The first podcast in our rolling symposium is a conversation with the Pou Tikanga of the Deep South Challenge Ruia Aperahama, and our Climate Change Knowledge Broker Kate Turner, exploring the symposium’s name.

Within mātauranga Māori, the concept of “utu” suggests that if something is taken, permission must first be requested. Once taken, something of equal or greater value must be returned. Further obligations are in this way generated, and a relationship becomes reciprocal. In the pūrākau of Papa and Rangi, for choosing to separate his parents, Tāne repays them over and again, with his heart forever to Papa and his feet always striving for Rangi – an expression of ever growing love. With this image, we see Tāne as upside down. But perhaps it is we who are the wrong way up? Are we capable of making decisions that return to Papa and Rangi value greater than what we have taken?

Up or Down? With Ruia Aperahama, Alexandra Keeble and Māni Dunlop.