The Covert Narcissism Podcast

In this first half of my two-part conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon, we explore the story behind her new EP Bird in a Cage—a raw and vulnerable collection of songs written out of her experience of covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn shares how life inside the “perfect couple” image felt more like a shrinking cage, one that left her hiding her pain, questioning her reality, and carrying invisible bruises. We talk about the silence, sulking, and subtle manipulations that made her doubt herself, the heartbreaking difficulty of explaining covert abuse to the outside world, and the powerful shift that came when she began to put her truth into music. If you’ve ever felt trapped behind bars no one else could see, Caryn’s story will resonate deeply. This is a conversation about breaking silence, reclaiming creativity, and finding freedom—one voice, one song, and one brave step at a time. A big part of Caryn’s mission is to empower people—especially women who’ve felt stuck or like they’ve had to choose between family and chasing their dreams. Through her music and platform, she hopes to show that it’s possible to build a life that honors both. Known for her blend of traditional country roots and modern storytelling, Caryn brings a genuine energy to every stage and song. Her growing career isn’t about chasing fame—it’s about building something real, one story, one listener, and one step at a time. Learn more about Caryn Dixon at https://www.caryndixonmusic.com/ DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In today’s episode, I step away from the usual format to share something deeply personal and profoundly important. This is a tribute—a celebration of life—for a member of our community whose story ended too soon. For her privacy, I will call her Mary. Mary’s life was marked by decades of devotion, sacrifice, and quiet endurance. Though her family didn’t see her pain, and though her reality went unacknowledged in her death, we will not let her story be erased. Today, I honor Mary’s strength, her love, and her life—and in doing so, I honor every man and woman who is living Mary’s nightmare. This episode is for all of you who feel invisible, broken inside, or uncared for. It’s a reminder that your sacrifices matter, your tears matter, and your life matters. Abuse doesn’t just live in the shadows of your heart—it takes a toll on your body, your spirit, and your very sense of home. But still, you carry strength beyond measure, even if no one else sees it. So join me as we pause to honor Mary’s story and, through her, celebrate the lives of all survivors of covert narcissistic abuse. DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leaving a covert narcissist isn’t a single moment of walking out the door—it’s a layered process that unfolds in stages. In this episode, I explore the three different ways survivors leave: physically, emotionally, and mentally. In physically abusive relationships, your body often leaves first for safety, while your heart and mind lag behind. In emotionally abusive relationships, your heart shuts down long before your body can walk away. And mentally? That’s the hardest and final stage—when you finally kick them out of your head and reclaim your thoughts. Through stories, examples, and practical tools, I’ll guide you through each stage of leaving. You’ll learn why this process feels so different depending on the type of abuse, and how to give yourself grace along the way. Most importantly, you’ll walk away with real strategies for physical safety, emotional boundaries, and mental freedom—plus a touch of humor to lighten the load. Your journey matters, and every step is part of your healing. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You’ve researched. You’ve reasoned. You’ve shown empathy. You’ve tried again and again to help them see the truth—about their behavior, the damage, the disconnection. But nothing changes. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores one of the most painful patterns survivors of covert narcissistic abuse face: the endless attempts to help, to explain, to connect—and the devastating realization that it never leads to real progress. Through personal stories, listener reflections, and a powerful metaphor about stalled software updates, Renee unpacks why covert narcissists rarely "wake up," even when the truth is laid out in front of them. She shares what happens when you finally name the problem… and they still don’t (or won’t) see it. And she reminds you that your growth, your healing, and your peace don’t have to wait for someone else’s transformation. Because when you’re the only one trying, it’s not a relationship—it’s a rescue mission. DISCLAIMER:The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case. This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever replayed a conversation in your head, wondering if you misunderstood what was said—or if you were being manipulated? In relationships with covert narcissists, it’s rarely the words themselves that do the most damage. It’s the intent, the tone, and the unspoken energy behind them. In this episode, we explore how the same words can hold completely different meanings depending on who is saying them—and why. From “I don’t want to fight” to “I’m sorry,” covert narcissists use language as a tool to avoid accountability and maintain control, while survivors use those very same phrases as cries for connection and repair. You’ll learn how to recognize the difference between words spoken with genuine vulnerability and those used as weapons of manipulation. By the end, you’ll see more clearly that it isn’t the vocabulary that defines abuse—it’s the intent and capacity behind the words. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If Covert Narcissism 101 exposed the basics, get ready for the advanced curriculum. This is Part Two of our two-part series — and today, we’re tackling Covert Narcissism 102: The Final Exam You Never Wanted to Take. In this sarcastic “classroom lecture,” we break down the advanced strategies covert narcissists seem to master: weaponizing forgetfulness, controlling through chaos, hijacking holidays, rewriting history, and keeping their partners hooked with just enough crumbs of affection. It’s the textbook they all seem to have memorized — and once you recognize the syllabus, you’ll never look at their tactics the same way again. And don’t miss the “final exam” and mock graduation ceremony — because by the end of this episode, you’ll see exactly why you’re ready to drop the class, tear up the syllabus, and claim your freedom. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever noticed that covert narcissists all seem to follow the exact same script? It’s as if they sat in the same classroom, took the same notes, and memorized the same textbook. In this episode — Part One of a two-part series — we crack open that mysterious manual: Covert Narcissism 101. From the art of the half-apology, to gaslighting, silent treatments, and the polished public persona, you’ll hear the “lessons” every covert narcissist seems to master. Presented with humor and sarcasm, this episode walks through the “professor’s lecture” to covert narcissists-in-training, exposing the playbook they all seem to know by heart. Because when you live with a covert narcissist, it’s not a relationship — it’s an education you never signed up for. But once you see the syllabus, you’ll know exactly how to drop the class for good. Stay tuned for Part Two, where we’ll dive into the advanced curriculum: hijacking holidays, rewriting history, and keeping you hooked. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One of the most painful realities of living with a covert narcissist is the absence of reconciliation. Conflicts don’t get repaired. Apologies are either nonexistent or so hollow they echo in your chest. You’re left holding the pieces of a conflict, waiting for your partner to help put them back together—only to realize they’ve already walked away, acting like nothing happened. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores the gaping hole where reconciliation should exist in relationships with covert narcissists. Through real-life examples—like the silent treatment over a dishwasher, the missed soccer game, and the joke that “was just a joke”—Renee contrasts how repair unfolds in healthy relationships versus how it is systematically blocked in toxic ones. This episode shines a light on the crazy-making cycle survivors are trapped in: punished for speaking up, punished for staying silent, blamed for everything either way. Yet it also offers clarity and hope: the recognition that the absence of repair is not your fault, and healing is still possible. If you’ve been left alone in the wreckage, waiting for closure that never comes, this episode will help you name the gaping hole for what it is—and begin to build your own bridge to healing. DISCLAIMER:THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Divorcing a covert narcissist is not just about paperwork—it’s about survival. Today on the Covert Narcissism Podcast, I sit down with Bree Sullivan-Howell, a seasoned family law attorney with over two decades of experience and the author of Crush Your Divorce and Keep Your Faith and Crush Your Comeback. Bree brings both practical wisdom from the courtroom and heartfelt guidance for the personal and spiritual battles that survivors face. In this powerful conversation, Bree and I dive deep into: Why narcissists view their spouse and children as possessions—and what happens when you dare to break free. The reality of post-separation abuse and how it shows up in custody battles and court filings. How legal abuse works—and why narcissists weaponize the legal system to keep control. Practical steps for documenting emotional abuse in ways that hold weight in court. The critical importance of building a support team—attorney, therapist, coach, and trusted allies—so you’re not fighting this battle alone. How to become a safe haven for your children while navigating accusations of parental alienation. Why it’s essential to avoid clinical labels in court and instead focus on facts and behaviors. Bree also shares her faith-based perspective on reclaiming worth, hope, and freedom—reminding us that there is life after narcissism. If you’re in the thick of a high-conflict divorce, this episode is a roadmap of both strategy and encouragement. You’ll walk away with clarity on what to expect, how to prepare, and the confidence that you are not alone in this fight. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When you’re in a relationship with a covert narcissist, it can feel like living in Never Never Land—a place where no one grows up, nothing ever gets resolved, and you’re left carrying all the weight. At first, their charm feels like magic. They’re playful, adventurous, fun. But when real life shows up—accountability, conflict, emotional depth—they shut down, lash out, or retreat into blame. In this episode, we explore the Peter Pan World of covert narcissists, those who refuse to grow up and keep their partners stuck in emotional childhood right alongside them. Whether it’s Peter Pan or Paula Pan, and whether you are playing the role of Wendy or William, the result is the same: you’re cast into the role of caretaker, carrying the emotional, practical, and relational weight while your needs are silenced. We’ll unpack: The traits of a covert narcissist who avoids responsibility at all costs.  The emotional toll of being cast as Wendy—or William—in the relationship.  Why truth, repair, and closure vanish into “Never Never Land.”  How to recognize the cycle and start writing a new story outside of their fantasy world.  If you’ve ever felt like you’re living in Never Never Land, an emotional purgatory with someone who refuses to grow up, this episode will help you name it—and remind you that you don’t have to stay there. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?” Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you better just shut up. I’m better than you at manipulating things, turning things against you, controlling you. This is my territory. This in a marriage! So condescending. So hurtful. It’s no wonder that we quit talking to them. So many victims shut down and go grey rock and don’t even understand why. They don’t even know what that is, but do it out of survival. So what should those rights be? What do they look like in a healthy relationship? I re-wrote them: "You have the right to be you. Anything you say can and will be heard and valued. You have the right to speak your mind. If you do not know how to speak your mind, I will wait patiently and eagerly to hear your thoughts. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, are you open to speaking with me?" I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. •Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone? •Are you searching for people who get it? •Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do? •Are you running in circles in your mind? •Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them? •Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don’t have to know the terminology to know when something feels wrong.Long before I knew the term gaslighting, I knew the dizzying confusion of hearing “I never said that” about something I remembered clearly. Before I’d ever heard of circular conversations, I knew the frustration of talking in circles until I was the one apologizing. Before I could name moving goalposts, I knew the exhaustion of never being able to “get it right.” And before I understood walking on eggshells, I knew the tension of monitoring every word, every step, every breath. In this episode, I’m taking you through these tactics—not as cold definitions, but as lived experiences. You’ll hear personal stories, examples, and the emotional reality behind the phrases. And you’ll learn why this podcast isn’t about labeling someone as a covert narcissist—it’s about giving you the language to talk about what you’ve lived through and to reclaim your truth. Because you may not have had the words back then… but you knew the feeling. And now, you can name it. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

They’ve stopped yelling. They’re going to therapy. They’re more “attentive.” So why does it still feel like nothing’s changed? In this final episode of our 4-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella, we dive into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in narcissistic relationships: the collapse of guilt into shame—and how it sabotages real change. We explore: Why narcissistically inclined individuals can’t tolerate guilt How shame masquerades as self-awareness but blocks true repair The difference between behavior modification and emotional transformation Why surface-level change without integration eventually falls apart If you've ever felt confused by a partner who seems to be "trying"—but still leaves you feeling alone, invalidated, or unsafe—this episode will help you make sense of what’s really happening. This is not just a conversation about narcissism. It’s a conversation about what real healing looks like—and what happens when we mistake shame for growth. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When the Child You Protected Believes the NarcissistIt’s a betrayal that cuts deeper than most people can understand—when your adult child, the one you protected for years, turns on you and takes the side of the covert narcissist. If you’re walking through this devastating experience, you are not alone. I’m opening a small, supportive Zoom coaching group just for parents facing this heartbreak. This group is a safe place to process the grief, confusion, and isolation of being cast as the villain in a story you spent your life protecting them from. We’ll meet weekly to work through the pain, understand why this happens, and rebuild your peace, identity, and strength—together. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and empowered.Spots are limited. Learn more and reserve your place at www.covertnarcissism.com DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if that apology wasn’t about you at all?What if the moment that looked like remorse was really a carefully constructed move to restore a fractured image? In this powerful continuation of our series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella from The Narcissism Decoder podcast, we dive beneath the surface of “I’m sorry” to explore what’s really going on: the tangled relationship between guilt, shame, narcissism, and the illusion of empathy. We break down a real-life example of a man spiraling in frustration, seemingly finding redemption through kindness — but is it guilt, or is it shame-fueled self-preservation? This episode is essential for anyone trying to make sense of the mixed signals in narcissistic relationships, especially for those raising or supporting adult children who are still struggling with internalized shame from growing up in a narcissistic home. We explore: The difference between authentic guilt and toxic shame How narcissistic defenses hijack true connection Why timing matters in therapy and healing How to recognize image repair masquerading as empathy Why curiosity — not judgment — is the key to growth Whether you’ve lived with a covert narcissist, parented with one, or are watching your adult child unravel years of emotional confusion, this episode offers clarity and direction. 🎧 Subscribe so you don’t miss any of this series and future episodes that guide you back to your truth. DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Baiting is one of the most maddening—and most misunderstood—tactics used by covert narcissists. It’s the emotional equivalent of poking you with a stick just to watch you react, then sitting back and saying, “Wow… look how angry you are.” In this episode, we unpack exactly how covert narcissists bait you into emotional reactions—and why they benefit from pushing your buttons. From passive-aggressive digs and guilt trips to carefully crafted public humiliation, we break down the subtle ways they set you up to explode while they keep their mask perfectly intact. You’ll hear: Real-life examples of narcissistic baiting Why they want you to react (and what they gain from it) Sarcastic comebacks you’ll want to say—but probably shouldn’t Tools for staying grounded, using the Gray Rock method, and protecting your peace If you’ve ever walked away from a conversation thinking, “How did I just become the bad guy again?”—this episode is for you. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part two of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the guilt you carry… isn’t actually guilt at all? In Part Two of this powerful conversation, Renee and Dr. Anthony Mazzella dive into the subtle but life-changing difference between guilt and shame—and why confusing the two can keep you stuck in cycles of self-blame, anxiety, and emotional paralysis. You’ll learn: Why guilt is actually a sign of emotional health—and a driver of change How shame stunts growth while guilt motivates repair The difference between healthy guilt, toxic guilt, and emotional manipulation Why narcissists often fake guilt through apology—but never actually change How to recognize when you're feeling shame, not guilt, and what to do about it The role of empathy, boundaries, and emotional development in healing Why we must give our pain words—and why shame so often lives unnamed If you’ve ever said, “I feel so guilty…” but couldn’t put your finger on why—or felt weighed down by an apology you can’t stop making—this episode is for you. This is the emotional fork in the road: one path leads to healing. The other keeps you stuck in someone else’s story. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

With a covert narcissist, the outcome is always the same: you’re the problem. No matter how gently you speak, how carefully you tread, or how hard you try—somehow, it always comes back to you. That’s not bad communication. That’s emotional abuse wrapped in manipulation, guilt, and gaslighting. In this episode, we walk through a choose-your-own-adventure version of life with a covert narcissist—where every decision leads to blame, confusion, or emotional fallout. Whether it’s handling a parenting issue, grabbing lunch with a friend, or simply protecting your child’s mental health, you’re forced into impossible choices with no right answers. You’ll hear: Why life with a covert narcissist feels like a rigged game The emotional toll of always being the villain in their story The healthy option you never get—and why that’s the deepest grief How to begin choosing yourself even when every road feels unsafe If you’ve been stuck in a cycle of trying harder, only to end up blamed again—you need this episode. It’s not you. It was never you. And it’s time to stop carrying the weight of someone else’s dysfunction. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part one of a 4 part series on Guilt and Shame with guest, Dr. Anthony Mazzella, Psychotherapist & Host of The Narcissism Decoder Podcast What if the root of so much emotional pain, self-sabotage, and confusion isn’t who you are—but what you've carried? In this powerful first episode of a two-part series, Renee is joined by Dr. Anthony Mazzella to explore how shame, not arrogance or ego, often sits at the center of narcissistic traits—both in ourselves and in the people who have hurt us. Together, they unpack: What shame really is—and how it’s different from guilt How shame starts in early childhood through misattunement, rejection, or humiliation The invisible ways shame shapes identity, emotions, and behavior How narcissistic defenses like projection, withdrawal, and perfectionism are fueled by shame Why people-pleasing is often a mask for hidden shame How religious, cultural, or family systems can unknowingly create shame-based beliefs Shame isn’t just an emotion—it becomes a lens through which we see ourselves and the world. It’s not something we feel—it’s something we become. And unless we learn how to name it, it quietly dictates how we love, hide, lash out, or shut down. Whether you’ve lived with a covert narcissist or find yourself stuck in patterns you don’t fully understand, this episode will help you name the invisible wound behind it all—and take the first step toward healing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leaving a covert narcissist isn’t a single event—it’s a process.In this episode, we break down the myth of the dramatic midnight escape and explore the emotional, psychological, and logistical realities that make leaving so complex. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Why didn’t I leave sooner?” or been judged by others for how long it’s taken to get out, this conversation is for you. We’ll talk about the mental rewiring survivors must do, the fear of not being believed, the self-doubt that comes from years of gaslighting, and the real-life obstacles—like finances, kids, and safety—that make a clean break nearly impossible. This episode is a reminder: leaving doesn’t start with a suitcase—it starts with truth. And every quiet step you take toward reclaiming your mind, your freedom, and your self-worth… counts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.