Org Design Podcast

Live from Milan at the European Organization Design Forum (EODF), Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Anissa Oukhiar — EODF Chair, trustee, and host of Brown, Brainy and Beautiful. Anissa shares her unconventional journey into org design, from a multi-disciplinary academic path to finding her place in a collaborative consultancy, and ultimately leading a diverse, values-driven community. She explains why EODF is the “hippies” of the org design world, what makes its conferences so unique, and how the community’s spirit fosters both inclusion and innovation. This conversation dives into: • The power of pulling yourself into leadership roles rather than planning them • Why representation matters without tokenism • Anissa’s top three organizational symptoms that demand design intervention • The “physiotherapist” analogy for explaining org design to anyone — even a 10-year-old • How to get buy-in and navigate ambiguity without losing the human touch Whether you’re an org design veteran or just exploring the field, this episode offers both inspiration and practical wisdom from one of its most vibrant leaders. Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ European Organisation Design Forum https://eodf.eu/ org design, EODF, Anissa Oukhiar, organizational behavior, collaborative work, community engagement, European Organization Design Forum, podcast, leadership, strategic alignment, organizational change, personal development, mentorship, networking, sustainable practices

In this episode, Amy Springer and Tim Brewer are joined by Josh Epperson, Senior Manager of Organizational Development at Amazon. Josh shares a refreshingly honest, thought-provoking journey from play-based therapy with children to shaping strategy, structure, and systems at one of the world’s largest companies. This conversation explores how org design is evolving in an AI-infused world—why the org chart is no longer enough, how agentic AI changes workforce strategy, and what leaders should be measuring (but often aren’t). Josh reveals practical frameworks like Fit to Purpose and Fit to Deliver, explains why most org design efforts are reactive (and broken), and challenges us to design ourselves out of a job before AI does it for us. Whether you’re an org design pro or a founder navigating scale, this is your blueprint for designing resilient, high-performing organizations. Josh Epperson https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshepperson/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this candid and compelling episode of the Org Design Podcast, recorded live at the Festival of Org Design 2024, hosts Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Haris Ahmed, founder of Pragmatium Consulting Group, to uncover three decades of wisdom in organizational transformation. Haris shares how he stumbled into org design during the Y2K era and evolved into a strategic advisor trusted by mid-market powerhouses and ambitious startups alike. From diagnosing dysfunction to architecting adaptive systems, Haris explains why getting the strategy-structure-capability triangle right is crucial—especially when the market moves faster than your 5-year plan. This episode is packed with practical advice for founders, leaders, and change agents—from identifying cultural silos to unlocking high-performance through clear leadership dynamics. Haris also reveals the surprising power of crucial conversations, the value of external perspectives, and why org design is no longer a luxury—it’s a leadership imperative. Haris Ahmed https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisahmedusa/ https://pragmatiumconsulting.com/ The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

What if the real problem in your organization isn’t your people—but your structure? In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Erika Jacobi, Ph.D., Founder and MD of LC Global Consulting, joins Amy Springer and Damian Bramanis to unpack why structure drives behavior—and how most organizations are solving symptoms, not root causes. Erika shares insights from 20+ years in organizational development, explaining: • Why coaching and training often fail without systemic design • How to spot when your organization’s structure is the real issue • The critical breaking points in company growth—from 2 to 200,000 people • Why adaptability and stability are not opposites in modern orgs • How visionary CEOs can accidentally create chaos (and what to do about it) Packed with clarity, candor, and a systems-thinking lens, Erika invites leaders to move from reactive reorgs to thoughtful, adaptive design—starting with their own thinking. 🎧 Whether you’re a founder at 5 employees or an exec at 50,000—this conversation will reshape how you think about scale, culture, and sustainable growth. Erika Jacobi https://www.linkedin.com/in/erika-jacobi-ph-d-b5261611/ https://www.lc-global.com/ The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this episode recorded live at EODF 2024 in Milan, we sit down with David Plink, CEO of the Top Employers Institute, for a raw and inspiring conversation on what it really takes to lead lasting organizational change. Hosted by Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis, David reflects on his 16-year journey leading a global certification body across 30+ nationalities—from recovering after a life-changing illness to transforming a near-bankrupt company into a purpose-driven global movement. He shares candid stories and hard-won insights, including: ⚖️ Three essential dilemmas every leader faces in org design: 1. People follow strategy vs. People first 2. Big bang vs. Slow burn change 3. Soft approach vs. Ripping off the bandaid 🌍 Why purpose and people development are non-negotiables in modern leadership 💬 How clear communication and embracing uncertainty build safety for change 🧭 Why “clarity is kindness” and sometimes the bravest choice is the hardest one This episode is a masterclass in empathetic leadership, adaptive strategy, and organizational courage. Whether you’re a CEO, HR leader, or change agent—this one will stay with you. 🎧 Listen now to rethink how you lead through complexity. Functionly www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Top Employers Institute https://www.top-employers.com/us/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/topemployersinstitute/

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Amy Springer and Tim Brewer welcome Ariana Poirier, a seasoned Change Strategist and consultant. Ariana shares her journey into the world of organizational design, emphasizing the importance of understanding and managing change within organizations. She discusses the challenges leaders face when implementing change, including the psychological barriers that individuals encounter. The conversation highlights the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership and the necessity of strategic planning in change management initiatives. Ariana also offers practical advice for leaders to assess engagement within their teams, fostering a culture of agility and adaptability. With insights drawn from her extensive experience, Ariana provides listeners with valuable tools and frameworks to navigate change effectively, ultimately enhancing organizational performance and employee engagement. Tune in to discover how leaders can cultivate a healthy change culture and drive meaningful transformation within their organizations. Ariana Poirer https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianapoirier/ Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Amy Springer and Damian chatted with Lisa Taylor from Taylor Stein Consulting (L.T. Consulting), who shares her unexpected journey into the world of organizational design. Starting with a background in music and a series of adventures that led her to teach English in Taiwan, Lisa discusses her transition from performing arts to human capital and organizational consulting. Throughout the conversation, she emphasizes the importance of focusing on people and behavior change within organizations, rather than solely on processes. Lisa recounts her experiences working at various firms, including Deloitte, where she found fulfillment in collaborating with clients to address challenges and improve organizational structures. She highlights the significance of conducting thorough diagnostics to understand organizational culture and the different experiences of leadership versus the workforce. The episode explores critical themes such as the need for alignment within leadership teams, the challenges of remote work, and the future of organizational design in a rapidly changing environment. Listeners will gain insights into the importance of curiosity, open-mindedness, and collaboration in effective organizational design, along with practical advice for leaders seeking to navigate the complexities of organizational change. Tune in to understand how Lisa's unique perspective and experiences can inform and inspire your approach to building healthier organizations. 00:00 Lisa Taylor Introduction 00:20 Lisa's Accidental Journey into Org Design 01:40 The Shift from Music to HR 02:55 Realization about Organizational Change 04:05 Importance of People in Process Improvement 05:34 Collaboration with Clients 06:50 Starting the Diagnostic Process 08:15 Engaging Leaders in Org Design 09:35 Assessing Team Alignment 10:22 Skills Leaders Should Develop 11:58 Recognizing Red Flags in Organizations 13:13 Future of Org Design After COVID 14:51 Training the Next Generation of Org Designers 15:01 Conclusion and Further Contact Information The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ LT consulting/ Taylor Stein Consulting https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-taylor-dc/ Organization Design Forum https://organizationdesignforum.org/

In this **bonus** episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Amy Springer welcomes James Davis from The TSP Advisory to discuss the evolving roles and responsibilities within the Technology Services industry. James shares insights on the transformation of Managed Services Providers (MSPs), Systems Integrators (SIs), and Value Added Resellers (VARs) as they adapt to new business models and client needs. He emphasizes the importance of organizational design in navigating growth challenges and optimizing team structures. The conversation highlights the distinct characteristics of each model, the necessity for clear roles and responsibilities, and the financial metrics that guide successful operations. James also addresses common pain points that organizations face during periods of change and the value of a strategic, top-down approach to org design. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on how to foster a healthy organizational culture by aligning team structures with business objectives, ultimately leading to improved performance and profitability. Tune in for practical advice and thought-provoking discussions on the future of organizational design in the TSP industry. The TSP Advisory https://thetspadvisory.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@UCnUB-fI2ePSlLCwpLaalNUg https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/the-tsp-advisory/ https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tsp-advice/id1804239948 https://www.linkedin.com/company/thetspadvisory/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast https://open.spotify.com/show/0Xw3bbEISDbSDO5WT8O7bu?si=1b35ee795fa84531 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/org-design-podcast/id1501527726

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Tim Brewer and Amy Springer welcome Andreas Wenger, a partner at Transforma Consulting, to discuss the intricacies of organizational design. Andreas shares his journey into the field, highlighting how his academic background in organization science laid the foundation for his practical consulting experience. He emphasizes the critical importance of aligning organizational structures with the evolving needs of clients, particularly in complex environments. Andreas recounts a compelling case study involving a care institution that successfully transformed its organizational structure to better serve its changing demographic, navigating the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic. He illustrates how effective organization design can empower teams at all levels, enabling them to make decisions closer to the operational front lines. The conversation also delves into the common pitfalls of poor organizational design, the need for leaders to develop conviction around change initiatives, and the vital role of time in implementing successful transformations. Andreas encourages leaders to view organization as more than just charts and structures, advocating for a holistic approach that fosters collaboration and innovation. Join us for this insightful discussion on how to build resilient organizations and navigate the complexities of change.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis welcome Liz Ferguson from Wiley's research publishing group. Liz shares her journey into organizational design, which began unexpectedly as she took on a new leadership role managing a large team. Faced with the challenge of restructuring to better align with industry changes, she sought external expertise to guide the process. Liz discusses the importance of understanding the unique needs of her organization and how collaborative workshops helped identify inefficiencies and opportunities for improvement. Throughout the conversation, Liz emphasizes the value of being open-minded as a leader and involving team members in the change process. She reflects on the challenges of balancing strategy with the human side of organizational change, advocating for gradual engagement over abrupt transitions. This episode highlights the continuous evolution of organizations and the need for leaders to adapt their structures to meet changing market demands.

Send us a textIn this episode of the Org Design Podcast, we sit down with Carlos Valdes-Dapena, a seasoned expert in organizational design and development. Carlos shares his insights on the evolving nature of organizational structures, the importance of adaptability in leadership, and the human aspects of organizational change.Carlos discusses the shift from traditional hierarchical structures to more responsive and adaptive organizational models. He emphasizes the need for leaders to let go of outdated control paradigms and embrace a more flexible approach to management. The conversation touches on the challenges of change, both for organizations and individuals, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in today's rapidly evolving business landscape.Key points from the episode:The transition from control-based to responsive organizational structuresThe importance of adaptability and "letting go" for leaders in modern organizationsThe human challenges in organizational change and the need for continuous learningInsights into the Organization Design Forum (ODF) and its role in the field of organizational designThe broad scope of organizational design, encompassing various aspects of how human systems operate in workplacesThis episode offers valuable insights for leaders, managers, and anyone interested in improving organizational effectiveness and navigating the complexities of modern business environments.Support the show

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Tim Brewer welcomes Herman Vantrappen, a seasoned management consultant and author, to discuss the intricacies of organizational design. Herman shares his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences in management consulting at Arthur D. Little. He emphasizes the importance of having a comprehensive framework for organizational design that allows for nuanced debates among executives, as well as the need for leaders to take ownership of redesign processes. Herman highlights the common pitfalls in organizational design, such as design faults that lead to unnecessary tensions and conflicts within organizations. He explains how these tensions often escalate to the CEO, diverting their attention from strategic leadership to operational issues. Herman advocates for a more robust approach to organizational design that not only addresses current challenges but also fosters an environment that minimizes friction and enhances agility. Throughout the conversation, Herman discusses the core themes of his recent book, "The Organization Design Guide," co-authored with Frederic Wirtz, which aims to provide leaders with the tools and insights needed to navigate the complexities of organizational change successfully. The episode is packed with practical advice for CEOs and managers looking to improve their organization's design and effectiveness. Join us for an insightful discussion that challenges conventional thinking about leadership and organizational structure, encouraging leaders to consider the broader implications of their design choices on overall organizational health.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Tim Brewer and Amy Springer welcome Abby Allen, an organizational development practitioner with over 20 years of experience. Abby shares her insights on the evolving nature of organizational design, emphasizing the importance of understanding both people and systems in order to foster effective collaboration within organizations. The discussion covers the impact of artificial intelligence on organizational structures, the challenges of leading large organizations, and the necessity of having a systems-oriented approach to solve complex problems. Abby highlights the significance of asking the right questions to uncover underlying issues within organizations, rather than merely focusing on surface-level solutions. She encourages leaders to embrace collaboration, not just as a function, but as a culture within their teams. Throughout the conversation, Abby shares practical advice for those looking to build organizational design capabilities within their companies, stressing the need for an open-minded and generative approach to leadership. Tune in to gain valuable insights on navigating the challenges of organizational design in today's fast-paced environment and learn how to create healthier, more adaptable organizations.

In this insightful episode of the Org Design Podcast, Amy Springer and Rory Mustan from Functionly are joined by Nicole Gee from Geenius Consulting to explore the nuanced journey of organizational design. Nicole candidly shares her early struggles in org design, emphasizing the pivotal role of confidence and clarity. She highlights that successful organizational change requires leaders to deeply understand the strategic 'why' behind decisions and thoughtfully manage the emotional impacts on their teams. Listeners will gain valuable insights on: How Nicole overcame initial setbacks by embracing continuous learning and feedback. The critical balance between strategy and empathy, ensuring that people are always central to org design. Practical steps for leaders to confidently and transparently guide their teams through complex changes. The importance of clearly articulating challenges, required capabilities, and roles early in the process. Why active listening and informal conversations can be powerful tools for leaders anticipating organizational shifts. This episode emphasizes that effective org design goes beyond structural changes—it's about building confidence, clarity, and genuine engagement throughout the process. Connect with Nicole Gee on LinkedIn or at geeniusconsulting.co.uk.

Join us on the Org Design Podcast as we dive into a captivating conversation with Ramona Elena Curciu, Head of Coherence, live from the EODF conference in Milan. In this episode, we explore the essence of org design, the journey from personal challenges to professional triumphs, and the importance of approaching organizational change with humility and respect. Ramona shares her unique insights on balancing the heart and tools in org design, emphasizing the need to honor the past while fostering growth. As hosts, we delve into the mindset required for effective org design, drawing parallels with design research principles. Tune in to discover how compassion and curiosity can transform organizational landscapes. If you're curious about org design or seeking inspiration, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with Ramona on LinkedIn and share your thoughts with us.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Tim Brewer and Amy Springer welcome Amri B. Johnson from Inclusion Wins. Amri shares his journey into organizational design, revealing how his background as an epidemiologist shaped his understanding of leadership and management. He discusses the importance of creating organizational structures that foster emergent strategies, emphasizing that "structure creates behavior." Amri highlights the common pitfalls organizations face when trying to implement diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives, noting that many fail to align their strategies with their stated goals. He argues for a shift in perspective: DEI should not be seen as a separate initiative but as integral to the organization's fabric. Listeners will gain insights into the significance of including team members in the decision-making process and the need for leaders to develop robust listening skills to build adaptive organizations. This conversation aims to equip leaders with the tools to create inclusive environments that allow all individuals to thrive, ultimately driving better organizational outcomes. Tune in to learn how to design organizations that are not only effective but also resilient and inclusive, ensuring that every voice is heard and valued.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Tim Brewer and Amy Springer sit down with Dallin Whitfield, a volunteer at the Org Design Festival and an expert in organizational design. Dallin shares his unconventional journey from aspiring lawyer to becoming an organization design consultant, highlighting the importance of understanding systems and people in the workplace. They discuss the evolving nature of organizational design, emphasizing the need for adaptability in response to external pressures like technological advancements and market changes. Dallin explains how Align Org, his current consultancy, focuses on collaboration and leveraging existing organizational knowledge to drive effective design processes. Listeners will gain insights into the methodologies used in organizational design, including the "Mastering the Cube" framework, which Dallin uses to guide organizations through strategic alignment and structural changes. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by organizations in today’s fast-paced environment and the importance of continuous design governance. Join us for an engaging discussion on how to navigate the complexities of organization design and build better workplaces.

Join us on the Org Design Podcast as we dive into the fascinating journey of Beth Gunderson in our episode, From Science to Strategy: Effective Org Design with Beth Gunderson. Beth, a key figure at the University of Southern California's Center for Effective Organizations, shares her unique path from material science to becoming an influential org design consultant. We explore her insights on the STAR framework, the importance of aligning org design with strategy, and the evolving role of operating models. Beth also discusses how leaders can effectively communicate change and foster collaboration across various organizational levels. With her extensive experience, Beth offers valuable advice for leaders and designers alike. Tune in as Amy, Damian, and I uncover the intricacies of effective org design and how it can transform organizations.

In this conversation, Jardena London—an Agile practitioner and author—discusses the concept of creating “soulful” organizations. Drawing on her background in software development, Jardena noticed that the real challenges weren’t purely technical; instead, they stemmed from how people and teams work together. She highlights three core conditions for soulfulness in any organization: Dignity – Ensuring people are treated with respect, rather than being forced to earn basic self-worth through work. Creativity – Making space for genuine problem-solving and innovation, as opposed to purely transactional or process-driven work that drains energy. Human Connection – Fostering collaboration and openness instead of merely relying on rigid handoffs and “automated” communication. Jardena contrasts these elements with environments that “crush the soul,” where strict processes, ego-driven leadership, or lack of trust discourage creativity and honest dialogue. She believes leaders have a key role in setting conditions: by becoming more self-aware, staying curious (especially in high-stakes situations), and listening actively, they can reduce friction and remove obstacles for their teams. From an organization design perspective, Jardena advocates looking at formal structures, processes, and policies—like budgeting or performance reviews—and asking how they might be unintentionally stifling dignity, creativity, or connection. Then, leaders should revisit the original purpose of these processes and rebuild them in ways that restore or enhance soulfulness. Ultimately, Jardena’s message is that while efficiency and outcomes matter, they are achieved more sustainably when leaders and teams operate with humanity at the forefront—creating organizations where people’s energy and creativity can flourish.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Amy Springer engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Pallavi Srivastava, an associate partner at The OrgSmith. They explore the often misunderstood concept of organizational design, emphasizing its importance beyond mere restructuring and cost-cutting measures. Pallavi shares insights on the need for leaders to adopt an agile and entrepreneurial mindset in today's rapidly changing business environment, particularly in light of recent global disruptions like COVID-19. The discussion covers the critical role of leaders in aligning organizational structures with dynamic strategies and the necessity for constant communication about these strategies. Pallavi highlights the significance of fostering a culture of innovation and psychological safety, enabling organizations to adapt quickly to change. She provides real-world examples of companies that successfully pivoted during the pandemic, demonstrating the qualities that empower resilient and agile organizations. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on the evolving landscape of job design in the context of AI and digital transformation, and the essential leadership skills required to navigate these changes. Pallavi underscores the need for empathy in leadership while also advocating for the courage to make tough decisions as organizations adapt to new challenges. Join us for this enlightening episode as we uncover the complexities of organizational design and the pivotal role of leadership in fostering a responsive and resilient business environment.