Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Pile-ons, performative outrage, apology rituals, and public humiliation have become a blood sport over the past decade. What happened? Was it a moral panic? A byproduct of new communications technologies? Or a storm in a teacup - a well-intentioned overreach, exaggerated by anti-woke right-wingers? Clare Stephens is a feminist journalist who has spent years at the coalface of cancel culture. She spent years at Australia’s biggest independent women’s media outlet, Mamamia, copping heat from all sides and watching digital mobs turn ordinary mistakes into existential crises. Now she’s written a novel about it, The Worst Thing I’ve Ever Done, and created a podcast, The Pile-On. Clare and Josh unpack how cancel culture evolved, why it hit women differently from men, how shame works, and whether we’re beginning to find a healthier way of disagreeing online.  

What happens when the fight for women's equality collides with transgender rights? Is the anti-trans nastiness of the Elon MAGA-verse now winning? Or is it mere chaff in a new legal regime that privileges gender identity over feminism and gay rights? Where are we, exactly, in the gender wars? The question of who counts as a woman, once banal, is now a cultural lightning rod, shaping debates over prisons, sport, health care, and child rearing. Professor Robert Wintemute is one of the world’s leading human rights lawyers. A lifelong gay rights advocate and an early contributor to international transgender rights frameworks, he has since revised his view, arguing for a balance between trans inclusion and sex-based protections for women. He joins Josh to explore how we got here, what has changed, and what co-existence might look like.

You know you should meditate. But you don't have the time. Or you're no good at it. So you occasionally subscribe to a meditation app, you listen to podcast episodes about mindfulness, you nod along sagely about the importance of living in the Now, and you get back to your busy life. It doesn't stick. That's been Josh's story for decades. So when he heard that the founder of one of the world's leading centres for Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction has written a book criticising how meditation is marketed and packaged and practised, Josh's ears pricked up. Have meditation apps, Buddhist mantras, and “good vibes” influencers turned mindfulness into a self-help circus? Mo Edjlali is a former tech entrepreneur and the founder of Mindful Leader. His new book, Open MBSR: Reimagining the Future of Mindfulness, takes aim at elitism, pseudo-spirituality, and quick fixes. Mo joins Josh to troubleshoot what isn't working about modern meditation... and to help you grasp the secular, scientific basis for mastering your attention.

The Saudi stand-up controversy, the Jimmy Kimmel brouhaha, the clickification of live shows into viral video clips, the clash of podcasters like Marc Maron vs Joe Rogan over Trumpism... What is comedy for in this algorithmic era of culture wars? Wil Anderson is perhaps Australia's most successful stand-up comic. As well as his countless sold-out live shows, he hosts Gruen, a weekly panel show that has run for seventeen years. Wil and Josh riff on the state of comedy today and go deep into its craft, purpose and perils. How do you stay curious in a world allergic to doubt? What is humour when outrage travels faster than nuance? And is it wiser to just tune out of the chaos all together?

What if the fight for America’s soul wasn’t just political, but theological? A powerful movement inside Christian America believes it is on a divine mission to rescue the nation’s institutions; from education and media to business and government. Their chief cheerleader was Charlie Kirk, whose organisation, Turning Point USA, is now better positioned to reshape American life than when he was alive. In the same month as Kirk's assassination, by sheer coincidence, a book was released revealing the incredible backstory of Kirk's plan: The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy. Its author, former journalist and academic Dr Matthew Boedy, joins Josh to explain how a vision of two evangelists in the '70s became the blueprint for a cultural takeover, and how its most modern champion, Charlie Kirk, built a machine capable of turning online outrage into real-world political power.

Insane house prices are destroying the middle-class dream of home ownership. Or... are they? Is there actually a housing crisis? Or are most people, in fact, comfortably paying historically-unremarkable mortgage repayments for a desirable product? Economist Cameron Murray argues for this unpopular (you might even say “uncomfortable”) heterodox view. While many of his peers, like our recent guest Peter Tulip, argue that house prices are too high because of a lack of supply, Cameron reckons they’re actually… checks notes… just fine. Josh pushes on this theory, from interest rates to immigration to the politics of property, in a conversation that asks what really drives up the property price tag, what we’re really paying for... and why we just can’t stop talking about it.

He’s been called the most successful environmentalist in Australian history, and one of the most influential in the world. Former Senator Bob Brown co-founded the world’s first Green Party, in Tasmania in 1972. He led the Australian Greens in Parliament for decades and spearheaded a pivotal moment in global environmentalism, when he helped save the pristine Franklin River from being dammed. Senator Brown joined Josh in Sydney to talk about his life of protest and purpose, from heckling President George W. Bush to being openly gay when it was still illegal. They discuss the phoney choice of voting for major parties, the pickle the modern left finds itself in, and why love and wildness are the keys to saving the planet. His new book is Defiance: Stories from Nature and Its Defenders.

It’s the second anniversary of the October 7th attacks, and the Middle East is abuzz with a new plan that would see an independent Palestinian body administer the Gaza Strip. Could the Gaza War end up delivering real peace? What would it take, in Israel, Palestine and beyond, for the horrors of the past two years to give way to something better than the previous status quo? Yaakov Katz is the former editor-in-chief of The Jerusalem Post after devoting many years as the paper’s military correspondent. He was briefly senior adviser to Naftali Bennett (a former - and, many believe, likely future - Israeli prime minister) and Yaakov’s new book is While Israel Slept: How Hamas Surprised the Most Powerful Military in the Middle East. Yaakov and Josh reflect on the intelligence and military breakdowns that led to October 7th, the clash between Israeli policies and world opinion, the disillusionment of many Jews with the Gaza War, the trauma on both sides, and whether the future for Arabs and Jews might, in fact, be more hopeful than you’ve been led to believe.

Is it racist to worry that there are more immigrants in London than white English? Has the UK reached a tipping point in its conversation about Britain’s national identity? What’s going on? Race riots; migrant detention hotels ablaze; the prime minister condemning Elon Musk for using “dangerous and inflammatory” language at a nationalist protest with the far-right agitator Tommy Robinson. What happened to tea cups and crumpets, umbrellas and bowler hats - or even the “Cool Britannia” of the London Olympics? Dominic Frisby is an English comedian, musician, author, and philosophiser about social justice, diversity, finance, economics, and all things cultural. As a Brexiteer (and a return-to-the-gold-standard Bitcoiner), he rejected accusations that he was “far right” with his hit song “We’re All Far Rigt Now”. It broke the internet with tens of millions of views and lyrics like “Worse than Winston Churchill, worse than Enoch Powell, Klu Klux Clan and Jimmy Fallon, we’re all racist now. Oh, the countryside is racist. Dogs and cats are racist. Eating meat is racist... We’re all far right now.” Dominic sat down with Josh to wrestle with crime in London, immigration, race, conspiracy theories, freedom of speech, how to avoid a civil war, and why China is secretly stashing bazillions of dollars in gold.

It’s a fact. The way our governments raise and spend money benefits older, richer people, and disadvantages younger people who are trying to build wealth. If we’re going to hold society together - and keep liberal democracy robust - we need massive economic reform. But what does that mean?Allegra Spender is one of Australia’s most popular members of parliament. She belongs to no political party, although her centre-right group of independents, unofficially called the “Teals”, helped to sweep the conservative government from power in 2022. As a former corporate executive and management consultant, Spender recently joined a major economic reform roundtable to advise the government about radically increasing productivity. Spender emerged with controversial ideas about how to make life better for those starting out… and, in so doing, how to shore up democracy for everyone.

Trump. Gaza. Artificial Intelligence. Authoritarianism. Assassinations. Climate Chaos. Russia. Social media. The far right. Terrorism. Political division. How bad are things? More importantly: How would we know?Every generation believes things are falling apart. And at some point, they’ll be right. But the social psychologist Adam Mastroianni argues that we’re exhibiting a kind of doom paralysis right now.Even if things were as bad as they seem, they’re more likely to be solved - and you’re more likely to be constructive - if you assume they’re not.Mastroianni has a PhD from Harvard and studies how knowledge and ideas spread, and how people think about each other. His terrific Substack newsletter is Experimental History, and he joins Josh to help us understand why some people feel powerless, and some enthusiastic, about the challenges ahead.

What happens when the public's understanding of a global event is hijacked by online psuedo-experts? How should scientists express uncertainty when everyone's suspicious? Was Anthony Fauci the victim of a crazed conspiracy, or is there something fishy in the official origins of Covid-19? The inside story of how the Covid lab leak hypothesis went mainstream is just one of the tales which the science journalist Elizabeth Finkel investigates in her new book. Josh is still suspicious of the Wuhan lab so the two of them debate the wet market, gain of function research, China's secrecy, RFK's disinformation, Occam's razor, and how to do good science in a post-truth era. Finkel is the co-founder and former Editor-in-Chief of COSMOS magazine and a regular contributor to Science magazine. Her new book is Prove It: A Scientific Guide for the Post-Truth Era.

What holds liberal democracy together in an age of social media, tribal politics and rising violence? Josh has been trying to get Waleed Aly to submit to doing this show for years, and finally nailed him down. Do not miss this powerful episode. Waleed is a controversial superstar Down Under. He's the recipient of Australia's highest journalism award, a Walkley, and its highest television prize, a Gold Logie, for hosting The Project, a nightly network news panel show, for more than ten years. He's also a professor of politics working in the Monash University Global Terrorism Research Centre. A practising Muslim, he has a deep understanding of extremism on the left and right.  Don't miss Waleed and Josh, two very different intellects, in this frank, far-reaching conversation about extremism, free speech, and whether our civic fabric can withstand the pressures of technology and ideology.

What does "Zionism" mean after the destruction of Gaza? As Josh wrestles with this question himself, Charlotte Korchak is his Zionist guide today. She's a young, vibrant, American-born educator about Israel who joined Josh on her whirlwind trip to Sydney. The pair of them wrestle with justice, Jewishness, antisemitism and how Zionism should coexist with a Palestinian state.

America's pre-eminent conservative youth activist, Charlie Kirk, has been assassinated while speaking at a Utah college. Josh shares his thoughts... and reintroduces a classic monologue about America, violence and guns.