Fiona Cross is an arachnologist whose research focuses on spider cognition.

In this episode, we talk about how Fiona went from being terrified of spiders to studying them, the incredible strategies that the portia spider uses to hunt other spiders, and how Fiona and her colleagues tested whether portia can count.

Produced by Ryan Pemberton

Editing help from Alex Tighe and Cheyne Anderson

Fact checking by Caitlin Cherryh

Artwork by Evie Hilliar