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Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
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Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz

Author: Kevin Goetz

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Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life by sharing intimate conversations with some of the most prominent filmmakers in Hollywood on a broad range of topics including filmmaking, the business of movies, film history, breaking into the business, moviegoing in the rise of streaming, and audience test screening experiences.
15 Episodes
Kevin is joined by highly accomplished film and television producer and former studio executive, Jonathan Glickman. Jonathan Glickman, Producer and Former Studio ExecutiveWith over two decades of experience in the entertainment industry, he has established himself as a creative force and a visionary producer with a keen eye for identifying and developing successful projects. As president of the MGM Motion Picture Group, Glickman guided a bankrupt company into a thriving studio. During his tenure, he oversaw production on Skyfall and Spectre, the two highest-grossing installments of the James Bond franchise, as well as No Time to Die, Daniel Craig’s final outing in the series. Other highlights of his tenure include overseeing the production of the Rocky spinoff Creed and Creed 2 and the 2019 animated hit The Addams Family. After his tenure at MGM, Glickman founded Panoramic Media. His productions include Creed 3 and the Golden Globe-nominated tv series Wednesday, which recently became the second most-watched show in Netflix’s history.Important lessons from growing up in a political family (3:42)Jonathan grew up in Kansas, where his father was a congressman, and he learned an important political lesson that carried over to his career in entertainment, the public is always right. Kevin and Jonathan discuss the intersection of entertainment and politics. “All that matters are beginnings and endings and in the end, the beginning doesn't matter”(10:19)Kevin and Jonathan discuss the importance of a good ending and leaving the audience satisfied. Jonathan emphasized how everything should lead up to that ending in order to have people buzzing about the movie as they leave the theater.The elevator pitch (12:47)Jonathan discusses how he landed his first internship at Caravan Pictures by cornering Joe Roth, the head of Caravan, in an elevator and asking him for the internship. The pair discuss Jonathan’s rise at Caravan, how, as an intern, he pitched the idea for a Jerky Boys movie followed by While You Were Sleeping. Four years later, Jonathan became head of the studio.The Creed Bake-Off (31:53)The pair discuss the film Creed and how screening two different endings led to the decision to have Adonis Creed lose at the end of the first film. Jonathan relates that the film was shot with two endings which were shown to test audiences. Both endings tested well, but one tested higher. He also shares a story of what happened when Sylvester Stallone joined the Creed focus group.Marketing and the streaming platforms (41:38)With the success of Wednesday, Kevin and Jonathan turn the discussion to streaming platforms and marketing. Wednesday as the main character (45:43)Glickman talks about The Addams Family and why he wanted to focus on Wednesday as the main character for the Netflix series.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Jonathan GlickmanProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Jonathan's upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineA
Kevin is joined by Nancy Kirhoffer, a highly experienced post-production supervisor, to delve into the intricacies of successfully bringing movies to completion.Nancy Kirhoffer, Post-Production SupervisorToday we have the pleasure of speaking with Nancy Kirhoffer, a distinguished post-production specialist with over 150 films to her name. With a remarkable career spanning indie films to blockbuster hits, Nancy has gained a wealth of knowledge and experience in the art of bringing movies to completion. In this episode, Nancy shares her insights on the intricacies of post-production, the challenges and rewards of audience test screenings, and the secrets to delivering a successful final product. What is the role of a post-production supervisor/producer? (3:04)Kevin and Nancy discuss the role of a post-production producer and the difference between a post-production producer and a post-production supervisor and how her role has changed over time.How Nancy got her start by working with one of her idols (7:30)Nancy recounts getting her start in Hollywood, crashing film classes, and how she went from a PA to working as an assistant with one of her idols, Mary Lambert.Guiding first-time filmmakers through the screening process (16:07)Nancy has done a lot of work with independent filmmakers and first-time directors. Kevin asks Nancy what it is like walking a first-time director through the screening process. Nancy discusses the importance of getting out of the editing room and into a theater to see how the movie plays on the big screen, and in front of an audience.Screening surprises and Neighbors 2 (20:35)Kevin asks Nancy about the biggest surprise she has seen at an audience test screening. Nancy talks about the screening for Neighbors 2 and the changes that had to be made to improve the testing scores.Walking Olivia Wilde through her first test screening (22:54)Nancy shares a story about the first audience screening for the movie Booksmart and walking first-time director Olivia Wilde through the screening process.Working with Screen Engine/ASI and what sets them apart (28:19)Nancy talks about working with Kevin’s company, Screen Engine/ASI, and how the moderators at Screen Engine have a real and genuine love of movies. The pair discuss some of the intricacies of audience screen testing, and how the moderator’s enthusiasm for movies can add authenticity to the screening process.The most important questions asked at a screen test (32:18)Kevin asks Nancy about moderator questions during a focus group. Kevin and Nancy both share the questions that they find to be the most useful to the filmmakers. Advice for anyone wanting to go into the field of post-production (37:21)Nancy discusses the role of post-production, and the skill set required to be a good post-production supervisor. She talks about money and time and being able to manage both while keeping a project on track.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Nancy KirhofferProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Nancy Kirhoffer:LinkedIn: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by Amy Baer, veteran producer and studio executive, to discuss her multi-faceted Hollywood career.Amy Baer, Producer & Studio ExecutiveToday we have the pleasure of speaking with Amy Baer, a trailblazer in the entertainment industry. With a diverse background that includes work at major studios, heading an independent development fund, and producing, Amy's expertise is unparalleled. Her impressive track record speaks for itself, with films under her supervision and/or production grossing a staggering $2 billion worldwide. But that's not all, Amy is also a champion for women in the entertainment industry, serving as the board president of Women in Film and the head of Landline Pictures.The audience is all that matters (3:00)Kevin kicks off the podcast by delving into a topic that holds great significance to both him and Amy - the importance of knowing your audience. Amy talks about creating content, any content, and how important it is to know who you are creating that content for.Heading up CBS Films (6:02)Kevin asks Amy what it was like running CBS Films for four years and having the authority to green-light movies. Amy talks about her experience running the studio in a tumultuous time in the entertainment business during an actors’ strike, a writers’ strike, and an economic downturn. The pair discuss what a tremendous responsibility it is to make the decision to green-light a film and the business factors that go into making that decision.Landline Pictures and the importance of knowing your audience (17:22)Sticking with the theme of knowing an audience, Amy discusses her new production studio, Landline Pictures, where the focus is making movies for older audiences. Kevin talks about the importance of research, and Amy shares the amount of research that went into deciding to make films for this specific audience. Growing up with a famous father and making it on her own (23:22)Kevin asks Amy what it was like growing up with Happy Days’ Tom Bosley as a father. Amy shares childhood memories of visiting the set of Happy Days and hanging out with her father’s work friends including Ron Howard. The pair discuss nepotism in Hollywood and how Amy made it on her own. Advocating and fighting for women in the entertainment industry (35:55)With her extensive filmmaking experience, and as board president of Women in Film, Amy has a unique perspective on being a working woman in the entertainment industry. Amy discusses her early female mentors and successfully maintaining a work-life balance as a Hollywood executive. Amy stresses the importance of communication and community with other women as something that is needed in the industry.What’s next for Amy Baer (43:39)Kevin asks Amy what she is currently working on, and what she is excited about. Amy discusses two new projects at Landline Pictures including Back Nine, a new film starring Renée Zellweger.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Amy BaerProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Amy Baer:LinkedIn: Film/Landline Pictures: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:
Kevin is joined by Academy Award-nominated editor David Rosenbloom to discuss his experience in the editing room and how audience research affects the final cut.David Rosenbloom, EditorDavid Rosenbloom has had an incredible career, working on critically acclaimed and award-winning films like The Insider, Rudy, The Black Mass, All Good Things, and the recently released Plane. In this podcast, we'll delve into David's background, his process for editing, and his experience with audience screen testing. We'll also hear some behind-the-scenes stories and insights that only a seasoned film editor like David can provide. Whether you're a film buff, an aspiring editor, or just someone who appreciates the art of filmmaking, this podcast is a must-listen!An important and close relationship (2:52)Kevin opens the podcast by discussing the close, important relationship between the film's editor and the person who is running the test screening. Kevin calls it the closest relationship and David agrees as they discuss the value of the information gained during an audience test screening.Good editing vs. bad editing (16:48)David discusses the differences between good editing and bad editing, which  David calls the hardest thing to judge.. He compares editing to the music in a film and knowing when to make a cut or when to let a shot go on longer. How an audience reaction led to a big change (20:26)Kevin asks David about the biggest change that he has made to a film based on the audience's reaction at a test screening. David brings up the film Out of the Furnace, where the lead initially dies at the end of the movie. The two discuss how the audience's reaction led to David recutting the film to save the character. Early mentors and TV work on Hill Street Blues (20:41)David and Kevin discuss David’s early years as an editor on television shows. The two talk about the evolution of editing technology and how a 24-year-old David was given the opportunity to direct an episode of Hill Street Blues.The alchemy of moviemaking (32:24)David talks about the moviemaking process and the important relationship between the film’s editor and the director. They discuss David’s experience in editing sports movies like the audience-favorite Rudy.Applause for editing (37:45)Together, David and Kevin explore what makes great editing and how it can elevate a film to new heights. David shares his personal experience of watching All That Jazz for the first time and the moment he realized that editing could inspire applause. Pace is a 4-letter word (45:18)David and Kevin talk about the intricacies of editing and why David hates the word “pace” in audience feedback. Kevin talks about the film’s length being a director’s issue while the pace is more of an editor’s issue. Audience engagement is discussed as well as when a film is too fast, too slow, or just right.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: David RosenbloomProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about David Rosenbloom:IMDB: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by veteran producer Monica Levinson to discuss producing award-winning blockbusters and giving back.Monica Levinson, ProducerMonica Levinson is a renowned film and television producer known for her exceptional range and versatility in the industry. From the critically-acclaimed drama Trial of the Chicago 7 to the blockbuster comedy Borat, Levinson's productions have received both popular and critical acclaim. She is a highly respected member of the film community, as a member of the Producers Branch of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the Producers Guild of America, and the Directors Guild of America. Additionally, Levinson is a dedicated advocate for diversity and inclusivity in the film industry and has established a training program for underrepresented groups on the films she produces, and regularly mentors young and emerging filmmakers.Working with legendary producers (5:14)Monica talks about her early years in the film industry, where she got her start working with legendary filmmakers like Alan Pakula, Sidney Lumet, and Michael Mann. She cites her work with Alan Pakula as a defining moment in her career, as it was then that she fell in love with the entire process of film production, from pre-production to post-production.Early work on Zoolander with Ben Stiller (7:13)Monica recounts her experiences working on the set of Zoolander and the challenges of producing the film within budget constraints. She credits her work on Zoolander  with Ben Stiller as a major stepping stone in her career and believes it led to her being recommended to Sacha Baron Cohen and eventually producing the successful film Borat.A raucous test screening of Borat (12:24)Kevin and Monica talk about an early test screening of Borat and the audience reaction to “that scene.”Working with Sacha Baron Cohen and spending the night in jail (14:25)Levinson shares what it was like working with Sacha Baron Cohen, and giving him the freedom to let the creative process flow on Borat. She recounts the story of being arrested while filming Borat.Turning Thanksgiving Dinner into a documentary (24:41)Kevin asks Monica to talk about her recent documentary, The Stories of Us, an intimate portrayal of her family, her Jewish roots, and her upbringing.Test screening her new project with Bill Burr (31:57)Kevin asks Monica to share a time that an audience test screening led to a significant change in one of her films. Monica talks about her new project with Bill Burr, Old Dads, and how the audience response led to a reshoot.Giving back (40:13)Kevin and Monica delve into the topic of diversity and inclusivity in the industry, with a focus on Monica's efforts to advocate for and mentor underrepresented groups. Monica shares her advice for young and emerging filmmakers and highlights some of the projects she is currently working on that aim to empower and promote women within the industry. Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Monica LevinsonProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Monica Levinson:Instagram: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenE
Kevin is joined by the critically acclaimed Director/Writer/Producer George Tillman Jr. to discuss making movies from the heart.George Tillman Jr., Director, Producer, WriterWith a career spanning over two decades, George Tillman Jr. has brought a unique voice and perspective to the film industry, tackling a wide range of genres and themes in his work. He is best known for his films Soul Food, Men of Honor, and The Hate U Give, as well as for producing the successful Barbershop franchise.A tale of two test screenings (3:28)George Tillman Jr. reminisces about his disastrous first test screening in Beverly Hills and how that experience made him fearful of future audience screenings. He contrasts this with the audience screening for Soul Foodand how that screening became one of the highlights of his life.Early influences (10:49)Tillman discusses the two films that influenced him as a teenager: Taxi Driver and Cooley High. Cooley High was the first film Tillman saw with African Americans in the lead roles, and it showed real friendships and relationships. Taxi Driver stood out to Tillman for its camera work and the way it controlled the viewer's experience.Working with De Niro (20:35)Kevin asks George about his greatest influences and mentors. George talks about working with Robert De Niro on Men of Honor and how De Niro guided him in post-production, even advising Tillman to cut some of De Niro’s own performance for the sake of the film.The $150,000 movie success (24:18)Tillman talks about raising money for his first film, going mainly to family and friends in Chicago, and taking that movie to Hollywood and selling it to Savoy Pictures for $1,000,000. Unfortunately, Savoy Pictures went out of business, and that first film was lost, but it helped Tillman make connections that led to green lighting Soul Food.Tell the stories you want to tell (31:17)Kevin asks George what he has learned on his journey as a writer, producer, and director. George talks about making movies from the heart and about telling the stories that you want to tell.Feeling the audience's reaction (43:05)Kevin asks George to talk about audience test screenings and if the audience response was responsible for big changes in any of his films. George goes into what it feels like to participate in a test screening and sit among the audience. He talks about how he made changes to a movie based on what he felt around him at the audience test screening. They then go into positive test screenings as a validation of the filmmaker’s instincts.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: George Tillman Jr.Producer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about George Tillman Jr.:Instagram: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by Academy Award-winning film editor, William Goldenberg. William Goldenberg, EditorWilliam (Billy) Goldenberg is an award-winning editor who has worked on over 20 films and television shows. His numerous awards include the BAFTA and the Academy Award for Best Film Editing for Argo. Goldenberg also received Oscar nominations for his editing work on Seabiscuit, The Insider, Zero Dark Thirty, and The Imitation Game. He has worked closely with award-winning directors Michael Mann, Ben Affleck, and Kathryn Bigelow.And the Oscar goes to… (2:25)Billy talks about what it was like being nominated for the Academy Award for Editing for two films in the same year, Zero Dark Thirty and Argo. Goldenberg recounts how it was the most nerve-wracking thing that has ever happened to him. He talks about winning for Argo and his acceptance speech, focusing on the microphone to blur out the stars in the front row and how he has not been able to re-watch the speech.Learning to take criticism (8:19)Kevin asks Billy to talk about his mentor, Michael Kahn. Billy tells the story about how he took over for Kahn on the film Alive and the process of editing and re-editing on film. Kahn taught Billy a valuable lesson on how to take criticism and react positively.Working with directors (16:16)Billy and Kevin discuss what it takes to be a successful editor in Hollywood, and they delve into the process of what it is like to be in the editing room with such award-winning directors as Michael Mann and Ben Affleck. Goldenberg relates a story about going back and forth with Michael Mann while working on the film Ali.Length vs. Pace (19:30)Kevin brings up a vital concept in film editing, pace. The pair discuss the difference between the length of a film and the pace of the film and how it relates to how the audience reacts to a movie. Billy talks about being in the editing room with Ben Affleck for Gone Baby Gone and working on the pace and length of the film.Film school and early work (31:22)Billy talks about switching from medical school to film school and how he wanted to be an editor from early on. He talks about his first job as a PA and one of his first jobs as an assistant editor on Steven Spielberg’s film Always. How Bradley Cooper changed Argo (40:10)Kevin asks Billy to talk about his most memorable audience testing experience. Billy recounts multiple test screenings for Argo and how feedback from Bradley Cooper led to a significant change in the film that resulted in fantastic testing results.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: William GoldenbergProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about William Goldenberg:IMDB: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by veteran producer and Hollywood creative executive, Todd Garner.Todd Garner, ProducerTodd Garner, formerly the Disney co-head of production, emerged from one of the most turbulent periods in that studio's history and transitioned from executive to producer. He co-founded Revolution Studios and then started his own production company, Broken Road Productions. He has developed, overseen, executive produced, or produced more than 170 films for more than a dozen studios and streaming services, including 25 films & television shows under his banner.The science and art of audience testing (4:51)Todd and Kevin discuss some of the intricacies of audience testing. Kevin talks about what he calls the science and art of audience testing and moving the audience from simply liking a film to developing a love connection with it. Todd and Kevin both agree that it’s about more than just the numbers.Todd’s journey (8:21)Todd recounts his journey from doing sketch comedy in high school to studying art and economics in college to a job at a major bank, and how that led to working at the Arsenio Hall Show. He talks about how his combined business & art background provided the fertile ground for a career as a producer and creative executive.Words of advice from Jerry Bruckheimer (21:57)Kevin states how much he admires how Todd has both the creative and business sense to be such a prolific producer. Todd mentions one of the best pieces of advice he ever received from his mentor, Jerry Bruckheimer, who said “I just make movies for me.” Todd talks about how that has guided his decision making, and how he strives to be emotionally connected to his movies.The business of movies (28:07)Kevin and Todd discuss how movies are greenlit in the studio system and the economics of marketing and PR when dealing with a theatrical release versus a release on a streaming service. The pair discuss why comedies, particularly romantic comedies, are easier to produce on a streaming service. What follows is an insider’s perspective on the economic advantage the streaming services have over the Hollywood studios.A wide range of mentors (36:44)Kevin asks Todd about his mentors, and who he looks up to in the industry. Todd talks about filmmakers who influenced him like Howard Hawks and Mel Brooks. He then talks about mentors who he worked with like Jeffrey Katzenberg, Jerry Bruckheimer, and Adam Sandler.Memorable audience screenings (45:16)Kevin asks Todd about his most memorable audience screenings from the 500 or so they have worked on together. Todd talks about Kevin’s gift of analyzing what is going on behind the audience research numbers and improving the movie through the audience analysis. Todd relates a hilarious story from the Con Air test screening.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Todd GarnerProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Todd Garner’s upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenE
Kevin is joined by one of the most prolific and successful film producers of all time, Neal Moritz.Neal Moritz, ProducerNeal Moritz has produced over 70 films that have grossed over $11 billion worldwide. Neal founded the production company Original Film and is responsible for projects such as Sonic the Hedgehog, The Escape Room, 21 Jump Street, Passengers, XXX, as well as the TV series Prison Break and The Boys. He started with movies like I Know What You Did Last Summer and Cruel Intentions and went on to produce the Fast and the Furious franchise.The only opinion that really counts (1:53)Kevin and Neal jump right into the importance of audience research as Kevin asks Neal which test screenings stand out for him. Neal discusses the process and how it could be the best night of his life, an okay night, or a terrible night as he awaits the results. They go on to discuss major changes that were made to Escape Room, and how the audience reacted to the highly publicized redrawing of the Sonic the Hedgehog character.The most important question asked in an audience screening (8:21)Neal to identifies the single most important question asked in an audience test screening. This leads to an interesting discussion about the types of questions that are asked, how to sift through the noise, & how the findings can lead to important changes in the films.Screening Fast and the Furious 7 after the tragic passing of a star (13:59)Neal recalls his most memorable screening. Neal describes the decision to continue filming Fast and the Furious 7 after Paul Walker’s tragic passing. Neal shares the fear and nervousness he felt while finishing the movie. Kevin & Neal discuss the iconic final scene and how the audience’s emotional reaction at the test screening proved that Moritz and the studio made the right decision. Neal’s favorite genre (17:29)Neal talks about the challenges he enjoys when producing action movies. He discusses 21 Jump Street and how the combined use of action and comedy makes this his favorite type of movie to produce.How a canvas backpack led to a Hollywood career (29:43)Neal tells the story of how he got started in Hollywood. He talks about his childhood of growing up in a family-owned movie theater, then becoming an entrepreneur selling canvas backpacks that he saw in China, and his decision to sell his company to become a producer.The future of the film industry (33:59)Kevin and Neal discuss the moviegoing experience in the face of the rise of streaming companies like Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu. Neal talks about the value of seeing a movie in the theater, and how he decides which of his projects should be released theatrically versus streaming. The conversation turns to the economics of moviemaking and the value of having a proven producer attached to a film project.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Neal MoritzProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Neal Moritz’s upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenE
Kevin is joined by visionary producer and executive Roxanne Taylor and her husband, writer, director, and producer, Deon Taylor. Together, Roxanne and Deon have produced and directed Black and Blue, Fatale, Meet the Blacks, Meet the Blacks 2, The Intruder, Supremacy, and several others.Roxanne Avent Taylor, ProducerDeon Taylor, Writer, Director, Producer Roxanne and Deon co-founded the film company Hidden Empire Film Group, a multidimensional independent film company that has produced a strong slate of movies and TV shows. Through Hidden Empire Film Group, Roxanne and Deon find their projects, find the financing for the projects, create the marketing campaigns, and then distribute their own films.Underrepresentation in Hollywood (4:08)Roxanne and Deon discuss how they got their start in Hollywood. They both loved movies and wanted to make the kind of movies they wanted to see. One of their goals was to give opportunities to underrepresented communities in Hollywood, namely the African American community. Kevin Goetz touches on a project that he is bringing to historically black colleges and universities that aims to expose students in these communities to the business of market research in film and television.The Cheat Code and making movies for a diverse audience(14:26)Deon talks about audience testing and how he has come to believe it is like a cheat code for making a better movie. The discussion shifts to “the culture” and how the African American community was underserved by Hollywood in the past. The trio discusses how cultural shifts and trends cross racial barriers and how this affects filmmaking and audience testing in the wake of the MeToo Movement and the Black Lives Matter Movement.The importance of allies (25:16)Roxanne and Deon discuss the vision of Hidden Empire Film Group and their goal of making movies for everyone. They talk about the importance of allies and how striving to work with everyone allows them to create more opportunities for underrepresented people in Hollywood and makes good business sense. The highs and lows of audience screen testing (37:49)Deon tells the story of the audience test screening for The Intruder and touches on the range of emotions that filmmakers go through in the audience testing process. The trio discusses other audience testing experiences, including a film that tested great and one that didn’t test well.Sage Advice (42:52)Kevin asks Roxanne to offer a piece of sage advice to a young person who wants to get their start in film. Roxanne discusses the benefits of education and film school, but also how education differs from the real-life experience on a movie set.Host: Kevin GoetzGuests: Roxanne and Deon TaylorProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Roxanne and Deon's upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined 3-time Academy Award nominated & Emmy Award winning producer, Jason Blum in this re-released interview from earlier this year.  Jason is the founder & CEO of Blumhouse Productions, regarded as the driving force in the horror movie renaissance, and has produced over 150 movies and television series. He has been recognized by TIME magazine’s 100 list of the world’s most influential people and has appeared several times on Vanity Fair’s “New Establishment List.”Jason Blum, ProducerJason Blum has produced iconic franchises like Halloween, Paranormal Activity, Insidious, Happy Death Day, Sinister, among several others, and received Academy Award nominations for producing Whiplash, Get Out, and BlacKkKlansman. Jason is also a two-time Primetime Emmy Award-winning and a three-time Peabody Award-winning producer. More recently, Jason produced The Black Phone, and Halloween Ends.Scary Test Scores from Ouija and Halloween (5:17)Jason and Kevin discuss the Blumhouse movies with the biggest jump in scores following the audience test-screening process. They talk about Ouija and the original Halloween, and the massive jumps in scores after testing and reshooting.Scores vs. Feel and the testing issues with an entirely unique movie like Get Out (14:54)How does an audience respond to a movie that is unlike something they have never seen before? Kevin and Jason talk about audience testing for Get Out, and how the marketing, gut feeling, & test scores come into play with an unclassifiable film.How streaming has changed audience research and the movie-going experience (20:47)The global pandemic saw the rise of streaming services, and Kevin talks about the changes in audience research due to this rise. A fascinating discussion follows of what types of movies do well theatrically vs. streaming. Audience questions (32:13)Kevin fields questions from the audience including how much faith to put in the numbers that an audience gives verses the audience reaction, how many movie screenings before a film is released, and some insider stories from Kevin’s book, Audienceology, of how the audience research process led to massive DNA changes in some of the most well-known and loved movies in Hollywood.Testing an early version of Beauty and the Beast (38:02)Switching gears, Jason asks Kevin about audience testing and animated movies. Kevin recounts a story from Audienceology about audience testing for an early version of Beauty and the Beast. Join Kevin and his guest, producer Jason Blum, and learn how they successfully used audience screen testing to craft some of the most iconic horror franchises of all time. Listen in on a fascinating discussion of the future of theatrical movies in the streaming era, and enjoy some insider stories. Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Jason BlumProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Jason's upcoming projects:Website: blumhouse.comFacebook: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by  the powerhouse filmmaking team of producer Kelly McCormick and director David Leitch to discuss, among other things, what makes their successful partnership work on megahits such as Deadpool 2, Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw, Atomic Blonde, and Bullet Train.Kelly McCormick, ProducerKelly produced Atomic Blonde and executive produced Deadpool 2 and Hobbs & Shaw, among countless other films and television projects prior to establishing the production company 87North with David. Among her previous credits, Kelly served as Executive Vice President of Production and Acquisitions at Sierra Affinity where she packaged and produced Academy Award®-winning and nominated films such as Hell or High Water, Whiplash, Nightcrawler, and Manchester by The Sea.David Leitch, Producer and DirectorDavid directed the global hits Bullet Train, Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw, Deadpool 2, and Atomic Blonde. He made his directorial debut co-directing John Wick, which he also produced, and subsequently served as executive producer on the sequels. David is also co-owner and co-founder of the award-winning, critically acclaimed stunt design company 87eleven Action Design with Chad Stahelski. Twists and turns in Atomic Blonde (4:51)The trio discuss some of the twists in the film Atomic Blonde, and how testing led to the film being changed to ensure that the audience bought in to some of the twists that Atomic Blonde took.From stuntman to director (14:15)David talks about how he got his start in the movies, going from a 3rd-grade teacher with a martial arts studio to directing some of the biggest action sequences of all time.Deadpool 2 and the Bake Off (18:08)Kevin talks about the screening process of Deadpool 2 with Kelly, who produced the film, and David, who directed it. They talk about how they both became involved with the movie, the mixture of irreverent comedy and heart that makes the Deadpool franchise successful, and the excellent screen test results of the film. They also delve into the “bake-off” concept in audience research where filmmakers can test different things with similar audiences.Making Bullet Train at the height of the pandemic (25:00)With Kelly as producer, and David as director, Bullet Train was made during the height of the pandemic. Listen to inside stories of what it was like working with the team to make this $100+ million blockbuster. Coming Soon (35:25)What’s next for Kelly and David? Here’s a taste -- action and Santa in the same movie.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Kelly McCormick and David LeitchProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Kelly and David’s upcoming projects:Website:, more information about Kevin Goetz:Website:  www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by Andy Marx,  an award-winning writer and photographer, to share stories about old Hollywood, writing for Variety, and tales from growing up with Hollywood royalty.Andy Marx is a writer, producer, composer, musician, and an extraordinary artist & photographer. He is the grandson of famed television and film actor Groucho Marx of the Marx Brothers, and songwriter Gus Kahn whose hits include It Had to be You, Dream a Little Dream, and Makin’ Whoopee. Andy's  work has appeared in Variety, The Los Angeles Times, and Entertainment Weekly, among others. He is also the co-founder of the comedy website, Hollywood & Swine, and author of the book, Royalties, a multi-generational, historical romance is based on the lives of his grandfathers, Groucho Marx and  Gus Kahn. The start of audience testing and research from the perspective of a young journalist (3:46)Andy shares his fascination with audience testing, and the fascination with early box office returns in the 1980s among journalists and publicists. Andy and Kevin also touch on the earliest type of audience screening where stars like Chaplin, Buster Keaton, and Harold Lloyd would take comedic sequences to Hollywood Boulevard to test them with audiences.Growing up with Groucho (7:52)Andy discusses his childhood and his relationship with his grandfather, Groucho Marx. He shares inside stories about how he became, with a nudge from Jack Nicholson, the head archivist for Groucho’s hit show, You Bet Your Life.Audience test screening in early Hollywood (15:47)The Marx Brothers’ A Night at the Opera is one of the Marx Brothers’ all-time classic comedies. Andy tells an amazing story about how it had a terrible initial screening, but due to some brilliant behind the scenes maneuvering and a quick change of venue, the screening was saved. Andy and Kevin discuss the timeless lesson of the importance of screening with the right audience.Creative vision and the testing process (22:42)Kevin and Andy discuss how the Director’s creative vision can either hurt or help the audience testing process. They delve into the difference between modern-day movie blockbuster projects and how those differ from the old Hollywood studio system.Hollywood and Swine (36:36)Andy and his writing partner, Will McArdle, were responsible for the anonymous website, Hollywood and Swine, where they lampooned Hollywood with articles like Starbucks Bans Screenwriters From All 19,435 Locations Worldwide; Writers Guild of America Vows to Fight the Decision. Andy shares stories from writing parody, and how he doesn’t think he could get away with it today. It Had to be You (41:54)Andy sings and plays ukulele as he takes us out with one of his Grandfather Gus Kahn’s hits, It Had to be You.Join Kevin and his guest, Andy Marx, and learn about the history of Hollywood and audience research, and enjoy some insider stories on Kevin's podcast, Don't Kill the Messenger!Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Andy MarxProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Andy's upcoming projects:Website: Book: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website:  www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by the incredibly talented screenwriter, film producer, television producer, television director, film director, and former actor Dean Devlin to discuss filmmaking and his experiences with audience test screenings.Dean DevlinDean Devlin has produced and co-written some of the most successful feature films of all time -- Independence Day, Stargate, and Godzilla -- which collectively grossed more than 1.4 billion dollars worldwide. In May of 2001, he founded Electric Entertainment, where he serves as chairman and CEO.  Changing the DNA of the film, Stargate (2:00)Kevin and Dean jump right into the test screening for Stargate, and how they decided on a DNA change with that movie based on audience feedback that raised the testing numbers dramatically. They discuss the major changes to the film, which Kevin calls DNA changes, including film length, dialogue changes, pacing, and a pivotal change to the movie’s villain. They also discuss behind the scenes negotiations, and the push and pull with the studio to successfully make the changes they wanted. Dean Devlin partners with Roland Emmerich (6:08)Dean talks about his partnership with Roland Emmerich, and the way they started their working relationship, a relationship that would lead to some of the highest grossing movies of all time. Dean was acting in Roland’s first American film, when Dean asked to re-write some of his lines. Learn how this encounter led to their 12-year partnership.On not testing Godzilla (16:26)Dean was not able to test screen Godzilla, and he talks about what it was like watching that first screening at the back of the theater. Dean could see exactly what was wrong with the movie and talks about his frustration with knowing what was wrong, how to fix it, but not being able to do it. This was the last time Dean ever released something without testing it first.Independence Day (21:32)Dean and Kevin discuss how everything just fell into place with the movie Independence Day. From the audience cheers at the initial screen tests, to how the film changed Dean, to how a small change to a pivotal final scene brought the test score from a 92 to a 98.Testing and directing Geostorm (30:32)There are unique challenges that come from directing a film, and Dean goes into how the testing process differs from the perspective of a director versus that of a producer. Kevin and Dean discuss the heartache of knowing what needs to be changed in a movie based on the audience tests, but not being able to make those changes.Join Kevin and his guest, producer and director Dean Devlin, and learn how they successfully used audience screen testing to craft some of the highest grossing movies of all time, and enjoy some insider stories on Kevin's podcast, Don't Kill the Messenger!Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Dean DevlinProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Dean's upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website:  www.KevinGoetz360.comAudienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website:
Kevin is joined by Oscar winning movie producer Graham King to discuss film producing, his experiences with audience test screenings,  making and testing Bohemian Rhapsody, and more. Graham King, ProducerGraham King is a four time Academy Award nominated producer, winning the award for The Departed.  He's been involved in the making of more than 50 movies, producing films including Tomb Raider, Gangs of New York, Argo, The Town, Blood Diamond, Hugo, and Bohemian Rhapsody.Getting his start in producing films (1:49) Graham shares how he gravitated towards the storytelling in films and how to capture the telling of these stories through the medium of film.  He has been especially drawn to true life stories and biopics.  Graham looks for characters that are larger than life and finds a way to humanize them on the screen.His first audience screening experience (3:48)Graham speaks of the influence of his earlier films working with Martin Scorsese and how he has shared his love of previewing movies.  It is critical to get the response from those who have no hidden agenda.  The audience is there to like the movies.  Graham believes that if you really want the truth you have to show it to those not in the industry with no personal agenda.Audience impact on his films (6:44)Bohemian Rhapsody was one of the top scoring films in preview and Graham discusses the decision to bring it to the big screen instead of streaming.  He shares the import of capturing the experience that Freddy Mercury provided of bringing joy to the masses in his concerts and how it was important to convey that sense when experiencing the film.About those who say screenings impede the process (13:01)Graham believes that screenings and audience input are absolutely crucial in producing the most successful films.  He believes that it is an irresponsible view to see audience input as an impediment.  Audience input has a significant impact on the film.  The screening process goes beyond just the cards and scores but rather the audience brings an energy when watching the film that is most useful when viewing.  Movie stories (29:15)Graham shares stories about the making of several of his films including The Town, Jersey Boys and his new film about the Bee Gees.  He discusses his responsibility in telling their stories in a way that pays respect and provides enjoyment.  These interesting tidbits give the listener little known aspects of the movie making process.Join Kevin and his guest, film producer Graham King and learn how they crack the code for playability success using audience screen testing and enjoy some insider stories on Kevin's podcast, Don't Kill the Messenger!Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Graham King OBEProducer:  Kari CampanoFor more information about Graham's upcoming projects:Website: more information about Kevin Goetz:Website: Audienceology Book:, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360 Linked In @Kevin GoetzScreen Engine/ASI Website: 
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