In this mind-bending conversation, I welcome back researcher Nathaniel Gillis for his fourth appearance to dive deeper into necromantics, sigil magic, and the evolving nature of the paranormal. Nathaniel shares cases of subdermal sigils, ultraviolet-only markings, and reports of symbols moving from beneath the skin to the surface—suggesting rituals and phenomena that blur the lines between demonology, ufology, and hauntings. We explore how entities may hijack perception, trigger the observer effect, and project constructs—appearing as ghosts, aliens, or other archetypes tailored to the witness—raising profound questions about consciousness, possession, and whether we’re living inside a construct or simulation.

We also examine alleged “apports,” shifting isotopic signatures, CE5 encounters that follow people home, and historical threads from Kenneth Grant, Austin Osman Spare, Paracelsus, and Dr. Karla Turner. Nathaniel proposes a liminal species working alongside embodied practitioners, self-replication via ritual, and a phenomenon that seeks to be seen—potentially co-creating with us through our attention. This episode challenges assumptions across paranormal fields and asks a core question: are we observing the phenomenon, or is it using us to observe—and thus become—what we expect?

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