Five and Nine: Tarot, Work and Economic Justice

Season 5 returns with a conversation between the Five and Nine co-founders, long-time collaborators, and friends, Xiaowei, AX, and Dorothy. While AX was in Jordan for Season 4, Xiaowei and Dorothy were in their metaphorical caves completing their dissertations and transitioning out of one academic realm into another while balancing commitments and obligations, but we survived and have become Dr. Xiaowei Wang and Dr. Dorothy R. Santos!This season, we ask our guests about generation(s) and not only in terms of silos (e.g., Gen X, Gen Z, Millenials, etc.), but about what it means to view generation as a verb and how we might think of building from crisis and ruins of ideologies and beliefs that no longer collectively serve us. In this episode, we talk about love, grief and what it means to be fully oneself.The deck used in Season 5 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is written, composed, and performed by Anna Luisa Petrisko.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — around the new moon and full moon — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. Learn more at thisisfiveandnine.com This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Season 5 returns with a conversation between the Five and Nine co-founders, long-time collaborators, and friends, Xiaowei, AX, and Dorothy. While AX was in Jordan for Season 4, Xiaowei and Dorothy were in their metaphorical caves completing their dissertations and transitioning out of one academic realm into another while balancing commitments and obligations, but we survived and have become Dr. Xiaowei Wang and Dr. Dorothy R. Santos!This season, we ask our guests about generation(s) and not only in terms of silos (e.g., Gen X, Gen Z, Millenials, etc.), but about what it means to view generation as a verb and how we might think of building from crisis and ruins of ideologies and beliefs that no longer collectively serve us. In this episode, we talk about love, grief and what it means to be fully oneself.The deck used in Season 5 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is written, composed, and performed by Anna Luisa Petrisko.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — around the new moon and full moon — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. Learn more at thisisfiveandnine.com This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

For the Season 4 finale, we break out a new format: Desert Residency Discs, inspired by the popular BBC show Desert Island Discs. We listen to music recorded on location in the Wadi Rum Desert, and we talk about some of the major themes from the residency, including crisis, bearing witness, why sound and music hold us through difficult moments, and how to be present, whatever the circumstances. We close with a tarot reading that builds on our reflections around the elements of air, water and fire. Also: tune in as we learn to sing like camels.Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq, Nour Batyne and Britt Pham, recorded live in Wadi Rum.Tarot Cards in This EpisodeThe cards discussed are The Tower, Six of Cups and Two of Wands. The deck used in this episode is the Mixed Signals Tarot deck designed by M Eifler.Images of the cards are available at thisisfiveandnine.com.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design studio at the intersection of healing and justice work, connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Introducing Five and Nine Live!Following up on Episode 4.07. Awakening the Healer, we present our very first live podcast recording — a special episode for Season 4 recorded live at the Center for the Enlightenment Arts in Bushwick, Brooklyn, at Gathering Future Ancestors: a meditative experience of immersive storytelling, participatory art, and sound — exploring water as an entryway to our shared humanity.In this discussion, host AX Mina and guest Helen Banach talk about multihyphenate life, the practice of healing and the difference between holding space and holding pain. They close with a tarot reading for the collective using the Mixed Signals Tarot deck designed by M Eifler, with insights on how to navigate grief, cultivate care and tend to the fire within all of us to build differently in this time of deep crisis.The Season 4 finale will be coming out in the next few weeks. In the meantime, check out our most recent episodes with the 2023 residents of One of Many Studio’s Wadi Rum residency:* Azad's Kite: Art in a Time of Crisis* Learning to Trust the Gut* It's More Clear at the Bottom* PLUS a bonus minisode of our Embodied Water PracticeTarot Cards Discussed* Five of Cups* Seven of Cups* Eight of Wands* Queen of Swords (aka Maker of Swords in the Mixed Signals Deck)Images of the cards are available at thisisfiveandnine.com.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design studio at the intersection of healing and justice work. We envision a movement of Future Ancestors built through transformative, intentionally curated experiences. Connect with OoM on Substack.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

“I was always the busy one,” says our guest Hana of her life before COVID lockdowns. In this final interview of Season 4, we talk about the power of being by oneself, how it feels to jump back into a familiar line of work, and the importance of intuition. We look at present-day Petra, the famous city of stone nestled in southern Jordan, and we close with a tarot reading that captures the essence of acceptance in the face of change. Also: remembering to look up.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq, recorded live in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design studio at the intersection of healing and justice work. We envision a movement of Future Ancestors built through transformative, intentionally curated experiences.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Symbolic language is at the heart of magic and also at the heart of human expression. In this minisode, Five and Nine joins Adelle Lin, an artist and technologist who explores the poetry of water and the Arabic, Chinese and Hebrew languages in the desert. We talk about time, displacement, and what it feels like to roll a 160 foot scroll down the side of a hill. Also: Ana offers a reflection on deep time and where water comes from.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM).Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq, recorded live in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. OoM works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

This is Five and Nine, a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We’re in the midst of Season 4, recorded online and on location in the Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, but we wanted to take a brief look back at Season 3 with a “retro” episode with One of Many co-founder Nour Batyne.Futures thinker, artist and creative producer Nour Batyne reminds us to slow down to the speed of presence. The future is not just space travel and new technology but the legacy we leave as future ancestors. We'll hear from Nour how she decided to make the leap from the nine to five life into starting her own studio, and we'll learn about the influence of her teita, or grandmother, on her life and practice, and why land acknowledgements are so important.Nour offers a meditation that helps us face the climate crisis by honoring our interconnectedness, and we'll hear her and her cousin sing an Arabic Galilean folk song in honor of her grandmother. Also: why the smell of jasmine means freedom.Season 3’s focus was about rest. In a time of extended crisis, permacrisis and polycrisis, taking time to decompress is not just a benefit but a necessity. Learning to slow down, reflect and make space for expansive thinking is part of what makes rest so sweet but also so elusive. Grab a blanket, turn down the lights, and turn up Five and Nine this season to hear new perspectives on the age old practice of reflection, rejuvenation and recovery.About Our Guest* One of Many Studio, co-founded by Nour Batyne and Britt Pham* Wadi Rum ResidencyTarot Cards Discussed* Two of SwordsResources* Umm Kulthum* Levina Li* Seven Generation PrincipleMusic* Episode: That soothing serenade (Was just written for me), composed by Harry De Costa and performed by Henry Burr, 1918.* Closing: يما مويل الهوا (Yamma Mweil Al Hawa), performed by Nour Batyne and Bushra Batyne at Bars for Thought, an open mic poetry night in Brooklyn, 2023. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

It’s the still of winter here in the northern hemisphere as the solstice arrives, and we just have a few more episodes of Season 4 left.In this bonus minisode, Season 4 co-hosts Britt Pham and Nour Batyne of One of Many Studio offer a meditation that helps us face the climate crisis by honoring our interconnectedness.“We are gathering among unceded waters,” they offer. “These waters hold the legacy and the souls of ancestors who stewarded them with humanity in the face of violence and inhumanity. We honor them.”Related episodes:* 🌚 3.04. Transformation in Slowing Down, with Nour Batyne* 🌚 Bonus Episode: A Meditation for Aliveness, by Britt PhamSeason 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. OoM works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

What does it feel like to awaken to a new calling? Artist, art producer, and art historian Helen Banach sits down with us to talk about embodying these multiple labels alongside her newest one — healer. We travel to March 2020, when she became a full-time caregiver just as lockdowns began, and we discuss the multihyphenate life, making mistakes and embodiment. A tarot reading takes us back generations, with a message from Helen’s ancestors. Also: we get a visit from camels, birds and even a few buzzing flies.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season on location, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us.The deck used in Season 4 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq and recorded on location in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Following up on Episode 4.06. The Turtles and the Stars: An Interview with AX Mina ✨🐢✨🐢, we present a talk from Five and Nine’s AX Mina about magic and pluralistic futures, given earlier this year at re:publica in Berlin. Mina examines the use of the word “magic” in technology and rise of the technological sublime during the Industrial Revolution, and she explores a more expansive, pluralistic view of our future, grounded in ancient wisdom traditions and not a small amount of the magical and mystical.When we think of the future, we think of magical technologies like flying cars, talking robots and contact with far-away planets. In this view, the only way out of our current crises is through new technologies. But what if our visions of what’s next were informed by a more expansive sense of magic — interconnection, care, responsibility and personal transformation?Republished courtesy permission from re:publica. Full video available at thisisfiveandnine.com, which has a link to the YouTube video. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

In this minisode, One of Many Studio’s Britt Pham and Nour Batyne interview a familiar voice — AX Mina (Ana), your host for Season 4 and a co-founder at Five and Nine. They discuss the meaning of stars, the many jackets we wear in our professional lives, definitions of magic, and the Buddhist concept of precious birth. As night descends on the desert, we look back on the Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction of 2020 and what we learned in the quiet of lockdown. Also: Aja Monet’s newest album.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM).Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq. The music was recorded live in Wadi Rum.References* Comfortable with Uncertainty, by Pema Chodron* when the poems do what they do, by Aja MonetSeason 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

In this minisode, Five and Nine joins Azad, an artist, healer and “forever cheerleader,” who’s working on a kite to fly in the desert winds of Wadi Rum. We tune in to the element of air in particular, an important one in tarot, which shows up in both the cards we draw and in the environment around us. We travel back in time to the quiet, haunting streets of New York City early in the pandemic, discuss the value of rest, and the explore the role of the arts in times of crisis.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM).Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq. Both the music and the kite flying audio were recorded live in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

When it feels like everything is lost, how do we find guidance? In this incredibly difficult and painful week, we’ve been seeking wisdom, prayer and spiritual guidance. As we get ready to return to Season 4, we wanted to take a step back with a “retro” episode, pulling from our archives from Season 2.In this episode, Five and Nine talks with Angela Mictlanxochitl Anderson Guerrero, who runs Lideramos, a Latino leadership organization in the US, and who is a practicing abuela, or grandmother, in the Danza de la Luna lineage, a transterritorial Mexica ceremonial practice.Angela Mictlanxochitl talks about the four components of her thoughtful engagement framework—intention, responsibility, reciprocity and care—, the role of prayer and spirituality in leadership, being authentic in the workplace and how we care for our physical, psychological and emotional health. She closes with a sound and prayer offering in collaboration with artist Enrique Arriaga Celis.ResourcesFrom Our Guest* Angela’s bio on Lideramos* Bless Me, Ultima, by Rudolfo Anaya* Gloria Evangelina AnzaldúaTarot Cards Discussed* The Tower* The Lovers* Next World Tarot, by Cristy C. RoadPrayer Text(audio developed in collaboration with Enrique Arriaga Celis)As I hold my round obsidian mirror, the black magic mirror.My fingers are around the edges. I lift up the black mirror to my face. As I look into the mirror, I see the reflection of my face in the mirror. I feel myself.I invite each of you to look back via the other side into the black magic mirror.  Close your eyes and feel -- sense the darkness of the condition of possibility. With the permission of Nana Metzli, our Moon,  with the permission of Tonantzin, our Mother, with the permission of the cosmic energies,  and the permission of Tonatiuh, the Sun.I ask all the directions to invoke the loving energy of this sacred space we occupy to activate the black magic mirror.May we feel embraced in its stillness wherever you may be, and however you may be. May you honor your thoughts. May you honor your insecurities. May you honor the genius of all the movements in your life.In the beauty and the tragedy of our relations, I ask that you are shown the depth of your love. I ask the reflective black light to shine on each of you.As you feel it tingle, ask yourself, “Who am I and who do I wanna be?”Listen. Listen. Listen to yourself. Claim your sacredness, embrace your medicine to heal, and trust in your unique value and gifts. Now listen and repeat: My path is open. I am guided by my ancestors. The magic of the elements and the sacredness of life wants me to survive. My reflection is my life force. I dance with the weaving of life so I may come into union with the person I am. Listen. Listen. Listen to yourself. As we close, black magic mirror, Please shower the you in me and the me in you with love and kindness. In the light of the black magic mirror, I am you and you are me, We are never alone. With heart over our heads.Walk with confidence in the black light. Ometeotl.Music* Episode: Oh for the wings of a dove, performed by Geraldine Farrar in 1911 and composed by Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy.* Outro: Ain’t we got fun, composed by Richard A. Whiting and performed by the Benson Orchestra of Chicago, 1921. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

We’re going on vacation here at Five and Nine, and before we do, we wanted to share an offering in the form of a bonus episode.“Just notice what’s alive in your body today.” These wise words will guide you in this beautiful meditation from Britt Pham, co-founder at One of Many Studio. It’s the opening to a conversation that we’ll be publishing in September, when we continue Season 4.We hope you have a restful and restorative summer in the northern hemisphere.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season on location, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

In this minisode, Five and Nine joins One of Many Studio’s Nour Batyne and Britt Pham to sit in on a Bedouin coffee ceremony. Sipping from their cups around the virtual campfire, we talk about the magic, work and economic justice of the little bean we call coffee, whose roots extend to the Rift Valley and whose impact goes as far afield as Vietnam and Brazil. And with every gulp comes a long story of capital, colonialism and ceremony — and maybe a little space for future telling too. Also: stay till the end for a special announcement about a new futures workshop from Five and Nine and One of Many.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.References* The Invention of Hydration by Slate’s Decoder Ring.New Workshop: The Embodied Futures LabIn a time of significant change and re-emergence in our communities, we need restorative spaces for reimagining futures more than ever. Embodied Futures Lab is a special online experience facilitated by Five and Nine Futures and One of Many Studio. We integrate yin yoga, sound meditation, guided writing, and intentional connection to create space for slowing down and reinvigorating the creativity & inspiration that fuels organizing, justice, and culture work. Learn more at thisisfiveandnine.com.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

What does it mean to live through a crisis? Season 4 continues in the heat of day, when the desert falls to silence.Writer and artist Cher-Wen DeWitt talks about her many careers, the allure of other people’s problems, and the changing nature of philanthropy. Along the way, we travel back to the early days of 2020 and discuss burnout and finding the fire again with the tools of creative practice. Also: why hell is other people’s cooking knives.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season on location, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us.The deck used in Season 4 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq and recorded on location in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

What waters do you come from? Why is Season 4 set in Wadi Rum? And what does it mean to be a future ancestor? In this minisode, we sit down with One of Many Studio (OoM) co-founders Nour Batyne and Britt Pham to learn more about their ambitious vision: to create the greatest cultural shift of our generation by transforming the way people relate to themselves, each other, and our legacies through the elevation of critical conversations.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). Music is performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq and recorded live in Wadi Rum.Stay tuned for Episode 2 in the coming weeks. Subscribe at thisisfiveandnine.com and on Apple, Spotify, Google and Instagram. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Season 4 starts off with a desert quest: find the Lovers Cave, a special cave in Wadi Rum fabled to heal relationship ills. We join photographer Farah Foudeh, whose photo illustrates this podcast, in her yellow Jeep for an off-road drive around the desert to find the perfect spot for a tarot reading. Our discussion looks at global tourism, how images shape and define our understanding of different regions of the world, and what it means to travel today. Also: two little birds come to visit.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season on location, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us.The deck used in Season 4 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq and recorded on location in Wadi Rum.Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Happy Solstice, everyone.Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first field studio season, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM).We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us. We talk global tourism, the quiet of the pandemic, the art of healing, and the world of international development.Five and Nine is pleased to present this season with OoM, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. Stay tuned for Episode 1 in the coming weeks. Subscribe at thisisfiveandnine.com and on Apple, Spotify, Google and Instagram.Enjoying the show? You can support us in three ways:* Become a paid subscriber now for just $6 per month and get access to our paid programming. This podcast is always free, but paid subscribers will get access to special content, like discounts on our classes with The Shipman Agency, free listens of our standalone meditations, and a monthly tarotscope we produce in partnership with Ignota Books.* Recommend this show to others. Do you know anyone who you think might enjoy this podcast? Send them a link. Ask them to tune in. You can send them snippets of our shows on Instagram, at @fiveandnine_podcast.* Leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Reviews help bring visibility and credibility to indie podcasts like ours and help people know what to expect when tuning in. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

A month ago, artist and creative technologist M Eifler was laid off from their job, one of nearly 200,000 layoffs this year alone. M discusses the uncertainty and anxiety they’ve experienced since the layoff and shares how they have been using art and LinkedIn to document their journey. From ritual to song to visualizing the experience of stress, they share wisdom on navigating the ups and downs—while also finding a new path forward.M is the creator of Art School From Bed, an online series that explores how technology can be used to solve problems around disability. They discuss their work in disability and access, including their role as a lay leader in a Jewish community in San Francisco. The episode ends with a tarot reading using their very own deck, the Mixed Signals Deck, and we close with an offering from M on the theme of rest, which feels particularly relevant given the new moon, solar eclipse, and Mercury Retrograde cycle happening at the time of recording.Season 3 is all about rest. In a time of extended crisis, permacrisis and polycrisis, taking time to decompress is not just a benefit but a necessity. Learning to slow down, reflect and make space for expansive thinking is part of what makes rest so sweet but also so elusive. Grab a blanket, turn down the lights, and turn up Five and Nine this season to hear new perspectives on the age old practice of reflection, rejuvenation and recovery.As an experiment, we generated this summary using ChatGPT and then edited it heavily.ResourcesAbout Our Guest* BlinkPopShift* Art School from BedTarot Cards Discussed* High Priestess* Three of Wands* Maker of Stones (aka Queen of Pentacles)Resources* The Upside of Stress, by Kelly McGonigal* Mixed Signals Tarot DeckMusic* Episode: Golden Dreams (Mazurka), performed by Chris Chapman, 1907. This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe