Part 2: Patricia and Christian continue their conversation with economist, author, and founder of Modern Money Lab Professor Professor Steven Hail about the well-intentioned (taxing the rich is good!) but counter-productive call for a wealth tax to "fund" life-saving support for vulnerable people (needlessly waiting for the rich to cough up while people suffer and die is bad!) and, of course - those beautiful tariffs.

 

Full conversation here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/126627127

 

 

Please help sustain this podcast! 

Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast

 

 

All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643

 

All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767

 

LIVE EVENTS!

Modern Money Lab UK weekend seminars in London featuring Dr Steven Hail: 

• June 21st & 22nd (White City) - Rethinking Capitalism
• June 28th & 29th (Finsbury Park) - Money, Government and the Public Interest - Beyond The Deficit Myth

Details and tickets: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/

 

JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form

 

MMT: THE MOVIE!

• "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money
• Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/
• To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/

 

STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY!

• Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/

 

 

Relevant to this episode:

• Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245
• Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2):  https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
• "Federal Debt and Modern Money" by Steven Hail & David Joy: https://www.global-isp.org/wp-content/uploads/PN-121.pdf
• "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715
• "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy
• Lecture: "The CFA Franc and Monetary Sovereignty in Africa", by Dr Ndongo Samba Sylla: https://youtu.be/W3P14tpE70U?si=0Dv7dukz_bnQbIbN 
• "Who Is Ron Vara? The Truth Behind Peter Navarro's Fake Expert" by Brendon Beebe: https://brendonbeebe.substack.com/p/who-is-ron-vara-the-truth-behind
• For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683
• For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 

 

For an intro to MMT:

• Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318

 

Quick MMT reads:

• Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/
• Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095
• Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/

 

 

For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf

 

 

Episodes on monetary operations: 

• Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318
• Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887
• Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 
• Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183
• Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 

 

For more on Quantitative Easing:

• Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023
• Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: <a h