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Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

Author: boundaryless

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Boundaryless Conversations Podcast, an ongoing exploration on the future of Platforms & Ecosystems: in these conversations we make sense of what’s next.Here we explore new perspectives about how we organise at scale in a rapidly changing world.
14 Episodes
In this episode, Simone Cicero is joined by a special co-host and former guest on the podcast - Bill Fischer - Professor of Innovation Management at IMD Business School in Lausanne.  Together they pick the brain of nobody less than Alex Osterwalder, whose work continues to influence the way established companies do business innovation and how new ventures get started. The inventor of the Business Model Canvas, Value Proposition Canvas, and Business Portfolio Map together with Yves Pigneur, Alex just released a new book called The Invincible Company, whose ideas are mentioned throughout the conversation. Alex talks about why, in the furiously changing world of today, innovation portfolio management is a must, as well as transforming innovation into a pervasive process inside the organization: we also debate a lot on the several ways to do it.We also talk about the responsibility of companies to become great workplaces - being able to keep and reallocate talent across business units - and serve society beyond shareholder interests. Enjoy this jam full episode! Read our story on Medium to access our key insights and the interview transcript. Here are some important links from the conversation:> About Alex Osterwalder and his work:> Alexander Osterwalder  (Author), Yves Pigneur, Alan Smith, Frederic Etiemble, The Invincible Company:> Strategyzer: Other mentions and references:> Ritha McGrath, “Transient Advantage”, HBR, 06/2013:> Scott Anthony, “Breaking down the barriers to innovation”, HBR, 11/2019:> Ritha McGrath, Seeing around Corners, interview with Aperture:> All Things Marketplaces with Dan Hockenmaier, Casey Winters, and Lenny Rachitsky,> Village Global's Venture Stories: Companies mentioned: Amazon, Ping An, W.L. Gore, Logitech, Kodak, Haier Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at: for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio find his portfolio here: on May 11th 2020 
In this episode, we talk to Joost Minnaar, co-founder of the blog in 2015. Joost travels the world researching progressive organisations, blogs about the discoveries he makes and advises on workplace issues. Joost is the co-author of the book 'Corporate Rebels, Make Work More Fun' (2020), winner of the Thinkers50 Radar Award (2019) and a Doctoral Candidate at the Amsterdam Business Research Institute (VU University, Amsterdam). We also have the pleasure to collaborate with Joost and his colleagues in our work on the Haier Group model (check-up our upcoming webinar: In our conversation with Joost, we get quite practical about the three “fundamental problems” of organising at scale, as he frames it, and how organisations tackle them. We loved how this episode helped us nail down some key thoughts into discernable patterns, drawing on Joost's rich library of experiences from researching so many great organisations. Read our Medium publication to access our key insights and the interview transcript.Here are some important links from the conversation:Work by Joost and Corporate Rebels:> Corporate Rebels Blog:> Joost Minnaar on Twitter:>Joost Minnaar, Corporate Rebels, “Solving Organizational Complexity With Simplicity”:> Joost Minnaar, Corporate Rebels. “How To Organize A Large Company Without Middle Management”: > Pim de Morree, Corporate Rebels, “A Radical And Proven Approach To Self-Management” (Ner Group), mentions and references> Geoffrey West, Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies:> Geoffrey West profile> Principle of least action, > Deborah Frieze, From Scaling Up to Scaling Across: out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio find his portfolio here: on May 4th 2020
In this boundaryless conversation we speak with Indy Johar, architect and co-founder of Project 00 and most recently Dark Matter Labs (see his full bio here: is really a great thinker when it comes to going beyond “corner shop” size social transformation initiatives to explore the next generation of institutions -  living at the edge between public, open and private. We explore what he thinks will happen to organising, institution-building and human potential, as we move beyond an information age towards an era where building capabilities for antifragile institutions is key.Find out more about Indy and his work:>About Indy Johar, > Dark Matter Labs and its distributed team:> Dark Matter Labs collaboration with EIT Climate-KIC on Longtermism: Reorienting mindsets towards long-term thinking and acting: > Medium series of Longtermism,> “Letters from Amsterdam” on how they’re organised:> Indy Johar, Good work is the answer…: > Trees as Infrastructure, Mentions and References:> John Vervaeke, Ep. 1 - Awakening from the Meaning Crisis - Introduction> Danny Dorling, Slowdown (2020): The End of the Great Acceleration—and Why It's Good for the Planet, the Economy, and Our Lives: by liosound.Recorded on April 29th
In our conversation with Daniel, we talk about the interplays between technology and landscape, between the virtual and the analogue world, and we explore what kind of new experiments and institutions that may emerge — and what new constituencies will likely gain a key role in organising at scale — for the re-regionalisation of the economy, which is such an important step of society’s regeneration.How to find and support Daniel’s work:> Medium Blog: > Patreon: > Twitter: > LinkedIn, > Regeneration rising Youtube conversations: > Facebook groups:,, Mentions and references:> Daniel Wahl, Midwives of the Regeneration: On the fertile edges of the more beautiful world, > Daniel Wahl, Salutogenic Cities & Bioregional Regeneration (Part I of II), > Jung’s cognitive functions, > Joanna Macy, > Janine Benyus: “life creates conditions conducive to life”, > Ecolise: > Planetary Health Alliance, > Wendell Berry, The Unsettling of America: Culture and Agriculture, > Regenesis Group: > Bayo Akomolafe: “times are urgent so let’s slow down” > Rebel Wison, Sense-Making the Coronavirus outbreak, with Jamie Wheal, Diane Musho Hamilton: > Yuk Hui, Cosmotechnics as Cosmopolistics, > Thích Nhất Hạnh (interbeing):  Music by liosound.Recorded on April 06th 
This is a “checkpoint” episode where we talk to Lisa about what we’ve been discovering so far in the research for the Whitepaper and get her valuable take focusing on the role of incumbents in adapting to a fast-changing world. She talks about the emerging space between the “no more” and “not yet”. In this in-between space where most of the potential to re-invent organizing seems to lay, ecosystems appear to be a candidate driver of transformation for incumbents, although questions abound regarding their maturity.  > Follow Lisa Gansky on Twitter:> Subscribe to “Instigate this” curated by Lisa: references mentioned in the show:> Marc Andreesen, “It’s time to build”,> Slavoj Zizek on Coronavirus: "Things will not go back to normal",> Ichak Adizes, Organisational Life Cycle:> Reporting 3.0 “Maturation Matrix”: by liosound.Recorded on April 20th 
Stowe describes his calling as “the ecology of work and the anthropology of the future”. He’s founder of Work Futures, where he explores critical themes of the future of work, and top writer in Economics, Leadership and Futures on Medium. He also writes extensively about work technologies and serves as a Gigaom editor.In our conversation, we talk about how platforms contribute to changing the relationship between consumers and producers and how this — in turn — leads to re-shaping organizations, as firms optimize for a low transaction cost economy. We also talk about fairness and the importance of distributed governance to be transparent and reliable, allowing the players in an ecosystem to operate without constantly “covering their backs”.How to find Stowe Boyd and his work:> Medium:> Work Futures: and references:> Rent the Runway:> Amoeba Management | Management Philosophy | KYOCERA,> Stanley McChrystal, Chris Fussell, Tantum Collins, David Silverman (2015): Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World> Carlota Perez social and economic impact of technical change (including S curves):>Follow the work of Ben Evans and Ben Thompson:;> "In all chaos, there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order." - Carl Jung,> Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic and Cindy Gallop in HBR on female leadership> Participatory City: Music by liosound.Recorded on April 3rd 2020
In this Boundaryless Conversation, we talk with Bill Fischer, Professor of Innovation Management at IMD Business School in Lausanne. Bill co-founded and co-directs the IMD program on Driving Strategic Innovation, in cooperation with the Sloan School of Management at MIT and also authors a regular column for entitled “The Ideas Business”. Together with Bill, we’re exploring how incumbent organizations are likely to respond to pressures like plummeting transaction costs and the need to extend their organizational models across boundaries, digging into the cultural, organizational and leadership resistance that this transformation may encounter.  We talk quite a lot about Haier Group, a world-leading pioneer embracing a culture of entrepreneurship and ecosystem enablement. If you’re interested in learning more about this case, here are two opportunities for you:> A Webinar on the Haier Story hosted on 29th of April, offering an introductory discussion on Haier's Group’s organizational approach Rendanheyi. Sign up here or follow the live streaming on the Boundaryless YouTube channel. > An upcoming Haier Certified 3 Half Day online course that Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero will facilitate online on June 16-17-18 Here are some important links from the conversation:More about the Haier model: > William A. Fischer, Umberto Lago and Fang Liu: Reinventing Giants: > William A. Fische: How Haier gives insights into China’s radical transformation - From autarky to everywhere, > Simone’s take on the PDT blog: “An Entrepreneurial, Ecosystem Enabling Organization - What’s emerging from understanding Haier Group”,> Corporate Rebels: “RenDanHeYi: The Organizational Model Defining The Future Of Work?” Stuff mentioned in the conversation:> Charlie Fine, “Nail it, Scale it, Sail it”, > Oticon hearing aid company in Denmark,> Jos de Blok, founder of the nurse-led organisation Buurztorg:> Stora Enso, the Finish company with roots in the 14th century: > ABB,> John Hagel’s writings on Edge Perspectives, on ideas of scalable learning and the difference between the scalable economy of scalable efficiency,> Andy Boynton, Bill Fischer, William Bole, The Idea Hunter: How to Find the Best Ideas and Make them Happen,  Music by liosound.Recorded on March 30th 2020
In this with Michel Bauwens, we explore both the Epistemological and Political/Regulatory layers of the transition from the “old” to the “new” ways of organising society. We dig into concepts like “trans-national institutions” and explore the changes we could expect in both regional and international governance of the economy and society. Michel Bauwens is founder and director of the P2P Foundation, research director of (a platform for policy development aimed toward a society of the Commons) and a founding member of the Commons Strategies Group. Michel is a real lighthouse when it comes to collaborative, commons-based production models and works tirelessly since more than a decade in collaboration with a global group of researchers in the exploration of peer production, governance, and property.Here are some important links from the conversation:> Michel Bauwens, Corona and the Commons> Michel Bauwens and Jose Ramos, “The pulsation of the commons: The temporal context for the cosmo-local transition” (Draft), > Bologna regulation for the care and regeneration of the urban commons,> P2P Accounting for Planetary Survival - Commons Transition,> REPORTING 3.0,> Robert I. Moore (2000), The First European Revolution: 970-1215,> Bernard A. Lietaer, The Mystery of Money,> Material flow accounting,> Resources, events, agents (accounting model),,_events,_agents_(accounting_model)> David Ronfeldt, Tribes, Institutions, Markets and Networks,> Jamie Wheal in Rebel Wisdom: War on Sensemaking 3, The Infinite Game,> French land trust “Terre des Liens”,> Bernard Stiegler, The Neganthropocene, by liosound.Recorded on March 31st 2020
In this episode, we talk to Ana Andjelic, a Strategy Executive and Doctor of Sociology working on business strategy, marketing, and organizational transformation. Ana has worked with top global advertising agencies and has also worked on the brand-side as a chief marketing executive. In the context of the collaborative economy boom of early 2010, Ana wrote thoughtful reflections on the Guardian and other news outlets. She recently came back to our attention for her brand new newsletter “The Sociology of Business” where she explores the transformation of retail, modern brand building, and how new social and cultural patterns impact the business.We talk about the changing relationship between brands and consumers, what role culture plays in this transformation, and how technology can help - but never fully replace - human interaction. Our conversation also included in-depth reflections about how brands are reacting to the current context of COVID-19 and about the increasing need for empathy and social responsibility in these turbulent times.Read more on our Medium story here are some important links from the conversation:> Ana’s insightful newsletter “The Sociology of Business”,> Ana’s Twitter: @andjelicaaaBrands mentioned that are engaging closely with customer communities:> Glossier, an example of a platform for the community activity that is happening around the beauty products:,> Rapha for cycling communities: > Track smith running brand:> Outdoor voices: topics mentioned:> Benedict Anderson, Imagined Communities: Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism,> Some concepts from Japanese culture inspiring the west: Omotenashi, Kintsugi, Wabi-Sabi> Demna Gvasalia, Georgian fashion designer, currently the creative director of Balenciaga by liosound.Recorded on March 27th 2020
In this episode, we have a Boundaryless Conversation with John Robb, the owner and principal analyst for the monthly Global Guerrillas Report, that covers the intersection of War, Politics, and Technology.  Its goal is to provide people with the frameworks needed to make sense of our relentlessly chaotic world. In other words, John helps people think clearly at a time when that kind of help is in short supply.  In our conversation with John, we explore how the rapid power shifts we're witnessing towards open source, and self-organizing networks are going to change the way we organize society and the economy.We touched upon the fact that the emergent future of organizing may not disrupt or obsolete the existing markets, but rather coexist, and that there's no way we can get away with ignoring the question concerning technology as society literally "becomes a technological artefact" as John said.Read more on our Medium story hereHere are some important links from the conversation: > John’s patreon page> David Ronfeld, Tribes, Institutions, Markets and Networks,> John Arquilla, David Ronfeldt (eds): Networks and Netwars, The Future of Terror, Crime, and Militancy,> Marshall McLuhan, whose ideas were frequently mentioned in the conversation:> The Cynefin Framework for Simple, Complicated, Complex and Chaotic domains,> Examples of games mentioned that allow modifications to be developed in the kind of open-source community: Fallout and Skyrim:;> Code Academy,> Cameo, a new platform for getting personalised messages from celebrities,> The company where John in 1996 wrote the report “personal broadcast networks”> How to Run a City Like Amazon and Other Fables, a multi-author future fiction imagining cities being run by different companies Music by liosound.Recorded on March 26th 2020
In this episode, we have a boundaryless conversation with Tomas Diez, a Venezuelan Urbanist specialized in digital fabrication and its implications on the future of cities and society. He is the co-founder and director of Fab Lab Barcelona at the Institute for Advanced Architecture of Catalonia (IAAC) and is a founding partner of the Fab City Global Initiative. In our conversation with Tomas, we explore the democratization of the production of goods, mainly through technological progress and open knowledge sharing, and how this might affect the evolution of platform-enabled ecosystem driven production. We ask Tomas - through the lens of this transformation - what new subjectivities and constituents are empowered to organize in ways that are different, whether synergistic or integrated, with current globalization and digitalization trends. Of course, we cannot avoid touching on the changing landscape of risk and policy-making, as we connect with Tomas in the midst of the global pandemic. We also talk about the future of education and the need to reconsider Western-centric values and ways of knowing.Read more on our Medium story are some important links from the conversation:> Fab City: Locally Productive, Globally Connected,> Wendell Berry (1977): The Unsettling of America: Culture and Agriculture,> Peter Noak (2010): Sex, Bombs and Burgers,> Raj Patel, Jason W. Moore (2017): A History of the World in Seven Cheap Things: A Guide to Capitalism, Nature, and the Future of the Planet, Zachary Stein on education in a changing technology landscape, Music by liosound.Recorded on March 17th 2020
In this episode, we have a boundaryless conversation with James Currier one of Silicon Valley’s foremost experts in growth and network effects. James is a four-time CEO of VC backed companies and a pioneer of user-generated models, viral marketing, A/B testing, crowdsourcing, and myriad of other growth techniques that have since been adopted by nearly all technology companies. In 2015, James co-founded NFX, a $150M early-stage venture capital firm focused on network effect businesses along with Pete Flint and Gigi Levy Weiss. In this conversation, we explore the real and so far unseen boundaries of the transition towards an economy more heavily based on marketplaces and market-networks, and how this transformation both shapes and is shaped by the major shifts and challenges that are currently emerging in the global society, including environmental, social, political, regulatory. We talk about the need for strong and charismatic leaders to steward these shifts, as well as the need to re-train people to gain the right competencies to deal with an increasingly digital, networked economy and transforming industries. Read more on our Medium story are some important links from the conversation:> Ben Evans’ presentation “Standing on the Shoulders of Giants” during the World Economic Forum in January 2020, > Simone Cicero: “Why the Next Paradigm Shift may not be Technological”, > Ben Thompson, The End of the Beginning,> Niall Ferguson (2017), The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook,> Libra cryptocurrency,> Lambda school,> Incredible health,>, Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at Music by liosound.Recorded on March 18th 2020
In this episode, we have a boundaryless conversation with Arthur Brock, chief architect of Holochain. Holochain is an alternative to blockchain for running fully Peer-to-Peer distributed applications and is shaping the social dynamics of our emerging post-industrial economy. In the show we widely cover the concept of Unenclosable carriers and how new technologies that are more inherently contextual and agent centred - instead of universal and global consensus-based - may open up new possibilities for coordination and organising, enabling governance through feedback loops. Read more on our Medium story are some important links from the conversation:> Arthur Brock, The Future of Governance is not Governments> Arthur Brock, Unenclosable Carriers and the Future of Communication,> Holochain:> Holo Host:> Affordance: out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at Music by liosound.Recorded on March 10th 2020
This episode frames the Boundaryless Conversation podcast: Simone Cicero, the original creator of the Platform Design Toolkit, and co-host and team-mate Stina Heikkilä present the main research questions that guide this exploration. Boundaryless Conversations podcast is about exploring the future of large scale organising by leveraging on technology, network effects and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous. Human organisations are today pressed by the need to reinvent themselves, in ways that are profoundly unclear and, at the same time exciting for the promises they bring.This podcast is brought to you by Boundaryless, the company behind Platform Design Toolkit an open methodology to design strategies that mobilize ecosystems through scalable efficiencies and scalable learning.Here are some important links mentioned in the conversation.The Platform Design Toolkit - Boundaryless website: The white paper 2020 launch - Simone Cicero, New Foundations of Platform-Ecosystem Thinking Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio find his portfolio here:
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