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Real World Behavioural Science

Author: Stu King

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Welcome to the Real World Behavioural Science (RWBS) podcast, where we look at how behavioural and social sciences are being used in the real world to help change the public’s health, for good.

The RWBS podcast is created by the Behavioural Science and Public Health Network ( and is aimed at people working in public health, academia and industry, who have an interest in how behavioural science is being used to improve health and wellbeing.

Each month, Stu King (BSPHN Committee Member and founder & CEO of behaviour change specialists BeeZee Bodies) and Dr Tiago Moutela (Head of Behavioural Science at BeeZee Bodies), interview professionals from the worlds of public health, academia and industry, who are using behavioural science to help change people’s lives.

We have episodes featuring:

- Professor Jim McManus - Co-founder of the BSPHN & Director of Public Health, Hertfordshire County Council, UK

- Dr Amy Bucher – Behavioural Scientist at MadPow, Boston, USA

- Dr Nick Cavill – Quasi-academic and Director of a Public Health Consultancy, UK

- Professor Chris Armitage – Professor of Health Psychology, University of Manchester, UK

- Rich Sheridan – CEO and Chief Storyteller at Menlo Innovations, Ann Arbour, USA

- Dr Justin Varney - Director of Public Health at Birmingham City Council, UK

- Mike Kelly - Visiting Fellow at Cambridge University Institute of Public Health, UK

- Wendy Wills - University of Hertfordshire

- Kim Roberts - HENRY

We have some great guests in the pipeline from across industry, public health and academia and from across the world, including:

- Samuel Salzer - Habits Weekly, Sweden

- Tim Chadborn - PHE Behavioural Insights Team

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42 Episodes
Casey opens this podcast by explaining that she designs for behaviour change in the lab of messy everyday life. It’s right up our street! Casey Hughes is a digital health leader and applied behavioural scientist with 15 years of experience designing novel behaviour change interventions for the prevention and management of chronic disease. Working at the crossroads of behavioural medicine, public health, and digital technology, Casey has led the ground-up design of numerous health apps, coaching programs, and large-scale behaviour change interventions at leading organisations such as Stanford, Apple, and Anthem, inc. Most recently, Casey led the design of a neuroscience-based habit formation app as SVP of Behavioural Science at Fresh Tri, inc. Casey’s work has helped hundreds of thousands of people enhance their mental wellbeing, achieve sustainable weight loss, and reverse chronic illness. This is an action-packed conversation where Casey makes some brilliant points and brings them to life with great examples too… We cover: Adaptive interventions and the role of AI and technology in behaviour changeDesigning for failure instead of successWhy we should all have a toolbox of behaviour change modelsThe importance of sociology in behaviour changeWhy ego needs to be left aside in place of humility, in behavioural science…And a bit of chat about Steve Jobs! This podcast is delivered as ever on behalf of the BSPHN (Behavioural Science in Public Health Network), hosted with my colleage and friend Dr Tiago Moutela. 
Theories, digressions, amazing points, laughs. Wow! I’m not sure I would describe this as an interview, but instead a tour du force from one of my favourite people in behaviour science.In 1hr and 42 minutes, we cover examples of the earliest behavioural scientists (Jesus and Aesop), to dog s*&t, horsepower, John Cleese, serial killers, naturism and a whole lot more!Rory Sutherland joined Ogilvy and Mathers as a graduate trainee and planner in 1988, becoming the creative director in 2001, from 2008 to 2012 he served as president of the institute of practitioners in advertising. In 2012 Rory founded the behavioural science practice within the Ogilvy group, whose goal is to develop marketing techniques inspired by the fields of psychology and economics rather than shape customers desires through conventional advertising. In his book, Alchemy, the power of ideas that don’t make sense, Rory argues that marketing ideas are built around a core that is profoundly irrational. Just a few of the vast array of themes from Rory’s incredible mind include:Why Jesus was a master of loss aversion.How irrational stories drive rational behaviourThe importance of anecdotal informationThe real reasons we make the decisions we doWhy we should stop asking the customerHow to make waiting lists a positiveWhy a meeting with no agenda is good sometimesWhy most inventors are really marketersWhy metrics are a distraction Thanks as ever to my co-host Dr Tiago Moutela, and as ever to our partners the Behavioural Science in Public Health Network (BSPHN).​
A cognitive economist, Leigh has gone on a journey through psychology, experimental economics and is now on a mission to bridge the gap between what people SAY they do, and what they REALLY do… This is a fascinating chat and will have takeaways that will spark thinking in all fields of work or study. A few of the things that we cover include. The power of stories in gathering rich insightWhy it’s essential to have rigour behind storytelling research methodologiesWhy the story you tell and meaning you create impacts product value`The importance of bringing creativity into research and insightSystem three thinking and helping people to “time travel”Listen on whatever platform you choose:  👉 SPOTIFY: ​ 👉 GOOGLE: ​ 👉 APPLE: ​ 👉 BUZZSPROUT:​ ​ As ever the podcast is run in partnership with the Behavioural Science and Public Health Network (BSPHN). ​ You can contact Leigh at @LeighBlue on Twitter or through the Irrational Agency website: 
This time the tables have turned on regular show host, Stuart King, MD & Head of Distraction at BeeZee Bodies. In this special edition, Stu is interviewed by an esteemed panel including BeeZee Bodies Behavioural Insights Lead, Dr Tiago Moutela, Dr Lou Atkinson, Head of Research at EXI, and Dr Neil Howlett, Senior Research Fellow in Behavioural Science at the University of Hertfordshire. Stu shares his journey; from first creating physical activity interventions funded by Sport England, to his time commissioning in Bedford Borough Council, as a Senior Scientist at Public Health England, and finally stepping into BeeZee Bodies full-time as CEO & Head of Distraction, in 2015. The panel dig into some of his key areas of interest including: 💡 Why re-defining relationships with failure is essential for innovation🤝 The keys to healthy commissioner / provider partnerships🎓 The challenges of embedding academic rigour into the real world✨ Why courage and bravery are the key to progress in public health As ever, Stu is open and honest about not knowing it all, about being obsessed with asking “so what” and “why” and talks candidly about successes and failures in equal measure. This podcast is hosted in partnership with the Behavioural Science in Public Health Network (BSPHN).
In this episode, Stuart King and Dr Tiago Moutela, have the pleasure of chatting with Dr Heather McKee. Heather is a known leading lifestyle behaviour change specialist and keynote speaker, with a background in health behaviour change psychology.Heather is on a mission to provide sustainable, evidenced based alternatives to an industry saturated by quick fixes and fads.Crediting her natural curiosity and “following her nose”, Heather’s career spans the many possible applications of a specialism in behavioural science.Starting out her academic journey at Dublin City University, Heather completed a masters at Loughborough University in the psychology of physical activity, and has spent time lecturing at St Mary’s University, Twickenham. She has worked in the community on behaviour change initiatives, with charities, and now consults to large corporations, with a particular passion for companies in digital health.Heather’s career has not followed a linear path, but her exposure to these different working environments has allowed her to translate her academic learnings into real life settings. Through her varied experiences, Heather has developed her own professional confidence which has led to her own brand of teaching behavioural science, focussed on helping people have fun whilst learning how this can be applied in their setting.Heather offers practical examples of the ways in which she brings behavioural science learning to life with new audiences and supports them to develop individual intrinsic motivation before beginning work with them at an organisational level.A must-listen for anyone on a “squiggly career” in the wonderful world of behavioural science!
In this episode of the Real World Behavioural Science Podcast, my colleague Dr Tiago Moutela Tiago Moutela and I get geeky with Pete around behavioural science and transport. ​​A self-confessed “transport enthusiast”, Pete’s work has spanned the private sector; as one of the founding team members of the Ogilvy UK Behavioural Science Team, to the public sector; building a team of behavioural scientists at the Government's Department for Transport (DfT), United Kingdom, and finally to academia at the University of Bath; where he’s seeking to understand more about the psychology of decision making around transport. ​​Having co-authored a book with behavioural science advertising oracle, Rory Sutherland, Pete is one of the UK’s foremost experts in designing transport solutions in response to human behaviour. ​​The aim of his latest research is to provide a more accurate picture of what is going on – albeit a much messier, more complex, and nuanced picture - from which decision makers can base investment and design decisions. ​​Some of the key points the discussion covers includes:​👉 The often-false assumptions around behaviour relating to travel​👉The importance of reframing & asking the right questions​👉The social implications & influences affecting the way we travel​👉The importance of diversity in decision making​👉 Managing stakeholder expectations relating to behavioural science​👉 The importance of collaboration between transport & health​​Pete remains excited about how much more we could understand about people from the data we could access. We look forward to following his work at Bath University!​​The podcast is delivered as usual in partnership with the Behavioural Science and Public Health Network (BSPHN).
Dr Rachel Carey is back for the second of two podcasts, hosted by Stuart King and Dr Tiago Moutela. The first podcast (episode 26) was recorded back in 2021, and Rachel kindly came back on the podcast to update us on progress at ZINC VC.Now Chief Scientist at ZINC VC, Rachel is a behavioural scientist with a background in health psychology. Following on from our previous conversation about how she applies (and advocates for the application of) behavioural science within start-up environments, Rachel talks about her experiences of and challenges with the often-binary perception of “academia” and “industry”.Rachel, Stuart and Tiago discuss:Putting research & evidence at the core of new ventures Benefits and challenges of moving from academia into “industryExperts vs generalistsChanging the narrative around career paths for researchersRobustness and rigour of research  Ultimately seeking to help mission-driven individuals to unlock their own impact, Rachel and the growing team at ZINC VC are doing fascinating and exciting work. You can find out more about them here: or contact Rachel directly on twitter via @Rach_Carey.
Dr Rachel Carey is this episode’s guest - and this is the first of two podcasts with Rachel, which were previously recorded back in 2021 - hosted by Stuart King and Dr Tiago Moutela.This fascinating conversation covers Rachels career; from academia into the world of applied behavioral science in the field of science-based, mission-driven, tech start-ups.We explore how Rachel utilizes behavioural science frameworks in her work, the importance of behavioural science at the beginning of the start-up journey, and how we can promote the adoption of mission-driven behavioural science in public health.Dr Rachel Carey is a behavioral scientist with a background in health psychology. Following the competition of her PHD at the National University of Ireland in Gallway, Rachel took up a post at UCL in 2014 working with Profession Susan Michie on the theories and techniques of beahviour change project.In 2016, Rachel joined BUPA, as a senior behavior change research advisor where she led a collaborative programme of work with UCL.Over the past 5 years as Zinc VC's Chief Scientist, Rachel has built an ever-growing inter-disciplinary research & development team who work with start-ups founders to create new, scalable and impact driven innovations.Rachel describes the way she uses behavior change frameworks including COM-B, the behavior change wheel, and the behavior change techniques taxonomy, as an objective and structured way to challenge assumptions, and make the product development process more efficient.She advocates for the need to incentivise and support the involvement of behavioral science in a start-up environment for big impact, but also the cross fertilization, learning and networking of applied behavioral scientists for all sectors.
Professor Marie Johnston is our guest on the first episode back, hosted by Stuart King and Dr Tiago Moutela…what a start!Marie epitomises what this show is all about. Her passion, dedication and steadfast commitment to her values shine through as she describes her journey to where she is today. A Registered Health and Clinical Psychologist, and Professor Emeritus of Health Psychology at the University of Aberdeen, Marie has been at the forefront of health psychology for five decades and was described by a colleague as having “kept health psychology in the UK on a scientific foundation.”Marie conducts research on behaviour change in health and healthcare contexts and on disability (theory, measurement and intervention).  She is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, the Academy of Medical Sciences, the Academy of Learned Societies for the Social Sciences the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh and Honorary Fellow of the British Psychological Society, European Health Psychology Society and the Health Psychology and Public Health Network.  Marie shares her career journey; from the University of St Andrews, Royal Free Hospital and Oxford University, having completed her BSc at the University of Aberdeen and PhD at the University of Hull.  Having had many decisions to make, Marie describes the core values that have guided her throughout:1.     Make a difference: it must have practical implications or influence policy2.     High quality: it must be intellectually valid and use the very best methodologyStuart and Marie discuss a wide range of topics including:The role of self-efficacy in predicting health outcomes for people with impairmentsExamples of successful working between academia and medicine, resulting in significant impactAdvice to people starting out in careers who want to get into applied behavioural psychology The role of behaviour change in the reduction of COVID transmissionUltimately Marie promotes working with quality, integrity, purpose, and mutual respect. Marie is not particularly active on social media, but you can contact her on her via email:
Professor Angel Chater is a Chartered Psychologist, Associate Fellow of The British Psychological Society and a Health & Sport & Exercise Psychologist with the Health & Care Professionals Council. She is a Professor in Health Psychology and Behaviour Change at the University of Bedfordshire, where she leads the centre in health, wellbeing and behaviour change. She is also an Honorary Senior Lecturer in Health Psychology and Behavioural Medicine at UCL and past Chair of the British Psychological Society Division of Health Psychology and passionate about the scientific application of health psychology to public health and its role in intervention design.  Professor Falko Sniehotta is Director of the NIHR Policy Research Unit for Behavioural Science, past President of the European Health Psychology Society, associate editor of The Health Psychology Review and member of the editorial board of Psychology & Heath and British Journal of Health Psychology. His work is recognised through honorary fellowships at the Academy of Social Science, the European Health Psychology Society, the American Psychological Association and the UK Behavioural Science in Public Health Network. His international research programme aims at developing and testing interventions to change behaviours relevant to health and healthcare. A multidisciplinary opportunity…Professor Sniehotta explains the implied idea that behavioural science and medicine are both multidisciplinary areas, not necessary distinctly different, and how the terms have been adapted through the years away from the medical to understanding in the way of behaviour. Both he and Professor Chater discuss the exciting opportunities that come from collaboration across the disciplines, how 'coming out of the ivory towers' of Universities can extend science in this way and make real positive change. Changing the conversation…Professor Chater explains times in her career where behaviour change work has had a direct, positive impact on people and populations from both a lobbying perspective and a research perspective, with the the Active Herts programme as a successful example of how behaviour change research helped develop a programme to encourage physical activity.  Examples of ‘Bench to Bedside’ translation…From this Professor Sniehotta adds about his ‘bench to bedside’ work with Professor Roy Taylor, Professor of Medicine and Metabolism at Newcastle University, to understand how to deliver an intervention that is powerful enough to achieve substantial weight loss in people living with Type-II Diabetes and how to implement this in primary care practices which has been a great success.  Teaching the foundations of behavioural science at schools…Stu and Angel debate the benefits that could arise as adults if we had learnt the foundations of behavioural science and health psychology as children at school. Could this limit those engaging in negative behaviours when they’re older? Could this tear down more barriers to leading healthier, happier lifestyles as adults?Falko expands on this by adding that to make real changes there are often three issues; funding, the narrative and the methods.ContactProfessor Angel Chater: Twitter / LinkedinProfessor Falko Sniehotta: Twitter / Linkedin
Maddy Arden is Professor of Health Psychology and Director of the Centre for Behavioural Science and Applied Psychology (CeBSAP) at Sheffield Hallam University.  She is a Chartered Psychologist, a full member of the DHP, and a Registered Health Psychologist (HCPC). Maddy is co-editor of the British Journal of Health Psychology and director of the Behavioural Science Consortium, which provides expertise to government on the application of behavioural science to public policy issues and is co-chair of the Yorkshire and Humber Behavioural Science hub.Greg Fell is the Director of Public Health in Sheffield. He graduated from Nottingham University with a Degree in Biochemistry and Physiology in 1993 and since then has had various roles including a Social Researcher in a maternity ward as well as a number of roles in Health Promotion and Public Health. Since 2016, Greg has worked as the Director of Public Health for Sheffield. Behavioural Science in the fight against Covid-19Professor Arden talks about how everything she does is underpinned by the theories of Health Psychology and Behavioural Science and how these can be put into practice in the real world. She explains how using these theories and frameworks, in relation to Covid-19, was helpful early on to predict what might be useful and what might happen.Underestimating the complexity of behavioural science She goes on to discuss how many can often underestimate the complexity of behavioural science and how she’s fed up of people using the phrase ‘common sense’, questioning what exactly we mean by it and how we need to consider that people can sometimes make decisions without a conscious rationale. In reference to this, she adds that there needs to be an awareness of the different factors influencing behaviour and more insightful conversations around this.  Thinking outside of ‘common sense’…Greg Fell explains how he works to convince people to think outside of their own ‘common sense’. Sticking to weight, Greg discusses decision making and how we all make rational and irrational choices, in the 'here and now', not thinking about what might happen in the future. How we’re products of our environment and how this can influence the choices we make, with reference to the recent junk food advertising ban and the work he has done in the past regarding smoking cessation.  Both go on to debate the similarities and differences between smoking cessation and weight loss barriers strategies. Takeaway ThoughtsProfessor Maddy Arden summarises the need to create awareness of how broadly behavioural science can be used and highlight the basic knowledge to know how widely it can be applied. Greg adds that behavioural science has positively begun to be applied across the Council and in agreement with Maddy, states how important it is to point out that the behavioural science ‘toolbox’ is out there, it exists and it can be used practically to solve problems. ContactProfessor Madelynne ArdenTwitter / LinkedinGreg FellTwitter / 
Professor Sharyn Rundle-Thiele is a social marketer and behavioural scientist. She is the Founding Director of Social Marketing at Griffith University, Queensland, Australia, which is the largest university-based group of social marketers in the world. She is Founding Co-Editor of the Journal of Social Marketing, has led projects that have changed behaviours for 10,000’s of people in areas including health, the environment and for complex social issues, has published more than 150 books and been awarded The Philip Kotler Social Marketing Distinguished Service Award.Differences between marketing & social marketingSharyn begins this episode by explaining how marketing can be applied across commercial and social outcomes, but also applied to ideas and social issues. She grew into the decision to move away from being a commercial marketer to a social one which has led her to be even more creative in order to change behaviours for the long term.How to sell more wine, to more people, more oftenStarting her career marketing consumer goods, Sharyn liked the art of what she was doing but wanted to learn more, so went back to University to do a Masters and then on to do a PhD. Her PhD became famously, how to sell more wine to more people more often!Having enjoyed the educational setting of her time at University, Sharyn went on to to teach social marketing focusing predominantly on social, health and environmental issues and founded the Journal of Social Marketing to create more space for researches to publish work. Social marketing is much more than social mediaSharyn goes on to explain that a natural misconception is that social marketing relates simply to social media.  It is instead the idea of marketing in a social space. There is a branding issue behind what social marketing is, and is not. She discusses how when you're working in the space of social change and your programme isn't get the uptake, its because you're selling the wrong thing. And we need to take a step back, and look at selling people something that they really want. That's where the real work begins. Coca Cola sell lifestyle, not product In reference to selling a lifestyle rather than just a product, Sharyn talks about how Coca Cola have done an effective job of building the associations in our minds that Coca Cola is family, fun and good times, giving links that go way beyond a beverage quenching a thirst.In relation to the health industry, she talks about whether messaging focuses too much on the health issue and we're getting the whole 'sell' wrong, needing to review what will really move and motivate people in order to stop missing the mark.Recent projectsSharyn moves on to highlight some of her projects; a social marketing pilot campaign to keep leaves out of waterways to improve water quality, the Leave it campaign working to reduce koala and dog interactions given that dog attacks are the third most common cause of death amongst Koalas and the Blurred Minds project, changing the way adolescents feel about alcohol. Takeaway AdviceDrawing on her marketing experience, Sharyn talks about the magic combination of listening well and giving people what they want. And keep doing it until you get it right. Data is great, but it's only looking backwards. It's the intuition and learning how to find what should happen next that is key.  Behaviour change means you can't do what you've always done. It takes courage. ContactTwitterLinkedin
Professor Richard Wiseman has been described as ‘…one of the most interesting and innovative experimental psychologists in the world today.’  His books have sold over 3 million copies and he presents keynote talks to organisations across the world, including The Swiss Economic Forum, Google and Amazon.He holds Britain’s only Professorship in the Public Understanding of Psychology at the University of Hertfordshire and is one of the most followed psychologists on Twitter.Street Magician to Psychology Professor Richard starts the podcast by talking about becoming completely hooked on magic at a young age. Whilst working in Covent Garden as a street magician,  Richard happened upon a magic book which described the similarities between magicians and psychologists. So began his interest in psychology. After completing his undergraduate degree at University College London (UCL), he went to Edinburgh University to work on a PhD looking at psychics and mediums as the team wanted someone with a background in the psychology of deception and magic. Upon completing that, Richard accepted a Lectureship at the University of Hertfordshire where he is now a professor. Public Understanding of PsychologyThrough work for radio and the BBC around identifying truth and lies, Richard talks about meeting two people that hugely impacted his career; Roger Highfield, who was the Science Editor at The Telegraph at the time and now is heavily involved in the Science Museum, and also Simon Singh, author of Fermat's Last Theorem. Putting ideas to paperRichard shares what he learnt from some time working in advertising, how to reframe and the importance of authenticity as a writer. In line with this, he talks about his book, The Luck Factor, looking at the psychology of luck. From this, he identified that small interventions can have big impact, which evolved into 59 seconds; think a little, change a lot. Behavioural ScienceRichard discusses how all the talks he gives are essentially about getting people to change, through simple interventions or 'opening the door' in a fun way. From these concepts, he wrote 'Rip it Up' about lifestyle change and during Covid-19, helped design a game where the more you kept away from people, the more lives you saved called 'Can you save the World?'.Richard talks about 'being expansive', working with Derren Brown who takes the audience on a journey from what seems a small idea through to what becomes a massive conclusion enthralling an entire audience. Takeaway Advice Richard leaves us with advice to find your passionate, be authentic and have a big vision. Don't be constrained by what others have done in the past and fundamentally, if you have a great idea, it will sell itself.   Contact Twitter @RichardWiseman CBC profile
Susan Michie is Professor of Health Psychology and Director of UCL's Health Psychology Research Group. She is also chartered clinical & health psychologist, and elected Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences, the European Health Psychology Society (EHPS) and the British Psychological Society (BPS). Early Life & CareerSusan starts the episode by talking about the huge shoes she felt she had to fill from a young age, with a father who was instrumental in setting up modern AI and computer science in the UK. During this time, the Lighthill report was produced saying that there was no future in computers - check out a YouTube video on the report's debate! Susan’s mother was also the first woman foreign secretary of the Royal Society, so her upbringing had a large emphasis on science.Susan details her journey through University, early career, and the many ways that she  rebelled against the system, staging events at Oxford University and beyond to challenge outdated policies and thinking. As a clinical psychologist, she worked in social services family centres with families and children who were at risk.  She also worked at the Royal Free Hospital, London where she joined the Psychology Unit as a Senior Research Fellow in Clinical Health Psychology, working with Professor Marie Johnston. Eventually Susan branched into other areas, such as public and professional attitudes towards genetic testing and informed choice and decision making about prenatal screening. She explains that her career journey has had many branches as she does not stay within the academic four-walls, even knocking on doors to talk with people. CBC & COM-BSusan talks about her work in UCL's Centre for Behaviour Change (CBC) which brings together disciplines and translates behavioural science for practical use. The CBC  provide CBC training, a Summer school, conferences & events, and an MSc in behaviour change.She shares how the COM-B model of behaviour was developed by working in the Department of Health, where she saw how none of the many behavioural frameworks were 100% fit for purpose. Systematic reviews revealed that a simple model was needed to understand behaviour, and inspiration was taken from the American Judicial System – does someone have the Capability, the Opportunity and the Motivation to commit a crime.As her work on the application of behavioural theories continues, Susan shares how she is looking to continue linking work across disciplines and seek methods for better analysis of the huge amounts of data being produced about behaviour change.Susan leaves us with advice for those starting out or entering field: try and do what you are really interested in, are curious about and enjoy doing, when you can. Building networks is  hugely important so don't be shy to start conversations or write to people. 9 times out of 10 it might go nowhere, but 1 in 10, it can take you to interesting places.ContactTwitter @SusanMichieCBC profile
This is a special episode with the Current Chair, Past Chair, and Past-Past Chair and Treasurer of the BSPHN!  Having had the BSPHN's annual conference in February, this is the perfect time to get some of the founding committee members together.We begin by understanding how each member of the committee found their way to creating the BSPHN and how the collaboration between health psychology, behavioural science and public health is becoming more and more integral.The group discussed the recent virtual BSPHN conference, which centred on behavioural practice within the Covid pandemic. There has also been great interdisciplinary and rapid insight work during the pandemic, which highlights how crucial this is for future work to solve big public health issues. It may also have removed some of the barriers between academia and implementation as the proof of success is clear to see.They also celebrated some of the opportunities of the online format - allowing live chat and conversation between people during presentations so discussions could be had which isn't as possible during a presentation in a room.Is the BSPHN for you?The group talk about why they think can benefit: health psychologists, behavioural scientists, sociologists, those in Public Health looking for insight in applying those things. It is for all levels - trainees, practitioners, policy makers at every level to get skills to use everyday. It's the kind of group they would have wanted when they were starting out or looking to develop or speak to people.Where is the BSPHN going?It's a movement for change which is creating a  nurturing relationship between sectors, removing the 'stand-offishness' people might feel in other contexts or groups. They creating supportive pathways and roles between current, sometimes isolated, teams in public health and behavioural insight work.If you are interested in joining or learning more, check out the BSPHN website.Hope you enjoy the podcast - please leave a review wherever you listen.
The BSPHN's Annual Conference is running from 9th - 11th February 2021. Sign up to attend now and get a year's free membership.Stu is joined by Dan Makoski; an executive that brings an organisation’s deepest purpose to life by weaving technology and strategy together through brilliant design.Dan is  Chief Design Officer at Lloyds Banking Group, leading a multi-disciplinary human-centred team with the goal of helping Britain prosper through empathetic & pioneering design.He was Head of Design at Walmart (the Fortune 1), started Project ARA at Google, designed the original Surface at Microsoft, led design research globally at Motorola, and was the first VP of Design at Capital One.Dan knows seven versions of the running man & in addition to being bald, Dan & Stu (& finance & health), have lots in common.Dan talks about his experiences of connecting a historically transactional world with real human behaviour. The pair discuss the fact that heavily regulated industries like health, finance & education are risk averse due to their importance,  & therefore suffer from the unintended consequence of lack of creativity & human focus. They also discuss the need to flip our approach to language..."Banking has operated so far on the presumption that to help people, they need to make people financially literate. What we're explaining is that banking has to learn the language of people."Dan explains simple approaches to adopt when beginning the process of designing around people, including developing personas, scenarios & interactions to better respond to human behaviour. He explains how through extensive research, Lloyds have moved from a "customer journey" approach to a "life journey" approach to help people connect banking with relatable life moments.He also shares example of using behavioural economics in practice, including the locus of control, and how, implemented in the design of banking products, it helps people make better financial decisions.Stu & Dan discuss the similarities between health & financial wellbeing, the "goalposts" of relative progress vs absolute success & the feelings of guilt and shame associated. Dan closes with positive messages that industries are moving in the right direction towards a human centred approach & hopes that once the pandemic has gone, the financial honesty & human focus will remain.The Social DilemmaDan: website, linkedin, twitterNudgestock presentation - articleFintech Futures article
The BSPHN's Annual Conference is running from 9th - 11th February 2021. Sign up to attend now and get a year's free membership. In this episide, Stu is joined by Adam Ferrier, Founder & Chief Thinker at Thinkerbell, an agency that practices measured magic - bridging marketing science and hard core creativity. Thinkerbell won AdNews' 2019  Creative Agency of the Year. Adam is also author of two books: "The Advertising Effect: How to Change Behaviour" & "Stop Listening to the Customer: Try Hearing Your Brand Instead".Adam shares how he was always interested in money and people which led him into the world of consumer psychology. His thesis was on what makes people 'cool' and spent time training in the clinical psychology model, but soon found that this alone didn't offer the most effective solutions.Adam and Stu discuss what makes effective behaviour change campaigns from across sectors; from the effort paradox in IKEA's furniture, to why weight loss control groups lose more weight than the experimental groups. They look at some of the public health campaigns that Adam has worked on in Australia: Man Up, a documentary on how men express themselves to broaden stereotypes; ABC Goes Mental As, a dedicated week of programming for Mental Health; Doing Nothing Does Harm,  an online campaign giving people the option to stop sexist behaviour, which involved people in the campaign as well as mimicked the desired behaviour.The pair look at what public health can learn from marketing and advertising - creating a category of cause, understanding the irrationality of people's choices and the influence of reality TV. To illustrate this Adam and Stu give examples of Milgram's experiments, asking why you bought the shoes you're wearing, and how picking up dog poo makes you feel when you do, or don't, own a dog. They both also recommend Rory Sutherland's book "Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense" as a starting point for anyone looking to understand and change behaviours. Adam also discusses the need to find a brand category, like the work of OMGyes which fills the niche of education around sexual pleasure.Adam leaves us with what he is looking at and working on in behavioural science at the moment: s p a c e - where ideas meet influence and DOA - a social cause agency working with business, brands, government and movements to have a positive impact on the world.Contact & more information:Adam: Twitter, LinkedInStu: Twitter, LinkedIn, Stu's blogs
Recorded 15th December 2020Guests:Professor Jim McManus - Director of Public Health at Hertfordshire County Council and VP of the Association of Directors of Public Health. He is a Chartered Psychologist, British Psychological Society Fellow & Co-Founder and Chair of the Behavioural Science and Public Health Network. Dr Daniel Jolley - Snr Lecturer in Psychology at Northumbria University, Chartered Psychologist of the British Psychological Society & member of the Executive Committee of the Social Psychology Section. Daniel is a social psychologist with expertise in the psychology of conspiracy theories.Episode Description:In this coronavirus special, Stu talks with Jim and Dan about conspiracy theories - including what separates conspiratorial thinking from more simple questioning, and how as conspiracies become more familiar to us, they can also become more believable. They explore the history of conspiracies, how they are nothing new and often accompany significant cultural or political change. In doing so, Dan demonstrates how beliefs in conspiracies are linked with higher anxiety and feelings of threat. The group then go on to examine and tackle some conspiracies relating to COVID-19 and the vaccine:5G and worsening COVID-19 symptomsVaccines and side effects How could it have been developed so quickly?If it works why can't we stop social distancing?Vaccine contains nanoparticlesVaccine is being used for trackingWe don’t know what’s in itThe group also discuss how to bring people away from conspiracies, and how this starts with building back trust; having a genuine dialogue with compassion and establishing common ground.Additional resources:Go Viral! - game developed by University of Cambridge & UK Government. It gives a taste of the techniques and motivations behind the spread of coronavirus misinformation .NHS Why Vaccinations Are Important - how vaccines work, what they contain and the most common side effects.Contact:Dr Daniel Jolley: Website  & TwitterProfessor Jim McManus: LinkedInStu King: LinkedIn, Twitter & Stu's Blogs
Recorded 8th December 2020.Guests joining Stu King:Professor Jim McManus - Director of Public Health at Hertfordshire County Council & Vice President of the Association of Directors of Public Health.Wayne Bateman - Behavioural Science Specialist in the Behaviour Change Unit at Hertfordshire County Council.Dr Paul Chadwick -  Associate Professor and Deputy Director Centre for Behaviour Change at University College London & Consultant Clinical and Health Psychologist.Episode covers the release of the rapid response paper:COVID-19 Vaccination: Reducing Vaccine Hesitancy - Review & Recommendations. This is an incredibly important paper that Hertfordshire County Council will share widely to support the use of behavioural science in creating messaging to maximise uptake of the vaccine in the general population by supporting professionals across the system.Click here for other Herts County Council COVD-19 Behavioural Sciences Resources.At the time of recording, the vaccine is being rolled out to the most vulnerable & most exposed, however these groups can also be the most likely to be hesitant to uptake the vaccine due to information and time limitations.Stu and guests discuss the content of the paper - research on increasing uptake methods, data on previous vaccinations in pandemics, barriers to uptake & surveys on current COVID vaccination hesitancy. It marries up barriers of complacency, confidence & convenience with behaviourally sound strategies to mitigate them. And provides easily digestible messages for Public Health teams to into quick action for local vaccine uptake.The trio explain how the paper applies the COM-B model to vaccination hesitancy and recommends the EAR strategy when applying to communities: Engaging, Acknowledging and Responding accordingly for each approach and audience. The document is expected to develop over time, with input from the SAGE committee, for example.Contacts:Stu King: @Stu_King_Hh, LinkedIn & Stu's BlogsDr Paul Chadwick - @drpaulchadwick, LinkedIn, UCL Centre for Behavioural ChangeWayne Bateman - LinkedInProfessor Jim McManus: @jimmcmanusph and on LinkedIn
Thanks to BSPHN for hosting this podcast. The BSPHN's annual conference is coming up on 9th-11th February 2021, and will showcase the efforts of behavioural science and public health towards COVID-19. Free for members, or the same price as an annual membership cost.This week Stu is joined by two PR and Marketing experts; Chloe Franses and Andrew Thomas.Chloe's experience extends from working as head of creative relationships at Amnesty International, to building authenticity for brands such as Formula E, and individuals such as Idris Elba.  Andrew is a commercial marketer and works in transformation, helping  individuals to thrive in the new digital economy.  The three look at how marketing and PR has changed over time - the world that Saatchi & Saatchi were working in, the persuasion  that was used, and how different the world is now with more transparency, and more competition for attention. They also discuss how the aims of PR has changed, from helping brands and organisations to 'not look bad' to showcasing how they create real social value not only for commercial profit for themselves, but to genuinely benefit the community. Using examples of the oil & gas and fashion industry and how audiences are more challenging of brands, and trends like 'green washing' led to the need to demonstrate better values.Chloe shares her experience of the power of celebrity endorsement and how it can tap into people's identities in a way that organisations cannot. Andrew expands on this notion of identity, driving brand loyalty throughout life.When looking at what healthcare can learn from marketing across industries, they explore that health messages are explained in a rational way even though people are often irrational in decisions around their health. They examine how this can be better aligned through simplicity, and a focus on who delivers the message. For example, the difficulty in undoing the glamourised imagery of smoking (even with the Suffragettes and torches of freedom) in order to encourage people to quit for their health. Contacts:Chloe Franses: Instagram, LinkedIn & website.Andrew Thomas: LinkedIn Stu King: Twitter, LinkedIn, Stu's Blogs
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