The Covert Narcissism Podcast

In Part 2 of my conversation with Sarma Melngailis, we dive into the turning point—the awakening after covert narcissistic abuse. Sarma shares the moment she began to see the manipulation clearly, how she learned to gray rock and set boundaries, and what it means to find freedom after years of psychological control. Together, we unpack the neurobiology of cognitive dissonance, the pull of trauma bonds, and the courage it takes to finally close the door for good. In this episode: The “ice queen” strategy and how to emotionally disengage Why closure can be the most dangerous trap How cognitive dissonance and fear keep survivors stuck Rebuilding self-trust after coercion and public judgment Sarma’s insight into the psychological and spiritual aftermath of abuse offers hope to anyone finding their way back to self-trust and peace. Her memoir The Girl With The Duck Tattoo continues to open eyes about coercion, consent, and resilience after narcissistic abuse. Learn more about my coaching and recovery programs at www.covertnarcissism.com Share your thoughts below—how have you learned to reclaim your voice after manipulation? THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Triangulation is one of the covert narcissist’s most insidious tools — because it’s quiet, invisible, and devastating.It’s how they control the narrative, twist communication, and turn the people you love against each other — all while pretending to be the calm, reasonable “peacekeeper.” In this episode, Renee shares two powerful stories that reveal how triangulation slowly poisons relationships: The first, a marriage where everything seems fine on the surface — until every conversation starts getting filtered through one partner’s control. The second, a family where a covertly narcissistic parent quietly pits two siblings against each other for decades. Through these stories and a heartfelt reflection, you’ll learn how triangulation erodes trust, damages connection, and keeps survivors trapped in confusion and self-doubt. Join Renee next week as she continues this conversation with how to step out of triangulation and begin repairing the relationships it’s damaged. Because once you see the pattern, you can finally start breaking free from it. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Sarma Melngailis—best known from the Netflix docuseries Bad Vegan—joins me to reveal the story the headlines never told. In this powerful and deeply human conversation, Sarma opens up about covert narcissistic abuse, repeated manipulation, and the long road of self-discovery that followed. We explore how empathy, idealism, and even neurodivergence can make survivors more vulnerable to covert abuse—and how these same traits can also become sources of strength and healing. In Part 1, we go beyond the public narrative into: The early relationship patterns that mirrored covert narcissistic abuse Why intelligent, capable people can still miss the warning signs The link between sensitivity, empathy, and manipulation Finding self-compassion after shame and public judgment Sarma’s new memoir The Girl With The Duck Tattoo reveals the deeper truth of her experience—a story of narcissistic abuse, manipulation, and resilience. If you’ve ever felt unseen or misunderstood, this episode will remind you that your empathy is not your weakness—it’s your superpower. Learn more about my coaching and recovery programs at www.covertnarcissism.com. THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You didn’t just wake up one day and decide to slap them.That moment — the one that now fills you with shame and self-blame — didn’t come out of nowhere. It’s been building for a long time. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores what happens when years of emotional invalidation, manipulation, and gaslighting finally push you past your breaking point. When your calm exterior cracks, and your reaction — whether yelling, slamming a door, or even lashing out — leaves you wondering, “What’s wrong with me?” With deep compassion and truth, Renee explains the nervous system’s response to chronic emotional stress, how covert narcissists weaponize your reactions, and why a single moment does not define your character. You’ll hear a powerful story of one survivor who reached her limit — and how Renee helped her see that vulnerability and accountability can exist alongside self-forgiveness. This episode isn’t about condoning reactive behavior. It’s about understanding it — and breaking free from the shame that keeps survivors stuck in silence. If you’ve ever felt deep remorse after snapping, this conversation will help you see your humanity with new eyes. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when survivors of covert narcissistic abuse come together in one safe space? At our recent CNG retreat, fifteen women gathered with fear, doubt, hope, and courage. Some were terrified to share their stories, afraid of judgment or dismissal. Others were overflowing with relief at finally being heard. In this episode, I reflect on the lessons and transformations from that weekend: the power of connection, the validation that comes from shared stories, and the healing that happens when silence turns into vulnerability. If you’ve ever wondered whether community can help you heal from covert narcissistic abuse, this conversation is for you. Your story matters, and you deserve to be heard without judgment. If you’re ready to take the next step toward healing, check out my coaching services at www.covertnarcissism.com. And don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering episodes like this one. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever wondered why just being yourself feels like walking through a minefield with a covert narcissist? Why your joy, your truth, your boundaries, even your growth seem to set off explosions? In this episode, we unpack exactly why the covert narcissist sees you as a threat. From your truth that cracks their carefully crafted image, to your feelings that highlight their emptiness, to your independence, awareness, and growth that they can’t control—every healthy part of you feels like danger to them. But what they fear most is actually your greatest liberation: your authenticity and wholeness. If you’ve felt like love, honesty, or boundaries only made things worse, this episode will help you see the patterns more clearly—and remind you that your strength is not the problem. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Part 2 of my conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon, we go deeper into the journey of leaving—and staying gone—from covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn opens up about the staggering reality that it takes an average of seven attempts to leave an abusive relationship before it finally sticks, and why so many survivors find themselves pulled back into the cycle again and again. She shares the powerful response her video on this topic has received—thousands of comments, shares, and private messages from survivors who see their own story reflected in hers. We talk about the heartbreak of repeated attempts, the invisible battles survivors fight to break free, and the hope that comes when we begin to live on the outside of the cage rather than inside it. This is a conversation about resilience, the importance of community, and the way art and storytelling can give survivors permission to believe that freedom is possible. Learn more about Caryn Dixon and her work at caryndixonmusic.com DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when you stop pouring all your energy into someone else and start investing it back into yourself? In a healthy relationship, your self-care is welcomed and even celebrated. Your partner enjoys the space to recharge too, and both of you come back stronger. But in a relationship with a covert narcissist, pulling back your supply—the constant attention, caretaking, and emotional labor—can trigger explosions, implosions, and childlike tantrums. In this episode, Renee explores: What “supply” really means in covert narcissistic relationships The stark difference between healthy partners and covert narcissists when you focus on self-care Real stories of explosions (“So you don’t care about me anymore?!”) and implosions (the dreaded silent treatment) How pulling back gently can expose the genuine nature of your relationship Practical ways to reclaim your energy without cruelty, only clarity If your relationship crumbles the moment you take care of yourself, it’s not love—it’s control. Your worth is not found in endlessly giving yourself away. Your worth is already inside of you. ✨ Takeaway: Self-care is not betrayal. It’s the clearest test of whether your relationship is mutual love or one-sided survival. Your story matters, and you deserve to be heard without judgment. If you’re ready to take the next step toward healing, check out my coaching services at [your website]. And don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering episodes like this one. DISCLAIMER THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this first half of my two-part conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon, we explore the story behind her new EP Bird in a Cage—a raw and vulnerable collection of songs written out of her experience of covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn shares how life inside the “perfect couple” image felt more like a shrinking cage, one that left her hiding her pain, questioning her reality, and carrying invisible bruises. We talk about the silence, sulking, and subtle manipulations that made her doubt herself, the heartbreaking difficulty of explaining covert abuse to the outside world, and the powerful shift that came when she began to put her truth into music. If you’ve ever felt trapped behind bars no one else could see, Caryn’s story will resonate deeply. This is a conversation about breaking silence, reclaiming creativity, and finding freedom—one voice, one song, and one brave step at a time. A big part of Caryn’s mission is to empower people—especially women who’ve felt stuck or like they’ve had to choose between family and chasing their dreams. Through her music and platform, she hopes to show that it’s possible to build a life that honors both. Known for her blend of traditional country roots and modern storytelling, Caryn brings a genuine energy to every stage and song. Her growing career isn’t about chasing fame—it’s about building something real, one story, one listener, and one step at a time. Learn more about Caryn Dixon at https://www.caryndixonmusic.com/ DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In today’s episode, I step away from the usual format to share something deeply personal and profoundly important. This is a tribute—a celebration of life—for a member of our community whose story ended too soon. For her privacy, I will call her Mary. Mary’s life was marked by decades of devotion, sacrifice, and quiet endurance. Though her family didn’t see her pain, and though her reality went unacknowledged in her death, we will not let her story be erased. Today, I honor Mary’s strength, her love, and her life—and in doing so, I honor every man and woman who is living Mary’s nightmare. This episode is for all of you who feel invisible, broken inside, or uncared for. It’s a reminder that your sacrifices matter, your tears matter, and your life matters. Abuse doesn’t just live in the shadows of your heart—it takes a toll on your body, your spirit, and your very sense of home. But still, you carry strength beyond measure, even if no one else sees it. So join me as we pause to honor Mary’s story and, through her, celebrate the lives of all survivors of covert narcissistic abuse. DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leaving a covert narcissist isn’t a single moment of walking out the door—it’s a layered process that unfolds in stages. In this episode, I explore the three different ways survivors leave: physically, emotionally, and mentally. In physically abusive relationships, your body often leaves first for safety, while your heart and mind lag behind. In emotionally abusive relationships, your heart shuts down long before your body can walk away. And mentally? That’s the hardest and final stage—when you finally kick them out of your head and reclaim your thoughts. Through stories, examples, and practical tools, I’ll guide you through each stage of leaving. You’ll learn why this process feels so different depending on the type of abuse, and how to give yourself grace along the way. Most importantly, you’ll walk away with real strategies for physical safety, emotional boundaries, and mental freedom—plus a touch of humor to lighten the load. Your journey matters, and every step is part of your healing. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You’ve researched. You’ve reasoned. You’ve shown empathy. You’ve tried again and again to help them see the truth—about their behavior, the damage, the disconnection. But nothing changes. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores one of the most painful patterns survivors of covert narcissistic abuse face: the endless attempts to help, to explain, to connect—and the devastating realization that it never leads to real progress. Through personal stories, listener reflections, and a powerful metaphor about stalled software updates, Renee unpacks why covert narcissists rarely "wake up," even when the truth is laid out in front of them. She shares what happens when you finally name the problem… and they still don’t (or won’t) see it. And she reminds you that your growth, your healing, and your peace don’t have to wait for someone else’s transformation. Because when you’re the only one trying, it’s not a relationship—it’s a rescue mission. DISCLAIMER:The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever replayed a conversation in your head, wondering if you misunderstood what was said—or if you were being manipulated? In relationships with covert narcissists, it’s rarely the words themselves that do the most damage. It’s the intent, the tone, and the unspoken energy behind them. In this episode, we explore how the same words can hold completely different meanings depending on who is saying them—and why. From “I don’t want to fight” to “I’m sorry,” covert narcissists use language as a tool to avoid accountability and maintain control, while survivors use those very same phrases as cries for connection and repair. You’ll learn how to recognize the difference between words spoken with genuine vulnerability and those used as weapons of manipulation. By the end, you’ll see more clearly that it isn’t the vocabulary that defines abuse—it’s the intent and capacity behind the words. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If Covert Narcissism 101 exposed the basics, get ready for the advanced curriculum. This is Part Two of our two-part series — and today, we’re tackling Covert Narcissism 102: The Final Exam You Never Wanted to Take. In this sarcastic “classroom lecture,” we break down the advanced strategies covert narcissists seem to master: weaponizing forgetfulness, controlling through chaos, hijacking holidays, rewriting history, and keeping their partners hooked with just enough crumbs of affection. It’s the textbook they all seem to have memorized — and once you recognize the syllabus, you’ll never look at their tactics the same way again. And don’t miss the “final exam” and mock graduation ceremony — because by the end of this episode, you’ll see exactly why you’re ready to drop the class, tear up the syllabus, and claim your freedom. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever noticed that covert narcissists all seem to follow the exact same script? It’s as if they sat in the same classroom, took the same notes, and memorized the same textbook. In this episode — Part One of a two-part series — we crack open that mysterious manual: Covert Narcissism 101. From the art of the half-apology, to gaslighting, silent treatments, and the polished public persona, you’ll hear the “lessons” every covert narcissist seems to master. Presented with humor and sarcasm, this episode walks through the “professor’s lecture” to covert narcissists-in-training, exposing the playbook they all seem to know by heart. Because when you live with a covert narcissist, it’s not a relationship — it’s an education you never signed up for. But once you see the syllabus, you’ll know exactly how to drop the class for good. Stay tuned for Part Two, where we’ll dive into the advanced curriculum: hijacking holidays, rewriting history, and keeping you hooked. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One of the most painful realities of living with a covert narcissist is the absence of reconciliation. Conflicts don’t get repaired. Apologies are either nonexistent or so hollow they echo in your chest. You’re left holding the pieces of a conflict, waiting for your partner to help put them back together—only to realize they’ve already walked away, acting like nothing happened. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores the gaping hole where reconciliation should exist in relationships with covert narcissists. Through real-life examples—like the silent treatment over a dishwasher, the missed soccer game, and the joke that “was just a joke”—Renee contrasts how repair unfolds in healthy relationships versus how it is systematically blocked in toxic ones. This episode shines a light on the crazy-making cycle survivors are trapped in: punished for speaking up, punished for staying silent, blamed for everything either way. Yet it also offers clarity and hope: the recognition that the absence of repair is not your fault, and healing is still possible. If you’ve been left alone in the wreckage, waiting for closure that never comes, this episode will help you name the gaping hole for what it is—and begin to build your own bridge to healing. DISCLAIMER:THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Divorcing a covert narcissist is not just about paperwork—it’s about survival. Today on the Covert Narcissism Podcast, I sit down with Bree Sullivan-Howell, a seasoned family law attorney with over two decades of experience and the author of Crush Your Divorce and Keep Your Faith and Crush Your Comeback. Bree brings both practical wisdom from the courtroom and heartfelt guidance for the personal and spiritual battles that survivors face. In this powerful conversation, Bree and I dive deep into: Why narcissists view their spouse and children as possessions—and what happens when you dare to break free. The reality of post-separation abuse and how it shows up in custody battles and court filings. How legal abuse works—and why narcissists weaponize the legal system to keep control. Practical steps for documenting emotional abuse in ways that hold weight in court. The critical importance of building a support team—attorney, therapist, coach, and trusted allies—so you’re not fighting this battle alone. How to become a safe haven for your children while navigating accusations of parental alienation. Why it’s essential to avoid clinical labels in court and instead focus on facts and behaviors. Bree also shares her faith-based perspective on reclaiming worth, hope, and freedom—reminding us that there is life after narcissism. If you’re in the thick of a high-conflict divorce, this episode is a roadmap of both strategy and encouragement. You’ll walk away with clarity on what to expect, how to prepare, and the confidence that you are not alone in this fight. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When you’re in a relationship with a covert narcissist, it can feel like living in Never Never Land—a place where no one grows up, nothing ever gets resolved, and you’re left carrying all the weight. At first, their charm feels like magic. They’re playful, adventurous, fun. But when real life shows up—accountability, conflict, emotional depth—they shut down, lash out, or retreat into blame. In this episode, we explore the Peter Pan World of covert narcissists, those who refuse to grow up and keep their partners stuck in emotional childhood right alongside them. Whether it’s Peter Pan or Paula Pan, and whether you are playing the role of Wendy or William, the result is the same: you’re cast into the role of caretaker, carrying the emotional, practical, and relational weight while your needs are silenced. We’ll unpack: The traits of a covert narcissist who avoids responsibility at all costs.  The emotional toll of being cast as Wendy—or William—in the relationship.  Why truth, repair, and closure vanish into “Never Never Land.”  How to recognize the cycle and start writing a new story outside of their fantasy world.  If you’ve ever felt like you’re living in Never Never Land, an emotional purgatory with someone who refuses to grow up, this episode will help you name it—and remind you that you don’t have to stay there. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?” Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you better just shut up. I’m better than you at manipulating things, turning things against you, controlling you. This is my territory. This in a marriage! So condescending. So hurtful. It’s no wonder that we quit talking to them. So many victims shut down and go grey rock and don’t even understand why. They don’t even know what that is, but do it out of survival. So what should those rights be? What do they look like in a healthy relationship? I re-wrote them: "You have the right to be you. Anything you say can and will be heard and valued. You have the right to speak your mind. If you do not know how to speak your mind, I will wait patiently and eagerly to hear your thoughts. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, are you open to speaking with me?" I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. •Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? •Are you searching for people who get it? •Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? •Are you running in circles in your mind? •Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? •Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don’t have to know the terminology to know when something feels wrong.Long before I knew the term gaslighting, I knew the dizzying confusion of hearing “I never said that” about something I remembered clearly. Before I’d ever heard of circular conversations, I knew the frustration of talking in circles until I was the one apologizing. Before I could name moving goalposts, I knew the exhaustion of never being able to “get it right.” And before I understood walking on eggshells, I knew the tension of monitoring every word, every step, every breath. In this episode, I’m taking you through these tactics—not as cold definitions, but as lived experiences. You’ll hear personal stories, examples, and the emotional reality behind the phrases. And you’ll learn why this podcast isn’t about labeling someone as a covert narcissist—it’s about giving you the language to talk about what you’ve lived through and to reclaim your truth. Because you may not have had the words back then… but you knew the feeling. And now, you can name it. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.