038: Do we really need a conductor?
Description
Here at Stand Partner HQ, we get this question a lot! And that should tell you something without even knowing the answer. Nobody asks what a pilot does, or if we really need one for our airplanes. But the conductor’s role isn’t nearly so obvious, to our audiences and even, at times, to us!
Do we really need someone up front “driving the train”? Do a conductor’s responsibilities begin and end with a downbeat and a final cutoff?
Key points
- Akiko’s forthcoming appearance on the Every Little Thing podcast
- Audience fixation on the conductor as the focal point of an orchestra
- The job of the conductor during rehearsal and performance
- Giving instruction vs. providing a “guiding current”
- Examples of time wasting, directionless rehearsal
- Examples of showing appreciation for the work of the players; giving credit where it’s due
- Petty retaliation: talking in rehearsals and other signs of discontent
- Setting aside grudges for the concert and putting the music ahead of everything else
- Do musicians always agree who’s a great conductor?
- How to balance exerting control and letting go of it
- The “dreaded hand”: play quieter!
- Components of a perfect conductor; designing the Robo-conductor!
Links
Transcript
EPISODE 38
[EPISODE]
[00:00:01 ] NC: Hi and welcome back to Stand Partners for Life. I’m Nathan Cole.
[00:00:04 ] AT: I am Akiko Tarumoto.
[00:00:18 ] NC: And today we are talking about conductors and not just because we see a conductor all the time at work, see many conductors. There’s actually a special reason, that’s because you are going to be a featured guest on another podcast.
[00:00:33 ] AT: Yeah.
[00:00:33 ] NC: I couldn’t be more proud. It’s like a spinoff of Stand Partners. It’s great. We got a call from the show Every Little Thing, which is a Gimlet Media show. They answer or try to answer questions that you can’t find out just by Googling. Their recent example was how to police sketch artists really. Can they really come up with a picture that’s so close to the person you’re thinking of and they went through it. It was really fascinating, and all the episodes come from listener questions. It’s actually a great idea for this show.
[00:01:13 ] AT: It’s true. Should steal that.
[00:01:16 ] NC: I know. I think I might. They actually play the call – If someone calls in and leaves a message, it’s very 90s. You have to leave a message on the machine. In this case, someone was calling up to say if, “I were ever the victim of a crime, I would be the worst witness. There was no way the police could ever pick up the person because I wouldn’t be able to describe to a sketch artist anybody’s face. I’m the worst and I really don’t believe the sketch artist could help me. Do they really work?”
They actually found a sketch artist. So that was the expert on the call and they had this person describe his best friend, I believe it was.
[00:01:58 ] AT: Aha. And it worked?
[00:01:59 ] NC: And it worked.
[00:02:00 ] AT: That’s just too much pressure. I can’t produce on this level tomorrow.
[00:02:04 ] NC: In this episode, they have someone asking about conductors and about all kinds of things that go on in orchestra rehearsals and concerts. So that is going to be you. Now, you do have to share the episode with a conductor in addition to the caller.
[00:02:23 ] AT: Yes. Not in real-time, but yeah.
[00:02:24 ] NC: Right. Since you might – I don’t know. You might feel like you couldn’t say everything you wanted to about a conductor. Who knows? We thought this might be – They might not give you all the airtime. You might –
[00:02:37 ] AT: Did you say this conductor? Right. I mean, I hope that I won’t be carrying the entire episode. It would be funny if I described my ideal conductor and just synthesize this person to see if they’re really an effective leader.
[00:02:51 ] NC: That’s true.
[00:02:52 ] AT: That’d be pretty awesome. That would be like the equivalent of the sketch artist, but I won’t be doing that. I’ll just be pontificating.
[00:03:00 ] NC: Look for that episode. The show again is Every Little Thing. It’s a great show. You should subscribe anyway. Yeah, listen for Akiko’s episode coming out hopefully in the next month.
Today is our chance before that happens to expand on this idea of conductors. Yeah, I mean speaking of people calling in or at least approaching us after concerts, what’s one of the first things they always want to talk about.
[00:03:27 ] AT: A conductor. Yeah. We really like this conductor. I hear that a lot, which is great. I mean, I don’t want to hear we really hated that conductor.
[00:03:36 ] NC: That’s true. Because then we might feel that we didn’t somehow do our job in the concert.
[00:03:41 ] AT: Right. Sure.
[00:03:41 ] NC: If all you came away with was that you hated the conductor. We’re supposed to be the ones coming away with that. Not the audience.
[00:03:48 ] AT: And we do.
[00:03:50 ] NC: Why do you think that is? I mean, besides maybe the obvious reason, the conductor is up on a podium waving arms around and their name is really big in the program. I mean, why are audience members fixated on the conductor? Is that right? I mean, is the conductor’s job that big that they should be so fixated?
[00:04:10 ] AT: Yeah. I mean, definitely, I can see how someone’s attention is automatically drawn there. I mean, where else are they going to look? I mean, there’s a lot of moving parts and we’re all supposedly tuned in to this one person. So that makes sense that the audience would feel that they’re getting something of our experience by watching this person.
[00:04:33 ] NC: Yeah. Ideally, right. I mean, we’re focused on the conductors so that should also draw their attention to the conductor. Well, I mean that’s a great place to start, is what the role of a conductor is or should be at least according to us. After that we’re going to get into maybe what their job shouldn’t be things conductors do and don’t do that we dislike. Is that the longest section of the show?
[00:05:03 ] AT: Yeah. I mean, it’s something I’ve certainly thought a lot about.
[00:05:06 ] NC: All right. We’ll try to keep that constructive though. After that, I know we’re going to get into perhaps what happens when those conductors sort of spend their time and their energy doing the things that aren’t productive. What are some of the ways that orchestras, not necessarily us or our orchestra, sort of retaliate?
[00:05:26 ] AT: I think things we’ve definitely seen, we’ve witnessed.
[00:05:29 ] NC: Yeah.
[00:05:30 ] AT: Yeah. I warn you, they’re not all super mature or maybe none of them are. But –
[00:05:34 ] NC: All right. But human nature, musician nature nonetheless.
[00:05:38 ] AT: It is a glimpse into what it’s like, the dynamic of being subordinate to this person.
[00:05:46 ] NC: Right. Then finishing up I think with some examples of what we really love about great conductors and great conducting.
[00:05:54 ] AT: Yeah, and on a positive note.
[00:05:56 ] NC: Yeah.
[00:05:56 ] AT: Sound like a bunch of complainers.
[00:05:58 ] NC: Yeah. Okay. We’ve got the role, conductor’s role as it should be. Then maybe conductor’s role as it shouldn’t or needn’t be. Ways that orchestras respond to those bad uses of time and energy.
[00:06:13 ] AT: Sound like Jeopardy categories.
[00:06:15 ] NC: Yeah. We’d need pithier names, and we’re at least Sean Connery here to do the categories. Great! Well, we’ll start it up. What should a conductor be doing up there? Why should the audience as well as the musicians focus on the conductor in the best of circumstances?
[00:06:34 ] AT: I mean, obviously the very basic thing, they tell us when to play, how fast to play, how loud or soft to play. Shows how many beats are in every measure.
[00:06:44 ] NC: That’s sure. As you said, on the most basic level, that includes – Yeah, starting and stopping, tempos, dynamics.
[00:06:53 ] AT: Yes, that’s the very basics, right?
[00:06:56 ] NC: These are things that would matter in the performance. There are things they need to do in the rehearsal. They have jobs in the rehearsal as well, right?
[00:07:03 ] AT: Sure. I think one of the things that I’m always surprised is that not very many conductors are great at addressing and fixing problems efficiently and it always seems to stun me when somebody is good at that stuff. It really seems remarkable. It seems sort of basic.
[00:07:24 ] NC: Right. I mean, deciding when to start and stop in rehearsal as well and what to say and how to say it.
[00:07:30 ] AT: Yeah, and who to say it to.
[00:07:32 ] NC: Yeah.
[00:07:33 ] AT: It’s a big one.
[00:07:33 ] NC: I have a feeling we’ll get to some details in the next section.
[00:07:38 ] AT: Yeah. It’s a big deal. This stuff sounds like it should just be sort of standard, but surpr
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