Cloud Architect at DoiT International Show Notes Hello and welcome to Committing to Cloud Native Podcast! It’s the podcast by Reblaze where we talk about open source maintainers, contributors, sustainers, and their experiences in the cloud native space. On today’s episode, we are super excited to have as our guest, Mike Sparr, who is a Staff Cloud Architect at DoiT International. Mike shares awesome stories about how he started programming at the age of ten, his journey of getting to where he is today with DoiT International, how DoiT International is different than other companies, and what DoiT does in terms of open source. Find out what Mike’s recipe for success is, what he’s most excited about right now, and the voids in the industry he thinks he could fill. Download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:07 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=67)] Justin shares Curiefense updates. [00:02:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=130)] Mike shares a story with us about how he started programming at the age of ten on a Tandy TRS-80. [00:03:10 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=190)] We learn Mike’s journey and how he ended up at DoiT International. [00:10:00 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=600)] Mike tells us what part of Kubernetes he’s working on, how DoiT is involved, and we learn more about the Founder of DoiT, Vadim Solovey. [00:12:13 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=733)] Mike explains what ProdOps is. [00:14:51 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=891)] Richard wonders how Mike optimizes machine learning for his clients and how is DoiT International different than other people in this space in this field. He also tells us about Kaggle. [00:19:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1170)] Find out what DoiT is doing in terms of open source. Also, Mike tells us about two open source tools, Kube No Trouble and Iris. [00:25:41 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1541)] We learn Mike’s recipe for success. [00:27:04 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1624)] Mike explains their ‘R&D time’ which is similar to Google’s ‘20% time.’ [00:30:26 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1826)] Find out what’s next for Mike and what he’s super excited about right now. We also learn about the “voids” he mentions. [00:34:30 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=2070)] Mike tells us where you can follow him and learn more about what he’s doing. Quotes [00:19:53 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1193)] “So, in order to do that, our founders have had to leverage open source technology and give back to open source.” [00:24:14 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1454)] “Well, the need for security in today’s age, especially as people are going more remote, is only going to increase. So, I think you guys are very well positioned for kind of the wave ahead.” [00:25:39 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1539)] “I would say, for me what’s always been I guess my recipe for success with working with engineers is being an engineer myself.” [00:28:03 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1683)] “Another third is cloud support, and so when customers request help on the cloud, our team essentially acts like stack overflow.” [00:31:59 (https://podcast.curiefense.io/6?t=1919)] “Well, my theory, like I said, my theory is, in the future healthcare and security are going to be the big frontiers. The other, as you guys mentioned is AI and ML.” Links Curiefense (https://www.curiefense.io/) Curiefense Twitter (https://twitter.com/curiefense?lang=en) community@curiefense.io (mailto:community@curiefense.io) Reblaze (https://www.reblaze.com/) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) 1.4.0 Roadmap Curiefense-GitHub (https://github.com/curiefense/curiefense/milestone/3) Mike Sparr Twitter (https://twitter.com/mikesparr) Mike Sparr Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikesparr/) DoiT International (https://www.doit-intl.com/) DoiT International Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/company/doitintl?trk=public_profile_topcard-current-company) DoiT International Blog (https://blog.doit-intl.com/) Cloud Native Ambassadors (CNAs) (https://www.cncf.io/people/ambassadors/) Kaggle (https://www.kaggle.com/) Kube No Trouble-GitHub (https://github.com/doitintl/kube-no-trouble) Iris-GitHub (https://github.com/doitintl/iris) DoiT International-GitHub (https://github.com/doitintl) Vadim Solovey Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vadimska) Demystifying Machine Learning by Building an ML Pipeline (Part 1) by Mike Sparr (https://blog.doit-intl.com/demystifying-machine-learning-by-building-an-ml-pipeline-part-1-43fc30eba242) Demystifying Machine Learning by Building an ML Pipeline (Part 2) by Mike Sparr (https://blog.doit-intl.com/demystifying-machine-learning-by-building-an-ml-pipeline-part-2-dfd9ce786088) Credits Executive Produced by Tzury Bar Yochay (https://twitter.com/tzury) Produced by Justin Dorfman (https://www.justindorfman.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Mike Sparr.